Farming costs

mf2909 · 19-04-2015 10:03pm #1

Hi All,
I keep 17 suckler cows and just few replacements each year. I do ok on selling the weanlings but its keeping the books balanced thats getting me. Between all payments i get about €11k, Sales are based on 13 wealings i suppose avge at €750/800. I keep the farm money seperate and make it pay its own way. Ive done lot of reseeding eac year but have lot more to do. I have now after all paid up to date incl fertiliser abou €3000 in the account. Each year i have to get a top up loan to get me through the summer. I just get 5K. I do the accounts each year and im told this is the case for most suckler farmers. Is this real? I work part time but am not entitled to any social welfare as mrs is working. Apparently she can keep me in pocket money. I try each year to make an improvement but i cant really get anywhere. Its a 40 ac farm with mixed land. winter is a 5/6 month affair. Heres an idea of expense, Fertiliser x €3500, Silage bales x 170 @ €13.50 cut baled and wrapped in field. Reseeding last year cost few thousand as i had to drain as well, Machine man got 1200, gravel man got €1500, power harrowing and seeding €270, no ploughing. Then thers the meal costs , diesel,fencing etc but the one thing is i never take a wage from it. It pays 1 or 2 bills for me that would total €1000 approx. Are others in the same boat?

bonaparte2 · 19-04-2015 10:07pm

Rent your land for 5 yrs and get tax free money . Beef is marginally profitable and at your scale a waste of time .

bonaparte2 · 19-04-2015 10:08pm

40 acres 4k minimum rent

mf2909 · 19-04-2015 10:08pm

I suppose its the stubborn pride in me that likes it and wants to make a go of it. What about sheep?

rangler1 · 19-04-2015 10:21pm

mf2909 wrote: »

I suppose its the stubborn pride in me that likes it and wants to make a go of it. What about sheep?

On most farm enterprises costs are increasing faster than turnover and with the pressure from the multiples, I can't see product prices increasing.
Glad you like it and want to make a go of it, have you entitlements, because without the cheque in the post it'll be very hard to even break even.
If you haven't subsidies, I'd advise to talk to Teagasc/ag consultant

dh1985 · 19-04-2015 10:25pm

3500 for fertiliser sounds extremely high. It's over four bags to the acre (rough calculations). Run a similar size farm to yours and fertiliser bill was 1440 last year. And grass would never be scarce at that. Especially with reseeding it sounds excessive. Do you use a paddock system

raypallas · 19-04-2015 10:43pm

We run a 100 acre farm and fert bill would only be a little higher than yours. Are there any piggeries in your area?Would you try and get some pig slurry spread on your land to help reduce the fertiliser bill. There normally mad looking to get rid of it.

Miname · 19-04-2015 11:15pm

170 bales needed of bulk il presume for sucklers so say 12 acres grass should take no more than 700 euros worth of Fert. 1.5 bags for the rest as grazing will come in around the same. The 13.5 for baling should be around €2 cheaper. That's only the start of it. You have to be desperate miserable to survive at suckling.

_Brian · 20-04-2015 11:46am

mf2909 wrote: »

Hi All,
I keep 17 suckler cows and just few replacements each year. I do ok on selling the weanlings but its keeping the books balanced thats getting me. Between all payments i get about €11k, Sales are based on 13 wealings i suppose avge at €750/800. I keep the farm money seperate and make it pay its own way. Ive done lot of reseeding eac year but have lot more to do. I have now after all paid up to date incl fertiliser abou €3000 in the account. Each year i have to get a top up loan to get me through the summer. I just get 5K. I do the accounts each year and im told this is the case for most suckler farmers. Is this real? I work part time but am not entitled to any social welfare as mrs is working. Apparently she can keep me in pocket money. I try each year to make an improvement but i cant really get anywhere. Its a 40 ac farm with mixed land. winter is a 5/6 month affair. Heres an idea of expense, Fertiliser x €3500, Silage bales x 170 @ €13.50 cut baled and wrapped in field. Reseeding last year cost few thousand as i had to drain as well, Machine man got 1200, gravel man got €1500, power harrowing and seeding €270, no ploughing. Then thers the meal costs , diesel,fencing etc but the one thing is i never take a wage from it. It pays 1 or 2 bills for me that would total €1000 approx. Are others in the same boat?

