New Stations

IE 222 · 19-10-2019 1:29am #1

Is there any new stations in the pipeline other than Pelletstown and Woodbrooke?

Whats the criteria to reopen or open a new station.

Is it a lack of funding, interest, vision or demand preventing more stations to be opened. There is many places that could be connected to the network. I know some previously had stations that closed but is it not time to start looking at reopening some of them.

Some noticable ones are,

Dunleer
Drogheda North (Newfoundwell)
Greystones North (Redford)
Avoca (tourism)
Ferns
Kildangan
Newtown Forbes

man98 · 19-10-2019 2:25am

Killucan is somewhere which has been campaigning for years for the station to be reopened.
Plans also exist for new stations at Dunkettle, Carrigtohill West, Blackpool, Blarney, and at a planned new town - these plans date back to the Celtic Tiger, but some will feasibly be open in the next decade.

L1011 · 19-10-2019 6:30am

Kishoge to finally open. Glasnevin for Metrolink and line interchange.

Dravokivich · 19-10-2019 10:57am

To say killucan would be a matter of re-opening is an understatement. Last time I went through it on a train a few years ago, the place was in dire condition. Any proposals would be looked at, with demolishing what's there and building anew.

L1011 · 19-10-2019 12:18pm

Any former station would have to be rebuilt to modern standards to reopen. Probably the only concession would be curved platforms if they already had them (new stations cannot)

marno21 · 19-10-2019 12:22pm

Cork Metropolitan Transport Strategy llama stations at Blarney, Monard, Blackpool, Tivoli, Dunkettle, Carrigtwohill West IDA, Water Rock and at Ballynoe on the Cobh line

Dravokivich · 19-10-2019 12:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

Any former station would have to be rebuilt to modern standards to reopen. Probably the only concession would be curved platforms if they already had them (new stations cannot)

Alot of them would have been demolished already though?

L1011 · 19-10-2019 1:25pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Alot of them would have been demolished already though?

Yes, or some element gone such as platform access steps

Don't think there's any ready to go (except Kishoge that never opened to begin with) even if standards could be ignored

IE 222 · 19-10-2019 5:44pm

man98 wrote: »

Killucan is somewhere which has been campaigning for years for the station to be reopened.
Plans also exist for new stations at Dunkettle, Carrigtohill West, Blackpool, Blarney, and at a planned new town - these plans date back to the Celtic Tiger, but some will feasibly be open in the next decade.

Yeah I forgot about killucan. It would also serve Kinnegad.

Yeah the Cork ones just need to get the finger out and go for it. Housing developments should be part of all station openings. Either make it apart of the planning permission or put a levy on each new build.

IE 222 · 19-10-2019 5:51pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Alot of them would have been demolished already though?

A lot of old platforms remain unless they want to clear the area for operational reasons to make way for equipment or access to the railway.

Obviously they'd be in no fit state to reopen as they are.

tabbey · 19-10-2019 8:42pm

IE 222 wrote: »

A lot of old platforms remain unless they want to clear the area for operational reasons to make way for equipment or access to the railway.

Obviously they'd be in no fit state to reopen as they are.

Any station reopened in the last 40 years has had raised or entirely rebuilt platforms.

IE 222 · 19-10-2019 9:47pm

tabbey wrote: »

Any station reopened in the last 40 years has had raised or entirely rebuilt platforms.

Yeah I wasn't disputing that. I clearly stated they wouldn't be reusable.

ohographite · 19-10-2019 10:10pm

It would be great to have a station to act as a transfer point between the Phoenix Park Tunnel line and the Luas green line.
Liffey Junction, the spot where these two lines intersect, is not road accessible*, but trains that use the Phoenix Park Tunnel line would only be able to connect to the green line with this potential station.

*It is, however, accessible from the Royal Canal Way.

MrAbyss · 19-10-2019 11:17pm

Cabra on the PPT line.

dowlingm · 20-10-2019 4:44pm

The issue for me would be where in the network could a station be opened AND the trains serving it don’t already have capacity issues... Even when the 41 22Ks come and clear the interminable commissioning process, 29Ks are heading into overdue overhaul and who knows what might be decided about the 26 and 28 sets.

