Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

How clean is football?

13»

Comments

  • #102
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    Well that's your choice. Guardiola didn't claim anything like eating bad beef, he claims that the test picking up on the substance that was naturally produced in his body, this is absolutely medically possible, of that there is no doubt.

    It has to be possible, or he wouldn't be acquitted, but what are the chances of it occurring to that level, in him? His lawyers don't have to prove that, but if it occurred in any human to that level, they can use that as basis for acquittal.

    If anything else could cause the test results, however minuscule, the lawyers win.


  • #103
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    It has to be possible, or he wouldn't be acquitted, but what are the chances of it occurring to that level, in him? His lawyers don't have to prove that, but if it occurred in any human to that level, they can use that as basis for acquittal.

    If anything else could cause the test results, however minuscule, the lawyers win.

    Well the article that I quoted does say that it's possible that something is/was wrong with the testing process. It's important to remember that we are referring back to the year 2001 and it's possible that knowledge of this substance or the testing of it were not as advanced.

    At the end of the day your left with an upstanding character whose story checks out and who was cleared. That's it.


  • #104
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    Well the article that I quoted does say that it's possible that something is/was wrong with the testing process. It's important to remember that we are referring back to the year 2001 and it's possible that knowledge of this substance or the testing of it were not as advanced.

    At the end of the day your left with an upstanding character whose story checks out and who was cleared. That's it.

    I wouldn't say anyone with two failed drugs tests is an upstanding character.

    They always go after the testing process, its the easiest to get an acquittal on,after that prove an alternate way to get the same result, that doesn't violate the rules.


  • #105
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    I believe that first quote comes from a cellmate of Nunez, your going to have to excuse me if I don't believe that to be the most reliable source, especially if you are claiming that it is this source that is the central reason why we should doubt these Spanish players.

    I'm not claiming that should be the central reason for anything. I just asked your opinion on it, as you seem to be certain that football is clean.


  • #106
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Turns out the thread really wanted to be called How Clean is Guardiola?


  • #107
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Arghus wrote: »
    Turns out the thread really wanted to be called How Clean is Guardiola.

    I don't have any beef with him at all.


  • #108
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Often anyone that's going to speak out is discredited and degenerated by the system to make their testimony unbelievable and untrustworthy


  • #109
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    #15 wrote: »
    I'm not claiming that should be the central reason for anything. I just asked your opinion on it, as you seem to be certain that football is clean.

    I'm not saying no footballer has ever taken PEDs to gain an advantage, I am simply saying that these conspiracies where it relates to Barcelona are exactly that, conspiracies.


  • #110
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    I'm not saying no footballer has ever taken PEDs to gain an advantage, I am simply saying that these conspiracies where it relates to Barcelona are exactly that, conspiracies.

    So no Barca player has ever taken PEDs is your belief?


  • #111
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    I couldn't say that of any Arsenal or Ireland player, I think I'd be naive to do so.


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    So no Barca player has ever taken PEDs is your belief?

    I believe innocent until proven guilty and no Barcelona player who played under Guardiola or Enrique have been found guilty of taking PEDs and I absolutely believe that the smear campaign against the club has been nothing short of disgraceful and I have no respect for anyone who pushes that smear campaign.


  • #113
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    I believe innocent until proven guilty and no Barcelona player who played under Guardiola or Enrique have been found guilty of taking PEDs and I absolutely believe that the smear campaign against the club has been nothing short of disgraceful and I have no respect for anyone who pushes that smear campaign.

    So Michelle Smith legitimately won those medals for Ireland in Atlanta and OJ didn't murder his wife.


  • #114
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    When is it a smear campaign and when is it a search for the truth? Didn't Lance Armstrong have an awful smear campaign against him...


  • #115
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    So Michelle Smith legitimately won those medals for Ireland in Atlanta and OJ didn't murder his wife.

