€100 euro DART fine - Train Early

MysticalSoul · 20-04-2010 3:25pm

BenShermin wrote: »

You wouldn't see them confronting a gang of youths

I saw two youths being arrested at Pearse Street yesterday evening for fare evasion, and giving cheek - the guards were called whilst I was waiting for my train. At a guess they were no more than 12 years old.

BenShermin · 20-04-2010 3:33pm

lord lucan wrote: »

OP should've waited at Tara st. for a Maynooth line service to arrive and then went to the barrier saying he got on at Broombridge.:):)

That's what I'm thinking, how many people try that excuse I wonder.

Mystical, that's good to hear. I haven't travelled on IÉ in a long time so maybe they are stricter on evasion, this certainly isn't the case on Luas though and leads me to believe that it's the same across the network of public transport in this country.

angel01 · 20-04-2010 3:41pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Get up perpetually earlier in case the train driver's watch is fast once a year? Get real!

Who has never had a train arrive early on them only to end up bursting a blood vessel running for it, esp if it's departing from a far platform that requires running across the foot bridge.

Then you wait for the next one

It is no different to going to get a bus or a luas, you wait for the next one, you do not fare evade.

keithclancy · 20-04-2010 4:11pm

murphaph wrote: »

It's even more merciless in Germany OP. I know people who have monthly passes with their name on them aho have been fined when they left their pass in their other pocket. They don't accept ANY excuses and the enforcement is MUCH better than lax IE. I was checked just this morning on the underground...ALWAYS undercover and never any escape. They board in pairs, plain clothed, totally unremarkable looking, one at each end of the carriage and wait until the doors close then produce their ID and work through the carriage towards each other. Anyone who tries to pass the inspector will be challenged for a ticket. People don't even try to escape. As the carrying of ID is (basically) compulsory in Germany, it is highly suspicious if someone denies having ID on them and the police will be called (and will turn up). When penalty fares are issued they are done so in a matter of a minute or so, all done electronically with the offender's ID being logged as evidence.

It is reasonably common to see about 0 or 1 person(s) per full carriage caught during an inspection IME. Quite low rates of evasion I believe, but that's because people know an inspection is likely and never argue the toss when caught, they just accept that they either screwed up (left ticket at home) or got caught red handed. People (even those who are caught) seem to understand that the system has to be pretty inflexible to provide a real deterrent. The oul nod and wink just doesn't cut it here, nor should it in Ireland.

Maybe in Berlin, but not in NRW.

The Ticketing system is so f*cking complicated you can never be sure if you've the correct ticket or not

i.e a 1ER ticket is good for travel for 1 hr in 1 direction but a 3 er is good for two people in one direction for an amount of time depending on what time of the day it is.

Theres a multitude of tickets you can get with varying rules on hours and days.

Also, sometimes you have a ticket already and you don't even know it. When you buy a concert ticket for example, the transport is included in the ticket cost, hence why you see hobos selling them at the Train stations.

In 2 years I've only had my ticket checked once.

Munich is another total f*ck up, i had to ring a mate from Munich in Duesseldorf to ask him which ticket to get to the City Center from the airport.

consultech · 20-04-2010 4:11pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Get up perpetually earlier in case the train driver's watch is fast once a year? Get real!

Who has never had a train arrive early on them only to end up bursting a blood vessel running for it, esp if it's departing from a far platform that requires running across the foot bridge.

I'm as real as they get. So real in fact that I know public transport is occasionally early (but mostly late), so I arrive 5 minutes before the the scheduled departure time. I really don't know what's so hard to grasp about the concept of sensible timekeeping.

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 4:15pm

angel01 wrote: »

Then you wait for the next one It is no different to going to get a bus or a luas, you wait for the next one, you do not fare evade.

You don't wait for the next one if you're going to be late, and/or miss a connection. Simple as.

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 4:16pm

consultech wrote: »

I'm as real as they get. So real in fact that I know public transport is occasionally early (but mostly late), so I arrive 5 minutes before the the scheduled departure time. I really don't know what's so hard to grasp about the concept of sensible timekeeping.

And I'm sure you iron your shirts and make your lunch the night before. Some people lead slightly more chaotic lives, for whatever reason.

angel01 · 20-04-2010 4:22pm

JHMEG wrote: »

You don't wait for the next one if you're going to be late, and/or miss a connection. Simple as.