The recent pictures in the photo thread link Wanderer threw up of Sixmilebridge are damning. No connecting buses (Shannon town even if you didn’t figure on airport custom), no cars in the car park, no passing loop to enable frequent service. No development in adjacent parcels. What’s the point in throwing up more stations unless they are built to succeed from day one.

CoBo55 · 20-10-2019 4:53pm

Ferns? Seriously? Even when it was a working station no one used it.

Bass Reeves · 20-10-2019 4:55pm

dowlingm wrote: »

The issue for me would be where in the network could a station be opened AND the trains serving it don’t already have capacity issues... Even when the 41 22Ks come and clear the interminable commissioning process, 29Ks are heading into overdue overhaul and who knows what might be decided about the 26 and 28 sets.

The recent pictures in the photo thread link Wanderer threw up of Sixmilebridge are damning. No connecting buses (Shannon town even if you didn’t figure on airport custom), no cars in the car park, no passing loop to enable frequent service. No development in adjacent parcels. What’s the point in throwing up more stations unless they are built to succeed from day one.

Sixmlebridge is 10km from Shannon. Shannon is 23 km from Limerick. There would be no demand access railway station to get to Limerick. Bus services are much more.important and should be targeted with funding in places like Limerick

L1011 · 20-10-2019 5:37pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Ferns? Seriously? Even when it was a working station no one used it.

People have called for Camolin to reopen....

L1011 · 20-10-2019 5:39pm

dowlingm wrote: »

The issue for me would be where in the network could a station be opened AND the trains serving it don’t already have capacity issues... Even when the 41 22Ks come and clear the interminable commissioning process, 29Ks are heading into overdue overhaul and who knows what might be decided about the 26 and 28 sets.
.

Any station not already in planning is going to have a five year leadtime. There will be a huge stock cascade when Maynooth is electrified and the same for Hazelhatch. Forward planning to add P&R style stations would be a positive now

tabbey · 20-10-2019 8:10pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Ferns? Seriously? Even when it was a working station no one used it.

Ferns station is 10-15 minutes walk from the village, which is served by frequent buses. Secondly the excessively low speed north of Greystones makes the route uncompetitive.

tabbey · 20-10-2019 8:13pm

L1011 wrote: »

People have called for Camolin to reopen....

This and Ferns would only add to the excessive journey time on this route, as it is one of the few stretches of straight track it has.

Del.Monte · 20-10-2019 9:34pm

tabbey wrote: »

Ferns station is 10-15 minutes walk from the village, which is served by frequent buses. Secondly the excessively low speed north of Greystones makes the route uncompetitive.

Anecdotally, the distance from the village to the station won't have that much affect as most (?) people seem to get dropped/picked-up at rural stations. Any additional traffic south of Arklow would be most welcome, and why leave Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus with a free run?

CoBo55 · 21-10-2019 1:25am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Anecdotally, the distance from the village to the station won't have that much affect as most (?) people seem to get dropped/picked-up at rural stations. Any additional traffic south of Arklow would be most welcome, and why leave Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus with a free run?

Because as railways go, the dead slow and easy, south of Gorey is a joke, they're still running the same amount of passenger trains as they did in the seventies.

tabbey · 21-10-2019 12:02pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Because as railways go, the dead slow and easy, south of Gorey is a joke, they're still running the same amount of passenger trains as they did in the seventies.

In the 1970s there were two trains each way in summer and three in summer. We have a couple more now.
The real problem is that the journey time is increasing due to DART trains running ahead of the mainline trains. Meanwhile Bray, Arklow, Gorey and Enniscorthy have been bypassed with almost continous motorway to south o Enniscorthy, reducing road journey times except at peak hours.

Geuze · 21-10-2019 4:09pm

Roscam?

intellectual dosser · 21-10-2019 4:19pm

Geuze wrote: »

Roscam?

I think commercially a station at Roscam would work. I believe a passing loop is to be built at Oranmore station (may have been in proposal only).

https://galwaydaily.com/news/galway-councils-pushing-for-athenry-to-city-commuter-train/

loyatemu · 21-10-2019 4:49pm

considering the Wexford line south of Gorey is on IÉ's hitlist, I'd be worried if they decided to start reopening stations on it.

