Update old headstone or get a new one?

Red Kev · 26-03-2017 6:38pm

Maybe ask another family member what they think and try to get them to talk to your brother.

I disagree with those who say "It's just a headstone". It's more than that, it's the last memorial to them, so it needs to be done right. Maybe give it a bit more time. There's a tradition in our family that you don't touch the grave for 12 months after the funeral, so maybe use the time to slowly convince him.

But I'd try to get somebody else to talk to him as well.

the_pen_turner · 26-03-2017 7:19pm

I wonder has this reaction got to do with him living in another countr and maybe not being able to be there for his mother enough

diomed · 26-03-2017 7:55pm

It might be better to say to him that you are both so close to your parents that rather than get too emotional it would be better to get someone else in the family, possibly an older person, to meet you both, listen to you, and then decide for you.

Annasopra · 27-03-2017 10:29am

OP you seem to have other brothers. Have you spoken with them?

Paddy Cow · 27-03-2017 6:12pm

Thanks for all your replies. When I posted this thread I was a bit very emotional and deliberately didn't read all the replies until today. I wanted to get other people's perspectives/experiences. Sometimes it helps to get input from strangers

To clear up a few points:

The current headstone is looking just as good today, as when it was erected 27 years ago. There is no need to repair it.

My brother is hell bent on a new headstone because it's what HE wants for Mum. He is totally blinkered when it comes to this. All he can see is that he wants to give his Mum the best send off he can afford. I don't doubt that his heart is in the right place. He has a good job and can afford it and it's not a case of him splashing the cash. My mother died from a long drawn out battle with cancer and my brother was nothing but good to her. I know he thinks he is doing a good think by giving her a fancy new grave and headstone.

The issue I have with it is that I know my mother would hate it.

It's easy to say that it's just a headstone and don't fall out over it etc but that headstone meant a lot to my mother. What I didn't say in my OP (and I think this is why it is bothering me so much lately) is that my Dad was lost in Galway Bay in 1990 and it took three weeks for them to find his body. He was a fisherman and Mum never really got over his death. She went to a lot of trouble to get an engraving of Dad's boat on the headstone. After his death, she would visit his grave a lot, which is to be expected. She remarried but that didn't last and never had another relationship.

My Mum met my Dad when she was 13 and he was 18 (different times). They eloped to London together and returned to Ireland and got married when she was 18. They had a very happy life until he went missing. Like I said, Mum never got over it but she put her heart and soul into that headstone. It was her final tribute to him. She always knew she would be buried beside her husband and she chose everything knowing she would one day join him.

This gets us back to the present day conundrum. I think it's too quick for my brother to be making such big changes. He is all about honouring Mum and giving her a big send off but I think it's a huge mistake to get rid of HER chosen headstone, just to replace it with a new one. He was only 7 when Dad died and doesn't seem to make the connection between what Mum wanted back then and what he wants now.

I wish I could talk him out of it because I think that in a few years when his head is in a more level place he will see that what he is doing now is not what Mum would have wanted. My other brothers and sisters are scattered all over the world and aren't putting up objections, even though they agree with me.

Whatever happens, I won't fall out with my brother over it. I know his heart is in the right place. I don't believe in the afterlife, so I don't think my mother is judging us from heaven or anything like that, but it just doesn't sit well with me. I know she would hate anyone taking down her headstone and replacing it with a "better" one. Before she died, she talked to us all about how she wanted her funeral and boy was she specific

We did everything she asked and gave her a great send off and I think she just assumed that she didn't have to talk about her headstone because it is the done thing that her name would've been added with her husband's.

Sorry for the essay but it feels good to get it all out

baaba maal · 27-03-2017 6:37pm

I have to say that I disagree with the sentiment expressed by many here that you shouldn't fall out with your brother and therefore to prevent this,you should let him remove the current headstone. I would think it is highly unusual to replace headstones unless damaged or poor quality stone that is visibly deteriorating. The onus should be on him to make a valid case (not just that he really, really wants to).
Unless your mother gave specific instructions to replace it (which you have clarified that she didn't) I would be vehemently opposed and would vocalise it too. There are many other ways your brother can show his love for his mother (and that can include donations to cancer-related charities).
There is also the wider family history issue- that headstone, including the image of the boat should be there for future generations to see and pay their respects at. Admittedly, I'm somebody who enjoys going around older graveyards to look at the historic aspect of remembering the dead. Imagine if every generation decided to replace the headstones put down by the previous generations as they saw fit?- it doesn't seem right to me.
Just to ask- is there something written on the current headstone that your brother wants to exclude for any reason? i.e. you are planning on adding more writing to the existing one- would it be identical text and drawing on the proposed new one? (and I'm only asking- I don't have an After Hours theory on it or anything!

freshpopcorn · 27-03-2017 6:42pm

If your brother can't see the logic in keeping the headstone.From what you've wrote I don't really know what you can do. Certain people think throwing money at something is the best thing you can do and it can be hard to talk them around.

JupiterKid · 27-03-2017 6:49pm

My mum is passed 27 years and her headstone, a minimalist black granite one, looks as fresh and relevant today as it did when it was erected in 1990. When my dad died in 2014, we simply added his details to the same headstone.

So - OP. I think you should get the original headstone amended. I hope you can come to an amiable agreement with your brother.

BTW sorry at losing your parents relatively young. It sucks.:(

Poor Uncle Tom · 27-03-2017 6:56pm

baaba maal wrote: »

I disagree with the sentiment expressed by many here that you shouldn't fall out with your brother..........

So you'd fall out with family, over a stone....

baaba maal · 27-03-2017 7:19pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

So you'd fall out with family, over a stone....

