Grass measuring 2015

BG2.0 · 12-11-2015 5:52pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

Soil indeces will never be 4 here as there's just too much grass being taken off. The best we can do is maintain it at 3. Nitrates won't allow it be improved without mining it off other ground, which is what's happening to a degree.

Ph can of course be maintained and farm average is >6 but as you know needs continual attention

That's what i was going to ask next, not really possible to push growth and build without hitting someone else on rented ground.
Awkward question but in x years time do you move to somewhere else for rented ground when what you have gets too tired to recoup costs or... hope for an amnesty! Guys worried for what a Phosphorus directive will have instore?!

frazzledhome · 12-11-2015 6:38pm

BG2.0 wrote: »

That's what i was going to ask next, not really possible to push growth and build without hitting someone else on rented ground.
Awkward question but in x years time do you move to somewhere else for rented ground when what you have gets too tired to recoup costs or... hope for an amnesty! Guys worried for what a Phosphorus directive will have instore?!

Great question. All land on long term lease + owned. We're toying with having only cows, just 3 wks Fr ai and then HE Bulls with all bar first born dairy heifers sold. If short of reps buying in balance.

I can see more silage being bought in as quiet frankly we can't grow as cheaply as some are willing to sell it.

That's only one option that's being considered. We need to invest heavily in calf housing if we want to keep to current numbers of replacements, that's also a consideration.

Jury's out

Milked out · 12-11-2015 7:27pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

Great question. All land on long term lease + owned. We're toying with having only cows, just 3 wks Fr ai and then HE Bulls with all bar first born dairy heifers sold. If short of reps buying in balance.

I can see more silage being bought in as quiet frankly we can't grow as cheaply as some are willing to sell it.

That's only one option that's being considered. We need to invest heavily in calf housing if we want to keep to current numbers of replacements, that's also a consideration.

Jury's out

Do u reckon u will be able to get silage as good as u would grow yourself or will u still cut enough for milkers off platform from surpluses?

trixi2011 · 12-11-2015 7:47pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

All cows housed here. Closed a 670 about 70 higher than planned, so happy out.

18.6 tonnes grown on milking platform (:)). Grew 20 last week. No change in performance since cows housed. 3 kg 16% up from 12% and all silage. The bales being fed are 42% DM and 76 dmd.

Cows doing 14.7 litres @ 5.03 fat and 4.13p.

Serious growth there frazz you going to up the stocking rate on the back of it.?

frazzledhome · 12-11-2015 7:55pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Serious growth there frazz you going to up the stocking rate on the back of it.?

Yes, still working on finding the limit here. If I could get over my personal issues with being unable to sell breeding stock I might be wealthy some day

frazzledhome · 13-11-2015 11:59am

Milked out wrote: »

Do u reckon u will be able to get silage as good as u would grow yourself or will u still cut enough for milkers off platform from surpluses?

Will get most of milking cow silage from surplus bales. I can buy rest and instead of waiting for it to bulk we can cut at quality stage. I value silage on DM not tonnes fresh or having contractor on his knees.

But then............ The best laid plans

Brown Podzol · 13-11-2015 5:55pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

Will get most of milking cow silage from surplus bales. I can buy rest and instead of waiting for it to bulk we can cut at quality stage. I value silage on DM not tonnes fresh or having contractor on his knees.

But then............ The best laid plans

I buy about half my grass silage needs. You do loose control to an extent over quality but to counteract this I ensile some maize and cows are dried off in the condition I want them to calve in, so bought in silage is dry cow feed and young stock feed. Saying that the bought in silage this year is all in the mid 70's dmd.

Greengrass1 · 16-11-2015 2:57pm

13.4 t grass grown here this yr.
Surprised with a few paddocks. One I would have been full sure should be reseeded is 2nd highest yielder here growing 17t.

Aim next yr is to grow 16t. Should get very close to it seeing as 50% of the farm is rreseeded it last 3 yrs and over 80% in last 10 yrs we also also cut back on N in certain periods this yr

Brown Podzol · 16-11-2015 5:03pm

Grown 17 ton here, all indexes at 4 but ph over the farm in 5.9. Spreading 2 ton of lime over the whole farm. Only 20% reseeded over the last 10 years and I don't see the need to do any more as all paddocks pretty even.Some tweaking and hopefully we'll get nearer to frazz. Just 10 rotations, should be another one at least and take out bales quicker, spent too much time waiting for dry days this year.

mahoney_j · 27-11-2015 3:17pm

Cows housed full time Monday ,could of grazed another 2 paddocks ,did walk this am clising cover on milk block 740 .intended to close at 650 but exceptional growth for last few weeks .nicely set up for Feb 1 2016 .have to organise soil test for dero before end of year too .

