‘Leap From One Bus To The Next And Save Money With ‘Leap 90 Discounting’

Yggr of Asgard · 01-11-2014 11:20am #1

Dublin Bus introduces a new Leap Card function:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Leap-90-Discount/

From Sunday 2nd November, Leap Card will introduce a new feature when you use a Leap Card to travel on Dublin Bus.

Travel Further for Less - If you pay your bus fare using Travel Credit on your Leap Card, you can now make unlimited bus transfers within 90 minutes and receive a discount on your fare. With ‘Leap 90 Discount’, if you take two or more buses to reach your destination, Leap 90 Discounting will automatically refund you up to €1.00 (€0.70 child fare) to your Leap Card Travel Credit from the second, third or subsequent fares paid.

Your next journey must begin within 90 minutes of the previous journey. If you are paying the City Centre fare, the full €0.55 fare will be refunded to your Leap Card.

Hassle Free – Your Leap Card will always select the best value fare option from your Travel Credit, e.g. individual fare, capping or Leap 90 Discount, so you don’t need to decide.

Nice for those who must use more than one bus to get to their destinations.

stop · 01-11-2014 11:41am

If the first fare is the city centre fare does the discount still apply off the swine fare?

V_Moth · 01-11-2014 12:46pm

dublin-texas wrote: »

Dublin Bus introduces a new Leap Card function:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Leap-90-Discount/

Nice for those who must use more than one bus to get to their destinations.

So the journey that now costs €2.75 (Paper T90) will now cost €4 (Leap T90)? Nice one Dublin Bus!

LXFlyer · 01-11-2014 12:50pm

V_Moth wrote: »

So the journey that now costs €2.75 (Paper T90) will now cost €4 (Leap T90)? Nice one Dublin Bus!

Well what it will cost depends on how much travel you do.

It's the NTA who are changing this - not Dublin Bus.

Lifelike · 01-11-2014 1:11pm

V_Moth wrote: »

So the journey that now costs €2.75 (Paper T90) will now cost €4 (Leap T90)? Nice one Dublin Bus!

And it'll be €4.20 from the 1st December when fares go up!

devnull · 01-11-2014 1:28pm

More people will probably benefit from this than the travel 90 though in the long run since everyone gets it who uses leap automatically rather than having to buy a dedicated ticket all of the time like with T90.

I'd say that despite the fact the discount isn't so great, long run more people will avail of it than the t90 ticket.

AlekSmart · 01-11-2014 2:14pm

devnull wrote: »

More people will probably benefit from this than the travel 90 though in the long run since everyone gets it who uses leap automatically rather than having to buy a dedicated ticket all of the time like with T90.

I'd say that despite the fact the discount isn't so great, long run more people will avail of it than the t90 ticket.

It's worth bearing in mind that the enduring popularity of the BAC Travel 90 ticket has been a thorn in the NTA's side since it's formation.

The NTA made no secret of it's dislike for this ticket which,being a BAC only product very definitely served to benefit ONLY BAC customers.

This,in the mind of the NTA,reinforced the "Market Dominance" of BAC,which is the absolute mantra which is currently guiding NTA policy.

This is why,since the NTA took over responsibility for Fare determinations,the relative attractiveness of the BAC T90 product has been whittled away by enforcing price increases beyond the norm.

The new Leap90 now offers discounts rather than Free Journeys and will in early 2015 be extended to multi-modal operation ie:combinations of Bus/Rail/Tram and eventually Private operators also.

BAC will be taking quite a hit on this initially,particularly in the early stages of multi-mode,however as a long term process I believe it will be increasingly seen as attracting more business to ALL PT modes.

This HAS to be a good overall move in enticing the reluctant rump of Cash Payers still out there...The message just HAS to put out there that those choosing the Cash option are going to be paying FAR more than the Leapcard person boarding with them.

When one also realizes that the last vestiges of Ancient Dublin City Bus Services,The Outer-Surban Fare List will be abolished from Dec 1st,it can be seen that these changes really do herald the end of an era.

Equally useful is the new Single Fare for Expresso €2.85 Leap vs €3.60 Cash

Odd too,how none of the Media reports mention the 75c Reduction now available to those travelling 7-13 stages and switching to Leapcard's €2.05 for that journey ....wonder why

PS: One other Ticket Issue I would have addresssed would be a Weekend Family ticket deliberately priced down to attract the discretionary business currently put off by that eye-watering €13.50 One Day Family Rambler !!!

etchyed · 01-11-2014 4:08pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's worth bearing in mind that the enduring popularity of the BAC Travel 90 ticket has been a thorn in the NTA's side since it's formation.

The NTA made no secret of it's dislike for this ticket which,being a BAC only product very definitely served to benefit ONLY BAC customers.

This,in the mind of the NTA,reinforced the "Market Dominance" of BAC,which is the absolute mantra which is currently guiding NTA policy.

