Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

molloyjh · 24-01-2020 8:56am

bilston wrote: »

Sure if Kelleher needs Toner then maybe Cooney needs Burns, who in turn needs McCloskey and who could probably do with Addison as well to help him out.

If Kelleher is good enough then he will be grand with whoever Farrell picks in the second row.

To be fair I never said he needs those guys, just that it might work better for guys new in to have experienced guys they are familiar with where possible. I'd have thought that fairly obvious though, no?

kilns · 24-01-2020 9:40am

Clegg wrote: »

Listened to the 42's rugby podcast today. Murray Kinsella was making out that Larmour probably won't be ready for the Scotland game.

He also mentioned a really interesting stat on James Ryan. He's made the most lineout steals of any Irish international this season. Turning into.a very good lineout operator, adding to his world class open field game.

He had the most line out steals at the World cup too

24-01-2020 9:45am

Herring needs more help at the lineout than anyone tbf, Ulster's lineout has been the worst of any province this season comfortably.

mfceiling · 24-01-2020 10:13am

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Herring needs more help at the lineout than anyone tbf, Ulster's lineout has been the worst of any province this season comfortably.

This. Has been shìte when Rory was there too.

jacothelad · 24-01-2020 12:16pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Herring needs more help at the lineout than anyone tbf, Ulster's lineout has been the worst of any province this season comfortably.

It's been awful for years. It often looks as if they have never had any l/o practice. It is the ruination of the prospects of the team. It's a shambles. Is it Herring, the jumpers, the lifters, the lack of wit in calling, lack of invention or all of the above? Answers in a text to Dan McFarland.

24-01-2020 12:23pm

jacothelad wrote: »

It's been awful for years. It often looks as if they have never had any l/o practice. It is the ruination of the prospects of the team. It's a shambles. Is it Herring, the jumpers, the lifters, the lack of wit in calling, lack of invention or all of the above? Answers in a text to Dan McFarland.

I recall thinking after the Ulster v Munster game what the score could have been if Ulster had a functioning lineout. Think we'd a similar story against Clermont, away declined points, went to the corner and lost the lineout. But Herring with Henderson being the senior lock in the team calling the lineout (because Ryan will start) doesn't fill me with confidence.

awec · 24-01-2020 12:34pm

jacothelad wrote: »

It's been awful for years. It often looks as if they have never had any l/o practice. It is the ruination of the prospects of the team. It's a shambles. Is it Herring, the jumpers, the lifters, the lack of wit in calling, lack of invention or all of the above? Answers in a text to Dan McFarland.

I think the whole system is broken. Literally need to go back to basics in training.

I think we're not helped by not really having a lineout specialist anywhere in the pack.

prawnsambo · 24-01-2020 12:45pm

awec wrote: »

I think the whole system is broken. Literally need to go back to basics in training.

I think we're not helped by not really having a lineout specialist anywhere in the pack.

Isn't Henderson a specialist in that area? Seem to recall him having that responsibility when playing for Ireland on a few occasions.

jacothelad · 24-01-2020 1:57pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Isn't Henderson a specialist in that area? Seem to recall him having that responsibility when playing for Ireland on a few occasions.

Apart from Hendo Carter is good but injured. Treadwell is 6'8". O'Connor is 6'5" and not over heavy. Timoney is the ideal lightweight 8 for throwing up quickly. The makings of a functioning l/o has to be there. It just looks naive and shambolic. How often do they throw long and get picked off? They opponents often simply follow where Cooney is. It's as if the opponents know the calls.

mfceiling · 24-01-2020 3:34pm

The amount of times over the years that ulster have had an attacking lineout right on their opponents 5m line and went for some ridiculously complicated manoeuvre, where the ball ended up being thrown directly to the opposition 10 is beyond all comprehension.
You know you have a shìte lineout so throw to 2 and secure possession.
Its really that simple.

