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2014 LCU AGM

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    #32
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    I see it has a link to the results of the motions here https://stbenilduschessclub.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/2014-lcu-agm1.docx

    How did motion (c) and (v) both get passed? Which one takes precedence?

    (c) Make 90 minutes + 30 second increments or ( 110 + 10 s ) the default time control for divisions 1 & 2. (Bray C.C.)

    (v) ...If one of the players does not wish to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using the standard time control of two hours per player...


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    #33
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Choose A, B or C - if you don't choose, we'll go with A.
    Seems straightforward enough to me...


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    #34
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Sparks wrote: »
    Choose A, B or C - if you don't choose, we'll go with A.
    Seems straightforward enough to me...

    It says the default is both A and B?


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    #35
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Er, no, it says 90+30 or 110+10...


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    #36
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    One says Fischer time is the standard, and one says regular time is the standard. Can't be either. (90+30 or 120 can't both be the standard)

    It's entirely possible I'm wrong. The three motions were taken together, and I wasn't making notes at the time.


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    #37
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I kinda think you'd have to be one of Ireland's greatest plonkers to actually cause a ruckus over it in a match though :D

    "I DEMAND A!"
    "I DEMAND B! ARBITER!"
    "This, gentlemen, is called a coin. I shall now flip it into the air, where it shall repeatedly spin in a random fashion. When it falls to the ground, the side that is uppermost shall be designated the winning side. Should this be heads, it shall be A; should it be tails, it shall be B; and should either one of you two gombeens think this is objectionable, we'll go with C. Now, strap in boyo's, or I'm getting out the hurley..."


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    #38
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Sparks wrote: »
    I kinda think you'd have to be one of Ireland's greatest plonkers to actually cause a ruckus over it in a match though :D
    How long are you playing chess now? :p

    But in fairness, league rules shouldn't have such a blatant contradiction in them. Kinda defeats the point of league rules.

    What I find interesting is that there seems to be such strong feeling for Fischer time, yet I've never ever seen anyone request it at a league game. Tis strange!


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    #39
    RoundTower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    I think it's a pretty big difference, I wouldn't criticize anyone for insisting on playing with Fischer time (or quickplay time) if they thought the rules gave them that right. It's not like causing a fuss about which side the clock goes on.


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    #40
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Okay, am I completely misreading it? Because I read it as follows:
    (c) Make 90 minutes + 30 second increments or ( 110 + 10 s ) the default time control for divisions 1 & 2. (Bray C.C.)
    (v) ...If one of the players does not wish to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using the standard time control of two hours per player...
    (c) says you use Fischer time by default, whether in the format of 90mins + 30sec increments or in the format of 110mins + 10sec increments. Presumably two grown adults could sort out between themselves which format they'd use without needing to strip off, oil up and wrestle over it (although the youtube monetisation of that might well aid the LCU's coffers). I don't think myself that having two formats to choose from is all that broken; you already have that when you say you can use Fischer time or standard controls anyway.

    (v) then says that if either player doesn't want to use Fischer time (whether because the host club's clocks can't do it, or one player has a bus to catch because they didn't drive to the venue or they want their try at being the biggest plonker in Ireland or Reasons or whatever), then they revert to using the standard 120min time control.

    Maybe I just spend too much time telling incredibly stupid machines how to do every little thing in excruciatingly fine detail, but it just doesn't seem all that unworkable or contrary to me...


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    #41
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Besides, everyone knows the far more important thing is the introduction of Division 7 :P


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    #42
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Certainly what was agreed is that if either player wants to play Fischer time, the other must agree.

    This was eventually recognised after the chair thought it would be a bit unfair for one player to be playing to standard time and one to Fischer time...!


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    #43
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    cdeb wrote: »
    the chair thought it would be a bit unfair for one player to be playing to standard time and one to Fischer time...!
    Well, that'd make for an interesting game at least!


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    #44
    Irish Warrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Irish Warrior


    From what I remember about the 3 motions, there were amendments to them, it ended up something like...

    It was agreed that the 110min + 10s was removed from motions (thus passing the exec motion) as people using Fischer time are required to write their moves for the entire game (stop writing with 5mins or less remaining doesn't aplly to Fischer time) and 10s was deemed not to give enough time when relying on the increment when your time is all but gone.

    Fischer time of 90 min + 30s is now the default time for divisions 1 and 2, with the normal 2hr being used if both players agree, or if a club doesn't have the clocks to use Fischer time.

    The standard time controls will apply to divisions 3 to 7, with Fischer time not being an option for players, as the Skerries motion q was defeated.

    Thats just going off my memory though.


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    #45
    checknraise
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Matches are going to have to start earlier if this rule is going to be used. It really is terrible decision and extremely short sighted by the LCU to introduce it. I can see the introduction of the rule having a significant impact to playing numbers in the next few years.

    You just have to look at the winners of the Armstrong this year. A student team where the majority of the team do not drive and rely on public transport.

    It is funny tho as its seems some particularity weak players have convinced themselves that only if they have more time results would improve.


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    #46
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I don't think this year's Armstrong winners have much cause for complaint seeing as they weren't represented at the AGM, as far as I'm aware.

    I did raise the point about late finishes - as noted on this thread, two games in the last round in Malahide went on 4½ hours. I don't think you can really start much earlier than 7:15, allowing for commuting home from work to get the car to head out to an away game. There was lots of nonsense talk about "bringing the game into the 21st century" and "That's what they do in Europe", but little enough consideration of the practicalities of it.

    Fischer time in the bottom divisions is a particularly bad idea where there are more juniors playing. How do you explain to parents what time to expect the kids home at when it's Fischer time?


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    #47
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    But the rules specifically state that you don't have to use fischer time if you don't want to...


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    #48
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Which is why they had an AGM to change the rules...


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