Not sure what the benefit of Greystones North would be, I don't think there's space there for park and ride, and it would be a bad location for that anyway.

IE 222 · 21-10-2019 11:05pm

loyatemu wrote: »

considering the Wexford line south of Gorey is on IÉ's hitlist, I'd be worried if they decided to start reopening stations on it.

Not sure what the benefit of Greystones North would be, I don't think there's space there for park and ride, and it would be a bad location for that anyway.

The line won't close South of Gorey. At most Wexford - Rosslare will be reduced to 2 services a day. There is not a hope in this day and age any transport body or government would get away closing a main line to Dublin to large a sized town such as Wexford.

Greystones North would allow for a passing section and possibly allow for an increase of services around Bray head. There is also a large amount of housing in the Redford area which is a considerable walk from the current Greystones station.

Im not sure about the future development plans of Greystones but there is plenty of land to build on in the general area and building close to rail lines and including stations is probably one of the best solutions in of fighting traffic congestion in my opinion. Building large scale housing estates beside motorways hasn't proven to be major success really.

IE 222 · 21-10-2019 11:34pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think commercially a station at Roscam would work. I believe a passing loop is to be built at Oranmore station (may have been in proposal only).

https://galwaydaily.com/news/galway-councils-pushing-for-athenry-to-city-commuter-train/

Yeah Roscam could support a station.

Why was Oranmore built where it was and not at the level crossing where the old station was. This would be a good location for a park and ride as well.

IE 222 · 21-10-2019 11:53pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Because as railways go, the dead slow and easy, south of Gorey is a joke, they're still running the same amount of passenger trains as they did in the seventies.

Were going to have to invest in are railways at some stage in the near future.

To name a few, €250 million on Westport - Clastebar, €300 million on the Adare bypass and €900 million on N20 upgrade, these are likely to be minimum figures and given Adare bypass will cost €300 I can't see Westport - Castlebar getting done for €250 million.

That kind of money would transform regional lines throughout the country rather than little pockets of road here and there.

At the same time state companies are possibly going to invest millions into reopening the Fyones line for freight. That €300 million for the bypass would reopen the line for passengers and a spur to Newcastle West along with all the other towns in between such as Dooradoyle, Raheen business park ect. and still offer a saving.

Bass Reeves · 22-10-2019 12:15am

IE 222 wrote: »

Were going to have to invest in are railways at some stage in the near future.

To name a few, €250 million on Westport - Clastebar, €300 million on the Adare bypass and €900 million on N20 upgrade, these are likely to be minimum figures and given Adare bypass will cost €300 I can't see Westport - Castlebar getting done for €250 million.

That kind of money would transform regional lines throughout the country rather than little pockets of road here and there.

At the same time state companies are possibly going to invest millions into reopening the Fyones line for freight. That €300 million for the bypass would reopen the line for passengers and a spur to Newcastle West along with all the other towns in between such as Dooradoyle, Raheen business park ect. and still offer a saving.

We do not have the population densities for trains to give regular services outside the greater Dublin area and maybe some lines into Cork.. Only a fraction of freight will travel by train. At present there is virtually no rail freight operations in Ireland. I cannot see Foynes rail line reopening. Adare Bypass is part of the Foynes port access route. It a motorway from the Limerick side of Adare going as far as Rathkeale and then going onto Foynes. It an EU funded port access plan. I imagine the 300 million is for the complete route from Foynes to access the motorway beyond Adare.

The N20 upgrade should have being done 10 years ago. Even if the motorways is routed to Cahir or Mitcheltown there will be a necessity to upgrade the N20 from Croom to Charlesville and From Buttervant to Rathduff and bypass, both towns as well as upgrade the Mallow bypass.

CoBo55 · 22-10-2019 7:56am

IE 222 wrote: »

Were going to have to invest in are railways at some stage in the near future.

To name a few, €250 million on Westport - Clastebar, €300 million on the Adare bypass and €900 million on N20 upgrade, these are likely to be minimum figures and given Adare bypass will cost €300 I can't see Westport - Castlebar getting done for €250 million.

