Working 9-5 - I want to be rich

14dMoney · 15-10-2019 5:15pm

Sleepy wrote: »

I thought similarly when I was young and naive too.

Making a fortune requires drive, hard work and brains. That's not in dispute. If you think that's all it requires, however, you're deluded.

It also needs a large element of luck: the right parental support to educate those brains, the fortuitous meetings with the right people that allow you to build a business, favourable economic conditions for your business model, your customers to be able to pay their invoices, the legal and regulative environment that respects your right to own that business or any of it's patents or intellectual property, a favourable tax regime, employees/accountants that don't steal from you, the good fortune not to end up losing everything due to an injury at work claim or to be put out of business because insurers won't provide public liability insurance etc. etc. etc. I could keep going, but it comes down to luck.

There's a lovely comic that explains the concept of the privilege that even a normal middle-class upbringing (never mind a wealthy one) gives an individual better than I ever could:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

This kind of crappy comic is what is convincing the youth of today, that if they're not from an affluent background, they won't be able to achieve anything. A negative and untrue message.

NoteAgent · 15-10-2019 5:58pm

14dMoney wrote: »

This kind of crappy comic is what is convincing the youth of today, that if they're not from an affluent background, they won't be able to achieve anything. A negative and untrue message.

Yep. 90% nonsense ITT.

Anyone can make excuses as to why they wont be successful. Its about mindset.
When O'Leary took the job at Ryanair he could have easily said "why bother, this airline is losing €5m a year, up against a huge competitor that has the backing of the state", etc, etc. But he didnt.
Successful people have a glass half full mindset

LirW · 15-10-2019 6:11pm

NoteAgent wrote: »

Yep. 90% nonsense ITT.

Anyone can make excuses as to why they wont be successful. Its about mindset.
When O'Leary took the job at Ryanair he could have easily said "why bother, this airline is losing €5m a year, up against a huge competitor that has the backing of the state", etc, etc. But he didnt.
Successful people have a glass half full mindset

And for every O'Leary there are 50 others that take over businesses that have no hope of succeeding, no matter what you do. You just don't read about them.

I'm all for encouraging young people and show them what's possible but dismissing the fact that your background, upbringing and luck play a big role in success is ridiculous.

dxhound2005 · 15-10-2019 7:28pm

MondayBlues wrote: »

Do you like your job?
Can you see yourself doing it for 45 years been a slave to someone else profiting off you if not self employed.
Do you like having your Monday to Friday controlled or even weekends controlled by your employer dictating your life?
Ever be in bed on a Monday morning absolutely wrecked and contemplate what you are doing with your life and absolutely dreading get out of the bed when all you want it a lie in after a hard weekend on the beer.
Do you find that life is slowly drifting you by having to work and not enough hours in the day to do the things that you like to do.

So I need ideas on how to get rich. If anyone can let me know i would greatly appreciate it.

I was thinking of maybe recycling used condoms, don't think anyone is doing that.

Here's how you can get a bit richer, but not rich. Get a second job in the 24 hour economy to supplement your wages. Be the one selling beer to those cultivating a hangover. Envy those who are in bed while you are selling papers on Sunday morning in the local shop. Marvel at the wit of the drunks who come into the takeaway where you are behind the counter. Or get on your bike and deliver their food. Lots of other opportunities out there if you need extra cash.

cajonlardo · 15-10-2019 10:53pm

Are any of you old enough to remember ads in the papers saying if you want the secret to be guaranteed financial success then send a stamped addressed envelope along with one pound sterling?
People did send the pound.
They got back a tiny slip of paper in their self addressed envelope. It said "do what I am doing"

Raconteuse · 15-10-2019 11:43pm

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I disagree with you.
Watch Rocketman.
Elton John had all the money in the world and up until recently wasn't happy.

Drugs problems, relationships problems, career problems, issues with his parents, and accepting himself for who he is.

Money doesn't solve all your issues and instantly makes you happy.