I think this is fairly typical.. the main difference in yourself and many smaller suckler men is that you keep the farm money separate and see just how marginal it is..
Many, many lads have no idea how they stand !!

My only comments are as others have said to see can you reduce your fertilizer bills as they seem high, have you taken soil samples to see the state of affairs, more and more fertilizer may just see diminishing returns through an imbalance.
Weanling sales, maybe through breeding you could get a bit more, an extra €100 a head would be noticeable.

Maybe your improving at too fast a rate, dairy for example will allow for much more reseeding each year than the turnover in sucklers would allow for.

But at best for maybe 90% suckling is a marginal business, allot of work and risk (physical and financial) for minimal rewards. Many aim to break even on farming to hold onto the SFP for themselves.

AP2014 · 20-04-2015 12:03pm

mf2909 wrote: »

Hi All,
I keep 17 suckler cows and just few replacements each year. I do ok on selling the weanlings but its keeping the books balanced thats getting me. Between all payments i get about €11k, Sales are based on 13 wealings i suppose avge at €750/800. I keep the farm money seperate and make it pay its own way. Ive done lot of reseeding eac year but have lot more to do. I have now after all paid up to date incl fertiliser abou €3000 in the account. Each year i have to get a top up loan to get me through the summer. I just get 5K. I do the accounts each year and im told this is the case for most suckler farmers. Is this real? I work part time but am not entitled to any social welfare as mrs is working. Apparently she can keep me in pocket money. I try each year to make an improvement but i cant really get anywhere. Its a 40 ac farm with mixed land. winter is a 5/6 month affair. Heres an idea of expense, Fertiliser x €3500, Silage bales x 170 @ €13.50 cut baled and wrapped in field. Reseeding last year cost few thousand as i had to drain as well, Machine man got 1200, gravel man got €1500, power harrowing and seeding €270, no ploughing. Then thers the meal costs , diesel,fencing etc but the one thing is i never take a wage from it. It pays 1 or 2 bills for me that would total €1000 approx. Are others in the same boat?

Might be worth holding off on some reseeding this year and see can you get into Glas. Low input perm pasture might be more cost efficient than reseeded ground growing great grass for the system of farming you are in.

Might not be what way you want to see your land but from an economical point of view it will pay better.

Willfarman · 20-04-2015 12:31pm

If you could get a good tenant and some full time work then renting is definately better on paper but in practice good tenants are a rare breed. I would kick them sucklers up the road and go a combination of sheep and some kind of yearling to beef or yearling to store system. This ensures a constant cash flow and maximum grass utilisation. My tuppence worth!&#55356;&#57190;enjoy the sunshine

noworries2004 · 20-04-2015 1:40pm

"Rent your land for 5 yrs and get tax free money ."

How do you get Tax free money???

Nekarsulm · 20-04-2015 1:53pm

noworries2004 wrote: »

"Rent your land for 5 yrs and get tax free money ."

How do you get Tax free money???

Because if you enter into a correctly organised lease agreement for a period of 5 years, the rent received is treated differently to a "year by year" rental set up.

ganmo · 20-04-2015 1:57pm

noworries2004 wrote: »

"Rent your land for 5 yrs and get tax free money ."

How do you get Tax free money???

Have a good accountant

Came in with the last budget, income from long term land leases are income tax exempt

CloughCasey1 · 20-04-2015 2:07pm

If you bought in HEX or AAX runners (3-4mts) in April/may and keep for one winter on only 1kg meal with 0.25kg soya added to build up their frame you could have a lot higher stocking rate. You can sell at 16-18mts. Outlay possibly €450 per head MAX and out at 18mts approx €950. €500 margin per animal x 30 leaves you an extra 5k to what you are doing now. 40 Acres would run 30 handy to keep them ticking along without a major amount of fert. 1.5 bags per acre 18-6-12 to keep NP&K ticking over per acre. No big heavy cows poaching, no calving, no wild weanlings, little or no mortality, quiet animals as they would be bucket reared. Break them into two groups of 15 in one acre paddocks changed over every 3-4 days and your elected.