That kind of money would transform regional lines throughout the country rather than little pockets of road here and there.

At the same time state companies are possibly going to invest millions into reopening the Fyones line for freight. That €300 million for the bypass would reopen the line for passengers and a spur to Newcastle West along with all the other towns in between such as Dooradoyle, Raheen business park ect. and still offer a saving.

Cwr, a few colour light signals, ditch the signal man in the cabin and the ds&e is considered upgraded, at least it stopped the nostalgia boys from the UK coming over to laugh at us.

IE 222 · 22-10-2019 8:07am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We do not have the population densities for trains to give regular services outside the greater Dublin area and maybe some lines into Cork.. Only a fraction of freight will travel by train. At present there is virtually no rail freight operations in Ireland. I cannot see Foynes rail line reopening. Adare Bypass is part of the Foynes port access route. It a motorway from the Limerick side of Adare going as far as Rathkeale and then going onto Foynes. It an EU funded port access plan. I imagine the 300 million is for the complete route from Foynes to access the motorway beyond Adare.

The N20 upgrade should have being done 10 years ago. Even if the motorways is routed to Cahir or Mitcheltown there will be a necessity to upgrade the N20 from Croom to Charlesville and From Buttervant to Rathduff and bypass, both towns as well as upgrade the Mallow bypass.

I'm not saying the money should be pumped into additional services. The level of services should always be determined by the level of demand. What I'm saying is providing the funds to improve the infrastructure, increase line speeds, remove bottlenecks ect. This itself will eventually increase demand.

Rail freight has more potential in the future and is slowly growing. The cost of road freight is only going to continue increasing. Rail will become a cheaper alternative.

Putting freight onto rail in Foyne's will remove the need for a motorway. Upgrading the line for passengers at the same time will be a massive benefit to Limerick overall and benefit a lot more people while also reducing congestion.

All the N20 needs is some more 2 plus 1 lanes between Croom and New Twopothouse. There is absolutely no need for bypasses. The level of traffic doesn't justify motorway status. Beyond regional commuting towns motorways are seriously underused.

In hindsight the M7 should of been built to Cahir and from there continued on as the M8. Upgrading the N18 to Ennis, the N24 and the N25 from Waterford to Wexford to dual carriageway would of been more than suffice for the whole southern half of the country instead of these individual motorways.

IE 222 · 22-10-2019 8:23am

CoBo55 wrote: »

Cwr, a few colour light signals, ditch the signal man in the cabin and the ds&e is considered upgraded, at least it stopped the nostalgia boys from the UK coming over to laugh at us.

Well if going to put together a shoestring budget for upgrades don't expect much in return.

How much has been spent on the M11 to date. The last section came in at €400 million with the best part of.a billion been spent on it so far. A fraction of that money would make a massive difference to the Wexford line.

loyatemu · 22-10-2019 9:02am

IE 222 wrote: »

Greystones North would allow for a passing section and possibly allow for an increase of services around Bray head. There is also a large amount of housing in the Redford area which is a considerable walk from the current Greystones station.

Redford isn't that far from the village, it's maybe 15 minutes walk. I don't think there is any land zoned for housing there either (though it's close to the marina development).

there is certainly room for a passing loop and there is an engineering report on doubling the line between Greystones station and the first tunnel, but I'd be surprised if an extra station was opened. It would cancel out some of the capacity benefit of doubling the line for a start.

CoBo55 · 22-10-2019 9:36am

IE 222 wrote: »

Well if going to put together a shoestring budget for upgrades don't expect much in return.

How much has been spent on the M11 to date. The last section came in at €400 million with the best part of.a billion been spent on it so far. A fraction of that money would make a massive difference to the Wexford line.