If you won the lotto this week you'd be delighted, after a year though the novelty would wear off.
If you gave up your job you'd be bored out of your mind after a couple of years.

However the money would mean you could do more meaningful things with your life. (IE to help society) And this would give you happiness.

Elton John is one of the super rich though. And better to be an addict with his money (for treatment, a roof over his head) than a heroin addict sleeping rough.

I do think money brings happiness in some senses - and i don't mean super rich, just well off. No financial worries, access to the best healthcare... just security. Obviously you're going to be much unhappier if you're worrying about covering bills all the time. It's a horrible stress.

Not everyone who says money can bring happiness is talking about buying a mansion and a holiday villa and yacht and flash cars and designer clothes. Some just mean the contentment of having no financial worries and still being able to enjoy treats like nice meals, holidays etc.

grindle · 16-10-2019 7:32am

NoteAgent wrote: »

Anyone can make excuses as to why they wont be successful. Its about mindset.

Ye've completely missed the point of the comic. It's not to provide an excuse, it's pointing out that the lack of a solid foundation tends to lead to predictable outcomes in an unfair world.
Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps only gets you so far if absolutely everybody is doing it. Somebody will still need to be the potwasher, the server, the janitor, etc etc.
The position you're in can form the mindset, negative or positive.

If your answer to that is "Well they should've worked harder then." you're missing the point again. If that person works hard, rises above whatever station they were stuck at before, somebody else moves down and some other child or family is disadvantaged. Inequality exists and it isn't the fault of the disadvantaged. Well, besides some adult gurriers but they're not the majority and their children are almost certainly screwed from the get-go.

It's probably the child's fault, they should feck off to the mines or clean chimneys & make something of themselves.

machaseh · 16-10-2019 8:07am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here's how you can get a bit richer, but not rich. Get a second job in the 24 hour economy to supplement your wages. Be the one selling beer to those cultivating a hangover. Envy those who are in bed while you are selling papers on Sunday morning in the local shop. Marvel at the wit of the drunks who come into the takeaway where you are behind the counter. Or get on your bike and deliver their food. Lots of other opportunities out there if you need extra cash.

So you are genuinely advocating for people who already have a 9-5 office job to go work in a take away on the evenings and selling beer on weekend mornings?

That's not gonna make you rich by any means. For example what if it makes you fall into a higher tax bracket?

RocketRaccoon · 16-10-2019 8:13am

I'd love a regular weekday 9-5 job.

machaseh · 16-10-2019 8:21am

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I'd love a regular weekday 9-5 job.

What is stopping you from getting one? What industry are you in?

comete · 16-10-2019 8:39am

I think the trick here is to define rich.

I work a 9-5 (yeah right, more like 9-whenever the work is done). I'm not in love with it, but my colleagues are nice and the salary is sufficient. Where I think I'm richer than my peers is that I live a full life. I log off for the day and walk my dog, go cycling, go running, hang out with my wife or extended family. I have my health, and that's a lot more than most people.

My feeling is that there's a lot more than a single factor preventing me from becoming ultra wealthy from a financial perspective. I spent my late teens and early twenties planning my route to success, but when reality hit and I entered the working world, I put more value on my free time than on earning a load of cash, so I reassessed my situation and worked towards the lifestyle I want. This was made even clearer when I stepped into a management role. It was awful. I'm now fully home based, which means earning a salary that is comfortable in a city, but I can eventually live in a location with almost 50% cheaper living expenses. I've cut a lot of expenses out to the point where my only major expenses are now accommodation, bills and food.

Put simply, i believe to become extremely wealthy you need to be in a position whereby the outcome of failing doesn't frighten you. This can mean coming from a wealthy background or having nothing left to lose. Luck probably plays a very small part, but I also believe you can make your own luck through hard work and determination. Following that you need a degree of intelligence and a lot of soft skills.

Do I want more money, sure I definitely wouldn't say no. Would it change my life, might let me buy a nicer car or go on a more extravagant holiday, but ultimately no. Am I willing to sacrifice my personal time to get more, no friggin way, time is my most valuable commodity. We only have a limited amount and it's decreasing daily. Use it wisely.

