Tiling bathroom

SpencerJC wrote: »

Thanks, yeah, sounds about right. I know much of it will come down to the tiles for sure. I suppose it could be timeconsuming to get the old ones removed etc so another factor. This is what I have in mind.

Screenshot 2020-05-25 at 19.21.37.png

Actually should have mentioned I stripped out the old tiles so the price didn’t include that but did include new plasterboard

salmocab wrote: »

I paid 4500 for an en-suite half the size but got all new toilet sink shower and shower door included that’s to buy everything and have it installed. I’d say you’ll be looking at the guts of 3.5k for supply and fit of tiling a bathroom that size. Obviously a lot depends on the price of the tiles.

Was that in Dublin?

I really don't understand where these prices are coming from. Take out the cost of tiles for a minute and explain how long these tiles are taking. Had a tile come down laid all the tiles in the bathroom (wall to wall), splash back in kitchen and tiles on a portion of wall. He was there for less than a day then came back the next day to put groute up. Total max 2 days and he got €400 for the labour.

How would it even come close to 1k let alone 3k is a mystery to me. Redoing a whole bathroom and changing the suite is different but people seem to be saying the same amount just for tiling.

I did my bathroom bar tiling myself and it was very little work taking me as an inexperienced person 3 days. Quoted 7k for the work which I would expect a trained person to do in 2 days. Always estimate what they are charging by hours to see how much you are paying for labour. Given overheads at all that it shouldn't be over €350 a day imho. That is a good rate of pay .

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I really don't understand where these prices are coming from. Take out the cost of tiles for a minute and explain how long these tiles are taking. Had a tile come down laid all the tiles in the bathroom (wall to wall), splash back in kitchen and tiles on a portion of wall. He was there for less than a day then came back the next day to put groute up. Total max 2 days and he got €400 for the labour.

How would it even come close to 1k let alone 3k is a mystery to me. Redoing a whole bathroom and changing the suite is different but people seem to be saying the same amount just for tiling.

I did my bathroom bar tiling myself and it was very little work taking me as an inexperienced person 3 days. Quoted 7k for the work which I would expect a trained person to do in 2 days. Always estimate what they are charging by hours to see how much you are paying for labour. Given overheads at all that it shouldn't be over €350 a day imho. That is a good rate of pay .

In my experience, it's not easy to find a decent tiler. You can pay any arsehole €400 to tile your bathroom, but you'll probably spend another couple of thousand ripping them off the walls, buying new materials and getting it done properly. You might get lucky, or you might not. But working in an enclosed space where people regularly empty their bowels, bladder and stomach contents is reason enough to raise the price.

I used to work in the sale of tiles and as a general builder, which included bathroom remodelling and tiling. I've heard of and seen many expensive to fix botched jobs. One of those cost the owner more than 10k in damages when she hired a cowboy who took her money, half finished the job, broke a pipe in the bathroom and caused flood damage to three apartments below. That's an extreme example, but it happens. I remodelled one small bathroom a few years back.

...Ghost... wrote: »

In my experience, it's not easy to find a decent tiler. You can pay any arsehole €400 to tile your bathroom, but you'll probably spend another couple of thousand ripping them off the walls, buying new materials and getting it done properly. You might get lucky, or you might not. But working in an enclosed space where people regularly empty their bowels, bladder and stomach contents is reason enough to raise the price.

I used to work in the sale of tiles and as a general builder, which included bathroom remodelling and tiling. I've heard of and seen many expensive to fix botched jobs. One of those cost the owner more than 10k in damages when she hired a cowboy who took her money, half finished the job, broke a pipe in the bathroom and caused flood damage to three apartments below. That's an extreme example, but it happens. I remodelled one small bathroom a few years back.

How would it cost a couple of grand to remove tiles? I did it myself in a couple of hours.

Can you explain how much an hour you expect to to pay a tiler? I am not in the bathroom when they are tiling and I would think a plumber deals with more stuff than a tiler.

