Heat Hero Manifold

theduffer · 06-03-2016 1:38pm #1

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if any plumbers on here has retro fitted this product onto a stove and oil home heating system. I head a promo on the radio on this product a few weeks ago and it appears to boost output to rads by at least 48%.

I have a stove on with a back boiler that gets the rads lukewarm so i was thinking of installing this product. I'm curious what feedback folks have on this.. Only reviews i can get are on its own website below..

http://heathero.ie/

Thanks

Wearb · 06-03-2016 3:11pm

I just had a look at the link and I can't see anything special at all about it. The how it works section doesn't enlighten me any.

Customer testimonials can be very unreliable, with so many other things at play on an upgraded system.

I often hear customers tell me that their rads were a lot warmer after my boiler service. I would not have done anything to cause that. Maybe heat quicker, but not hotter.

Wait for some more comments here.

theduffer · 06-03-2016 3:24pm

Hi Wearb,

Thanks for that, i understand the product was only launched in sept 2015 so customer reviews may be thin on the ground..

my3cents · 06-03-2016 7:12pm

So what about NOT having any valves in the main feed and return between the boiler and cylinder as a basic safety measure or doesn't that matter anymore?

Dtp1979 · 06-03-2016 9:34pm

my3cents wrote: »

So what about NOT having any valves in the main feed and return between the boiler and cylinder as a basic safety measure or doesn't that matter anymore?

There isn't any valves on the primary circuits on the solid fuel. There is one on the expansion pipe and there shouldn't be.
There's also a radiator balance valve that I've no idea what it's about.
I can't see why the product is needed anyway. If a normal pump can't do the job of heating the rads then the issue is either incorrectly sized or installed pipework or sludge.

my3cents · 06-03-2016 11:14pm

It just looks like its a way to stop "snore" (is that the right term I'm not a plumber) in the header tank if the pump is turned up too high.

Dtp1979 · 06-03-2016 11:17pm

my3cents wrote: »

It just looks like its a way to stop "snore" (is that the right term I'm not a plumber) in the header tank if the pump is turned up too high.

Snore?

Entonces · 11-03-2016 9:16am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Snore?

I'm very interested in this system. I spoke to art yesterday and he has convinced me that this will improve my stoves output, which had been disappointing since day one.
I'd love some independent feedback before taking the plunge all the same

Dtp1979 · 11-03-2016 11:11am

Entonces wrote: »

I'm very interested in this system. I spoke to art yesterday and he has convinced me that this will improve my stoves output, which had been disappointing since day one.
I'd love some independent feedback before taking the plunge all the same

If a stove is say 10kw then nothing in the world will increase that. Maybe your stove wasn't put in correctly

my3cents · 11-03-2016 11:13am

Entonces wrote: »

I'm very interested in this system. I spoke to art yesterday and he has convinced me that this will improve my stoves output, which had been disappointing since day one.
I'd love some independent feedback before taking the plunge all the same

Burning more fuel or burning it more efficiently improves your stoves output, this device claims to move any heat produced around more efficiently.

The one thing it does not do is create heat. At best this system improves the way heat is removed from the stoves boiler and distributed around the rads and hot water tank.

If the stove isn't producing the necessary heat or you have too many rads for the amount of fuel you are burning this system isn't going to help.

I don't know if you can do the sums but you really need to work out how much fuel you need to burn to produce all the heat you need before you start lubricating with snake oil.

Entonces · 11-03-2016 11:49am

my3cents wrote: »

Burning more fuel or burning it more efficiently improves your stoves output, this device claims to move any heat produced around more efficiently.

The one thing it does not do is create heat. At best this system improves the way heat is removed from the stoves boiler and distributed around the rads and hot water tank.

If the stove isn't producing the necessary heat or you have too many rads for the amount of fuel you are burning this system isn't going to help.

I don't know if you can do the sums but you really need to work out how much fuel you need to burn to produce all the heat you need before you start lubricating with snake oil.

The stove is a 20kw Charnwood. It should be fine for 10-12 rads. Plumbing is fine it gets heat to the rads but just warm, while taps are hot.

I'm burning coal lately to see if fuel was the issue and while it is an improvement,it's not producing that constant hot radiator effect that the oil boiler achieves. The stove thermometer is generally between 130 - 200 degrees.

I like everything the product claims to do and the idea behind it is simple. I just wonder why every stove isn't sold with it if it's so good.

Also my3cents can I get 3 bottles of your finest snake oil please

Dtp1979 · 11-03-2016 12:50pm

Entonces wrote: »

The stove is a 20kw Charnwood. It should be fine for 10-12 rads. Plumbing is fine it gets heat to the rads but just warm, while taps are hot.