This is why...

This is a complete fabrication and a lie. You are wilfully misrepresenting the NTA's position.

LXFlyer · 01-11-2014 4:10pm

etchyed wrote: »

This is a complete fabrication and a lie. You are wilfully misrepresenting the NTA's position.

I think you'll find that there certainly is no great love for the 90 minute unlimited travel aspect within the NTA - they are more keen on travel rebates.

etchyed · 01-11-2014 4:24pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I think you'll find that there certainly is no great love for the 90 minute unlimited travel aspect within the NTA - they are more keen on travel rebates.

That may (or may not) be the case, but the section of Alek's post I've quoted goes far beyond what you're saying.

clunked · 01-11-2014 5:17pm

etchyed wrote: »

This is a complete fabrication and a lie. You are wilfully misrepresenting the NTA's position.

I'm confused by your accusation. Can you provide evidence to back up your statement?

LXFlyer · 01-11-2014 5:22pm

etchyed wrote: »

That may (or may not) be the case, but the section of Alek's post I've quoted goes far beyond what you're saying.

I don't think what Alek is saying is far off the mark.

The NTA want to ultimately do away with operator specific tickets and have everything centralised - that will have to happen if current DB bus routes are going to be operated by other operators.

You would have a position where DB ramblers for example will not be valid on those routes operated by other companies as these are DB specific products.

loyatemu · 01-11-2014 6:47pm

why is this bus only? why not give the discount if you get a bus then a luas?

bk · 01-11-2014 6:51pm

I think this is mixed news.

Obviously it is bad news for people who already use T90, but I think it is good news for the majority of infrequent users.

I think the T90 was always a weird niche product, that wasn't really attractive to many people.

For those who regularly take two buses or more (for instance going to school or work every day) then clearly a monthly ticket, specially a tax saver is much better value.

So really the T90 only benefited relatively infrequent users. But then it seemed like too much bother for most people. First you most know of it's existence. Then you have to go out of your way to buy it. Pay a high up front cost for 10 journeys. Remember to bring it with you and use it when you needed it. Risk the possibility of losing lots of money if you lost it.

On the most part it seemed like far too much effort for infrequent users.

I know it was for myself, I only use the bus about 4 times a week and then only for one journey (in and out of town). But about twice a month I'd take two journeys to reach friends on te other side of the city, etc. But even though I knew of the existence of T90. I just couldn't be bothered actually getting one.

So this will end up benefiting me more then T90 and I believe more people will end up benefiting from it due to it's automated nature.

It is very clear the direction the NTA is taking us and I welcome it. It is a vast simplification of the tickets offered.

Previously you had multiple decisions to make and it was all very complicated. You would often need a spreadsheet to work out what ticket would be best for you. Far too complicated for most people.

The new setup is very clear, you have just one question to ask:

Are you a heavy or light public bus user?

- Heavy users (daily take the bus to work/school) should get a monthly or yearly ticket, particularly if they can avail of the tax saver ticket.

- Light users should just use the Leap Card epurse and they will automatically benefit from transfer rebates, daily caps and weekly caps. No need to think about it further, you will always get the best value for money automatically.

bk · 01-11-2014 6:52pm

loyatemu wrote: »

why is this bus only? why not give the discount if you get a bus then a luas?

They say it is coming in early 2015 too.

Probably need to negotiate how the fare is divided up between the companies.

markpb · 01-11-2014 8:34pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't think what Alek is saying is far off the mark.

The NTA want to ultimately do away with operator specific tickets and have everything centralised - that will have to happen if current DB bus routes are going to be operated by other operators.

You would have a position where DB ramblers for example will not be valid on those routes operated by other companies as these are DB specific products.

I guess we'll never know for sure which is right but I find BKs reasoning more plausible. There's no reason why the NTA couldn't have come up with a T90 leap ticket which worked on all buses regardless of operator or which worked on all operators. There are system is far simpler and, because of that, far more likely to be used by passengers.

More importantly, any Leap ticket which needs to be pre-purchased and collected off-bus is never likely to be a popular option compared with one which customers automatically benefit from without doing anything.

AngryLips · 01-11-2014 10:09pm

While I agree with the principle behind the introduction of this rebate I also think it represents a hamfisted implementation to a poorly conceived solution. It is poor value for the passenger and misses (quite possibly) the best opportunity the NTA had to encourage that modal shift to public transport use that's always being talked about.

If you look at the price difference between the new minimum DB leap fare versus the new maximum DB leap fare it is €1.10 (€2.60 less €1.50). These are journeys that often run from one extreme end of the city to the other. The rebate needs to leave the passenger paying a similar difference in fare as the max and minimum fare for a single bus journey. The message needs to be put across that people are charged per journey not per mode.