Well I am afraid you do, if you haven't paid for a ticket, you plan in advance, you make sure you are there in enough time to get a ticket. You get up in enough time. I get to my bus stop at least 5 mins before the bus is due so that I am not late.

You do not fare evade because you were too lazy to be there in enough time.

consultech · 20-04-2010 4:27pm

JHMEG wrote: »

And I'm sure you iron your shirts and make your lunch the night before. Some people lead slightly more chaotic lives, for whatever reason.

...and some of us are just have our lives a little more together than others.

Joey the lips · 20-04-2010 4:28pm

In fairness I dont know anyone who turns up for a train,bus or anypublic transport 2 mins before its scheduled departure.....

But I am sure an apeal might work but not get the nesessary result...

A probable solution would be to check if the platform matches the speaking clock... If its 2mins out you have ground for apeal.

paulm17781 · 20-04-2010 4:28pm

angel01 wrote: »

Well I am afraid you do, if you haven't paid for a ticket, you plan in advance, you make sure you are there in enough time to get a ticket. You get up in enough time. I get to my bus stop at least 5 mins before the bus is due so that I am not late.

You do not fare evade because you were too lazy to be there in enough time.

You're arguing with a mentality that is far too prevalent for my liking. When something bad happens to someone, no matter what they did to deserve it, it is always everyone else's fault.

As above, it seems if you are incapable of ironing a shirt the night before or getting up earlier, then you can do what you like. If you break the law and get caught, it is not your fault.

Yes, I agree it is disgusting that society has come to this.

Ham'nd'egger · 20-04-2010 4:33pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

In fairness I dont know anyone who turns up for a train,bus or anypublic transport 2 mins before its scheduled departure.....

The 20+ people who were ahead of OP in the queue excepted.

Joey the lips · 20-04-2010 4:40pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

The 20+ people who were ahead of OP in the queue excepted.

I dont know anyone...... Yes I use a lot of public transport.

angel01 · 20-04-2010 4:43pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

I dont know anyone...... Yes I use a lot of public transport.

Well you should make it your business to always be there at least 5 mins in advance of the scheduled departure time.

3DataModem · 20-04-2010 4:44pm

Did it arrive early AND leave early?

dearg lady · 20-04-2010 4:44pm

as an aside, I wouldn't recommend giving a false name and address, they might have a Thoms directory to check up!

OP, I have some sympathy reading your post, it's a pretty huge fine, but technically you did break the law, and is there even a small chance you could have been wrong about the time? Also, considering the fact that there was so many people in the queues, would you have made it even if it left two mins later??

ixoy · 20-04-2010 4:47pm

While I have some sympathy for the OP, there is a sign at Portmarnock - clearly visible - saying that you must have a valid ticket before proceeding to the platform.

MysticalSoul · 20-04-2010 4:58pm

If you had missed the 7.27 train, the next one is at 7.34, so would not have been a long wait.

Joey the lips · 20-04-2010 4:58pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

In fairness I dont know anyone who turns up for a train,bus or anypublic transport 2 mins before its scheduled departure.....

But I am sure an apeal might work but not get the nesessary result...

A probable solution would be to check if the platform matches the speaking clock... If its 2mins out you have ground for apeal.

angel01 wrote: »

Well you should make it your business to always be there at least 5 mins in advance of the scheduled departure time.

Like i said i dont know anyone who does not...whats your point....

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 4:58pm

3DataModem wrote: »

Did it arrive early AND leave early?

Once you get on you're hardly gonna get off it again...

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 5:01pm

angel01 wrote: »

Well I am afraid you do, if you haven't paid for a ticket, you plan in advance,

Well I'm afraid I don't plan in advance of the driver's watch being fast. Some people would call that anal.

MysticalSoul · 20-04-2010 5:02pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Once you get on you're hardly gonna get off it again...