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-11-2015 4:40pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Cows housed full time Monday ,could of grazed another 2 paddocks ,did walk this am clising cover on milk block 740 .intended to close at 650 but exceptional growth for last few weeks .nicely set up for Feb 1 2016 .have to organise soil test for dero before end of year too .

Growth was unreal here as well.

A few paddocks near the yard that got watery slurry before the closing date at up at 1600. They will be grazed with younger calves outwintered instead of further away paddocks, I would be a bit worried about carrying very high covers over to spring?

mahoney_j · 27-11-2015 4:56pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Growth was unreal here as well.

A few paddocks near the yard that got watery slurry before the closing date at up at 1600. They will be grazed with younger calves outwintered instead of further away paddocks, I would be a bit worried about carrying very high covers over to spring?

Highest here 1600 as well ,no worries carrying them through winter ,be worth a lot more next spring to milkers

Timmaay · 27-11-2015 5:30pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Growth was unreal here as well.

A few paddocks near the yard that got watery slurry before the closing date at up at 1600. They will be grazed with younger calves outwintered instead of further away paddocks, I would be a bit worried about carrying very high covers over to spring?

Once your afc is high enough, it's a win win, your calves get cheap very good energy, grazing conditions are still good at the sec (what will it be like in Feb), and the calves will do less damage than the cows.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-11-2015 6:10pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Once your afc is high enough, it's a win win, your calves get cheap very good energy, grazing conditions are still good at the sec (what will it be like in Feb), and the calves will do less damage than the cows.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Highest here 1600 as well ,no worries carrying them through winter ,be worth a lot more next spring to milkers

We normally get good growths through winter so those would be well over 1800 by February. I would have a bit of concern at leaving that high a cover in case of bad weather. Some covers at 10-1200 would be up towards the 1600 by then, enough to see me through to good growths in March, hopefully.

Still learning this grass management stuff, so thanks for that.:)

Greengrass1 · 27-11-2015 6:21pm

Was at a farm walk back in October.
These figures are based on the farm we were on now but it's very easy to scale it back to your own farm.
If said farm opened at 450 it would cost him 13k in meal and 7k in silage over what he would have to feed to keep stock fed,area grazed on target and farm cover on target
If said farm opened at 800 afc it would cost him 13k in meal over what he would feed to keep cowsfed, keep farm cover on target and area grazed on target.

Now if he opened at an afc of 1000 he would save the 13k in meal and 7 k in silage as there would be enough grass to be fed.

This was a programme done out by moorepark. Hopefully going to be up on pasturebase.
Basicly the farmer had to close at 700 to hit 1000 opening cover based on historic growth rates etc.

mahoney_j · 27-11-2015 7:39pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was at a farm walk back in October.
These figures are based on the farm we were on now but it's very easy to scale it back to your own farm.
If said farm opened at 450 it would cost him 13k in meal and 7k in silage over what he would have to feed to keep stock fed,area grazed on target and farm cover on target
If said farm opened at 800 afc it would cost him 13k in meal over what he would feed to keep cowsfed, keep farm cover on target and area grazed on target.

Now if he opened at an afc of 1000 he would save the 13k in meal and 7 k in silage as there would be enough grass to be fed.

This was a programme done out by moorepark. Hopefully going to be up on pasturebase.
Basicly the farmer had to close at 700 to hit 1000 opening cover based on historic growth rates etc.