CloughCasey1 · 20-04-2015 2:08pm

never asked could you house 30 for winter?

mf2909 · 20-04-2015 2:58pm

_Brian wrote: »

I think this is fairly typical.. the main difference in yourself and many smaller suckler men is that you keep the farm money separate and see just how marginal it is..
Many, many lads have no idea how they stand !!

My only comments are as others have said to see can you reduce your fertilizer bills as they seem high, have you taken soil samples to see the state of affairs, more and more fertilizer may just see diminishing returns through an imbalance.
Weanling sales, maybe through breeding you could get a bit more, an extra €100 a head would be noticeable.

Maybe your improving at too fast a rate, dairy for example will allow for much more reseeding each year than the turnover in sucklers would allow for.

But at best for maybe 90% suckling is a marginal business, allot of work and risk (physical and financial) for minimal rewards. Many aim to break even on farming to hold onto the SFP for themselves.

Thanks , Yes my accountant said that too about keeping the money seperate. Im looking at all options besides as sucklers just dont add up. I sold some through a breeding group this year. They were nice stuff and had all the ICBF figures etc but i got the feeling from talking to lot of fellas that "sure its one of them sales and fellas pay mad money and sure paper wont refuse ink".
Dairy is out for me.

mf2909 · 20-04-2015 3:01pm

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

never asked could you house 30 for winter?

I could yes but then i would have a silage bill, fertiliser too.

mf2909 · 20-04-2015 3:04pm

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If you bought in HEX or AAX runners (3-4mts) in April/may and keep for one winter on only 1kg meal with 0.25kg soya added to build up their frame you could have a lot higher stocking rate. You can sell at 16-18mts. Outlay possibly €450 per head MAX and out at 18mts approx €950. €500 margin per animal x 30 leaves you an extra 5k to what you are doing now. 40 Acres would run 30 handy to keep them ticking along without a major amount of fert. 1.5 bags per acre 18-6-12 to keep NP&K ticking over per acre. No big heavy cows poaching, no calving, no wild weanlings, little or no mortality, quiet animals as they would be bucket reared. Break them into two groups of 15 in one acre paddocks changed over every 3-4 days and your elected.

I like your idea of the crosses, Im a simmental man as such but open to others too. I have tried few times to buy simmental heifirs at mart but when you have a fella stand with his hand up beside you bidding its hard to win. No point paying mad money. Are you ionto this type of farming as you seem to have it well costed / prepared? Woudl you be buying heifirs or bulls above? Selling in mart or factory?

mf2909 · 20-04-2015 3:06pm

Willfarman wrote: »

If you could get a good tenant and some full time work then renting is definately better on paper but in practice good tenants are a rare breed. I would kick them sucklers up the road and go a combination of sheep and some kind of yearling to beef or yearling to store system. This ensures a constant cash flow and maximum grass utilisation. My tuppence worth!��enjoy the sunshine

Thanks, yes that is in my mind too

mf2909 · 20-04-2015 3:09pm

Thanks for all the replies above. Im currently in AEOS and im holding off on GLAS yet. My adviser when i went into AEOS said sure you have good ground really so it will be hard to make uop the money. SO on one hand we are being encouraged to farm well, have the land good etc and then on the other we are being paid to have wild meadows? Not matter which way its the costs thats killing us. If you sell an animal now for €1000 compare that animal to one sold back some years in pounds. That pound bought an awful lot more.

eorna · 20-04-2015 8:37pm

mf2909 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies above. Im currently in AEOS and im holding off on GLAS yet. My adviser when i went into AEOS said sure you have good ground really so it will be hard to make uop the money. SO on one hand we are being encouraged to farm well, have the land good etc and then on the other we are being paid to have wild meadows? Not matter which way its the costs thats killing us. If you sell an animal now for €1000 compare that animal to one sold back some years in pounds. That pound bought an awful lot more.