The timetabled times are the DEPARTURE times, not the arrival times. A train can arrive at a station any time. I have often got on trains that arrive 5 mins before the scheduled departure, which then wait till the actual scheduled departure time before leaving

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 5:08pm

Absolutely true, but most leave as soon as passengers finish boarding, unless it's actually timetabled to depart at a time later than the arrival.

dowlingm · 20-04-2010 5:53pm

MysticalSoul wrote: »

The timetabled times are the DEPARTURE times, not the arrival times. A train can arrive at a station any time. I have often got on trains that arrive 5 mins before the scheduled departure, which then wait till the actual scheduled departure time before leaving

How do the drivers tell time? Do they rely on their own watches or is there an onboard calibrated clock they go by?

consultech · 20-04-2010 5:56pm

dowlingm wrote: »

How do the drivers tell time? Do they rely on their own watches or is there an onboard calibrated clock they go by?

I would imagine they glance out the window at the centrally-calibrated arrivals board on the platform.

Ham'nd'egger · 20-04-2010 6:23pm

dowlingm wrote: »

How do the drivers tell time? Do they rely on their own watches or is there an onboard calibrated clock they go by?

Drivers of trains on virtually any network will depart when they have a green signal and they are sure that people are clear of the doors regardless of their timetabled times. At some stations or lines there will be staff on the platform that help people to board/alight. Upon signal that it is safe to move off, the driver can then proceed

Most cabs have clocks in them so they have some idea of what time it is; I can't speak of cabs on older locos but I'd assume they have some timepiece. That said, drivers will be able to have a good judge of the time based on the timetable and speeds they are working and experience.

rubberdiddies · 20-04-2010 6:56pm

no ticket = accept the fine. tough.

However.......
If fine arrives in post, can the person just deny it was them at the station that day? Sure anyone can give a name an address of someone they know.

JHMEG · 20-04-2010 7:01pm

consultech wrote: »

I would imagine they glance out the window at the centrally-calibrated arrivals board on the platform.

That's a single incredibly massive point of failure, and for that reason it's highly unlikely.

A_Border_Bandit · 20-04-2010 7:06pm

Tough luck man...

Nuttzz · 20-04-2010 11:38pm

dearg lady wrote: »

as an aside, I wouldn't recommend giving a false name and address, they might have a Thoms directory to check up!

I just rent there, if they radio back to base, DB used to do this.

murphaph · 21-04-2010 8:00am

keithclancy wrote: »

Maybe in Berlin, but not in NRW.

The Ticketing system is so f*cking complicated you can never be sure if you've the correct ticket or not

i.e a 1ER ticket is good for travel for 1 hr in 1 direction but a 3 er is good for two people in one direction for an amount of time depending on what time of the day it is.

Theres a multitude of tickets you can get with varying rules on hours and days.

Also, sometimes you have a ticket already and you don't even know it. When you buy a concert ticket for example, the transport is included in the ticket cost, hence why you see hobos selling them at the Train stations.

In 2 years I've only had my ticket checked once.

Munich is another total f*ck up, i had to ring a mate from Munich in Duesseldorf to ask him which ticket to get to the City Center from the airport.

Berlin leading the way as usual <ahem>. I kniow what you mean about NRW actually, it's probably so complicated because it tries to integrate ticketing for a load of towns and cities with different interests, but Munich I think is very similar to Berlin, with the exception of the strip ticket, which Berlin doesn't bother with (you can buy 4 singles at the same time for a small discount though). I've been to Munich many times and never struggled to understand the ticketing at all

Berlin only has 3 concentric zones, and you can only buy tickets for either AB or BC, the middle zone is always included so it is a touch simpler than Munich in that regard. As for ticket checks, Berlin is possibly a special case, though I have been checked in Munich on more than one occasion and I have never lived there.

I have a monthly ticket in Berlin and it allows me to take my GF or a mate along with me after 8pm mon-fri and all day sat/sun, which saves a fortune actually, probably the order of 15 quid a week on tickets, which adds up! A lot of people (usually foreigners) don't even realise that the monthly ticket allows this, but it's all clearly stated on the website!

Posher · 21-04-2010 10:22am

lord lucan wrote: »

OP should've waited at Tara st. for a Maynooth line service to arrive and then went to the barrier saying he got on at Broombridge.:):)

Or wait for a Dundalk/Drogheda arrival and say they got on at Gormanston. It does open but only on a part time basis. It is usually open on a Monday morning, an odd Tuesday and whatever day of the week the first and second of the month fall on. It only opens from 6.45am to 8.45am when it is open.