Zzippy · 24-01-2020 3:36pm

mfceiling wrote: »

The amount of times over the years that ulster have had an attacking lineout right on their opponents 5m line and went for some ridiculously complicated manoeuvre, where the ball ended up being thrown directly to the opposition 10 is beyond all comprehension.
You know you have a shìte lineout so throw to 2 and secure possession.
Its really that simple.

Except the opposition know that and have someone like POM jumping at the front...

Dubinusa · 24-01-2020 3:49pm

Team I want to see!
1. Healy
2. Effort
3. Porter, deserves his chance
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. J.O.D
7. VDF
8. Doris
9. Cooney
10. Byrne
11 Stockdale
12. McCloskey
13. Ringrose
14. Conway
15. Larmour

16. Kelleher
17. Kilcoyne
18. Furlong
19. Hendo
20. Stander
21. Luke.
22 Burns
23. Addison.

Most likely not even close. But, I would like to see it.
A lot of pundits and others would say to keep the experienced lads in, but the new lads would gain experience by playing. It's a great chance to really move in another direction. More expansive play less static one out runners.
My take is, we know what Aki does, and Henshaw. Let's see what Stu can do. For me. Conway has been the best wing around for quite some time, he starts if fit. Stockdale is coming back around and is playing well. If Larmour is injured, I would have Addison at fb and DK in the 23 shirt.
I think each match should see a couple of changes in the 23. I. E. Sexton starts v England and France. Stander also with Deegan getting the 20 shirt.
Exciting times and a relatively new squad filled with young players.

thegreycity · 24-01-2020 4:26pm

"Johnny, you're my captain. There's no better man to lead this team."
"Brilliant Andy thanks, it's my dream come true. The knee is feeling good too, should be ready for the first game. Gonna be a big moment for me."
"First game? Who said you were getting picked? No way, I'm going with Ross, with Billy on the bench."
"Yea ok boss, doesn't bother me, just let me know when you need me."

shootermacg · 24-01-2020 4:36pm

For my money, you need CJ in the team at six.

He's a leader on the field, constantly screaming encouragement and slapping backs. And his actions speak loud.

If he has a good pack around him with some decent ball carrying threats, you're probably going to see the best six in Irish rugby do his thing.

I remember when PoM was injured at Munster and CJ took over as captain, there was talk of renaming the MotM award the CJ Stander award, because he was literally MotM every game he played.

I'd also love to see him take the captains armband at Munster.

24-01-2020 4:37pm

shootermacg wrote: »

He's a leader on the field, constantly screaming encouragement and slapping backs.

That settles it.

dub_skav · 24-01-2020 4:41pm

Stander would be better off carving out a different trait for himself. He'd only be keeping chief back-slapper warm for James Lowe

Podge_irl · 24-01-2020 4:46pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

That settles it.

James Lowe for 6!

lawrencesummers · 24-01-2020 5:05pm

Killer
Herring
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
POM
VDF
CJ
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Bundee
Henshaw
Conway
Larmer

daddy pig · 24-01-2020 5:28pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Killer
Herring
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
POM
VDF
CJ
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Bundee
Henshaw
Conway
Larmer

Why don't you stick O'Gara at 10 and Hayes at 3 when you're at it.

Clegg · 24-01-2020 5:48pm

If we're doing teams. Going for a pack that offers the most grunt but has footballing ability. Gone with Kelleher because I don't think Herring or Scannell are good enough to be test players and we may as well go with the young prospect. Was very tempted to go have Toner in the squad, but he's a starter only. He's an excellent ball player but we need to give the Henderson/Ryan pairing more of a chance to develop. Dillane is more impactful off the bench. Same story with POM. If he doesn't start then he isn't in the squad at all. And he's not playing well enough to merit a start. I'd go for Larmour at 15 but he's injured. However, if he recovers then slot him to 15 and Addison to the bench.