I'm burning coal lately to see if fuel was the issue and while it is an improvement,it's not producing that constant hot radiator effect that the oil boiler achieves. The stove thermometer is generally between 130 - 200 degrees.

I like everything the product claims to do and the idea behind it is simple. I just wonder why every stove isn't sold with it if it's so good.

Also my3cents can I get 3 bottles of your finest snake oil please

What my3cents is saying is correct.
If your not a plumber, how do you know your pipework is correct?
If you light a big coal fire and leave it going all evening then your 12 rads should be red hot if it's a 20kw stove.
If they're not hot then you've a piping issue and do fancy product will fix that

my3cents · 11-03-2016 1:10pm

Entonces wrote: »

The stove is a 20kw Charnwood. It should be fine for 10-12 rads. Plumbing is fine it gets heat to the rads but just warm, while taps are hot.

I'm burning coal lately to see if fuel was the issue and while it is an improvement,it's not producing that constant hot radiator effect that the oil boiler achieves. The stove thermometer is generally between 130 - 200 degrees.

I like everything the product claims to do and the idea behind it is simple. I just wonder why every stove isn't sold with it if it's so good.

Also my3cents can I get 3 bottles of your finest snake oil please

The problem is that your hot taps won't be using much more the 3KW of the heat from the stove yet 10-12 rads will want 15KW (or more) so if you balance out the heat between the two you don't have much spare to play with.

Wearb · 11-03-2016 1:15pm

@Entonces "and the idea behind it is simple" I don't know what you mean by that, as I don't understand what it does that proper plumbing doesn't achieve. I wish that their claims were better explained, so that we could scrutinise it better.

Dtp has offered good advice.

my3cents · 11-03-2016 1:18pm

Wearb wrote: »

@Entonces "and the idea behind it is simple" I don't know what you mean by that, as I don't understand what it does that proper plumbing doesn't achieve. I wish that their claims were better explained, so that we could scrutinise it better.

Dtp has offered good advice.

It allows you to pump the water around the circuit quicker without having the problem of the over pressure dumping water from the top of the cylinder back into the header tank via the expansion pipe.

Wearb · 11-03-2016 2:18pm

my3cents wrote: »

It allows you to pump the water around the circuit quicker without having the problem of the over pressure dumping water from the top of the cylinder back into the header tank via the expansion pipe.

Thanks. I can see that that is what it claims to do. But proper plumbing with F&E and vent on equal pressure zones should allow the same to happen without any fancy equipment.

On a side note, do you think with those temperatures that was mentioned, that the stove is producing heat that isn't getting to the heating system? I don't.

Entonces · 11-03-2016 2:47pm

I guess to my non plumber brain, pumping hot water through the heating system should achieve more heat to rads than pumping return water into stove [if thats what actually happens]

I can only assume it's plumbed right as my plumber is reliable and knowledgeable [on a wide range of issues ðŸ˜€] and the water is going to the rads, it's just not as hot as it should be when it gets there.

I should add I live in a bungalow, stove at one end, rooms at the other. Could significant heat loss occur on journey down to the rooms? It doesn't with oil boiler so I'm stumped as to why it does with the stove.

Thanks for all your advice I'll take it on board and get another plumber to check it all out.

Failing that, I hope heat hero will come to my rescue.
I think a lot of people out there are unhappy with boiler stove performance so if heathero does all it says it can that guy will do very well for himself

my3cents · 11-03-2016 3:39pm

How much coal are you burning?

Good coal comes in at around 9KW output per kilogram. So if you started a fire at 6pm each night and ran it till 10pm at full output you'd use about 10kg of coal over 4hours in a 20KW stove.

Burn any less coal and your stove isn't producing its rated 20KW, Is the 20KW the back boiler output if so then the stove itself will loose 4-6KW heating the room increasing the amount of fuel needed by another 20%.

Joe1919 · 11-03-2016 10:47pm

http://www.torrens.org.uk/HowTo/Injector/

This guy above makes his own injector and nicely explains how and why it works? (in his case)

theduffer · 14-03-2016 11:52am

For the non plumbing folks out there does the injector talked about below do the same thing as the Heat Hero?

Joe1919 wrote: »

http://www.torrens.org.uk/HowTo/Injector/

This guy above makes his own injector and nicely explains how and why it works? (in his case)

my3cents · 14-03-2016 12:34pm

theduffer wrote: »

For the non plumbing folks out there does the injector talked about below do the same thing as the Heat Hero?