EDIT: I should say that the one thing I've observed about my extremely successful friends/family is that very rarely are they in it for the money. They get more of a thrill out of the chase. They money is purely a nice side effect. Its not for me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I also agree with the sentiment that you'll never get financially rich working for someone else, but it can be more comfortable in other ways.

Squall Leonhart · 16-10-2019 9:19am

comete wrote: »

Put simply, i believe to become extremely wealthy you need to be in a position whereby the outcome of failing doesn't frighten you. This can mean coming from a wealthy background or having nothing left to lose

I get a feeling there's a lot of truth in this. I'm heading for mid 30s, married, mortgaged and a baby on the way. I work as an employee in a "9-5". I think I may have left my chance for wealth behind me, or far distantly ahead of me. I cannot afford to recklessly gamble my income when I have such responsibilities to others. I didn't wake up to even considering financial prudence until very late 20s (truth be told I also wasn't earning much money at all until late 20s due to recession, college, etc) and I didn't start earning anything "decent" until the last 2-3 years.

I find it hard to envision a way that as a 40 something year old I will have accumulated anything I could consider 'wealth'. At present I have virtually zero savings, I am paying 18% between myself and employer to a pension and trying to pay down my debts outside of mortgage (car loan, credit card {i know, i know...}, furniture on finance) without taking on any extra debt. Should be cleared or thereabouts in 12 months.

In theory I am getting better off each month, I owe less money and I have more money built up in a pension fund/ever so slightly more built up in savings. But, always a but, there's a baby coming early 2020!

dxhound2005 · 16-10-2019 11:15am

machaseh wrote: »

So you are genuinely advocating for people who already have a 9-5 office job to go work in a take away on the evenings and selling beer on weekend mornings?

That's not gonna make you rich by any means. For example what if it makes you fall into a higher tax bracket?

My second suggestion might be more to your liking. Spend all their spare cash buying company shares. Only buy those which are going to go up by at least 10% every year. That should do it.

machaseh · 16-10-2019 11:53am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

My second suggestion might be more to your liking. Spend all their spare cash buying company shares. Only buy those which are going to go up by at least 10% every year. That should do it.

You do realize that shares are also a very big risk in the event of an economic downturn right? It's not like you are guaranteed 10% extra every year.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 16-10-2019 12:02pm

machaseh wrote: »

You do realize that shares are also a very big risk in the event of an economic downturn right? It's not like you are guaranteed 10% extra every year.

Market crashes should be factored into any long-term investment plan — but as buying opportunities, not something to be feared. When the market overheats, go to cash/gold and wait for the next crash (i.e., buying opportunity).

machaseh · 16-10-2019 1:07pm

Kassandra Black Bamboo wrote: »

Market crashes should be factored into any long-term investment plan — but as buying opportunities, not something to be feared. When the market overheats, go to cash/gold and wait for the next crash (i.e., buying opportunity).

I don't think you really know how investment works. If you are investing shares for years and then suddenly they lose all their value, you are left with nothing.

That is why most people have pension schemes and the like who do all the investing for them. Doing all of it yourself and then even better than a pension scheme is possible, but requires a lot of knowledge and time and will have higher risk.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 16-10-2019 1:26pm

machaseh wrote: »

I don't think you really know how investment works. If you are investing shares for years and then suddenly they lose all their value, you are left with nothing.

I do know a little bit about investing.

How many established, reputable companies have seen their share price suddenly drop to zero? That would be an extremely rare event. Certainly, some such companies have seen their share price battered by various internal or external shocks — BP's share price fell by more than half after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, for instance — but more often than not, companies recover from such events in time. If you had bought BP during the disaster, you would have almost doubled your money within a year.

That is why most people have pension schemes and the like who do all the investing for them. Doing all of it yourself and then even better than a pension scheme is possible, but requires a lot of knowledge and time and will have higher risk.