Zoney · 21-04-2010 10:47am

murphaph,

I found in Munich that getting *a* ticket wasn't such an issue as understanding the best value ticket. I think in the end getting from airport to city centre for more than one person, it makes sense to get a Partnertageskarte (2-5 people?) or some such for all zones (Gesamtnetwork) - then you have a valid ticket for the next day too (i.e. if buying in the late afternoon/evening having arrived) as it is a 24hr ticket not a "today" ticket iirc.

Anyway it certainly wasn't trivial, especially if trying to decipher the German (think some machines may have had an English option but not all the ones I used did).

However, some people really can't cope with machines. I've had to help people with the Bus Éireann auto ticket machines where you simply say where you want to go (i.e. start typing the name) and pick the placename from the buttons that appear, then pick your ticket type, then pay. In some cases the desired destination is even on the initial screen before you type any letters in! To be honest what I like best about these machines is having a thick card ticket, even better than the ones we used to have before the ridiculous paper tickets they brought in for even return trips. I have more than a few times thrown away a paper return or daysaver ticket for the bus, or stuffed it into a random pocket resulting in a pocket search before my next trip!

As regards Dublin, I find the Luas machines are just deathly slow to change screen after I pick an option! It always takes me an age to get my ticket and I end up feeling like quite a clueless culchie holding up the queue. In fact I hate these machines most apart from Tesco automatic checkouts (their little private piece of hell/1984 - even if they muted the voice it would improve things tenfold!). I prefer waiting in a queue to have a polite and friendly trained checkout operator do their job instead of waiting behind a queue of amateurs as I am brain-washed by the repeating voice until I too can do the supermarket's work for them in an amateur and cumbersome fashion. Sorry... going a bit OT there but automatic machines can be a pain as well as a convenience.

Victor · 21-04-2010 2:52pm

I can't imagine the train leaving early. However, with Clongriffin now open since Monday, some of the flexibility that may have been there is now gone.

rubberdiddies wrote: »

If fine arrives in post, can the person just deny it was them at the station that day? Sure anyone can give a name an address of someone they know.

CCTV?

The denial would need to be under oath in front of a judge.

Zoney wrote: »

As regards Dublin, I find the Luas machines are just deathly slow to change screen after I pick an option! It always takes me an age to get my ticket and I end up feeling like quite a clueless culchie holding up the queue.

Agreed. I find a lot of Luas and DART machines to be tediously slow.

In fact I hate these machines most apart from Tesco automatic checkouts (their little private piece of hell/1984 - even if they muted the voice it would improve things tenfold!). I prefer waiting in a queue to have a polite and friendly trained checkout operator do their job instead of waiting behind a queue of amateurs as I am brain-washed by the repeating voice until I too can do the supermarket's work for them in an amateur and cumbersome fashion. Sorry... going a bit OT there but automatic machines can be a pain as well as a convenience.

Tesco have made some changes, including adjustable audio and have generally speeded things up. The only slow bits left are the 'Finished' button and hte giving of change / receipt.

JHMEG · 21-04-2010 4:23pm

Victor wrote: »

CCTV?

The denial would need to be under oath in front of a judge.

Unlikely to be oaths in a court prosecuting that case.

Posher · 07-05-2010 1:29pm

Posher wrote: »

Or wait for a Dundalk/Drogheda arrival and say they got on at Gormanston. It does open but only on a part time basis. It is usually open on a Monday morning, an odd Tuesday and whatever day of the week the first and second of the month fall on. It only opens from 6.45am to 8.45am when it is open.

I thought I better come back to this thread to report that Gormanston station has been open every morning I've passed through it since I posted this here.:eek: Irish Rail are watching.;)

stryker mcqueen · 30-05-2010 8:41pm

OP I feel your pain , the fine system is a joke , I have been caught twice , first time was 5 years ago , i went to court and explained to the judge the circumstances and it got thrown out ,

More recently though was 4 weeks ago at Pearse st , i was raging and appealed the same day , got my reply on friday , no joy

€100.00 is very steep ! 2 friends work for IR both said my appeal probably wasnt read , I know if i go the court again i will probably be successful , but i have just started a new job so cant really be taking time off to go to court !!