Not much point if there's only 3 trains a day and nil goods traffic.

end of the road · 22-10-2019 12:01pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We do not have the population densities for trains to give regular services outside the greater Dublin area and maybe some lines into Cork..

incorrect. all of the lines that exist have the population dencities to support them. if they didn't, they would have closed in the 60s. 99% of the lines are heavily used and removing them would just hugely increase single car traffic.
ireland meeting it's transport needs via roads only is just not cost effective, and it is going to get to a stage where it is going to be way to expensive to maintain all of the road network we have if we keep building and expanding.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Only a fraction of freight will travel by train.

there is scale for more of it to do so. you won't get every bit traveling by train and nobody is expecting that or even suggesting it. however to continue catering to the amounts traveling by roads which will likely increase, is going to become unaffordable.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

At present there is virtually no rail freight operations in Ireland.

incorrect, there is some freight in ireland traveling by train. freight from mayo, and freight from tara mines. small yes, but far from virtually no freight.

end of the road · 22-10-2019 12:36pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Not much point if there's only 3 trains a day and nil goods traffic.

the service was increased from 3 trains a day back in 2004.

IE 222 · 22-10-2019 9:40pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Redford isn't that far from the village, it's maybe 15 minutes walk. I don't think there is any land zoned for housing there either (though it's close to the marina development).

there is certainly room for a passing loop and there is an engineering report on doubling the line between Greystones station and the first tunnel, but I'd be surprised if an extra station was opened. It would cancel out some of the capacity benefit of doubling the line for a start.

It's about a 25 min walk for the avg person from the station to Redford. That's a considerable walk twice a day on top of the train journey. Add poor weather into the mix and most will take the car instead.

Trains will likely hold on the Greystones side of the tunnel waiting for a path to clear meaning the train will be stopped either way.

IE 222 · 22-10-2019 9:42pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Not much point if there's only 3 trains a day and nil goods traffic.

I wonder why that is.

ohographite · 22-10-2019 11:17pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Not much point if there's only 3 trains a day and nil goods traffic.

Well, I think the Rosslare line should have 8 trains daily(at least).

Markcheese · 23-10-2019 2:37pm

Any idea how much a new station would be? (I get that restoring old station buildings is an indeterminate thing), but if there was a plan to put in lots of new stations, could it be done more cheaply,? with maybe modular pedestrian bridges and lift shafts..

Bass Reeves · 23-10-2019 8:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect. all of the lines that exist have the population dencities to support them. if they didn't, they would have closed in the 60s. 99% of the lines are heavily used and removing them would just hugely increase single car traffic.
ireland meeting it's transport needs via roads only is just not cost effective, and it is going to get to a stage where it is going to be way to expensive to maintain all of the road network we have if we keep building and expanding.

I was refering to commuting rail from towns outside cities other than Cork and Limerick not to the intercity rail. However an analysis of this is not great either. When you look at Sixmilebridge which is on the Ennis route and by definitation Galway 8 services/day will not encourage people to switch to rail. yes you will have a few that it suits as the timetable will align with there working hours. A timetable with only one-2 peak options will not change travelling behaviour. Better off a decent Bus timetable every 30 minutes or even more often

end of the road wrote: »

there is scale for more of it to do so. you won't get every bit traveling by train and nobody is expecting that or even suggesting it. however to continue catering to the amounts traveling by roads which will likely increase, is going to become unaffordable.

It hasn't so far

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect, there is some freight in ireland traveling by train. freight from mayo, and freight from tara mines. small yes, but far from virtually no freight.

Ireland is too small a country to have rail freight as an option. Goods coming into Foynes will gennerally be for that region. No point in loading gods onto a train to carry to Limerick, Cork or Galway unload them and put them on trucks for distribution.

rail freight works in general where the goods are travelling long distances. Yes there may be an option for some bulk delivers like ore but in general loading and unloading containers onto a train to travel less than 200 miles is not really an option.

Take Limerick Foynes loading a train to carry goods to Limerick to then unload in Limerick and heading maybe back out to Raheen when on a truck it would be there in 40 minutes from Foynes. Rail is inefficient for freight in Ireland

end of the road · 23-10-2019 10:12pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I was refering to commuting rail from towns outside cities other than Cork and Limerick not to the intercity rail. However an analysis of this is not great either. When you look at Sixmilebridge which is on the Ennis route and by definitation Galway 8 services/day will not encourage people to switch to rail. yes you will have a few that it suits as the timetable will align with there working hours. A timetable with only one-2 peak options will not change travelling behaviour. Better off a decent Bus timetable every 30 minutes or even more often

