Louis Theroux - Mothers on the Edge

I've had PND/A since the very traumatic birth of my second son in early February 2018. It's **** and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I haven't had any issues bonding with him but I had to stop breastfeeding earlier than I would have originally planned to so I could double my meds.

A certain percentage of men *do* have mental health issues following the birth of their children, it's not as high as the percentage of mothers with PND and it's obviously not hormone fuelled but it is a thing. My husband has struggled with anxiety after both births.

Haven't seen the documentary. A bit too close to home!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Having read through the thread, I’d imagine he’s not the least bit bothered by it. It just seems to be a disingenuous attempt to point-score about “gender equality” :rolleyes:

I haven’t seen the documentary but tbh I wouldn’t be too interested in watching it or having “conversations” about it. It’s just my own personal take on these types of documentaries but I think they exploit vulnerable people’s personal circumstances and are often more divisive than they are in any way supportive - in this particular case of women experiencing postpartum psychosis which is far more rare than postpartum depression.

Yes I pretty much agree with all of that (there's a first!) and I also find myself rather torn about these sorts of documentaries about very ill people in general. There are so many ways that participating in a programme like this can harm them, and very few ways in which it can help them - although I suppose the informational aspect of telling people that this exists may count in its favour. And Theroux, unlike Jeremy Kyle :mad: seems to manage to be humane about/toward the people he interviews. Still there's a voyeuristic element to it.

I was also struck by his need to reassure himself that all these women did actually love their children. That was a really significant point, IMO, about how ill-at-ease society is with mothers who fail to fit into our model of motherhood,and it was barely reflected on at all. Louis Theroux could accept that they were ill, which is progress compared to how such women were treated in the past of course, but he couldn't accept the woman's own assertion that she didn't feel any love for her baby son, and couldn't allow her to say so without contradicting her. It clearly troubled him too much to just listen.

Given some of the extremists he has interviewed without ever needing to "put them right" it's really striking that he needed to do so with her.

volchitsa wrote: »

Yes I pretty much agree with all of that (there's a first!) and I also find myself rather torn about these sorts of documentaries about very ill people in general. There are so many ways that participating in a programme like this can harm them, and very few ways in which it can help them - although I suppose the informational aspect of telling people that this exists may count in its favour. And Theroux, unlike Jeremy Kyle :mad: seems to manage to be humane about/toward the people he interviews. Still there's a voyeuristic element to it.

I was also struck by his need to reassure himself that all these women did actually love their children. That was a really significant point, IMO, about how ill-at-ease society is with mothers who fail to fit into our model of motherhood,and it was barely reflected on at all. Louis Theroux could accept that they were ill, which is progress compared to how such women were treated in the past of course, but he couldn't accept the woman's own assertion that she didn't feel any love for her baby son, and couldn't allow her to say so without contradicting her. It clearly troubled him too much to just listen.

Given some of the extremists he has interviewed without ever needing to "put them right" it's really striking that he needed to do so with her.

I agree with much of this . Normally I find Louis very objective and his modus operandi is to stand back and listen . But as you say he seemed to struggle with some of the truths he heard .
It also struck me that he almost seemed to be a little patronising when he took the crying baby to comfort it . Having said all that it must be very hard to stand by and not reach out to a needy baby .
The lady who went home to her three small children seemed to be really struggling and I thought it sweet that Louis fed the toddler for her .
The six year old girl knew her mum was different and my heart went out to her .

There's a woman in my department who completed her PhD with four children. That's an inspiration to us all I think and I told her as much yesterday.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You're in cloud cuckoo land Susie. Take a walk around any of the less salubrious areas of Dublin for example and see for yourself the kids being dragged up by absolute wastes of space. Drunks, junkies, recidivist criminals and so on - pure wasters. The kids don't stand a chance, and social services are certainly not riding to their rescue!

There is zero possibility of anybody causing serious trouble for anyone else by merely saying they're overly fond of the drink or something like that.