Having studied glas a bit i fail to understand how the government with the support of the usual farming organisations brings a scheme where you are rewarded for farming unproductively, have fields full of weeds, not sprayed, untopped until july, not reseeded and certainly not able to carry a fraction of the stock one could carry..
I know we needed an environmental scheme but the lad that farms at a productive level should be incentivised too..easy money and fair play if suits but where is that coming from i dont know..
As expressed by other posters one has to be fierce careful of expenses.. And expenses like reseeding in my opinion should be made only when they make economic sense.. Like carrying/ finishing more stock.. But that is only my opinion

CloughCasey1 · 20-04-2015 8:40pm

mf2909 wrote: »

I like your idea of the crosses, Im a simmental man as such but open to others too. I have tried few times to buy simmental heifirs at mart but when you have a fella stand with his hand up beside you bidding its hard to win. No point paying mad money. Are you ionto this type of farming as you seem to have it well costed / prepared? Woudl you be buying heifirs or bulls above? Selling in mart or factory?

I buy in sucks any breed as long as it seems like value. I then buy a few runners and later I buy in a few suckler weanlings. All through done deal.no farmer or trucker bidding against me.all bull calves. I kill some as bulls at 16mts and keep rest until approx 18mts as steers. Get them onto spring grass and mart for them.i always try and buy nov/dec calves so get two good spring/summers with grass. I only have 9 acres to use on farm as its FIL'S. At the minute I have 8, 16mt olds grazing 6 x 1 acre paddocks and 14 reared calves on newly seeded 3 acres in three strips. Working well at minute and as soon as grass tightens mart with older lot. I have to keep a good bit of fert going to keep it up. If I had 40 like our OP on freshly seeded grass id only need a bit of manure. The younger animals clean paddocks well also for grass management.

rangler1 · 20-04-2015 9:28pm

eorna wrote: »

Having studied glas a bit i fail to understand how the government with the support of the usual farming organisations brings a scheme where you are rewarded for farming unproductively, have fields full of weeds, not sprayed, untopped until july, not reseeded and certainly not able to carry a fraction of the stock one could carry..
I know we needed an environmental scheme but the lad that farms at a productive level should be incentivised too..easy money and fair play if suits but where is that coming from i dont know..
As expressed by other posters one has to be fierce careful of expenses.. And expenses like reseeding in my opinion should be made only when they make economic sense.. Like carrying/ finishing more stock.. But that is only my opinion

The EU has made the funding available in Pillar 2,they set the conditions and as you say the government with the support of the usual farming organisations brings a scheme where you are rewarded for farming unproductively environmentally friendly, that must comply with the conditions of pillar 2.
Pillar one funding is supposed to incentivise the lad that farms for production.
I'd agree with you on the reseeding, you need to be farming well to get an advantage out of it and if your farming well you'll have good quality grasses in the sward anyway

grassroot1 · 20-04-2015 10:29pm

mf2909 wrote: »

Hi All,
I keep 17 suckler cows and just few replacements each year. I do ok on selling the weanlings but its keeping the books balanced thats getting me. Between all payments i get about €11k, Sales are based on 13 wealings i suppose avge at €750/800. I keep the farm money seperate and make it pay its own way. Ive done lot of reseeding eac year but have lot more to do. I have now after all paid up to date incl fertiliser abou €3000 in the account. Each year i have to get a top up loan to get me through the summer. I just get 5K. I do the accounts each year and im told this is the case for most suckler farmers. Is this real? I work part time but am not entitled to any social welfare as mrs is working. Apparently she can keep me in pocket money. I try each year to make an improvement but i cant really get anywhere. Its a 40 ac farm with mixed land. winter is a 5/6 month affair. Heres an idea of expense, Fertiliser x €3500, Silage bales x 170 @ €13.50 cut baled and wrapped in field. Reseeding last year cost few thousand as i had to drain as well, Machine man got 1200, gravel man got €1500, power harrowing and seeding €270, no ploughing. Then thers the meal costs , diesel,fencing etc but the one thing is i never take a wage from it. It pays 1 or 2 bills for me that would total €1000 approx. Are others in the same boat?