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Stander
VDF
Doris
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Addison

Kilcoyne
Herring
Porter
Dillane
Deegan
Murray
Byrne
Henshaw

salmocab · 24-01-2020 5:50pm

Clegg wrote: »

If we're doing teams. Going for a pack that offers the most grunt but has footballing ability. Gone with Kelleher because I don't think Herring or Scannell are good enough to be test players and we may as well go with the young prospect. Was very tempted to go have Toner in the squad, but he's a starter only. He's an excellent ball player but we need to give the Henderson/Ryan pairing more of a chance to develop. Dillane is more impactful off the bench. Same story with POM. If he doesn't start then he isn't in the squad at all. And he's not playing well enough to merit a start. I'd go for Larmour at 15 but he's injured. However, if he recovers then slot him to 15 and Addison to the bench.

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Stander
VDF
Doris
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Addison

Kilcoyne
Herring
Porter
Dillane
Deegan
Murray
Byrne
Henshaw

I’d say this is very close, I’d suspect Deegan ahead of Doris, don’t think Kelliher will start purely because he’s been out.

Shefwedfan · 24-01-2020 6:19pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Killer
Herring
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
POM
VDF
CJ
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Bundee
Henshaw
Conway
Larmer

If this is the line up I think a huge question mark will be put over Farrell without the ball even getting kicked

car_radio19834 · 24-01-2020 6:48pm

Has there even been any indication from Farrell on the style of rugby he's going to play?

He hasn't been a head coach for a long time and if it goes bad he won't get the chance again.

Think of it this way. You're Andy Farrell, part of Joe Schmidts boring style but you're seen as very successful.

Would you stick with what you know? Or risk more expansive and potentially embarrass yourself? Andy Farrell personally would jump at the chance to replicate the last 6 years even though world cups are disappointing.

I think it'll be the same old boring rugby and then against Italy and the likes we'll throw it around and people will claim he's doing great and playing more expansive despite us doing that under Joe anyways.

Neil3030 · 24-01-2020 7:13pm

I wonder how much of Farrell's decision process will be skewed by how well players fit his defensive system over everything else. It's fairly unavoidable that he might have some slight bias in this regard.

So wouldn't at all surprise me to see lads in the starting XV who aren't setting the world on fire in attack, set piece, etc.

24-01-2020 7:43pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

I wonder how much of Farrell's decision process will be skewed by how well players fit his defensive system over everything else. It's fairly unavoidable that he might have some slight bias in this regard.

So wouldn't at all surprise me to see lads in the starting XV who aren't setting the world on fire in attack, set piece, etc.

Our defence has been rubbish for 12 months so hopefully it's not what he's picking anyone on.

prawnsambo · 24-01-2020 7:52pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Our defence has been rubbish for 12 months so hopefully it's not what he's picking anyone on.

It was excellent after he took over as defence coach though.

The Rape of Lucretia · 24-01-2020 8:01pm

car_radio19834 wrote: »

Has there even been any indication from Farrell on the style of rugby he's going to play?

Will surely have learned from Uncle Joe's mistake of reducing our use of the kick which brough him so much success, and showed England the way to success. He needs to prove himself as a head coach so will be going for wins rather than pandering to the masses with flashy but losing play style. Kick downfield from your own half. Kick chase as much as possible. Kick for the touchline if in the opposition half. Crossfield kicks as a main feature rather an a rogue variation. And pick you team to do that. Byrne could be more than a factor than people assume. Dave and Conway the prime targets.

Neil3030 · 24-01-2020 8:03pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Our defence has been rubbish for 12 months so hopefully it's not what he's picking anyone on.

Well that speaks to a wider problem, i.e., that the specialist area of our new head coach is now either obsolete or couldn't be implemented.

stephen_n · 24-01-2020 8:24pm

Easterby is defence coach now.

lawrencesummers · 24-01-2020 8:57pm

daddy pig wrote: »

Why don't you stick O'Gara at 10 and Hayes at 3 when you're at it.

They retired a long time ago.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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