Work Problem

LegacyUser · 08-08-2020 10:21am #1

I am having an issue at work and I don’t know if I am being completely unreasonable or not. I work in a small team of five reporting to one manager. Our work involves analysis and reporting. We have daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual reporting deadlines (some statutory, some to senior management). I love my job. It’s interesting, I enjoy my days, my team are lovely, etc. I have been in the company for eight years and in this team for four.

My issue is, I think with my manager but it’s not straightforward. Out of the five of us in the team, four of us do the same job. We cover different areas but it’s the same thing. It was all good until about a year ago when the fifth person joined the team. They were part of another team, in the company about fifteen years and had been out for about three years on and off suffering from mental health related issues. It apparently related to issues with their old team and manager, so when they returned to work, they were moved to a completely unrelated activity and team. They do some work that isn’t essential, time critical or in any way related to what we do. Absolutely no crossover whatsoever. So, they don’t understand what we do at all but we do understand what they do, if that makes sense.

To start with, this person undoubtedly has issues. They have constant IT issues which prevents them doing any work but generally this comes down to them just not knowing how to use a system or the basic functions of a programme. They’re constantly in contact with the rest of us to talk about how much they are struggling from day to day, etc. My biggest issue is that they need daily meetings and contact with the team to motivate themselves to do any work. They’re quite open about this. The issue is that once they start talking, they don’t stop. We are wasting 2hrs minimum on meetings daily. We’re still working from home so this has ramped up from half an hour in the office to just taking up the whole afternoon. Our company has issued a lot of communication to say that no meetings are to happen after 3 and team meetings no more than once a fortnight. As a result, our manager always organises these meetings from 3pm onwards. Our working hours are 9-5, so we work reasonably to those times. We have 5pm as an unofficial reporting deadline and we’re well able to manage the workload. Unfortunately, losing two hours a day to listening to how hard life is for one person is massively impacting my life. I have spoken to the rest of the team and we’re all sick of it. We’re logging on well before 8 and logging off around six to get stuff done.

We have spoken to our manager about how it’s unsustainable. We said we couldn’t do it and rejected meeting invitations. Manager will keep calling you until you answer. We asked for less meetings and we went down to two days a week. This wasn’t enough for our colleague who demanded we had a daily meeting. Manager immediately caved. We also got loads of calls from this person complaining that they were really suffering from the lack of team contact during this period. We have tried time and again to raise it with our manager but they insist that the needs of one trumps the needs of four. They’re not impressed that we’re targeting someone with MH issues.

I am worn out. It’s Saturday and I got a few hours sleep last night because I know that I am getting a very brief break from it all. I have started to make mistakes at work and I am not the only one. I am now constantly chasing deadlines instead of being proactive. The level of involvement with this one person is huge and our manager just doesn’t want to deal with it.

We have discussed it among ourselves and we think that if we go to HR or go any higher that we’ll be negatively judged for basically complaining about the supports in place for someone with mental health issues. I am so worn out. I get emails, messages, calls and two hours of a meeting listening to this daily. I feel that my manager should step up and do something but that’s obviously not going to happen.

Any advice? Am I being unfair? My head is a complete mess and my work is suffering.

sunshinew · 08-08-2020 1:45pm

I don't have much advice for you, but I do understand how difficult it can be. I was moved to share an office with somebody that was coming back from a long period of mental health issues. Managers told me that the medical advice they had for her return to work was that she shouldn't be left on her own. I got zero support from managers or HR on how to handle it and was made out to be discriminatory when I raised concerns about what was expected of me in this situation. Mental health illness runs in my family so, if anything, I was more understanding and aware of the person's difficulties. My working day turned into a constantly having to explain the smoke alarms weren't recording us, I wasn't filming her with my phone etc. She was a lovely person and I couldn't just ignore her distress.