You seem to be very lowly stocked aim for 2 l.u ha output equals profit more cows equal more weanlings to sell but 40 acres will never give you a fulltime living

Farmer Pudsey · 20-04-2015 11:33pm

mf2909 wrote: »

Hi All,
I keep 17 suckler cows and just few replacements each year. I do ok on selling the weanlings but its keeping the books balanced thats getting me. Between all payments i get about €11k, Sales are based on 13 wealings i suppose avge at €750/800. I keep the farm money seperate and make it pay its own way. Ive done lot of reseeding eac year but have lot more to do. I have now after all paid up to date incl fertiliser abou €3000 in the account. Each year i have to get a top up loan to get me through the summer. I just get 5K. I do the accounts each year and im told this is the case for most suckler farmers. Is this real? I work part time but am not entitled to any social welfare as mrs is working. Apparently she can keep me in pocket money. I try each year to make an improvement but i cant really get anywhere. Its a 40 ac farm with mixed land. winter is a 5/6 month affair. Heres an idea of expense, Fertiliser x €3500, Silage bales x 170 @ €13.50 cut baled and wrapped in field. Reseeding last year cost few thousand as i had to drain as well, Machine man got 1200, gravel man got €1500, power harrowing and seeding €270, no ploughing. Then thers the meal costs , diesel,fencing etc but the one thing is i never take a wage from it. It pays 1 or 2 bills for me that would total €1000 approx. Are others in the same boat?

Just a few things I notice you have 17 cows but only sell 13 weanlings is this due to calving losses or cows not calving every 12 months. You have near 33% of you cows producing nothing. Even if you reduced you Fertlizer bill in half and got silage costs back by 1 euro/bale in reality you are still at nothing. You are stocked at 1 suckler/HA which suggests you should be able to reduce your wintering period.

Some are suggesting you would get 200/acre for renting however I doubt if those on marginal land are getting that rental rate. Have came across a few longterm conacre rates that are at or only a little above 100/acre.

_Brian wrote: »

I think this is fairly typical.. the main difference in yourself and many smaller suckler men is that you keep the farm money separate and see just how marginal it is..
Many, many lads have no idea how they stand !!

My only comments are as others have said to see can you reduce your fertilizer bills as they seem high, have you taken soil samples to see the state of affairs, more and more fertilizer may just see diminishing returns through an imbalance.
Weanling sales, maybe through breeding you could get a bit more, an extra €100 a head would be noticeable.

Maybe your improving at too fast a rate, dairy for example will allow for much more reseeding each year than the turnover in sucklers would allow for.

But at best for maybe 90% suckling is a marginal business, allot of work and risk (physical and financial) for minimal rewards. Many aim to break even on farming to hold onto the SFP for themselves.

Even if OP did this all you are talking about is 1.5K/year extra. It depends on what he thinks is an adequate return. If he managed to cut costs of Fertlizer and bales by 2K, reduced investment by 1K, had a cull and calving policy that increased his calf o/p to 17/year and increased his calf value, he could increase profitability by 5-7K . it is all about putting a system in place.

Farrell · 21-04-2015 12:13am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Just a few things I notice you have 17 cows but only sell 13 weanlings is this due to calving losses or cows not calving every 12 months. You have near 33% of you cows producing nothing. Even if you reduced you Fertlizer bill in half and got silage costs back by 1 euro/bale in reality you are still at nothing. You are stocked at 1 suckler/HA which suggests you should be able to reduce your wintering period.

Some are suggesting you would get 200/acre for renting however I doubt if those on marginal land are getting that rental rate. Have came across a few longterm conacre rates that are at or only a little above 100/acre.

Even if OP did this all you are talking about is 1.5K/year extra. It depends on what he thinks is an adequate return. If he managed to cut costs of Fertlizer and bales by 2K, reduced investment by 1K, had a cull and calving policy that increased his calf o/p to 17/year and increased his calf value, he could increase profitability by 5-7K . it is all about putting a system in place.

I think the OP mentioned replacements, so could be 13+4?
Also with calf quality, I agree with better price per head but if sale was last Autumn, it was taking good calves to get that price.
Some years it pays to winter weanlings & this was 1 of them.

Farmer Pudsey · 21-04-2015 7:46am

Farrell wrote: »

I think the OP mentioned replacements, so could be 13+4?
Also with calf quality, I agree with better price per head but if sale was last Autumn, it was taking good calves to get that price.
Some years it pays to winter weanlings & this was 1 of them.