commuting to the smaller cities from towns isn't any less viable then commuting from towns to cork and dublin. it will require the building up of those cities sure, but that is going to have to happen anyway and rail is going to have to be a major part of the transport solution.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It hasn't so far

lots of things haven't happened or been done so far. it doesn't mean things can't or won't change.
at the moment ireland has an unhealthy obsession with road transport and everything is geared to it. so of course you are only going to get small pockets of rail freight. however it is going to have to change or it will quite possibly be changed for us.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ireland is too small a country to have rail freight as an option. Goods coming into Foynes will gennerally be for that region. No point in loading gods onto a train to carry to Limerick, Cork or Galway unload them and put them on trucks for distribution.

ireland is perfectly suited to rail freight depending on the load.
transferring freight is not the massive job it would have been years ago with the big crains and gantries and loads remaining for long periods. these days it can simply be transferred to train from the ship (rail connection depending, can be solved with will) and at journeys end simply lifted to the truck within a very short period.
as i said, we are not going to be able to afford and sustain the amount of infrastructure that road only freight requires in the long term, so there will have to be a shift. there is no suggestion of moving everything to rail, that can't happen, but most certainly there are flows out there that can be transferred.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

rail freight works in general where the goods are travelling long distances. Yes there may be an option for some bulk delivers like ore but in general loading and unloading containers onto a train to travel less than 200 miles is not really an option.

it is an option but it will require a change of mindset from central government to allow for the conditions for it to be so. it will be easier for them to do it themselves then to have the changes forced upon them, which i reccan long term they will be so.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Take Limerick Foynes loading a train to carry goods to Limerick to then unload in Limerick and heading maybe back out to Raheen when on a truck it would be there in 40 minutes from Foynes. Rail is inefficient for freight in Ireland

rail is not inefficient for freight in ireland. if it was there would be no freight at all. it's perfectly efficient depending on the load and sometimes the distance.
using short journeys such as foynes to limerick and to somewhere in limerick for example only proves that that particular flow may not be suited to rail freight, not that rail freight isn't viable in ireland, which it absolutely is and has been proven so, and continues to be proven so.

IE 222 · 23-10-2019 10:17pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Any idea how much a new station would be? (I get that restoring old station buildings is an indeterminate thing), but if there was a plan to put in lots of new stations, could it be done more cheaply,? with maybe modular pedestrian bridges and lift shafts..

Unless it's a listed building or is of some sort importance there is no need to restore buildings. It will either be removed or fenced off unless its actually needed.

In terms of platforms and infrastructure it depends on the local terrain and demand really. With single track lines, to save on costs they may only construct one platform without a passing loop or they may build the loop beyond the platform if ones required. If 2 platforms are built and each have accessible entrances to the local access road, lifts and footbridge isn't required.

IE 222 · 23-10-2019 10:55pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I was refering to commuting rail from towns outside cities other than Cork and Limerick not to the intercity rail. However an analysis of this is not great either. When you look at Sixmilebridge which is on the Ennis route and by definitation Galway 8 services/day will not encourage people to switch to rail. yes you will have a few that it suits as the timetable will align with there working hours. A timetable with only one-2 peak options will not change travelling behaviour. Better off a decent Bus timetable every 30 minutes or even more often

It hasn't so far

Ireland is too small a country to have rail freight as an option. Goods coming into Foynes will gennerally be for that region. No point in loading gods onto a train to carry to Limerick, Cork or Galway unload them and put them on trucks for distribution.

rail freight works in general where the goods are travelling long distances. Yes there may be an option for some bulk delivers like ore but in general loading and unloading containers onto a train to travel less than 200 miles is not really an option.

Take Limerick Foynes loading a train to carry goods to Limerick to then unload in Limerick and heading maybe back out to Raheen when on a truck it would be there in 40 minutes from Foynes. Rail is inefficient for freight in Ireland

You can't justify the importance of a regional line on just one town. The service in its entirety is a link between Limerick and Galway while also serving Ennis, it's not the Sixmilebridge service. The service also feeds passengers into intercity services to Dublin and Cork and elsewhere.