I have remodelled about 10 bathrooms in property I own in the last 15 years. Been quoted so many riddiculious prices over the years for bathrooms and kitchens it is obviously part of the industry. They always try to over charge on any materials involved too.

There is no logical reason bathrooms are so expensive to install. I learnt how to do it with a laptop and very little on tools as it is so simple these days. No bending copper pipes or soldering the connectors just push together. You can also deal with most plumbing issues afterwards. Highly recommend it as most people have time to do it now. Most people can do with holding on to the money. Paying a plumber as if he is a consultant doctor is crazy

salmocab wrote: »

Think you should read what you quoted again

Why? What are you claiming I got wrong?

salmocab wrote: »

The poster didn’t say it would cost a couple of grand to remove tiles

They claimed removing and materials would.still doesn't make any sense. Want to explain how much a tiler gets paid an hour for those costs to add up? It would depend on tile price but again makes nosense.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They claimed removing and materials would.still doesn't make any sense.

They didn’t claim that either.

...Ghost... wrote: »

Either there would be a whole lot of tiles to remove, or someone is willing to pay way above the odds. Another possibility would be for restoration where the tiles being removed were of historical interest.

But in the context of this thread, it wouldn't cost that much to remove tiles and I didn't suggest it would either. I was referring to having to redo the whole thing.



It would be very easy to undermine the job of a plumber and say he/she only needs to push-fit a couple of pipes and tighten a couple of taps, but there is a bit more to it than that. Likewise, it's not fair to compare the skill of a professional tiler to an amateur who has thrown up a couple of bathrooms.

When you and I decide to tile our own property, we don't have the overheads of running a business and paying insurance. We don't consider the unforeseen costs that might arise from working in the house that Jack built. And we don't appreciate the speed and finesse a pro will bring to the job.




If one doesn't appreciate the skill involved, or the service being offered, then everything will look like a con has priced it. Keep in mind that there are people out there who couldn't change a light bulb, let alone remodel a bathroom. My BIL is one of them. Literally could not change a light bulb until recently and he is 30. If you have the ability to do a good job yourself, then it is understandable why you might not see the value in the service of a pro.



Except there is logic in the price. Tilers need to earn a decent wage after paying their expenses. The insurance alone costs thousands and I assure you that the guy charging a couple hundred euro is not paying. If he has an accident in your home, guess who is paying.

If you have the time and ability to do the job yourself, that is great. I personally love the feeling when I have done a nice bit of DIY and improved my home. It's cheaper than a cowboy.

As an aside, I have had terrible advice and wrong diagnosis from consultant doctors in the past. Some are little more than white coats with a secretary taking hundreds of euros for a 10 minute consultation, beholden to the insurance companies they sometimes represent. I would be much quicker to trust a tiler quoting me a reasonable price than a consultant giving me an accurate diagnosis for anything but the most common ailments.

I don't know why you are so hostile but taking everything into consideration I do not see why a plumber or a tiler should get above €35 per hour. Insurance for a doctor is much more expensive and the skill level is nowhere near comparable on how much they should be paid similarly.

I have dealt with many a trades person and I understand emergency rates but many try to charge similar rates for scheduled work.

The tiler I use is a professional with insurance and I found him while he was tiling a bathroom for me. He was paid a third of what I was charged. He was disgusted himself.

When a plumber charges 20% more for the bathroom suite it is simply a scam. I actually have to replace a pump for a water system. It costs an extra €300 to buy in ireland and a plumber I rang said it was a days work. So €700+ €350+ vat. The pump online is €400 and push connectors. Will take me 20 mins to do. That is a rip off not just by the plumber.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't know why you are so hostile but taking everything into consideration I do not see why a plumber or a tiler should get above €35 per hour. Insurance for a doctor is much more expensive and the skill level is nowhere near comparable on how much they should be paid similarly.

I have dealt with many a trades person and I understand emergency rates but many try to charge similar rates for scheduled work.