Replacement rate is very high if that is the case at 33%. He mentioned no of cows so I presume that this is the number of cows he carries. If he held 4 heifers for breeding as he is changing bull in a year time then that is well and good. However it skews his turnover/profit/loss figure.

I would not consider last autumn price for weanlings poor it was quite strong compared to processor price and within 100 euro of previous year if I remember right. For op to make increase his margin substancially his weanlings would need to exceed 1K. At 750-800 euro his calves must have been up above 350kgs if I am referencing last autumn's prices right. For him to hit 1K he need a price of 2.8/kg not sure if that is feasible for weanlings suitable for Irish market. If his calves were export quality 3/kg is usuall the max exporters pay.

Also like I also stated even if his calf prices rise by 100/head his margin is still negible

CloughCasey1 · 21-04-2015 8:58am

mf2909 wrote: »

I could yes but then i would have a silage bill, fertiliser too.

Fert prob can be less than you have already. Silage might be less also as you should be able to have them out until dec and back out weather permitting early march as they will be approx 360kg-410kg at that stage almost half weight of your cows. 5 weanlings will take one chopped fusion bale a wk. If you keep 30 thats 6bales a wk for average of 18wks thats 108 bales leaving around 60 to be sold at current rate normal year €25 euro per bale less your costs leaves €12 X 60.

onyerbikepat · 21-04-2015 9:32am

OP, you need to seriously look at off-farm full time work. You can be the best farmer in the world, but you won't improve your income that much.
We have a similar size farm. Even my grandfather, in his time, worked off farm.
The trick then is to try and run things as smoothly as possible, with the miniumum of time spent farming. Good luck on that one. I'm clocking in over 12 hours every day working at the moment. Making the most of the dry weather, fencing etc.

Miname · 21-04-2015 12:54pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

OP, you need to seriously look at off-farm full time work. You can be the best farmer in the world, but you won't improve your income that much.
We have a similar size farm. Even my grandfather, in his time, worked off farm.
The trick then is to try and run things as smoothly as possible, with the miniumum of time spent farming. Good luck on that one. I'm clocking in over 12 hours every day working at the moment. Making the most of the dry weather, fencing etc.

There's the thing, even the fencing is a cost that needs to be worked over. I've a lad at home fencing mine cause he can do it for substantially less than I can earn today and he'll probably do a far better job. Too much work is being undertaken with farmers that should be subbed out.

Farmer Pudsey · 21-04-2015 1:45pm

Miname wrote: »

There's the thing, even the fencing is a cost that needs to be worked over. I've a lad at home fencing mine cause he can do it for substantially less than I can earn today and he'll probably do a far better job. Too much work is being undertaken with farmers that should be subbed out.

I have a lad that will come in and drive the posts I can then fence away or the young lad can. Recently got 150 posts driven for 250 euro

AP2014 · 21-04-2015 1:53pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have a lad that will come in and drive the posts I can then fence away or the young lad can. Recently got 150 posts driven for 250 euro

Jaysus that's good value, did it take him long?

Farmer Pudsey · 21-04-2015 2:10pm

AP2014 wrote: »

Jaysus that's good value, did it take him long?

About 6 hours he put my young lad driving the tractor so he did not have to hop up and down. Alot of this was fencing repairs and we were driving posts through stony ground at times. He is an excellent operator especially when you hit a problem spot seldom ruins a post we did not lose any the last day.

Eldest lad and myself are doing a paddock ever second day we go in remove wire off broken or bad stake and attaching it to new stage. we have two runs which are newly done these will take half a day. Will have aserious amount of fencing done for 1K

Username John · 21-04-2015 2:19pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have a lad that will come in and drive the posts I can then fence away or the young lad can. Recently got 150 posts driven for 250 euro

Do the same there, find that stakes put in with the post driver are a super job.

Got 80 put it at the weekend, I dont have the bill yet, but it only took over an hour (him plus his young fella on the tractor) It was all around one 2acre field, so he flew through em...