So im prob gonna just pay it !! , €100 in 5c coins from the bank of course , all loose too , no money bags .....yes its immature but i dont care !

Victor · 30-05-2010 8:48pm

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

So im prob gonna just pay it !! , €100 in 5c coins from the bank of course , all loose too , no money bags .....yes its immature but i dont care !

Nobody is obliged to accept anything more than 50 coins.

Captain Chaos · 30-05-2010 8:50pm

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

So im prob gonna just pay it !! , €100 in 5c coins from the bank of course , all loose too , no money bags .....yes its immature but i dont care !

That's illegal too and they can refuse that as payment if they so wish.

stryker mcqueen · 30-05-2010 9:17pm

really ?? ah feck it anyway !!

JHMEG · 30-05-2010 10:13pm

Victor wrote: »

Nobody is obliged to accept anything more than 50 coins.

1. Do you think they know that? (I doubt it)
2. Have you a link to back that up?

teacher30 · 30-05-2010 10:24pm

You have my sympathy - especially as you had the intention to pay. Ignore the nasty replies, some people just love to have a go because they're so frustrated with their own lives / issues!! Definitely appeal. I have literally had to bully my way through situations - and it does work!

Best wishes

Ham'nd'egger · 30-05-2010 10:25pm

JHMEG wrote: »

1. Do you think they know that? (I doubt it)

You can bet your Granny that they do; I'd say they see a dozen souls a day trying that one.

JHMEG wrote: »

2. Have you a link to back that up?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0038/sec0010.html#zza38y1998s10

"No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction."

Cookie_Monster · 31-05-2010 8:52am

Nor do they have to accept notes if the value of the transaction is =<5% of note value
ie if transaction is €5, you can't pay with a €100 note or larger.

dario28 · 31-05-2010 8:56am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's illegal too and they can refuse that as payment if they so wish.

Pay them in stamps....its legal tender (Ricky Gervais - Office - Epsiode Training day)

Ham'nd'egger · 31-05-2010 10:03am

dario28 wrote: »

Pay them in stamps....its legal tender (Ricky Gervais - Office - Epsiode Training day)

They aren't legal tender, Dario so they are not obliged to take them.

dario28 · 31-05-2010 10:17am

Hamndegger wrote: »

They aren't legal tender, Dario so they are not obliged to take them.

Its a joke ya clown---- never heard of ricky gervais or the office !!!!

DAVID:“In fact, a postage stamp is legal tender. A bus driver would have to accept that as currency.”
TIM:“Yeah, that’d happen.”
DAVID:“Well, if he doesn’t, report him.”
TIM:“Yeah, I’ll report him while I’m walking home.”
DAVID:“Get a taxi, if you’ve got enough stamps.”
DAWN:“or cash ‘em in at the Post Office.”
DAVID:“Shouldn’t have to. Shouldn’t have to.”

Calina · 31-05-2010 11:03am

dario28 wrote: »

Its a joke ya clown---- never heard of ricky gervais or the office !!!!

DAVID:“In fact, a postage stamp is legal tender. A bus driver would have to accept that as currency.”
TIM:“Yeah, that’d happen.”
DAVID:“Well, if he doesn’t, report him.”
TIM:“Yeah, I’ll report him while I’m walking home.”
DAVID:“Get a taxi, if you’ve got enough stamps.”
DAWN:“or cash ‘em in at the Post Office.”
DAVID:“Shouldn’t have to. Shouldn’t have to.”

1) please do not call other users names - it's against the charter and we generally frown on it here, and
2) don't assume you've succeeded when you're trying to be funny and humorous because it's not a given.

dario28 · 31-05-2010 11:08am

Calina wrote: »

1) please do not call other users names - it's against the charter and we generally frown on it here, and
2) don't assume you've succeeded when you're trying to be funny and humorous because it's not a given.

Apologies..but on the other hand people calling me a liar throught this 7 pages is fine is it ????

And for all the goodie two shoes, who live in a perfect world where they would never break the law and always arrive for early trains with 5 mins to spare....I got off the fine

For all the supporters of moi..thanks

consultech · 31-05-2010 11:17am

I thought the office reference was funny

I thought I heard somewhere that the limit on coin transactions doesn't apply to fines?

€100 euro DART fine - Train Early

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