My impression is that it is more about how random it is, that while you are right that many children are so badly cared for that they might well be better off in care, but when a woman comes under the notice of the authorities, then it can be very difficult for her to admit to any failings without risking setting off the trigger of removal.

There's a rather sad couple of posts on here on one of the recent pregnancy threads, where in the middle of all the happy posts, there is one expectant mum who describes her fear of not being able to look after the future baby but that she feels she can't ask for help IRL because of having had contact with Tusla over (past) issues of addiction. The reality is that she is probably not wrong - the first reaction of any social worker there is very likely to be to consider taking the children away.

Because she's an easy target, unlike, say, families where the father is dangerous and therefore scary to social workers too (I know one family where the social workers were always accompanied by the police when they visited, yet the children were left in that environment) and also because if anything did go wrong, the social worker who left the children with her would be crucified in the press. Much easier to remove them first and deal with any resulting issues after.

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's a woman in my department who completed her PhD with four children. That's an inspiration to us all I think and I told her as much yesterday.

Yeh maybe , maybe not . We all struggle in our own way , maybe she had huge support , maybe her partner stayed at home . Maybe she had an au pair , maybe her kids are amazing and well balanced and there again maybe not

Equally a mother on low income who manages the daily struggle and feeds and clothes and loves her kids is just as much to be admired

LouD2016 wrote: »

Exactly, there is so much pressure put on new mother's especially it's easy to see how so many struggle.

To me my child's happiness is paramount. I measure my success in that now.

Mine too , and they are fine , kind , hard working , caring adults and thats my claim to success

Lillyfae wrote: »

It was just a remark, I don't know how you figure that it's offensive to others to give praise to someone because of an achievement like that?? Maybe she had mental health issues, marriage breakdown, sick child etc etc etc and still completed the PhD. I myself went through huge adversity while writing a thesis and am proud of myself for not throwing in the towel. I always find it as a great source of comfort and strength in the days that I'm struggling to cope to think of what I achieved in spite of everything.

Which is why I wrote , maybe , maybe not .The info we got is she did a PhD with four kids .
I have seen so many inspirational women who care for sick children and give up everything to care for them .So many women who have children who are totally dependent on them and still manage to smile and be the best they can be .
Women who struggled with PND and who managed each day to put the baby first . Women who care for a disabled child and still arrive with the other three kids in the school yard all washed and fed and ready for school

So many women are an inspiration to me bu. Just simply having a PhD does not elevate anyone in my eyes . If there is more to her story well and good but all we got was she has a PhD

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's a woman in my department who completed her PhD with four children. That's an inspiration to us all I think and I told her as much yesterday.

i think that a statement like this would make a lot of mums feel inadequate.

"I admire this lady I know who has 4 kids and managed to get a Phd" is not the same thing as "any mother of 4 who doesn't have a Phd is clearly just not performing".

sbsquarepants wrote: »

"I admire this lady I know who has 4 kids and managed to get a Phd" is not the same thing as "any mother of 4 who doesn't have a Phd is clearly just not performing".

I am sure it wasn't meant as a slight on anyone but it is in a thread about women struggling with post natal problems

Lillyfae wrote: »

Someone who does a PhD or has a job while being a mother doesn't make them exempt from serious mental health issues, believe me. In my case, it is almost impossible to notice I'm struggling until after I've fallen off the edge of the cliff. My point is that you can be coming from any position and struggle. I'm constantly being knocked by other mothers who don't work when I would never pass any remark/ judgement on what they do or don't do. I'm sick of hearing about how their priority is their child's happiness- like that's a lower priority on the list for me or something :mad:.

Oh I get that completely, I'm a working mother too for one thing, and perhaps more strikingly again, so was my own mother, back in the day when it was unusual for married women to have anything more than a part-time job. I remember when she retired, some of our neighbours making comments to her like "What will you do with yourself all day"" - I said to her "You should have said, the same as you've been doing for the last 20 years since your children left home!" but of course she never did!