    How can you equate the two? What evidence is there of Barcelona doping? Yes Nunez was a doctor at the club, so what? He's worked with other clubs too and there's not one bit of concrete evidence about him doing anything untoward during his time at Barcelona. What else is there that you can actually link the OJ case with Barcelona doping? What's the argument? Where are the facts? You know what the truth is? The truth is that Guardiola's Barcelona team is the best football team that's ever existed, better than any other team that went before it, better than the rivals of its time, it was the best and this complete fabrication was created by those who were bitter and who resented the success of Barcelona. It is a lie.


  • #116
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    How can you equate the two? What evidence is there of Barcelona doping? Yes Nunez was a doctor at the club, so what? He's worked with other clubs too and there's not one bit of concrete evidence about him doing anything untoward during his time at Barcelona. What else is there that you can actually link the OJ case with Barcelona doping? What's the argument? Where are the facts? You know what the truth is? The truth is that Guardiola's Barcelona team is the best football team that's ever existed, better than any other team that went before it, better than the rivals of its time, it was the best and this complete fabrication was created by those who were bitter and who resented the success of Barcelona. It is a lie.

    You said innocent until proven guilty, neither of those were proven guilty in those cases, so it follows.


  • #117
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    How can you equate the two? What evidence is there of Barcelona doping? Yes Nunez was a doctor at the club, so what? He's worked with other clubs too and there's not one bit of concrete evidence about him doing anything untoward during his time at Barcelona. What else is there that you can actually link the OJ case with Barcelona doping? What's the argument? Where are the facts? You know what the truth is? The truth is that Guardiola's Barcelona team is the best football team that's ever existed, better than any other team that went before it, better than the rivals of its time, it was the best and this complete fabrication was created by those who were bitter and who resented the success of Barcelona. It is a lie.


    I imagined your head exploding as I read the last few lines....


  • #118
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    You said innocent until proven guilty, neither of those were proven guilty in those cases, so it follows.

    By that logic, 9/11 was an inside job and the moon landing was a hoax eh?


  • #119
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    I imagined your head exploding as I read the last few lines....

    My head remains very much intact, however my eyes do not as they can no longer combat the forces of sleep but I will be back again in the morning!


  • #120
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Oh man...


  • Advertisement
  • #121
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    By that logic, 9/11 was an inside job and the moon landing was a hoax eh?

    They were never on trial, you are not following logic here...

    Anyway I heard Pep arranged the two towers to be blown up to distract from all his drug taking.... Lol


  • #122
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    This thread had potential to be very interesting. Instead it's gotten incredibly stupid. I'm out.


  • #123
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Would people have a problem with doping if it wasn't against the rules?

    I personally would have no issue with it and as long as the players are aware of what they are taking then let them take whatever drugs they want.Soccer is just a form of entertainment and the idea that there is fairness in the game to start with when there is such disparity in the amount of money teams spend (yet compete in the same competitions) means that any argument that it is unfair is just hollow as the whole game is unfair in the way it is run and nobody really has an issue with that or even attempts to do anything about it.


  • #124
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,403 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Nope, let them at it. Elite sport has nothing to do with health or fairness.


  • #125
    Paz-CCFC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭Paz-CCFC


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Would people have a problem with doping if it wasn't against the rules?

    I personally would have no issue with it and as long as the players are aware of what they are taking then let them take whatever drugs they want.Soccer is just a form of entertainment and the idea that there is fairness in the game to start with when there is such disparity in the amount of money teams spend (yet compete in the same competitions) means that any argument that it is unfair is just hollow as the whole game is unfair in the way it is run and nobody really has an issue with that or even attempts to do anything about it.

    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Nope, let them at it. Elite sport has nothing to do with health or fairness.

    Good points. Some of the arguments are based on levelling the playing field. But, as suggested, the huge amount of money knocks it off balance. Players with more money can buy better equipment, clubs can afford better training grounds, cyclists can buy better bicycles etc. Is engineering or technology ruining the sport, if substances are? The health argument doesn't stand up either, because players can play on with injuries, often severely aggravating them. Players can take other supplements, which though legal, still adversely affect their health.