I could cope with it to a point until managers started questioning my work output and they refused to acknowledge the situation. I ended up quitting the job for this and other reasons. They treated her (and me) abominably and were pretty much doing all they could to make her sick again so she'd leave. Anyway.... Useless advice for you but I'm so angry with all the companies talking about mental health supports, and speak up if you're having issues.... They honestly do not care and speaking up just makes you a problem for them. The experience had a huge effect on my own mental health so I understand the strain you are feeling.

However I do think you need it formally record it with your manager or HR in some way. Ask for a formal meeting and outline how the new work schedule of meetings and the instruction from managers to always be available to your colleague, is an inefficient use of your time and effecting your output and you want your concerns formally noted. That way if you make a mistake or something in future, you can say you flagged this was an issue.

duffman13 · 08-08-2020 1:54pm

Your taking the mental load of this person, tbh as harsh as it may seem, id be ignoring all calls and emails unless I had a bit of free time at the end of the day to indulge. If you do answer, do the five minute rule thing and tell the other person you gotta run and speak to someone else.

I've been in a similar situation before, its a very tough circle to break, the kicker here is for you to take action on your own and just tell the person you are too busy, id stop trying to coordinate with other team members simply because of the way it may be perceived. Your own line manager seems to have taken your actions to date negatively which may imply he doesn't see a problem with this person.

To play devils advocate a new person joins a well established team and is being singled out, this view could easily be taken given what you've described above. Thread carefully and where possible ignore the person totally, they might thing your rude or a dick but its worth it for your own sanity

sunshinew · 08-08-2020 1:57pm

And btw it's not "you" that is targeting somebody with mental health issues....the company has left it to you to support this person with no training on how to handle it. You are her colleague, not her manager or HR, yet the company sees you as the solution to this.

So if the company make you out to be discriminatory, you need to turn it back on them. You are not trained for this. I'd flag it firstly as a schedule issue with meetings taking up too much of your time and you are worried about the effect on output, if they bring up that she has mental health issues, (which my dope of a director did) then you can outline that this is actually a more serious issue as the company has revealed private health issues of your colleague and is expecting you to be the solution.

strandroad · 08-08-2020 3:13pm

StressedOut123 wrote: »

I am worn out. It’s Saturday and I got a few hours sleep last night because I know that I am getting a very brief break from it all. I have started to make mistakes at work and I am not the only one. I am now constantly chasing deadlines instead of being proactive. The level of involvement with this one person is huge and our manager just doesn’t want to deal with it.

We have discussed it among ourselves and we think that if we go to HR or go any higher that we’ll be negatively judged for basically complaining about the supports in place for someone with mental health issues. I am so worn out. I get emails, messages, calls and two hours of a meeting listening to this daily. I feel that my manager should step up and do something but that’s obviously not going to happen.

Any advice? Am I being unfair? My head is a complete mess and my work is suffering.

Report a mental health issue yourself, officially and in writing. You are worn out and stressed, you are approaching burnout fast or perhaps you are already there. You don't need to identify a factor, just make an honest report on how you're feeling these days. The symptoms you're describing are serious, in my place of work managers would be pulled up on it if they allowed the things to deteriorate so badly. Flag that you might be in need of stress leave. Let your manager see the impact of their inaction.

I understand that someone need a safety valve, many people do these days, but to allow them to claim two hours of everyone's day is unacceptable. There needs to be a balance. Report your own state officially and let your manager weigh mental health needs against mental health needs.

sunshinew · 08-08-2020 3:35pm

strandroad wrote: »

Report a mental health issue yourself, officially and in writing. You are worn out and stressed, you are approaching burnout fast or perhaps you are already there. You don't need to identify a factor, just make an honest report on how you're feeling these days. The symptoms you're describing are serious, in my place of work managers would be pulled up on it if they allowed the things to deteriorate so badly. Flag that you might be in need of stress leave. Let your manager see the impact of their inaction.

I understand that someone need a safety valve, many people do these days, but to allow them to claim two hours of everyone's day is unacceptable. There needs to be a balance. Report your own state officially and let your manager weigh mental health needs against mental health needs.

The problem with this approach is that it then goes against the OP. If promotion opportunities come up etc. I'd like to think we live in a world where it wouldn't but I really don't think we do. Companies talk the talk around supporting stress and mental health but in reality is doesn't work that way.