The tiler I use is a professional with insurance and I found him while he was tiling a bathroom for me. He was paid a third of what I was charged. He was disgusted himself.

When a plumber charges 20% more for the bathroom suite it is simply a scam. I actually have to replace a pump for a water system. It costs an extra €300 to buy in ireland and a plumber I rang said it was a days work. So €700+ €350+ vat. The pump online is €400 and push connectors. Will take me 20 mins to do. That is a rip off not just by the plumber.

I assure you that the hostility is in the reading and not in the writing.

I have a genuine plumber story which might help you understand why one might also choose to pay a professional instead of the cheap foreign guy from Romania who did a great job bleeding your neighbours radiators.

I worked in a tile and bathroom showroom. We had a list of recommended installers we trusted to install our products. We sold 1 bar pumps which were not far from a grand. A rip off and I honestly couldn't bring myself to recommend them to customers. I told customers about pumps they could order online. Our trusted installers loved them because the fittings were so easy to work with and the price to the customer was a fraction of the cost, for three times the bar rating.

Anyway, a customer of mine complained that her pump exploded and flooded the ground floor of the house causing thousands of euros of damage to a newly installed kitchen, ceiling, wall and the entire ground floor. She had purchased tiles for her kitchen and bathroom from us, but everything else was purchased elsewhere. She wanted to know what I was going to do about it, because the pump recommendation came from me.

In truth, I only recommended pumps if someone was buying sanitary ware from us. She only purchased tiles, so I knew something was not right. The manager agreed to go take a look the next day to assess the situation.

In the meantime, one our recommended plumbers gave us the heads-up. The woman had sought a quote from him weeks earlier and he told her about the pump I often recommended. She wanted separate quotes for the tiling of both areas and the plumbing of the bathroom and pump installation. I don't recall all the details, but the short end is that she hired his team for the tiles and some Lithuanian lad for the plumbing. He saw the guy pull up in a banger and proceed to "hack away at the job". He insisted that the "plumber" stay out of the bathroom until the tiling was done because he didn't want to be held responsible for problems after the fact. The customer had phoned him and claimed that "your pump exploded and ruined my house". It seemed she wanted to paint blame on everyone and see where it stuck.

My manager took a look at the house. It was destroyed. Looked at the pump. All the connections were loose and the outlet pipe had popped off and allowed "a tsunami" to flood the house over several hours before someone got home and switched the water off. The Lithuanian guy was unreachable after the first phone call. Our recommended installer had no responsibility as his company only did the tiles. We washed our hands of it, having only sold the tiles and the insurance company refused to pay out based on faulty installation from an uninsured trades person.

I've heard of many similar stories over the years and the common thread to the stories is someone trying to save a few quid and using a cowboy, or going the DIY route without using common sense and proper equipment.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I find it hostile when a person suggests things that I never said.

Never suggested hiring some hack but paying attention to the charges.

I understand, but finding hostility is different than giving it. I was not being hostile and was not directing all my statements at you, as there will be others reading the thread who might find some of what I have said to be relevant to their situation/experience.

If you think plumbers and tiles should get paid more than €35 per hour then state how much.

I would be curious to know what you think would be a fair hourly rate for a tiler, or a plumber. And what would be the distinguishing factors between the lower and higher hourly rate? Unless of course you are suggesting they should all charge the same rate? Should they include the hours they spend with potential customers and tyre kickers into that hourly rate?

I personally don't agree with an hourly rate. I want to know how much I am being charged for the job to be completed. If I am told it will be 5 grand and will take 2 days, I am not going to break it down into man hours. I either accept the price, or I don't. Supply and demand. People are paying these rates for various reasons.

It is common practice to overcharge for tradesmen and it is advisable to work how much you are actually paying for labour.

I am sure many do overcharge, but sometimes what seems like an overcharge, is an assumption that you should only be charged for the hours the tradesman is physically working on your premises. As I alluded to earlier and again in this this post, there are other factors involved.