So open at 1000 and no meal or silage ???ill probably open at 1000 and higher but meal and silage will both be fed to stretch first rotation till early April and most importantly keep energy and dm I takes high in early lactation so she will hit and hold peak longer and be in ideal condition score for breeding

boggerman1 · 27-11-2015 7:48pm

Feeding meal is not the dirty word that jack Kennedy and the rest would l like u to believe.wouldn't love to see my cows come end of March/1st week of April on a grass only diet just cause I have enough grass in theory on a spreadsheet.I fed strong this yr and it paid off big time.cows in better nick,milked savagely and most importantly only 5 cows out of 70 empty

visatorro · 27-11-2015 7:50pm

Greengrass1 wrote:

Now if he opened at an afc of 1000 he would save the 13k in meal and 7 k in silage as there would be enough grass to be fed.

have to say I don't like these assumptions. these things were fired at people ten years ago. but are based on a ifj model farm with a large land base with dry land. sorry I forgot cows don't damage paddocks, farmers do. they told lads to up number and cut less silage sure you'll be out in January it'll be grand. then comes this thing called bad weather,. it'll be alright I'll feed silage, oh wait the guy at his desk told me to make less silage il save a fortune, oops.

visatorro · 27-11-2015 7:53pm

visatorro wrote:

have to say I don't like these assumptions. these things were fired at people ten years ago. but are based on a ifj model farm with a large land base with dry land. sorry I forgot cows don't damage paddocks, farmers do. they told lads to up number and cut less silage sure you'll be out in January it'll be grand. then comes this thing called bad weather,. it'll be alright I'll feed silage, oh wait the guy at his desk told me to make less silage il save a fortune, oops.

oh and they'll fire out 30 litres and go back incalf with just the bull looking at her. simples

Greengrass1 · 27-11-2015 8:05pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

So open at 1000 and no meal or silage ???ill probably open at 1000 and higher but meal and silage will both be fed to stretch first rotation till early April and most importantly keep energy and dm I takes high in early lactation so she will hit and hold peak longer and be in ideal condition score for breeding

Ye didnt read what I wrote mj.

I said meal and silage over amd above what would be required. I never said no meal or no silage.
It was to show how much money would be saved

Greengrass1 · 27-11-2015 8:07pm

visatorro wrote: »

have to say I don't like these assumptions. these things were fired at people ten years ago. but are based on a ifj model farm with a large land base with dry land. sorry I forgot cows don't damage paddocks, farmers do. they told lads to up number and cut less silage sure you'll be out in January it'll be grand. then comes this thing called bad weather,. it'll be alright I'll feed silage, oh wait the guy at his desk told me to make less silage il save a fortune, oops.

Ffs lads ye didn't read what I said.

Go back and read it again.

I said meal and silage over what would be required if he had opened at 1000 afc.
I never said anything about less silage being fed or cows not been fed enough

mahoney_j · 27-11-2015 8:36pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ye didnt read what I wrote mj.

I said meal and silage over amd above what would be required. I never said no meal or no silage.
It was to show how much money would be saved

Open at 1k and he saved 13 k in meal and 7 k in silage as there would be enough grass to be fed emplies grass and no meal or silo to me ,maby I picked u up wrong ..so what figure was given as to meal and silage used on top of grass in spring !??.id always question guys pushing cows on grass and little else after calving in spring ,it's a great chance to set up a herd for a good production peak and keep and maintain condition score rather than put stock on oad etc etc

Greengrass1 · 27-11-2015 9:02pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Open at 1k and he saved 13 k in meal and 7 k in silage as there would be enough grass to be fed emplies grass and no meal or silo to me ,maby I picked u up wrong ..so what figure was given as to meal and silage used on top of grass in spring !??.id always question guys pushing cows on grass and little else after calving in spring ,it's a great chance to set up a herd for a good production peak and keep and maintain condition score rather than put stock on oad etc etc

I'll explain it this way to you.
Say you opened at 450 instead of your 1000 or 1100
Wouldn't it cost you a bomb to feed them over what it would have if you opened at 1100?
That's the point I was making. Silage and meal was still included in the program.

The idea was this lad and most farmers are increasing sr.
They might be growing the tonnes over all but there afc will need to be higher in the spring to accommodate these.
It used the sr (oct1st) today and what the sr will be on the 10th April when 2nd round started.
It worked back from there to closing using historic growth rates (farm measuring for last 10 yrs so had alot if different winters included) from previous winters you worked out what afc you needed to close at to make sure you wouldn't have to feed this extra silage or meal.

Get where I'm coming from now?
I need to open at 1000 but ill still be feeding 2-3kg meal until 2nd round starts

mahoney_j · 27-11-2015 9:25pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I'll explain it this way to you.
Say you opened at 450 instead of your 1000 or 1100
Wouldn't it cost you a bomb to feed them over what it would have if you opened at 1100?
That's the point I was making. Silage and meal was still included in the program.