No, but you will probably find an injector in a lot of stove boiler installs, afaik it helps keep the water flowing in the right direction when there is a pump in one part of the circuit that could otherwise push water the wrong way around the system against the natural gravity flow. http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/injector-t-and-radiators/ explains it.

Joe1919 · 14-03-2016 6:37pm

bladewebdesigns.com/Piping%20and%20Instrumentation%20Diagram.pdf

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiqt5vJ2MDLAhXDPQ8KHW7MBZEQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbladewebdesigns.com%2FPiping%2520and%2520Instrumentation%2520Diagram.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF4O3kEAmC_AaP14iU0WGwPWCT-OA

The link above goes to pdf that gives a description of the internal workings of the return manifolds/injectors.

Wearb · 14-03-2016 7:54pm

With reference to the above diagram: Normally with an uncontrollable heat source, no restrictions are allowed to be installed on its primary circuit. On this there is a balancing valve on the expansion pipe. Is this a special exemption when using the injector manifold?

podge3 · 26-04-2016 2:23pm

Did anyone actually install this?

It sounds like an interesting device but the website makes little sense to me. There are a few Youtube vids which explain the device a bit better and (on the face of it, at least) may lead to a more even and better distribution of heat.

However, there is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to physics. If you have a 20 Kw stove then 20 Kw of energy will be produced (assuming correct fuel etc etc is used).

The facebook page has lots of likes and it has won a few awards.

davidhick77 · 02-12-2016 3:25pm

Spotted this product on the net a few days ago and if it does what it says on the tin should be a big help to my heating system but like many, I cant find anyone either who has installed one or homeowner who has had one fitted. 8 months or so since last post so I'm hoping someone has more info on the system by now.

johnytwentyten · 24-04-2017 10:09am

Hi, after being on dragons den last night does anyone have any thoughts on this now? Worth going for?

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2017 10:24am

johnytwentyten wrote: »

Hi, after being on dragons den last night does anyone have any thoughts on this now? Worth going for?

I am looking at it. I have a stove. At best I get luke warm radiators. Even after filling it full of coal. it might be option

The other option I was looking at was pulling the stove out altogether so this would be cheaper alternative

zg3409 · 24-04-2017 10:42pm

Having watched in on dragons den, and read this thread, and worked on making an open oil system closed, I have some idea of things, but I still cannot really understand this product fully. What I think I understand is:

1) It claims to take more heat per second from you boiler and bring it to radiators. I know many solid fuel stove systems tend to overheat the room with the stove, and not heat enough the other rooms.

2) It cannot create heat, only move the heat from the stove to somewhere else, as such, taking heat from the room with the stove, or burning the fuel quicker (which I do not think it can do, that is down to stove kw size)

The device itself has no moving parts (according to themselves) and is 2 items one with 3 connections and another with 4 connections.

My guesses:
It allows the pump to work better, and remove more heat from the stove, by moving more water through the stove per second, thus in theory increasing the equivalent 'size' of the back boiler, allowing less of the heat to heat the room with the stove.

The main problems I see:
1) It cannot create any heat, so all heat needs to be created in the stove. As such I cannot see any way it can improve the efficiency at the stove, except by heating the room with the stove less, and moving that heat to other rooms.

2) Any solid stove system needs to be open vented to prevent a pressure explosion, hence normally no valves between the boiler and the header tank.

3) Any properly stove properly sized to the size of house, matched to the insulation of the house, and with the right pump and system, should work OK by itself. The main real world problem may be sizing issues, but also people who are not at home all day, and expect a lit fire to be the same as an oil/gas burner on a timer, which potentially could have a higher output power, but also gives max output in seconds, and can be set to heat before arriving home.

Here is a heat hero actual picture with diagram on the unit:
http://borustoves.ie/blog/heat-hero-improving-solid-fuel-boiler/

INSTALL MANUAL HERE:
https://thegascompany.ie/iopen24/pub/heat_hero/HEAT-HERO-Installation-and-Technical-Manual1.pdf

Questions:
What does this 3 & 4 port device do, if all it does is make the pump work a bit better (which is what he seems to say) and so it can shift the heat to the radiators better, then is it sort of a one way or mixing valve?

Is there an equivalent device already in use, such as 3 port switches, which do the same?

From my guessing it is some sort of injector tee, and I have seen a one way valve in one of the diagrams. So what makes this so unique?