    If a CEO candidate going for a 6 figure job takes beta blockers to calm his nerves going into an interview and wins, that's fine. There's no talk of performance enhancing drugs ruining the world of business, even if it gives him a clear advantage. If a footballer takes the same drug before a penalty shootout to calm his nerves or an archer takes it before a competition, they're banned from their profession for two years.


  • #126
    Winston Payne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Winston Payne


    You don't fix problems by adding to them. I'm pretty surprised that people who are ostensibly fans of the sport are free enough saying that the health of players is of no concern to them. Players playing on with injuries is wrong. Football's concussion rules are wrong. I couldn't in good conscience say "Fire away there and boost up on whatever you want because it provides me with entertainment" while knowing that it could lead to heart failure or a stroke a few decades down the line.


  • Advertisement
  • #127
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,403 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Winston Payne wrote: »
    You don't fix problems by adding to them. I'm pretty surprised that people who are ostensibly fans of the sport are free enough saying that the health of players is of no concern to them. Players playing on with injuries is wrong. Football's concussion rules are wrong. I couldn't in good conscience say "Fire away there and boost up on whatever you want because it provides me with entertainment" while knowing that it could lead to heart failure or a stroke a few decades down the line.

    The vast majority of players will still choose to play now even if they were assured of heart failure / stroke in their late forties and we're all still going to watch. I'm just trying to be realistic about where we are with doping in sport.


  • #128
    AdamD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,729 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Concussion just isn't an issue in football. People lost their **** after the Lloris incident but it's so damn rare in the sport.


  • #129
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Winston Payne wrote: »
    You don't fix problems by adding to them. I'm pretty surprised that people who are ostensibly fans of the sport are free enough saying that the health of players is of no concern to them. Players playing on with injuries is wrong. Football's concussion rules are wrong. I couldn't in good conscience say "Fire away there and boost up on whatever you want because it provides me with entertainment" while knowing that it could lead to heart failure or a stroke a few decades down the line.

    Once the players know what they are taking and are aware of the potential side affects then there is nothing really wrong.If they want to take that risk then that is their choice.


  • #130
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Once the players know what they are taking and are aware of the potential side affects then there is nothing really wrong.If they want to take that risk then that is their choice.

    If it was legal in the sport it wouldn't be a choice, it would be as necessary to succeed as turning up to training.


  • #131
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    dont know why its not allowed to aid in recovery from injuries , declare it ,with a cut off point on taking them ,be tested one week before your clubs next game you could play in..if your clean then you can play,if not,wait another week etc .. to coincide with with standard testing which already occurs.

    careers could be saved maybe


  • Advertisement
  • #132
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,755 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Is football clean? Is this a serious question?

    This is a game which takes as normal the feigning of injury to get an opponent sent off. Players always stick their hands up for offside/throw in even when they know it isn't. Will conceal a handball once the ref doesn't spot it to get a goal. Diving is now seen as an integral part of the game.

    Managers attempt to bias referees in the hope of future gains. Rules of transfers are routinely broken (tapping up I think its called). We have seen in Italy the bribing of refs. WC bids are known to be corrupt.

    Players suffering from serious injuries receive injections to help them play.

    But people here think that players and clubs are not going to take something to help them train more, run faster, last longer? The length and skill involved in a sport plays a large part in doping, but money plays a big role as well. And football is now all about money.


  • #133
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    Does anyone really believe that Rio Ferdinand just "forgot" to show up for his drug test appointment?

    I always thought it was recreational drugs that was suspected in that case.


  • #134
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    Andersonisgod wrote: »
    I believe innocent until proven guilty and no Barcelona player who played under Guardiola or Enrique have been found guilty of taking PEDs and I absolutely believe that the smear campaign against the club has been nothing short of disgraceful and I have no respect for anyone who pushes that smear campaign.

    Hang on there AIG.

    Barca have a working relationship with a doctor who's at the cutting edge of doping, juicing up Spanish athletes left right and centre...

    ...and you say it's a smear campaign.

    The idea they didn't know exactly what his area of expertise was is totally laughable.

    Don't be so naive as to say it's coincindental, there's a possible medical explination, or base your ideas on the 'Italian authorities'.

