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Dyatlov pass incident

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  • 10-08-2020 8:46pm
    #1
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭


    Watching the two part Dyatlov Pass episodes.

    I find the missile test theory highly dubious as Who tests missiles in temperatures below -20°C at night, in the snow, where you can't accurately observe what happens?


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    #2
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    This has been explained years ago.


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    #3
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,563 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Someone posted something about a freak weather “event” that may have been the cause.

    Was in that ‘favourite mysteries’ thread. Compelling stuff.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #4
    Errashareesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Errashareesh


    The melted stove theory is the one I go by. Mundane but makes the most sense to me.


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    #5
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    This has been explained years ago.


    The case was never concluded, and a new official investigation was announced about 18 months ago.


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    #6
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Aliens


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    #7
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Errashareesh wrote: »
    The melted stove theory is the one I go by. Mundane but makes the most sense to me.


    But the stove wasn't used that night, or the night before as condition of the certification they were trying to achieve.


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    #8
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    This has been explained years ago.

    It's right up there with the Russian Sleep Experiment and Slenderman. :rolleyes:


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    #9
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Always been an interesting one ,

    Definitely wasn't an avalanche don't think the russians ever produced any real evidence to show or prove it was a weather event ,
    From what I remember some of the bodies have injuries but yet clothing was intact
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #10
    Kilboor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Kilboor


    Lemmino did an excellent video on it.

    Great channel for mysteries


    https://youtu.be/Y8RigxxiilI


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    #11
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Which one OP, Dead Mountain?


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    #12
    Sonic the Shaghog
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    The case was never concluded, and a new official investigation was announced about 18 months ago.

    It was closed a month ago.

    The Russian prosecutor generals office stated hypothermia as they fled thinking an avalanche, a small one did happen which covered the tent and they believe it made it next to impossible to find it when they tried returning to camp afterwards

    They said something about falling into a snow hole for the blunt force trauma injuries and I think the missing eyes etc was down to wildlife

    I must look it up again, don't know why the KGB made it so hush hush back in the day if they didn't think there was anything odd to itn


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    #13
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Who indeed? I always test my ballistic missiles in the morning as I love the smell of rocket fuel in the morning.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #14
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,095 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »
    don't know why the KGB made it so hush hush back in the day if they didn't think there was anything odd to itn
    Tends to be the default position with such secret police bodies wherever you find them. If in doubt keep it hush hush. Before you're sure keep it hush hush. After you're sure, definitely keep it hush hush because it's 20 years later and sure who would want to drag up the past, someone might get blamed, IE us.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #15
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,362 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »
    It was closed a month ago.

    They stated hypothermia as they fled thinking an avalanche, a small one did happen which covered the tent and they believe it made it next to impossible to find it when they tried returning to camp afterwards

    They said something about falling into a snow hole for the blunt force trauma injuries and I think the missing eyes etc was down to wildlife

    I must look it up again, don't know why the KGB made it so hush hush back in the day if they didn't think there was anything odd to itn


    6 times you said "they" in your post , who's they ?
    Or have "they" told you to say nothing?


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    #16
    Errashareesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Errashareesh


    Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »
    don't know why the KGB made it so hush hush back in the day if they didn't think there was anything odd to itn
    Wasn't it because Soviet state policy was to downplay any matters that would cause fear, anxiety, upset etc? Because otherwise it might lead to independent thought - that maybe this place isn't quite utopia.

    Apparently that came into how Chernobyl was dealt with, and when there was a serial killer at large, Andrei Chikatilo (80s).

    And those were far later, when things were very slightly relaxed. Dyatlov Pass was the same decade as Stalin's death.


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    #17
    Sonic the Shaghog
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    corner of hells wrote: »
    6 times you said "they" in your post , who's they ?
    Or have "they" told you to say nothing?

    Russian prosecutor generals office is the one I read


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    #18
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    cfuserkildare wrote: »

    I find the missile test theory highly dubious as Who tests missiles in temperatures below -20°C at night, in the snow, where you can't accurately observe what happens?

    Im sure plenty do test in those circumstances. I mean, if a war starts and youre being attacked, you're not going to ask them to wait for more favourable weather to start defending yourself, are you.


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    #19
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,323 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    corner of hells wrote: »
    6 times you said "they" in your post , who's they ?
    Or have "they" told you to say nothing?

    Y'know, them. I've said too much already.


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    #20
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Watching the two part Dyatlov Pass episodes.

    I find the missile test theory highly dubious as Who tests missiles in temperatures below -20°C at night, in the snow, where you can't accurately observe what happens?
    Good thing the Russians have never had a war in winter :rolleyes:

    way too much info on missile propellants and temperature
    https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf



    During WWI the Germans, Americans and British all had faulty torpedoes because they hadn't been tested properly in real world conditions.

    HMS Trinidad torpedoed herself because the cold weather testing hadn't been done.

    One US submarine USS Tunny got into a position to fire torpedoes at three Japanese aircraft carriers. None detonated. The Mark XIV torpedo had soo many ways of failing.


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    #21
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Kilboor wrote: »
    Lemmino did an excellent video on it.

    Great channel for mysteries


    https://youtu.be/Y8RigxxiilI

    Great video ! thanks for that!