DonAndy1 · 01-05-2015 4:28pm

Hi there,
has anyone fallen victim to a tree/reps planner in the west of ireland.
we are held up on our 2014 payment and dont seem to be getting any info from dept .
anyone any knowledge?

Muckit · 01-05-2015 5:28pm

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If you bought in HEX or AAX runners (3-4mts) in April/may and keep for one winter on only 1kg meal with 0.25kg soya added to build up their frame you could have a lot higher stocking rate. You can sell at 16-18mts. Outlay possibly €450 per head MAX and out at 18mts approx €950. €500 margin per animal x 30 leaves you an extra 5k to what you are doing now. 40 Acres would run 30 handy to keep them ticking along without a major amount of fert. 1.5 bags per acre 18-6-12 to keep NP&K ticking over per acre. No big heavy cows poaching, no calving, no wild weanlings, little or no mortality, quiet animals as they would be bucket reared. Break them into two groups of 15 in one acre paddocks changed over every 3-4 days and your elected.

If he's able to run 17 cows and calves on 40acres, he could carry nearly 50 of the cattle you are talking about.

Good advice to ditch the sucklers at that scale. He wouldn't see the silage the yearlings would eat over the winter Compared to them Could get most from just taking out surplus paddocks. Have no dedicated silage ground.

Pluses: No ai/bull
No calving
No tagging dehorning registering of calves
Lower mortality
Better grass utilisation as easy utilise out farms and farm in general because no need to ai
Better conversion of grass into kg/lwt/acre
Less silage required for winter
Shorter winter as young stock can be put to grass earlier in spring
Can sell drystock at any time of year =improved cash flow
Selling at any time means better control of when you sell to maximise return

Cons:
More time spent in the mart buying/selling
Better quality silage required management needed

Overall drystock is a no brainer if wanting to continfarming.The long term lease is also a very viable option but l'd be very slow even myself to go do down this road.

Muckit · 01-05-2015 8:24pm

DonAndy1 wrote: »

Hi there,
has anyone fallen victim to a tree/reps planner in the west of ireland.
we are held up on our 2014 payment and dont seem to be getting any info from dept .
anyone any knowledge?

Hedges ie ? :-)

Farmer Pudsey · 01-05-2015 9:19pm

Muckit wrote: »

If he's able to run 17 cows and calves on 40acres, he could carry nearly 50 of the cattle you are talking about.

Good advice to ditch the sucklers at that scale. He wouldn't see the silage the yearlings would eat over the winter Compared to them Could get most from just taking out surplus paddocks. Have no dedicated silage ground.

Pluses: No ai/bull
No calving
No tagging dehorning registering of calves
Lower mortality
Better grass utilisation as easy utilise out farms and farm in general because no need to ai
Better conversion of grass into kg/lwt/acre
Less silage required for winter
Shorter winter as young stock can be put to grass earlier in spring
Can sell drystock at any time of year =improved cash flow
Selling at any time means better control of when you sell to maximise return

Cons:
More time spent in the mart buying/selling
Better quality silage required management needed

Overall drystock is a no brainer if wanting to continfarming.The long term lease is also a very viable option but l'd be very slow even myself to go do down this road.

Shhhh

CloughCasey1 · 01-05-2015 9:45pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Shhhh

He could even buy an odd fresian;-);-);-)

farmerman · 05-06-2015 4:48pm

bonaparte2 wrote: »

Rent your land for 5 yrs and get tax free money . Beef is marginally profitable and at your scale a waste of time .

Rent is not tax free it's classified as unearned income so i think tax could be as high as 50%

smokey-fitz · 05-06-2015 5:46pm

farmerman wrote: »

Rent is not tax free it's classified as unearned income so i think tax could be as high as 50%

That changed in the budget last year. Leases of 5+ years are tax free, except stamp duty which is payable by the person leasing.

Justjens · 05-06-2015 6:41pm

farmerman wrote: »

Rent is not tax free it's classified as unearned income so i think tax could be as high as 50%

smokey-fitz wrote: »

That changed in the budget last year. Leases of 5+ years are tax free, except stamp duty which is payable by the person leasing.

The only tax that's payable is prsi and usc, once you qualify....

Farming costs

Comments