08-08-2020 4:44pm

I'd probably just dial in, announce myself and then mute the call and continue working in the background.

Maybe let it be known that you're struggling a bit to cope with 10 hrs of team meetings a week, especially when they're only supposed to happen every two weeks. Let your manager know you're in danger of missing a few deadlines etc because of this. By email, for the record.

Re the rest, I'd ignore calls, emails - "bring it up at the meeting" and bat the rest away with "get in touch with IT support or RTFM".

Hannibal_Smith · 08-08-2020 5:12pm

There has to be someone above her who can see productivity is down on x group? Questions will be asked eventually.

Can you steer the conversation back to work? Can you ask her directly to keep the conversations about work and tell her that the long calls are affecting what you can get done in a day? If talking to her doesn't work, go above her?

AndrewJRenko · 08-08-2020 8:40pm

Why not spread the load among the team - each of you attend two meetings each week, instead of one every day. It would make a big difference to your personal productivity.

cloudatlas · 08-08-2020 9:26pm

You aren't being unreasonable at all. It's not your job to be the support for this person, the management have to put in the support for this person i.e. your manager should be having daily catch ups with them not the whole team. It's quite clear that your manager can't cope one to one with them so that is why they are bringing in the whole team.

I think you should go to h.r. but ask for confidentiality and tell them that you don't want it getting back to your manager that you have complained in case they are prejudiced against you because of the complaint.

shesty · 09-08-2020 7:44am

2 hours every day sounds like it is just feeding the issue.
On a practical level can you mute yourself and/orthem and carrying on working?

qwerty13 · 09-08-2020 9:40am

I wondered if they are being managed out / set up to fail, so that they’d leave: new unfamiliar work, tight deadlines, daily reporting - sounds like a tough environment for someone back from a long term absence. The lack of official support could be part of this. I would naively have thought that there‘d be a mentor they could go to (your manager), and that a training plan would be put in place (acknowledging that you and your team-mates needed time allocated to do this), and that the person would have a daily 15 minute call with the manager.

Or it could that your manager is a coward, and a bit of an idiot, and has stuck their head in the sand about the support this person needs, and the issues surrounding this.

It isn’t fair of your employer, manager, or the person in question to expect you to spend up to 2 hours of your day supporting them with their professional or personal issues (does the 2 hours include the random emails, calls and messages from them - or is that in addition to 2 hours?). But I definitely don’t think you should band together with your colleagues over this when making complaints - it could come across as bullying.

I would take the approach mentioned by others here:
- personal issues expressed by this person get the sound lowered, and you only respond intermittently. So you’re not refusing to talk to them (and can’t be accused of such). But you need a time limit here, see possible excuses below
- professional issues get grouped together by this person and dealt with in 1 call per day. Or direct them to IT support. If really necessary, you can answer some of their calls - but you need a range of excuses: you have another call, someone at the door, you have a deadline in half an hour for something and can’t talk right now, connection dropped etc. You need to break the pattern of lengthy calls, and that they seem to feel they can interrupt you at any time they feel like it. Will they pay attention if you set your status to busy/do not disturb?

I’m not without sympathy for the person in question - it sounds like they are struggling personally and professionally. Maybe they came back to work too soon (or were strongly encouraged to do so). It is nice to be helpful, but not at the expense of making yourself stressed over this. The current situation is simply not fair on you or the person, and it is taking its toll on you already. Don’t let that expand into full-blown stress issues.

The best of luck with everything, I know it’s a very difficult situation to navigate.

seefin · 09-08-2020 10:27am

Email manager saying you cant reach targets because of daily meetings. State that you have always met targets but now impossible to do so. Stop working extra time and covering the problem. Miss deadlines and when asked why, forward on emails sent to your line manager.

1hnr79jr65 · 09-08-2020 2:58pm

Inform your manager that you feel your work is suffering due to these meetings and extra time now required to make sure work is on time. Also advise your manage that your colleague seems to be struggle and you are not in a position to support her emotionally/mentally.