    Obviously you'll never believe it but don't get so outraged when people jump to a very very obvious conclusion.


  • #135
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Is football clean? Is this a serious question?

    This is a game which takes as normal the feigning of injury to get an opponent sent off. Players always stick their hands up for offside/throw in even when they know it isn't. Will conceal a handball once the ref doesn't spot it to get a goal. Diving is now seen as an integral part of the game.

    Managers attempt to bias referees in the hope of future gains. Rules of transfers are routinely broken (tapping up I think its called). We have seen in Italy the bribing of refs. WC bids are known to be corrupt.

    Players suffering from serious injuries receive injections to help them play.

    But people here think that players and clubs are not going to take something to help them train more, run faster, last longer? The length and skill involved in a sport plays a large part in doping, but money plays a big role as well. And football is now all about money.

    This is the point. Very little these players do nowadays is 'natural'. Te line must be very blurred between what is and isn't illegal.

    The football authorities clearly don't want to catch it either.


  • #136
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,310 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    efb wrote: »
    So no Barca player has ever taken PEDs is your belief?
    It's funny, someone randomly picks (as randomly as you can pick one of the most sucessful clubs in the world) a club to support, so they have to pretend that club does nothing wrong, no matter what. I personally think the Barcalona links with Qatar, and the trips to Uzbekistan under the disguise of "more than a club" is as sickening as the drug allegations.
    It's ok to admit your club, or a player you like has done something wrong.


  • #137
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Cienciano wrote: »
    It's funny, someone randomly picks (as randomly as you can pick one of the most sucessful clubs in the world) a club to support, so they have to pretend that club does nothing wrong, no matter what. I personally think the Barcalona links with Qatar, and the trips to Uzbekistan under the disguise of "more than a club" is as sickening as the drug allegations.
    It's ok to admit your club, or a player you like has done something wrong.
    Yeeeaaahhhh... you clearly don't know Andersonisgod. :pac:


  • #138
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Yeeeaaahhhh... you clearly don't know Andersonisgod. :pac:

    Yeah, yesterday this was a 3 page fairly pedestrian thread.

    Logged in there to see nine pages and wondered what the hell happened.

    Then I remembered someone mentioned Barca.


  • #139
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,735 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    gosplan wrote: »
    Yeah, yesterday this was a 3 page fairly pedestrian thread.

    Logged in there to see nine pages and wondered what the hell happened.

    Then I remembered someone mentioned Barca.

    You need to change your posts per page!


  • #140
    Andersonisgod
    Registered Users Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭Andersonisgod


    efb wrote: »
    They were never on trial, you are not following logic here...

    Anyway I heard Pep arranged the two towers to be blown up to distract from all his drug taking.... Lol

    9/11 did have a commission report published I think though.

    To be honest, given the stuff Marca usually publish that story wouldn't seem out of place at all.


  • #141
    aodea
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭aodea


    I think its a certainty that drug use in Football is wide spread.

    You can see transformations in body's that are ignored that in other sports would be looked at. Footballers like most athletes will look to gain an edge. The league 1 player will look for the edge to make him a championship player, a championship player may look for the edge to make him an international or a prem player.

    The sheer lack of numbers suggests to me that testing is either not up to scratch or is just not looked at close enough. Most positives for drugs in Football seem to be recreational drugs.

    The sheer lack of any high profile positive results suggests to me that its a testing problem.


  • Advertisement
  • #142
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    aodea wrote: »
    I think its a certainty that drug use in Football is wide spread.

    You can see transformations in body's that are ignored that in other sports would be looked at. Footballers like most athletes will look to gain an edge. The league 1 player will look for the edge to make him a championship player, a championship player may look for the edge to make him an international or a prem player.

    The sheer lack of numbers suggests to me that testing is either not up to scratch or is just not looked at close enough. Most positives for drugs in Football seem to be recreational drugs.

    The sheer lack of any high profile positive results suggests to me that its a testing problem.

    A piece I linked to at the start of this article goes into urine testing and how weak it is. No footballers ever get bloods done.

    They're not trying to catch people.


Advertisement