Why are the NTA not supporting this objective? So they can protect the marginal DB revenue of those small handful of customers who need to use more than one bus during their journey and who isn't already on a taxsaver ticket? Is that pot of gold really worth it? Is it even that big? I don't think so.

And call me a cynic, but will we see similar increases in the rebate value as prices go up in future or will it slowly be eroded because it remains static?

AlekSmart · 02-11-2014 12:33am

AngryLips wrote: »

While I agree with the principle behind the introduction of this rebate I also think it represents a hamfisted implementation to a poorly conceived solution. It is poor value for the passenger and misses (quite possibly) the best opportunity the NTA had to encourage that modal shift to public transport use that's always being talked about.

If you look at the price difference between the new minimum DB leap fare versus the new maximum DB leap fare it is €1.10 (€2.60 less €1.50). These are journeys that often run from one extreme end of the city to the other. The rebate needs to leave the passenger paying a similar difference in fare as the max and minimum fare for a single bus journey. The message needs to be put across that people are charged per journey not per mode.

Why are the NTA not supporting this objective? So they can protect the marginal DB revenue of those small handful of customers who need to use more than one bus during their journey and who isn't already on a taxsaver ticket? Is that pot of gold really worth it? Is it even that big? I don't think so.

And call me a cynic, but will we see similar increases in the rebate value as prices go up in future or will it slowly be eroded because it remains static?

I think you may be jumping the gun just a tad on the NTA's support issue.

Come Q1 2015,the Multi-Mode element will certainly be a HUGE step forward in terms of facilitating on-the-fly use of modes in Dublin,something oft lauded about other European Cities,such as Berlin or Paris.

The revenue allocation element is certain to require a degree of jesuitical wisdom to get right by everybody,however I get the feeling that this time the NTA actually DO have a worthy goal in view.

It's worth noting that Dart,Suburban Rail,Luas,Bus Eireann AND whatever other Leap using Private Operators,such as Matthews Coaches,Swords Express are expected to be fully capable of implimenting the T90 Rebate,something,which of itself,will be mould breaking.

As for misrepresenting the NTA's attitude,I obviously don't speak for them,but I firmly believe that one of their major considerations when deliberating on Fare Structures going forward is not to be seen as facilitating the maintainance of BAC's market dominant position.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-to-increase-pre-paid-ticket-prices-345480-Feb2012/

Doubling the general rate of Pre-Paid Ticket increase for the Travel 90 in 2010 was one very obvious indicator of this intent.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-to-increase-pre-paid-ticket-prices-345480-Feb2012/

The cost of Rambler, Travelwide and Travel 90 tickets – all of which allow users to take a number of journeys in a limited time – will rise by an average of 5.6 per cent.

The largest increase was to the 10-journey Travel 90 ticket, which increased from €19 to €21.50 – a 13.2 per cent hike.

However,I would think that the NTA is now in stand-alone mode and is keen to plough ahead with it's regulatory agenda,which they made far harder for themselves by not grasping the multi-mode issue far earlier.

Overall,Im far more positive about the new scenario than at any time in the recent past...and thats saying a lot !!!!

n97 mini · 02-11-2014 2:19am

Thing that ticks me off the most is that people who don't live in An Lar and don't travel to An Lar are the ones getting rode the most.

Eg someone traveling from Lucan to Greenogue Biz Pk will require 2 buses 13+ stages each, and up to 1.5 hours of their time to travel 4 miles. Something that could be done by car in 10 mins.

Delta2113 · 03-11-2014 12:47am

I presume you still select using the Drivers Ticket Machine or Validator depending on amount of stages?

I can see people just using the Validator.

AlekSmart · 03-11-2014 4:09pm

The NTA has officially announced the Leap90 Travel Discount today,3rd Nov a day later than Dublin Bus (2nd Nov)

From Sunday 2nd November, Leap Card will introduce a new feature when you use a Leap Card to travel on Dublin Bus.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/second-journey-discount-of-e1-00-with-leap-card-on-dublin-bus/

Fair enough sez the public,however they appear to have felt the need to specify a rather restricted outline of the journeys attracting the €1 rebate....

Second journey discount of €1.00 with Leap Card on Dublin Bus

03/11/14
Leap Card users on Dublin Bus services get a €1.00 discount on second Dublin Bus trip – from today
Child Leap Card reduction of 70c on second journey
Discount happens when second trip takes place within 90 minutes of first trip
“Leap 90 Discount” feature will include other transport operators early next year –discounts then will apply when transferring between modes

Compare this with the Dublin Bus announcement....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Leap-90-Discount/

Travel Further for Less - If you pay your bus fare using Travel Credit on your Leap Card, you can now make unlimited bus transfers within 90 minutes and receive a discount on your fare. With ‘Leap 90 Discount’, if you take two or more buses to reach your destination, Leap 90 Discounting will automatically refund you up to €1.00 (€0.70 child fare) to your Leap Card Travel Credit from the second, third or subsequent fares paid.