The idea was this lad and most farmers are increasing sr.
They might be growing the tonnes over all but there afc will need to be higher in the spring to accommodate these.
It used the sr (oct1st) today and what the sr will be on the 10th April when 2nd round started.
It worked back from there to closing using historic growth rates (farm measuring for last 10 yrs so had alot if different winters included) from previous winters you worked out what afc you needed to close at to make sure you wouldn't have to feed this extra silage or meal.

Get where I'm coming from now?
I need to open at 1000 but ill still be feeding 2-3kg meal until 2nd round starts

Agh him a bit slow sure ,I know where ur coming from though I'll open at well over 1000 on Feb 1 but will feed strong early ,both meal and wraps to set herd up for year as well as making max use of grass

Milked out · 27-11-2015 9:45pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I'll explain it this way to you.
Say you opened at 450 instead of your 1000 or 1100
Wouldn't it cost you a bomb to feed them over what it would have if you opened at 1100?
That's the point I was making. Silage and meal was still included in the program.

The idea was this lad and most farmers are increasing sr.
They might be growing the tonnes over all but there afc will need to be higher in the spring to accommodate these.
It used the sr (oct1st) today and what the sr will be on the 10th April when 2nd round started.
It worked back from there to closing using historic growth rates (farm measuring for last 10 yrs so had alot if different winters included) from previous winters you worked out what afc you needed to close at to make sure you wouldn't have to feed this extra silage or meal.

Get where I'm coming from now?
I need to open at 1000 but ill still be feeding 2-3kg meal until 2nd round starts

Did he work out what extra cost feeding at the end of the year would be in order to have those covers in spring and how much it would r impact in terms of reduced solids at end of year etc? Good point made all the same, used to high demand here in spring but half of farm wet so have to buffer or keep in at night well into spring most years unless an exceptional dry spring but with winter milk used to milking indoors as well

Greengrass1 · 27-11-2015 10:25pm

Milked out wrote: »

Did he work out what extra cost feeding at the end of the year would be in order to have those covers in spring and how much it would r impact in terms of reduced solids at end of year etc? Good point made all the same, used to high demand here in spring but half of farm wet so have to buffer or keep in at night well into spring most years unless an exceptional dry spring but with winter milk used to milking indoors as well

Farm we were on was v lowly stocked after new ground was taken on and reseeded. Waa very easy fir him to build grass this yr where other yrs he struggled and was doing everything that yiur supposed to do to nuikd grass. He had too much grass the day we were there.
They hope to have that programme up on pasturebase next for all to use.
You can put in all you different scenarios eg feeding extra meal/silage to build covers like you mentioned there or a cold winter with no growth etc.
It's really just trying to help the farmer be one step ahead again

Deepsouthwest · 28-11-2015 12:35am

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Farm we were on was v lowly stocked after new ground was taken on and reseeded. Waa very easy fir him to build grass this yr where other yrs he struggled and was doing everything that yiur supposed to do to nuikd grass. He had too much grass the day we were there.
They hope to have that programme up on pasturebase next for all to use.
You can put in all you different scenarios eg feeding extra meal/silage to build covers like you mentioned there or a cold winter with no growth etc.
It's really just trying to help the farmer be one step ahead again

I think ur last line is the most relevant in all of this. People love picking holes in any new Teagasc advice, always trying to find reasons why it won't work, instead of taking the positive points and seeing the advantages that might be gained if it did work.
As I've said here before, Teagasc aren't trying to sell u anything, their sole mantra is trying to get farmers to hold onto more of their own money.

Timmaay · 28-11-2015 1:02am

+1000 to this DSW! Without teagasc, where would the average dairy farmer in Ireland be?? I'd hazard a guess there would be a lot fewer of us, and the ones who did survive would be up to their eyeballs in debt, concrete left right and centre, TMR and 2tons+ of concentrates feed per cow, and of course the lovely shiny Keenan running flatout most the year!

mahoney_j · 28-11-2015 1:28am

Different strokes lads ,different farms require different methods and as long as money is been made it don't matter a ****e ,I'd certainly take lots of things Tegasc preach but also bits they don't or maby don't want to

jack o shea · 28-11-2015 2:05am

wouldnt take any notice of what jack kennedy or any of them boys say, i give the cows a few pound of meal all year round even in mid summer and a heap of grass around the place.

Grass measuring 2015

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