I know from first-hand experience that the conventional "leave it to the professionals" is terrible advice. On average, fund managers don't beat the market. In the US, around 65 percent of actively managed large-cap funds trailed the S&P 500 last year, and over 90 percent are trailing the S&P 500 after 15 years. And yet these professionals are charging sometimes hefty fees for their underperforming services — which eat into the returns they are able to deliver, and in turn eat into your ability to compound your returns over time.

Sure, learning to invest properly takes knowledge and time, but it's probably the single most important thing anyone can do to better him- or herself financially.

One More Toy · 16-10-2019 1:29pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

My second suggestion might be more to your liking. Spend all their spare cash buying company shares. Only buy those which are going to go up by at least 10% every year. That should do it.

What crap advice

dxhound2005 · 16-10-2019 1:43pm

One More Toy wrote: »

What crap advice

I think it is appropriate for this person.

Ever be in bed on a Monday morning absolutely wrecked and contemplate what you are doing with your life and absolutely dreading get out of the bed when all you want it a lie in after a hard weekend on the beer.
Do you find that life is slowly drifting you by having to work and not enough hours in the day to do the things that you like to do.

So I need ideas on how to get rich.

comete · 16-10-2019 2:02pm

I actually originally thought your suggestion to buy shares in a company "which are going to go up by at least 10% every year" was tongue in cheek.

machaseh · 16-10-2019 2:04pm

Kassandra Black Bamboo wrote: »

I do know a little bit about investing. How many established, reputable companies have seen their share price suddenly drop to zero? That would be an extremely rare event. Certainly, some such companies have seen their share price battered by various internal or external shocks — BP's share price fell by more than half after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, for instance — but more often than not, companies recover from such events in time. If you had bought BP during the disaster, you would have almost doubled your money within a year.

I know from first-hand experience that the conventional "leave it to the professionals" is terrible advice. On average, fund managers don't beat the market. In the US, around 65 percent of actively managed large-cap funds trailed the S&P 500 last year, and over 90 percent are trailing the S&P 500 after 15 years. And yet these professionals are charging sometimes hefty fees for their underperforming services — which eat into the returns they are able to deliver, and in turn eat into your ability to compound your returns over time.

Sure, learning to invest properly takes knowledge and time, but it's probably the single most important thing anyone can do to better him- or herself financially.

Well okay. So for examply my company has a pension fund scheme, if you contribute +5% of your salary monthly the company doubles that.

The pension fund invests things for you, however it does also offer you options to invest things yourself rather than have them do it.

From which amount of money would investing yourself become an attractive prospect? I am not a high earner by any means mind you.

mr_edge_to_you · 16-10-2019 2:06pm

listermint wrote: »

Your either happy in yourself, or your not.

The money in your pocket won't change that. There's plenty of young very unhappy wealthy people in the cemetery that can attest to that.

Full of people who indispensable too!

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 16-10-2019 2:15pm

machaseh wrote: »

From which amount of money would investing yourself become an attractive prospect? I am not a high earner by any means mind you.

I don't think you should feel bound by any minimum amount — although you'd have to check what the commission structure is on trades so that your investment isn't disproportionately eaten up by fees. But even as a small investor, you can easily outperform the professionals if you dedicate time to research and learning. Professional fund managers often manage a large portfolio across varied industry sectors, to the point where they don't actually know much about many of the stocks in which they're invested. You can beat them by sticking to sectors and companies you know well.

FishOnABike · 16-10-2019 2:15pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's not just luck, i had the chance to be rich several years ago but made the wrong choice, now im just reasonably comfortable

Successful people make a lot more right choices than wrong ones

Surely that's just an example of confirmation bias. A successful person has, in retrospect, made more right choices.

At the time the choices were made they wouldn't have known which was the better choice. Luck (or chance) would gave played a significant part in whether the choice made at the time turned out to be the better one or not.

RocketRaccoon · 16-10-2019 2:24pm

machaseh wrote: »

What is stopping you from getting one? What industry are you in?