If a plumber comes along and says the labour for a bathroom is €3k and says it will take 3 days you have to ask why. Even 2 people working for 3 day @ €35 per hour for 8 hour day is €1680. The plumber is getting €62.5 per hour and that is being really generous because you will be lucky if you aren't stuck with an apprentice on his own most of the time.

I suggest you read THIS. Will take 2 minutes and will explain a lot.

Just pointing out what you are actually paying for labour if you don't look into what they are quoting.you should be choose your tradesmen with care for both quality and price. I find those overcharging are the worst

I fully agree with the bold part.

TSQ wrote: »

The man sent a bill that read: Tapping with a hammer. . . $ 2.00
Knowing where to tap……….......................................$ 9,998.00

Except no-one here is proposing repairing a ship’s engine worth millions. So looking at a situation in the real world, you call a plumber because your tap leaks. He comes and changes a washer 10 minutes (something any unskilled handyman could do, myself included, by the way), and he charges you €200 + vat. because he knows how to use a wrench.

In case anyone else missed the point, it's this:

You can choose to pay the price for a professional, or you can choose to DIY it, or get a cheap cowboy.

There are plenty of DIY jobs I have come across that I reckon I could do, but I always weigh up the effort, cost of any new tools and the consequences of fecking it up. You might know how to fix a leaky tap (as do I), but there are a lot more people who don't know how to do this. Some people don't even own a screwdriver, or know what a wrench is.

Bottom line. If people were not paying the rates, the rates might be lower. There's plenty of work for plumbers and tilers at the moment.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It doesn't really matter whether you agree with the concept of hourly pay rates. You can still say how much they should get paid. Why are you interested in what my view is on a tiler hourly rate if you don't agree with them? €25 per hour as it is a semi skilled job.

Without healthy disagreement, these boards would be very boring. I am always open to changing my point of view and on occasion, someone might join me in my way of thinking. I was curious to know what you valued a skilled trades person, which you have clearly stated that a qualified plumber, or tiler is not. Perhaps €25 per hour is about right for a plumber/tiler employed by someone. They just show up and carry out their trade, not having to think about the next job, tools, insurance, tax returns, compliance etc etc.

No you don't charge other customers for your cost of business you work it into your rate. That is what all businesses do.

That is a contradiction right there. How can you not charge other customers for your cost of business and work it into your rate at the same time? Customers always pay for the cost of business, whether it's hours spent quoting the customer before you, or the heating and lights in your local supermarket. The customer pays.

Your fictional story doesn't prove anything as it isn't a complex system with only one specialist. It is system that has multiple sources to explain it with multiple people capable of doing it.

There are multiple factors in a plumber deciding their pricing is true and one of these factors is what they think they can get away with. They will certainly take an easy job and overcharge if they can. You would be a fool not to work out what they are charging for labour.

It's a well known story. Fictional or not, it carries a number of points. While I agree that there are multiple people (assuming you mean a lot of plumbers/tilers), the fact remains that they are in demand and as such, can charge the fees they have been.

I have successfully challenged quotes and got the job done. I have found honesty professional people with honest quotes. Your classifying a professional vaguely and are considering over charging as a good trait. My view is overcharging is not professional but the actions of a cowboy.

More power to you for challenging quotes. I also think it is wise to look at a quote and scrutinise it. It doesn't have to be a yes, or no right away. If I see room to negotiate, or bargain, I will do that. I expect a little wriggle room in any quote, but when I see a clear sign of greed, I won't work with that person/company at all. I do love to bargain and was once jokingly accused of using some sort of mind control by the agent when getting an insurance quote for Mrs Ghost.

Not everything should be broken down to an hourly rate. In my opinion, that really should only apply to people employed and paid by the hour. I don't know any tilers or plumbers driving around in Ferraris, or living in mansions, so either they are not making the profits you think they are making, or they all have terrible money handling skills.