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Did you know it was National Famine Commemoration Day today?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I always think of Eavan Boland's poem from the Leaving Cert w/ regards to the famine and Trevelyan.

    I absolutely love that poem.
    The Relief Committee deliberated: “Might it be safe,
    Colonel, to give them roads, roads to force
    From nowhere, going nowhere of course?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    que pasa wrote: »
    I agree. Ireland should take the same approach as Germany does with Holocaust deniers.

    Nobody is denying there was a famine.
    Nobody is denying the UK Governments response was shamefully inadequate.
    What some of us are denying is the simplistic claim that it was a genocide which was all the fault of the then UK Government.
    Many of the landowners, and their agents were Irish, many of those who profited from both exporting foodstuffs and indeed importing foodstuffs were Irish.
    There is a big difference between a holocaust denier and somebody who refuses the childishly simplistic claims of genocide with regard to the famine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Nobody is denying there was a famine.
    Nobody is denying the UK Governments response was shamefully inadequate.
    What some of us are denying is the simplistic claim that it was a genocide which was all the fault of the then UK Government.
    Many of the landowners, and their agents were Irish, many of those who profited from both exporting foodstuffs and indeed importing foodstuffs were Irish.
    There is a big difference between a holocaust denier and somebody who refuses the childishly simplistic claims of genocide with regard to the famine.
    Can you point to a single famine in history that was not political?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭willfarmerman


    Can you point to a single famine in history that was not political?

    If it it were English peasant poor in similar circumstances I'm not sure it would of been handled much differently. They were tough times to be poor in any part of Europe. We have had enough simplistic anti British sentiment in the country over the years. Yes this terrible event in history needs to be commemorated but you cannot extract apologies from dead men. Those English lords and politicians are long since passed. And just a small observation. In my own parish the local Catholic Church, which is easily 3 times the size of the local church of ireland, was built in 1848.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    The famine victims didn't perish for lack of food, oh and the starvation was met with quite a bit of quasi-genocidal, racist, glee by those who had the power to ameliorate it.

    You should read this.

    http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/Famine#PoliticalEconomymarketeconomicsandtheFamine

    Victim blaming would be blaming the starving people for their own plight. Not all Irish people were starving, in fact many looked to exploit the situation for their own ends.

    Blaming the British government and calling it genocide excuses the actions of those that helped increase the effects of the famine for the sake of profit. the British government should have acted and should be rightly blamed for that, but they weren't the ones stock piling imports, or exporting food. That was contrary to the (failed) policy of free trade.

    But, of course, you knew tbat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Nobody is denying there was a famine.
    Nobody is denying the UK Governments response was shamefully inadequate.
    What some of us are denying is the simplistic claim that it was a genocide which was all the fault of the then UK Government.
    Many of the landowners, and their agents were Irish, many of those who profited from both exporting foodstuffs and indeed importing foodstuffs were Irish.
    There is a big difference between a holocaust denier and somebody who refuses the childishly simplistic claims of genocide with regard to the famine.

    Jesus,you are not giving up are ya.This is pure and utter crap.As I said above,a famine is 'extreme and general scarcity of food.This was not the case in Ireland at the time.Food was plentiful and was being taken to the ports under armed guard.What does that tell you.What did happen was the failure of one crop.This does not equate to a 'Famine'.

    You seem to be a denier of the hard facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The deliberate murder of people with the intent of wiping out an entire race is slightly different to people starving over a potato blight.

    I'm not sure what % actually died from a lack of potatoes due to the potato blight, but I remember hearing something regarding the massive cholera outbreak which accounted for a very large proportion of those one million deaths.

    Maybe some learned historian can shed light on how many died from the cholera epidemic (which coincided with the potato famine).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I'm not sure what % actually died from a lack of potatoes due to the potato blight, but I remember hearing something regarding the massive cholera outbreak which accounted for a very large proportion of those one million deaths.

    Maybe some learned historian can shed light on how many died from the cholera epidemic (which coincided with the potato famine).

    I'm not sure they kept those figures, if you died no one was too worried how or why.