Airline industry.

machaseh · 16-10-2019 2:30pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Airline industry.

Yeah if you want a 9-5er you're gonna have to make a major career change there then.

16-10-2019 8:32pm

Sleepy wrote: »

99% of those making big money in top law/finance firms have had advantages the average person doesn't (family connections, expensive educations etc.)

This is bizarrely untrue. Nearly everyone I know who works in those industries had average middle-class backgrounds, especially those from outside Dublin where private schooling isn't so prevalent.

What they tend to have in common is an ability to work long hours and a reasonable level of intelligence.

A massive percentage of people go to work but don't work particularly hard when they are there. The people I know who really made it worked hard when they were at work.

14dMoney · 17-10-2019 12:14pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Airline industry.

What about it don't you like? Is there certain perks with it that you wouldn't get with other industries such as travel etc.?

Just asking because the grass is always greener, but as a 9-5er myself, I can assure you that the ratrace isn't all its cracked up to be.

nthclare · 17-10-2019 12:37pm

14dMoney wrote: »

What about it don't you like? Is there certain perks with it that you wouldn't get with other industries such as travel etc.?

Just asking because the grass is always greener, but as a 9-5er myself, I can assure you that the ratrace isn't all its cracked up to be.

If I had my way, I'd get fully nearly there out of the ratrace, live close to the ocean.
Well closer than I am now. Say living on the outskirts of a small town, have a small modern heated home.

Two bedrooms, a bit of land to grow my own food, maybe have a part time job
No mortgage and 400 Euros a week would do me.

The right clothes for the season's, keep fit and eat well.

There's a lot to be said for the simple life.

No way do I want to be one of those middle class slaves to the system, living the dream and waking up to the nightmare when it all goes tits up...

Seen it so many times, big car in the driveway, nothing in the fridge.
Annual salary gone on mortgage, car, holidays, child minders,alcohol and wedding invites.

Some people's late twenties until their late 30's is full of that shoite.

Thankfully I have a small circle of friends and avoided that.

mariaalice · 17-10-2019 1:33pm

nthclare wrote: »

If I had my way, I'd get fully nearly there out of the ratrace, live close to the ocean.
Well closer than I am now. Say living on the outskirts of a small town, have a small modern heated home.

Two bedrooms, a bit of land to grow my own food, maybe have a part time job
No mortgage and 400 Euros a week would do me.

The right clothes for the season's, keep fit and eat well.

There's a lot to be said for the simple life.

No way do I want to be one of those middle class slaves to the system, living the dream and waking up to the nightmare when it all goes tits up...

Seen it so many times, big car in the driveway, nothing in the fridge.
Annual salary gone on mortgage, car, holidays, child minders,alcohol and wedding invites.

Some people's late twenties until their late 30's is full of that shoite.

Thankfully I have a small circle of friends and avoided that.

You are never going to have a partner in life or children or need any consumer good or have any medical expenses? growing food is often more expensive that purchassing it in your local german discount supermarket. Anywhere by the see is going to be more expensive even a view of the sea add to the cost of the property. .

machaseh · 17-10-2019 1:51pm

mariaalice wrote: »

You are never going to have a partner in life or children or need any consumer good or have any medical expenses? growing food is often more expensive that purchassing it in your local german discount supermarket. Anywhere by the see is going to be more expensive even a view of the sea add to the cost of the property. .

Many people don't want children. It's 2019, not the 50s.
A partner doesnt need to cost money if he/she works.
Growing food more expensive? Depends, but it's mostly a fun hobby to do rather than your actual daily basis of sustenance.

With 'depends' I mean it depends on:

- What you plant. A small raspberry plant is going to be dearer than just seeds for tomatoes or whatever.
- How well you want to do it in terms of equipment, fertilizer, pesticides etc. Most people would keep it simple and then it doesn't have to be expensive.

mariaalice · 17-10-2019 1:54pm

machaseh wrote: »

Many people don't want children. It's 2019, not the 50s.
A partner doesnt need to cost money if he/she works.
Growing food more expensive? Depends, but it's mostly a fun hobby to do rather than your actual daily basis of sustenance.