Your right "so far" is the point were making. Freight costs are going through the roof. Insurance, fuel, taxes, wages and most likely border checks in the near future will increase the cost. How will electric trucks fair with heavy loads ect, time will tell.

Fyones is going to be a tier 1 national bulk port. Yes a good chunk of the material will be for local needs but a good bit of it won't be. It's the only port on the west coast and it serves the whole of the west.

I don't think you really have a grasp on the idea of rail freight to be fair. I don't think anyone is suggesting to use rail instead of road to shift a couple of containers between Fyones and Raheen.

The entry point of goods is usually determined by the shipping company's routes or the origin of the shipment rather than the local port of the shipments final destination. For example, Cork receives something like 50 plus containers of bananas every week, these bananas are all sent up to Dublin for storage, even the bananas for Cork go to Dublin and come back down again when ready. Rail is about removing large shipments like this that are not necessarily local movements of the road. The ballina service removes at least 8000 truck kilometres off the road a day. Why use 18 trucks and drivers to shift goods from point a to point b when 1 train can do it.

Jem72 · 25-10-2019 10:43am

Reopening Killucan or possible a new station in the area at heart of a new town would make a lot of sense but it would probably need massive investment to re-double the section between Mullingar and Maynooth. But there is a fundamental political decision needed as to how we're going to move people around in the net-zero carbon economy that will inevitably appear in the next 20 years. If we're still in the mindset of throwing hundreds of millions of euro at relatively small road projects, there is little point in investing in station re-openings and rail development. But we'll find out to our cost in 20 years time that we made a really bad decision

There is likely to be a major investment in improving the N4 between Mullingar and Longford in the next few years. If this happens, that corridor will be opened up to a proper high-frequency bus service. This could cause the closure of the Sligo line beyond Longford or even Mullingar as even currently the train is hopelessly uncompetitive on price with the M4 direct bus service between Edgeworthstown and Dublin. With a motorway knocking 10 minutes off the journey time and the train getting a minute or two slower every year, it won't be long before the bus beats it on time as well.

dowlingm · 25-10-2019 6:13pm

Jem72 wrote: »

There is likely to be a major investment in improving the N4 between Mullingar and Longford in the next few years. If this happens, that corridor will be opened up to a proper high-frequency bus service. This could cause the closure of the Sligo line beyond Longford or even Mullingar as even currently the train is hopelessly uncompetitive on price with the M4 direct bus service between Edgeworthstown and Dublin. With a motorway knocking 10 minutes off the journey time and the train getting a minute or two slower every year, it won't be long before the bus beats it on time as well.

If the rail is limited by an unwillingness to invest (in additional doubling or dynamic loops or removal of PSRs), but roads benefit from investment... then we can either accept the inevitable scenario you paint - or maybe change political minds on investing in the rail network? If Maynooth DART happens then without some additional track capacity to the west it is likely that InterCity and outer suburban will struggle to get sufficient suitable paths anyway.

Pete_Cavan · 02-11-2019 10:44am

Has there been any more on a potential new station at Kylemore Road? There are plans for more than 2,000 apartments on the Naas Road with half of them planned for a redevelopment of the Royal Liver Retail Park so there should be the population for it in the not too distant future.

L1011 · 02-11-2019 10:54am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Has there been any more on a potential new station at Kylemore Road? There are plans for more than 2,000 apartments on the Naas Road with half of them planned for a redevelopment of the Royal Liver Retail Park so there should be the population for it in the not too distant future.

It's going to be done for the Hazelhatch DART, which is actually underway process-wise now. Maynooth line first then it

Pete_Cavan · 02-11-2019 1:05pm

L1011 wrote: »

It's going to be done for the Hazelhatch DART, which is actually underway process-wise now. Maynooth line first then it

So Hazelhatch DART includes electrification, quad-tracking (with necessarybbridge replacements) and the new station all in one go?

Is it Maynooth first then Hazelhatch or will both be done in parallel? Am I right in saying that tenders for consultants for both Maynooth and Hazelhatch have been issued? Maynooth will be a bit of a battle planning wise with level crossings removal so if Hazelhatch has to wait for it then it could be waiting for a while.

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