Worse still,the NTA description appears to acknowledge the restriction here....

The National Transport Authority has announced that from today (November 3, 2014), when a Leap Card user takes two or more Dublin Bus trips within 90 minutes of each other, a “Leap 90 Discount” will be automatically applied to their second bus fare.

There may also be a little divergence of opinion from Leapcard themselves,as their own T's & C's straddle the fence a bit...

https://www.leapcard.ie/en/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

5. Transfer Discounts - Coming Soon
5.1 The Leap Card Travel Credit shall support transfer discounts (when introduced). The Authority shall set the discount amount from time to time.

5.2 If the Leap Card customer has taken a journey (paid for via Travel Credit) and then commences a second journey within 90 minutes of Touching-On (or such other time as the Authority may determine from time to time) upon exit from the first journey, the Leap Card customer ’s Travel Credit shall be charged a discounted rate for the second and subsequent journeys taken that day (provided such journeys are within 90 minutes of the previous journey). The Leap Card customer must continue to Touch-On and Touch-Off (Luas and Irish Rail) for every journey.

It is a small but highly important distinction,as both descriptions can not be correct.

It does point,I suggest,to a certain disconnect between the NTA and Dublin Bus.

Hopefully it is only a matter of an Office Admin person getting confused,but IF the NTA's Press Release stands,then this discount is FAR less attractive than the Travel 90 product it purports to replace.

coylemj · 03-11-2014 4:42pm

Stuff that Leap 90 discount, I bought a few T90 tickets last week off Ticketmaster (no surcharges and free delivery) , they expire in Dec 2015 so I'm all right (for next year anyway) Jack!

Spanish Eyes · 03-11-2014 5:34pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The NTA has officially announced the Leap90 Travel Discount today,3rd Nov a day later than Dublin Bus (2nd Nov)

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/second-journey-discount-of-e1-00-with-leap-card-on-dublin-bus/

Fair enough sez the public,however they appear to have felt the need to specify a rather restricted outline of the journeys attracting the €1 rebate....

Compare this with the Dublin Bus announcement....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Leap-90-Discount/

Worse still,the NTA description appears to acknowledge the restriction here....

There may also be a little divergence of opinion from Leapcard themselves,as their own T's & C's straddle the fence a bit...

https://www.leapcard.ie/en/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

It is a small but highly important distinction,as both descriptions can not be correct.

It does point,I suggest,to a certain disconnect between the NTA and Dublin Bus.

Hopefully it is only a matter of an Office Admin person getting confused,but IF the NTA's Press Release stands,then this discount is FAR less attractive than the Travel 90 product it purports to replace.

Indeed it sounds like the daily DB cap on LEAP would be approaching anyway, (if on the higher fares) if for example you need to take two buses back!

I am very disappointed to note that neither the LEAP nor DB websites have yet been updated to reflect the recent fare changes. Why not?

Does anyone know where I can locate the new fare structure for all modes?

Apologies if I am a bit tired today and missed the obvious!

oops, found the info on another thread in this board. But I should be able to find it on the above sites aswell surely!

Polar101 · 03-11-2014 5:40pm

Well, I'd have tried this today on my way to work, but the 2nd bus didn't run so we had to take a taxi instead. Typical.

Maybe it works better on the way back.

LXFlyer · 03-11-2014 5:51pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Indeed it sounds like the daily DB cap on LEAP would be approaching anyway, (if on the higher fares) if for example you need to take two buses back!

I am very disappointed to note that neither the LEAP nor DB websites have yet been updated to reflect the recent fare changes. Why not?

Does anyone know where I can locate the new fare structure for all modes?

Apologies if I am a bit tired today and missed the obvious!

oops, found the info on another thread in this board. But I should be able to find it on the above sites aswell surely!

The fare changes don't take place until December 1st.

The new Dublin Bus fares are on the Dublin Bus website:
http://dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Revised-fares-from-1st-December-2014/

There are two links on that page to the fares.

Spanish Eyes · 03-11-2014 5:55pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The fare changes don't take place until December 1st.

The new Dublin Bus fares are on the Dublin Bus website:
http://dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Revised-fares-from-1st-December-2014/

There are two links on that page to the fares.

Thanks very much, I didn't see that first time. I did say I was feeling fragile today!

I really thought the fare changes were on 1 November....

I need a holiday!

Polar101 · 04-11-2014 6:12pm

Looks like the €1.00 discount works more than once, I travelled on 3 buses within 90 minutes and trips #2 and #3 were both -€1.00.

Well, this works for me - instead of paying €2.90 to get to work, I'll pay €1.90 (€2.00 soon).

‘Leap From One Bus To The Next And Save Money With ‘Leap 90 Discounting’

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