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    #22
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    It's a great channel, here is his DB Cooper one ...



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    #23
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    My point about the weather conditions is more to do with the fact that you cant really observe how the missile performs, or the results of any actual impact, until the conditions clear up.

    Also, can you please stick to topic Hector Savage? if you want a discussion about DB Cooper, then by all means open a dedicated thread.
    Just try not to clutter or misdirect this thread?


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    #24
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    My point about the weather conditions is more to do with the fact that you cant really observe how the missile performs, or the results of any actual impact, until the conditions clear up.

    Also, can you please stick to topic Hector Savage? if you want a discussion about DB Cooper, then by all means open a dedicated thread.
    Just try not to clutter or misdirect this thread?

    Sorry there, just excited about discovering this YT channel from here.

    Back on topic, I do like the way he's level headed and provides a very good explanation about this incident, seems the stove leaking smoke is the best explanation...


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    #25
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,563 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Sorry there, just excited about discovering this YT channel from here.

    Back on topic, I do like the way he's level headed and provides a very good explanation about this incident, seems the stove leaking smoke is the best explanation...

    Any mention of the possibility of a “katabatic” wind, H?

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #26
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,240 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Hey guys, check out these mushrooms I found....


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    #27
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I think in this case it was the authorities keeping schtum about it, as well the bizarre behaviour of the individuals, that caused it to become more a mystery than it actually was.

    Based on what we know now, the only "strange" thing about it was the fact that they had cut their way out of the tent instead of using the door. However, the tents they would have been using then, are laced closed from the inside. This closes the door in a way that it seals well from outside elements, including wildlife. But not very easy to open in an emergency. In the dark and in a panic, they may very well have have just been able to put their hand on a knife and decided that was the best way out.

    The simplest explanation is that they fled the tent in the middle of the night, probably around midnight, probably out of fear of an avalanche, and fled into woods about a km away. They set up a temporary camp with a fire to try and stay warm until it was safe to return to the camp. As hypothermia begin to set in after an hour or two, they started thinking about returning to camp to get more clothes and supplies, but still being dark and having no idea what direction they came in, they were lost. When the first two people died, the rest took their clothes to stay warm. At some point then the group split up. 3 decided to try make their way back to the tent (dying in the process), four went in a different direction, possibly to get down the mountain and find a cave or another camp, but fell off a hidden cliff and died.


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    #28
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    BBC have a good story on it too ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/SoLiOdJyCK/mystery_of_dyatlov_pass


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    #29
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Sorry there, just excited about discovering this YT channel from here.

    Back on topic, I do like the way he's level headed and provides a very good explanation about this incident, seems the stove leaking smoke is the best explanation...



    As part of the certification they were trying for, they had to not cook for several days, the previous night they recorded this detail,
    When the tent was found, the stove had not been unpacked or assembled.


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    #30
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Watching the two part Dyatlov Pass episodes.

    Where? Which series? Always been utterly fascinated with this, this and the Valentich Disappearance are the most interesting unsolved mysteries IMO


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    #31
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,095 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Where? Which series? Always been utterly fascinated with this, this and the Valentich Disappearance are the most interesting unsolved mysteries IMO
    The Valentich pilot thing fascinated me as a kid when I first heard of it. It was the days of Close Encounters of the third kind and major UFO mania and maybe this was a case of UFO abduction. These days I have a very different take on it.

    In my humble a few things are in play here. He was fascinated by UFO's and claimed to have seen a couple. He wasn't a good pilot. Only 20 years old with not many hours under his belt he'd already racked up a few warnings from authorities, including one that could have resulted in legal action(strayed into restricted airspace around an airport IIRC). He had applied for both military and civil pilot training, failed his exams and had been rejected by both.

    The flight he took that day in a borrowed aircraft was from Tasmania to an island off the coast whose name escapes. 50 miles distance again IIRC, much of it over water. However the landing strip on said island didn't have a control tower. He was going to arrive at night so someone would have had to tell them to turn on the landing lights in advance. He didn't. He told his dad IIRC that he was picking up passengers, but there were no passengers involved. He told someone else he was picking foodstuff of some nature, but again no record of that. He told his girlfriend he'd be back in a couple of hours, but no way could he have done that unless he stole a jet fighter. Lots of subterfuge and fibbing, touch of walter mitty maybe? He was also flying under radar coverage.

    My theory is he went out to fake a UFO "close encounter" as a joke, or more likely a means to get attention. He took off and after night fell called in his "sighting", one that echoed the type of sightings in TV and films like Close Encounters of the third kind of the time. At some point during this charade he got disorientated,which would be easy to do for an inexperienced pilot flying at night and below a few thousand feet and lost control of the aircraft and crashed into the sea. He mentioned, or you could hear on the radio recordings that his engine was running rough. Maybe he got into a slow spin which cut the fuel to his engine(IIRC the Cessna he was flying wasn't rated for aerobatics, gravity fed fuel) and it was game over.

    OK his plane hasn't been found, but there's some deep water and strong currents in that strait and given his inexperience(and lack of GPS in those days) he could well have been way off course when he did crash.

    My take anyway.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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