Here is one with a diagram similar?
http://www.topline.ie/plumbing-heating/plumbing/pipe-fittings/brass-fittings/easi-plumb/brass-compression-injector-tee-1in

Here are ones for 20 sterling:
http://www.injector-tee.co.uk/compression.html

Heat hero is 280 Euro (inc vat) here
https://www.stakelums.ie/product/heat-hero-kit/

It seems as if stove manufacturers recommend injector tees to prevent the pump wasting some of its energy pumping in unnecessary circles, and it would also mean the pump is more likely to move the hot water towards distant radiators.

My best guess it this is what he has inside the magic box, which could help in wrongly set up systems.

However it would not solve too small stoves, or not being home to light the stove, or having a plumber that does not have a clue how to balance & size all the radiators to ensure each room get the correct amount of heat.

If we assume it does a similar job to 2 or 3 injector tees then for 280 Euro you get 2 or 3 injector tees worth 50 Euro!
On top of that it needs to be installed by a plumber, who may or may not know what to do once it is put in the system.

What what do other couch experts think?

rustynutz · 30-04-2017 10:33am

I am having issues with my stove not heating all my rads, I got a plumber (recommended by a friend) out to take a look at it. He strongly advised fitting one of these HH manifolds, he said he was sceptical at first but took a gamble and fitted one in his sisters house when she was having similar issues with her stove, he said the results were amazing. He has since fitted half a dozen of them with great results. Now I am only going by his word, but he seemed like an experienced plumber and not someone to be taken in by the latest snake oil.

I hadn't heard of the product so like the OP I googled it but couldn't find much on it. I'm undecided about fitting it, my friend (who recommended the plumber) is getting one fitted in his house shortly so I will wait and see how he gets on before deciding.

podge3 · 09-05-2017 8:58pm

I got a Heat Hero installed a few weeks back. While I haven't lit a big fire since, I'm pretty sure it does what it says on the tin.

A bit of background on my system. My house had OFCH and I fitted a stove about 4 years ago. The stove worked fine and I had plenty of hot water. Some of the rads furthest away from the stove could have been a little warmer but the oil wasn't much better.

The main reason I fitted the HH was that I couldn't run the oil and stove at the same time. I did a lot of research and spoke to Art at HH a few times before I finally decided to go down this route.

My first impression when I opened the box was that the RRP of €280 was quite expensive. While I knew what it was before I purchased, when you see it in the metal it really hard to justify the price IMHO. I can't see it costing any more than €50 to manufacture, box etc. Even allowing for other costs and a bit of profit, I think €99 would be more than fair.

Anyhoo, I suppose the price is irrelevant to some degree and I can certainly run the stove & oil together now. I must re-balance the system as I also ran additional pipes to the cylinder and fitted a larger cylinder with a dual coil so the system is now out of balance.

It'll probably be next winter now before I give it a good run but I'm very happy with the initial results.

BTW, I purchased my HH on eBay. Seller (MOD EDIT, REMOVED LINK) accepted an offer of £185 with free delivery so saves a bit on the RRP.

MOD Note: If any readers need seller info on this item please pm this message poster.

Dtp1979 · 09-05-2017 10:39pm

podge3 wrote: »

I got a Heat Hero installed a few weeks back. While I haven't lit a big fire since, I'm pretty sure it does what it says on the tin.

A bit of background on my system. My house had OFCH and I fitted a stove about 4 years ago. The stove worked fine and I had plenty of hot water. Some of the rads furthest away from the stove could have been a little warmer but the oil wasn't much better.

The main reason I fitted the HH was that I couldn't run the oil and stove at the same time. I did a lot of research and spoke to Art at HH a few times before I finally decided to go down this route.

My first impression when I opened the box was that the RRP of €280 was quite expensive. While I knew what it was before I purchased, when you see it in the metal it really hard to justify the price IMHO. I can't see it costing any more than €50 to manufacture, box etc. Even allowing for other costs and a bit of profit, I think €99 would be more than fair.

Anyhoo, I suppose the price is irrelevant to some degree and I can certainly run the stove & oil together now. I must re-balance the system as I also ran additional pipes to the cylinder and fitted a larger cylinder with a dual coil so the system is now out of balance.

It'll probably be next winter now before I give it a good run but I'm very happy with the initial results.

BTW, I purchased my HH on eBay. Seller (MOD EDIT, REMOVED LINK) accepted an offer of £185 with free delivery so saves a bit on the RRP.

MOD Note: If any readers need seller info on this item please pm this message poster.

The reason you couldn't run the oil and solid fuel together isn't because you hadn't a HH on the system, it's because the system was piped incorrectly to start with

Heat Hero Manifold

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