With 'depends' I mean it depends on:

- What you plant. A small raspberry plant is going to be dearer than just seeds for tomatoes or whatever.
- How well you want to do it in terms of equipment, fertilizer, pesticides etc. Most people would keep it simple and then it doesn't have to be expensive.

I was just makeing the point that its offten not realty but some sort of Arcadian myth people are longing for as an antidote to the reality of modren life.

Geuze · 17-10-2019 2:12pm

Sleepy wrote: »

99% of those making big money in top law/finance firms have had advantages the average person doesn't (family connections, expensive educations etc.)

I know plenty of people on approx 100k from normal backgrounds.

e.g. small farm in rural Ireland, another son of a Garda

Now, ok they are not CEOs, ok.

machaseh · 17-10-2019 2:16pm

mariaalice wrote: »

I was just makeing the point that its offten not realty but some sort of Arcadian myth people are longing for as an antidote to the reality of modren life.

Such a lifestyle is not a myth at all. Many people are able to afford a small house in rural coastal island and are able to not get children if they choose not to. And many people have some vegetables in their garden.

RocketRaccoon · 17-10-2019 2:31pm

14dMoney wrote: »

What about it don't you like? Is there certain perks with it that you wouldn't get with other industries such as travel etc.?

Just asking because the grass is always greener, but as a 9-5er myself, I can assure you that the ratrace isn't all its cracked up to be.

Simple things like knowing in advance what time I am working and finishing on a day.
Knowing my days off in 3 weeks time.
Not waking at midnight to start work at 1am.
Being at home at weekends to see my wife and kids.

Sleepy · 17-10-2019 2:47pm

Geuze wrote: »

I know plenty of people on approx 100k from normal backgrounds.

e.g. small farm in rural Ireland, another son of a Garda

Now, ok they are not CEOs, ok.

An annual income of 100k isn't exactly "rich". It's doing fairly well for themselves and has the potential to make them "comfortable" over time (assuming they keep reasonable control over their spending, maximise their pension contributions, don't end up divorced etc.) "Rich", to me at least, means only working if you choose to.

Assuming the individual earning an 100k salary is single, our taxation system takes a little over 40% of that 100k which still leaves them with a nice income but if they're married with a spouse who stays at home to mind the kids it puts them at a fairly average household income for a family in Dublin. Even with a spouse who earns a more normal salary (say in the 30-40k territory), after mortgage and childcare costs, they might still find themselves far from being "rich".

Now, while it may seem I'm downplaying their achievements, I'm not at all. They'll have worked (and presumably studied) hard to get to where they're at. But they'll still most likely have had advantages that not everyone has: supportive family, access to cheap / subsidised third level education, good timing in entering the job market, good health etc. etc. Their success isn't entirely self-determined. No one's is.

ILoveYourVibes · 17-10-2019 3:33pm

MondayBlues wrote: »

I was thinking of maybe recycling used condoms, don't think anyone is doing that.

genius

17-10-2019 3:45pm

All depends on a number of things. Outside Dublin housing is still reasonably priced even if you're on minimum wage. My plan is to save for 2 years and get a very small mortgage (that I could scrape by on if I ended up on the dole again) and re-assess then. Maybe I'll keep working or maybe I'll just do part-time stuff. I'm not someone who aspires to be on 100k per year, 30 will do me just fine assuming I stay single and never have kids.

ToddyDoody · 17-10-2019 7:19pm

MondayBlues wrote: »

Do you like your job?

It has its moments.

Can you see yourself doing it for 45 years been a slave to someone else profiting off you if not self employed.

Doesn't bother me as long as terms and pay are respected, within reason.

Do you like having your Monday to Friday controlled or even weekends controlled by your employer dictating your life?

Shift work, rotating between nights and days.

Its factory work. Unlike office work, common sense will often dictate the job rather than the whims of management.

Working 9-5 - I want to be rich

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