    Cholera runs rampant through starving people, especially when they are crammed in to places like work houses, so even though there would have been cholera without the famine, it was able to run riot because of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ruthloss


    Great Irish Famine" redirects here. For the 1740–1741 famine, see Irish Famine (1740–1741).
    20px-Padlock-silver.svg.png
    Great Famine
    an Gorta Mór225px-Skibbereen_by_James_Mahony%2C_1847.JPGSkibbereen 1847 by Cork artist James Mahony (1810–1879), commissioned by Illustrated London News, 1847CountryUnited Kingdom of Great Britain and IrelandLocationIrelandPeriod1845–1852Total deaths1 millionObservationsPolicy failure, potato blight, Corn Laws, British Anti-PoperyReliefsee belowImpact on demographicsPopulation fell by 20–25% due to mortality and emigrationConsequencesPermanent change in the country's demographic, political and cultural landscapeWebsiteList of memorials to the Great FaminePreceded byIrish Famine (1740–1741)Succeeded byIrish Famine, 1879 (An Gorta Beag)In Ireland, the Great Famine (Irish: an Gorta Mór) was a period of mass starvation, disease and emigration between 1845 and 1852./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]1[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc It is sometimes referred to, mostly outside Ireland, as the Irish Potato Famine because one-third of the population was then solely reliant on this cheap crop for a number of historical reasons./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]2[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]3[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]4[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc During the famine approximately 1 million people died and a million more emigrated from Ireland,/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]5[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc causing the island's population to fall by between 20% and 25%./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]6[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc The proximate cause of famine was a potato disease commonly known as potato blight./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]7[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc
    Although the potato crop failed, the country was still producing and exporting more than enough grain crops to feed the population. Records show during the period Ireland was exporting approximately thirty to fifty shiploads per day of food produce. As a consequence of these exports and a number of other factors such as land acquisition, absentee landlords and the effect of the 1690 penal laws, the Great Famine today is viewed by a number of historical academics as a form of either direct or indirect genocide./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]8[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc


  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    the population of england and wales was approx. 16 million in 1841,the population of ireland was 8.1 million approx.and the pop. of scotland was approx 2.6 million.do you think the government in london would have done more if the same ratio of people were dying in england and wales,ie-2million people???it was the united kingdom of great britain and ireland after all.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭eire4


    SF laments day to mark fallen Irish in wars, but not famine dead
    Peadar Tóibín says biggest event to befall people of Ireland should be commemorated
    Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 21:19 Updated: Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 21:20
    Marie O'Halloran

    The Government has been criticised for failing to have a fixed date each year to commemorate the Great Famine when there is one in place to remember Irish people who died in past wars.
    Sinn Féin arts spokesman Peadar Tóibín said the annual uncertainty over the commemoration date of the Great Famine was shocking “given it is the biggest event to befall the people of this country”.
    The Meath West TD was speaking as he introduced the Famine Memorial Day Bill, which would allow for a set date each year on which to commemorate the 1845-1848 famine.
    Mr Tóibín said there had been a commemoration each year since 2008 but with no fixed date. He said the second Sunday of May as the date to “ensure that the date does not swing, as it currently does, from May to September each year”.

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    And he said it was not yet known when the 2017 famine commemoration would take place.
    He said “we have a national day of commemoration in remembrance of the Irish people who died in past wards, which falls on the Sunday nearest to 11th July.
    “It is surprising therefore that we do not have a fixed date for the commemoration to honour the victims of the Great Irish Famine and its survivors.”
    Human cost
    Mr Tóibín said a fixed memorial day was needed to remember the human cost and consequences of neglect, the effects when an economic imperative was prioritised and to recognise the dark shadows of colonial might.
    “Most of all a fixed day of remembrance would honour those victims and survivors of the Great Famine and allow us to remember what our ancestors lived through.”
    He described the Great Hunger as an Irish tragedy with global significance. Mr Tóibín referred to a plaque in the Mansion House in Dublin honouring the native American Choctaw tribe who contributed to famine victims.
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    He quoted from the plaque: “Their humanity calls us to remember the millions of human beings throughout our world today who die of hunger and hunger-related illness in a world of plenty.”
    Mr Tóibín said there were 800 million such people around the world today. “Let’s fix this day of national commemoration in order that we can remember those who suffer today as those in this country did once.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    In fairness lads, jokes about human suffering are the lowest form of wit, no matter how long ago it happened.

    Even Dead baby jokes ?


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