All the same, that original comment (not your reply) struck me as unfortunate.
Because of the thread it's on, and because of the judgmental stereotypes I mentioned just now.

But as I say, I don't want to sidetrack the discussion of Louis Theroux's program into yet more judgmentalism about women and motherhood.

Lillyfae wrote: »

You're again exempting the woman with 4 children a a PhD from having mental illness- maybe someone telling her how much they admire her got her through that day- I know if someone praised me like that it would definitely give me a boost during a difficult period.

I'm hardly going to invent a scenario that isn't in the post?

If the poster comes back and tells us that she had four children and a mental illness, and still did a PhD, then we can consider that if you want and say how amazing it is.

It's still irrelevant to the actual topic here all the same.

(You know she isn't actually on the thread, this woman, right?)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The TV programme was about post natal depression and psychosis . No idea where you get the support group from ?

Yes. And this is a thread discussing that show.

That's my point!

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Yes. And this is a thread discussing that show.

That's my point!

A show about how perfectly healthy women can suddenly and disastrously fall apart after childbirth, and how difficult it is for them and their families to cope with that for all sorts of reasons.

Not a show about parenting with a PhD. :rolleyes:

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The poster in no way intended to upset anyone, he didn't put down or denigrate anybody, he said he found a woman he worked with inspirational - that's all. And fair play to him.

There's absolutely no need for anyone to be seizing the high ground and berating him for risking harm to fragile women in precarious positions. He said nothing wrong.

I repeat, this is nothing more than a general chit chat about a television show, which went on harmless little tangent.

No, you are wrong! This is the Internet! You couldn't understand the far reaching consequences of a thread on boards.ie.

LouD2016 wrote: »

The main point of starting this thread was to see if there were centres like the one featured in this show in Ireland and about the women in the programme.

It wasn't to start a competition on who's better than who but thanks for the input

I very much doubt that there are any in Ireland to be honest . One thing I didn't catch though were they private or NHS units in the programme ?
I imagine women here would be admitted to pyschiatric hospitals and not dedicated mother and baby units . The HSE has an awful lot to learn and are failing our most vulnerable all the time

vicwatson wrote: »

Don’t be silly, of course they can, but the documentary focused on postpartum depression which is not for men

And Yorkie's not for girls..... what's your point?

P.S the internet disagrees with you

http://postpartummen.com/

LouD2016 wrote: »

Without being rude what has that go to do with things?

Obviously fair play to her that is amazing.

Women suffering from PND/PNP don't choose to have it and im sure they would love to be back working and juggling kids and households but they simply cant.

Some days having a shower is an achievement and that is ok too.

Say the woman you work with is an inspiration is slightly offensive as there are women, who would love to be that capable, but down to their mental health just cant.

We cant all be superwomen.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yeh maybe , maybe not . We all struggle in our own way , maybe she had huge support , maybe her partner stayed at home . Maybe she had an au pair , maybe her kids are amazing and well balanced and there again maybe not

Equally a mother on low income who manages the daily struggle and feeds and clothes and loves her kids is just as much to be admired

Guys I feel you're way off the mark here. By praising one mother I admire I'm not putting down others. The woman was doing a PhD and gave birth to kids during that time. The stress she suffered was unbelievable. A PhD is one of the most stressful things you can do and she certainly experienced stress, depression and guilt that she was making life harder on her kids. I gave her a little boost because she was inspiring to me. How can that be taken as a bad thing towards anyone else?

volchitsa wrote: »

A show about how perfectly healthy women can suddenly and disastrously fall apart after childbirth, and how difficult it is for them and their families to cope with that for all sorts of reasons.

Not a show about parenting with a PhD. :rolleyes:

I am posting in a thread about a woman I know who did one of the most stressful things you can do with four kids. The thread I'm posting in is about mothers who are on the edge mentally. Why the attacking attitude?