It may sound cold but you do not owe this person the support they require, that is the responsibility of the company.

HildaOgdenx · 09-08-2020 6:28pm

'They’re not impressed that we’re targeting someone with MH issues.'

This line stood out to me. The manager is out of their depth and is foisting the situation on the rest of you, rather than dealing with it. And it is a delicate situation, but they are the one in a managerial role. So they need to work with HR if necessary, on strategies to give this person the support they need, not try to cover it up by having the whole team involved in two hour meetings, on a daily basis.

I agree with qwerty, it's quite possible that this person is being managed out. I feel sympathetic towards them, I have seen similar happen. I'm not sure what to suggest that hasn't already been mentioned. I would definitely try some of the strategies mentioned, such as muting calls and carrying on with what you are doing during the two hours.

And I suppose try to protect your own time, as best you can. Plan out the day, and do your best to minimise disruption. 'Come hell or high water, I will have x done by such and such a time.' There's a saying that if someone asks can you lend them a tenner, you think about it, but when someone steals your time, you give it to them sometimes without thinking.
That's not a criticism, by the way. Most of us do it, and this is an extreme version of it, and a very difficult situation, for you.

09-08-2020 7:29pm

I know this is a pretty stock response to a work problem, but you need to start recording your time, and the effect of meetings on the team.

Lay out a week on paper - the time you spend working on each of your separate tasks, the time spent on meetings, the content/value of each meeting, etc.
Categorise your time into time spent on outputs, value-adding tasks, team collaboration, team updates, etc. and critically, a category for "colleague support (non-work related)". Define the different supports your colleague required during the week (this will help you argue that you're not the best placed person to provide what really should be specialist support).

Document a business case to your manager, and let them know that you feel it should be shared with HR. Show that:
1. You're spending 25% of your working hours acting in an undefined role which you have not been prepared for or trained for.
2. You've been put in a situation where you're essentially responsible for easing this person back into work. You want the best for your colleague, but having tried to support them through these recent months, it's clear that they require long-term specialist support, and that neither you nor the team have the resources (both qualifications and time) to facilitate your colleague to the extent that they've requested.
3. This new, undefined responsibility now requires you to work overtime to 125% of your contracted hours, which is outside your employment agreement (check your contract on this, I'm just guessing).
4. The quality and timing of your existing workload is suffering as you've been stretched too thin.
5. The team atmosphere has been negatively affected by being given a duty of care for your colleague which really should be shared by much more senior levels of management, HR and your Employee Assistance provider (if you have one).
6. etc.

If you phrase it in such a way as you're saying 'our colleague needs dedicated support from an appropriate person' rather than 'what about how this is affecting us', you might get a better response from your manager. Mentioning HR in the initial email might also put a little fire under them to improve the situation before HR gets wind of it themselves. Finally, it nothing improves, you'll at least have documented evidence that you tried to address the situation, which you can then take higher up or to HR, and your manager can't act surprised about it because you'll already have said that you think HR needs to hear it.

LegacyUser · 10-08-2020 4:21pm

StressedOut123 wrote: »

We have discussed it among ourselves and we think that if we go to HR or go any higher that we’ll be negatively judged for basically complaining about the supports in place for someone with mental health issues.

But it doesn't sound like they have put any support in place for this person, feels like they've dumped onto your manager and team and told the manager to look after them. I feel for the person with the MH issues but you can't put the pressure on untrained co-workers to look after someone like that. I once had a flat share with someone with MH issues who would come home in the evenings and demand I set and listen to how their day had gone and it was clearly something their therapist did with them but I was 19 and not a trained therapist so I use to make excuses to basically never be home until late or lock myself in my room and of course my mental health suffered and I ended up moving out.

If they are struggling with work or the remote working then someone higher up on the chain needs to put support in place for them, it shouldn't be up to your team to babysit someone.

Get everyone on the team to log every working minute for a week then send it to your manager and tell them you will go above them if they don't start doing something about it.

Work Problem

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