In my opinion, it is the other brother who is instigating any possible falling out.
Are the OP's wishes as important as the brother? of course.

Is it over a stone? well....it is over two siblings interpretation of how to respect the memory of their mother. The stone that was chosen by the now deceased mother. I think the issue is more complex than the OP simply conceding the issue to prevent the relationship with the brother from being affected.

Satts · 27-03-2017 8:32pm

Maybe your siblings woud be more vocal if they knew they will have to pay a share of the new headstone. On the other hand hint to your brother he will have to pay for it. Money always focuses the mind.

funkey_monkey · 27-03-2017 11:04pm

My thoughts on this is that this brother who lives in another country is compensating for his perceived lack of attendence of his mother during her latter years as he was living in another country.
The only way he feels he can make ammends is by splashing the cash.

I think your brother is being arrogant and insensitive. As he is living in another country and rarely visited the grave I'd have few regrets about standing up to him on this issue.

If he has got a guilty conscience that is his problem, but he cannot ruin the link between his mother and her husband because of it.

It is a sad state that some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

However, only you know if it is that big an issue to you to stand up to him. Do you visit the grave regularly yourself? How would you feel going to the grave and the headstone she designed and bought not being there? Would it annoy you - especially with him back living in another country and you looking at it every day?

I'm not trying to raise a row here, but I think your brother is being totally domineering here and if you feel so strongly about this issue you need to stand up to him.

The headstone sounds quite unique - most are standard things that look fine and are scribed with details. This sounds as if it is telling a story. I'm all for a bit of sentiment.

It's not what the others are saying on this thread, but it is my opinion on the matter.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

funkey_monkey · 15-06-2017 11:12pm

Hi OP, just been re-reading this thread and was wondering/hoping that you got it resolved to your satisfaction?

ToddyDoody · 16-06-2017 6:49pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

This isn't a case of who is right or who is wrong but how do we resolve this?

Save the one currently on your mother's grave.

Leave him put up the one he wants then replace it with yours and have his one destroyed. Deny all knowledge of anything to do with this, make it out as 'just one of those things'

Ghekko · 16-06-2017 7:10pm

Why is this brother making the decisions? I think it would be disrespectful to your mother to change it given what it meant to her. My mother had an outline of our lady engraved on her sisters grave as they both had great devotion to her. She is now buried with her and there's no way any of us would have considered changing it. I can't believe your brother would want to change the stone with your dad's boat engraved on it. Is he thinking of putting the same image and wording on a new stone? I'd understand if time had damaged the gravestone but it's just silly in my opinion to change it when it's in good shape. Is he planning to pay for it all - won't be cheap!
As your mum only passed away in April you will have another couple of months at least before the grave will be redone - that is if it needs to be cemented over. So hopefully you can resolve the issue. But if he is hell bent on getting a new stone and your siblings don't dispute it, let him pay for it!

ETA Sorry - only noticed your mum died last year, not just April gone. Glad you have come to terms with the decision. Still think your brother was daft to change the existing stone though!

Paddy Cow · 16-06-2017 9:37pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Hi OP, just been re-reading this thread and was wondering/hoping that you got it resolved to your satisfaction?

The new headstone is going ahead. I wouldn't say it's to my satisfaction but I've made my peace with it now. At the time I posted this thread, I was really angry, hurt, emotional etc. I'm glad I posted it and I'm glad I had it out with my brother because now I can move on.

If I hadn't said it to him, my emotions would've festered and I'd probably have exploded at some stage in the future, which would be pointless. We've had many conversations about it since and while he knows I don't agree with it, I'm not going to harp on about it. He really does think he's doing the best by his Mum.

When I posted this thread, some posters said that it's just a headstone, don't fall out, you're mother wouldn't want that etc and at the time I wanted to slap those posters

But time calms the emotions and all that's true. I think Mum would be proud of us both - me for standing up for her and my brother for doing what he genuinely thinks is right. We can both be hot headed but we sorted it without falling out and she would be happy with that

Thanks to everyone who posted (even if I didn't want to hear it at the time) and thank you for remembering. That's really nice and I appreciate it

Nekarsulm · 17-06-2017 12:03am

Keep the old stone, it's too much of your family history to let the stone mason just cart it away.
If I was in your situation, that's what I'd do anyway.

funkey_monkey · 17-06-2017 12:19am

Yes - what is happening to the old headstone? I hope you are getting to keep it yourself?

jcd5971 · 17-06-2017 12:24am

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice.

I don't want to fall out with my brother but it's hard to reach a compromise when we're at such polar opposites. I think the grave should be left as my mother left it and he wants to modernise it. By modernising it, he means changing everything.

It would be easier to accept his changes if he visited the grave on a regular basis but he doesn't. He's hardly visited since my Dad died and never did any up keep. He doesn't live in the country and I can't see him keeping the grave in good keep in the future.

It's not even a year since our Mum died and I think it's grief that has him acting this way. He wants to give her the best send off he thinks she deserves but he doesn't see that she already did that nearly 30 years ago when she decided on the grave of her and her husband.

I won't fall out with him over it and if he wants to go ahead with it I won't stop him but once he changes the grave his mother chose, there's no going back.

Maybe I'm being over dramatic but this is an emotional topic at the moment and I appreciate advice

take the old gravestone down, let him put up his new one, then when he ****s off out of the country baack to some hole never to return here again, but back up the headstone your mam wanted for her husband and update it with her details.

these family members who try to justify their guilt for never being around are annoyoing trying to make one big gesture, dont be bullied by them.

sorry for your loss also

Update old headstone or get a new one?

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