I bought a car with outstanding finance

staples7 · 24-07-2020 12:05am

I also think there’s a strong possibility your jumping the gun here. I bought a car in the last 6 months. I had found out that it was still under pcp before buying. The seller advised that they were using my cash to clear pcp. Obviously this was not going to work for me so we agreed they cleared it themselves first ( presumably by loan). Also they should not have tried to sell a car with pcp owing. I did the finance check a few days after the pcp was Suppose to be cleared and finance still showed as owing. So we rang vw bank together when I was taking the car and they confirmed that pcp was cleared in full. Seller was completely honest and forwarded me the letter confirming this again later that week. My point being this could simply be the finance will either be cleared soon or will be payed off monthly as normal without anyone ever coming looking to reclaim car. But I understand it’s the not knowing is the issue.

24-07-2020 12:46am

I don't think you have lost 9 grand. Find out what is still owed to the finance company. You may have to pay that worst case scenario. It may not be that much.

But hopefully the guy has paid it off anyway as he won't want a bad credit rating.

Gturek86 · 24-07-2020 1:00am

Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.

Next the way of this guy's thinking was weird. When I talked with him over the phone yesterday he seemed to see no flaws with the fact that he sold me the car still on hire purchase. He kept repeating "I pay for car every month and will continue untill the end" with a hint of anger. The younger fellow that was with him on Sunday was in fact his son and said his father took a second finance for another car just before I bought this one from him.

It seems to me that he simply does not understand what he did and sold me the car unknowingly of possible recourse but I simply could not get through to him on that matter as if he did not understand what I was saying.

So from what I learned he now pays for two separate loans. I'm gonna try finding someone who speaks Russian/Lithuanian and talk with him again. Perhaps he indeed does intend on paying the loan.

The bank manager friend said she will try pulling some strings to find out whether or not he pays them.

Because of this whole ordeal, I could not get a wink of sleep last night and I'm bearly standing right now. I'm gonna update you lads on how this storey will be unfolding. Maybe I really did jump the gun.

24-07-2020 1:05am

SetOverSet wrote: »

They certainly wouldn't release it to the OP, and I don't know if they'd even entertain such a request from a member of the public so to speak

In relation to this, pop in to Tesco with a written, dated letter, asking for the footage from a manager. If you are visible or identifiable in the footage, then they are obligated to provide you with the footage.
You might be waiting a few weeks for them to begrudgingly do it, but the sooner you get there and get your (dated) request in, the less likely they are to shrug their shoulders and say 'we already recorded over it".

From page 17 of this document from dataprotection.ie
Document:
https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-05/CCTV%20guidance%20data%20controller.pdf

Providing Access to CCTV to Data Subjects

Data protection law provides for a right of access to their personal data by individuals. This applies to any individual whose identifiable image has been recorded by a CCTV system. When a data controller receives a request from an individual to access CCTV data, they must normally respond within one month. To facilitate the processing of the request, the controller may ask the individual to give a reasonable indication of the date and time of the footage they are looking for. If the recording has already been deleted on the date on which the request is received, the defined retention period having expired, the individual should be informed that the footage no longer exists. If an access request has been received, the footage should not be deleted until the request has been fulfilled.

They are also obligated to blur other people's faces, but it's likely they won't bother, as it's a lot of hassle. Either way, though, get the request for CCTV in NOW rather than waiting 'to see what happens' as Tesco will drag their feet.

This is it · 24-07-2020 1:35am

Gturek86 wrote: »

Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.

Next the way of this guy's thinking was weird. When I talked with him over the phone yesterday he seemed to see no flaws with the fact that he sold me the car still on hire purchase. He kept repeating "I pay for car every month and will continue untill the end" with a hint of anger. The younger fellow that was with him on Sunday was in fact his son and said his father took a second finance for another car just before I bought this one from him.

It seems to me that he simply does not understand what he did and sold me the car unknowingly of possible recourse but I simply could not get through to him on that matter as if he did not understand what I was saying.

So from what I learned he now pays for two separate loans. I'm gonna try finding someone who speaks Russian/Lithuanian and talk with him again. Perhaps he indeed does intend on paying the loan.

The bank manager friend said she will try pulling some strings to find out whether or not he pays them.

Because of this whole ordeal, I could not get a wink of sleep last night and I'm bearly standing right now. I'm gonna update you lads on how this storey will be unfolding. Maybe I really did jump the gun.

Presume he doesn't understand the difference between a loan and hire purchase and the fact that the car was not his to sell under hire purchase, not until the final payment was made.

Not sure where you should go, would be best to get your money back of possible.

Francescoli · 24-07-2020 2:03am

OP now that you have made contact with the seller and he doesnt seem to know what he did was fraud
Id be telling him to give you back your money and both of you move on.

Do not entertain the idea he will keep paying off the finance each month.

893bet · 24-07-2020 8:43am

He is prob not paying two loans. He used your money to buy the other car out right I would assume.

It’s a risky situation all round still for the next 4 years.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 24-07-2020 9:22am

893bet wrote: »

He is prob not paying two loans. He used your money to buy the other car out right I would assume.

It’s a risky situation all round still for the next 4 years.

Yeah I'd get out of this asap if at all possible. Perhaps unbeknownst to him, he's asking you to be exposed to his credit risk for the next 4 years. Even if there is nothing untoward going on, he can get sick, lose his source of income etc.

punisher5112 · 24-07-2020 9:27am

Even worse, leave the country.... Quite a few at that getting loans and never come back....

paw patrol · 24-07-2020 9:38am

This is it wrote: »

With all the data protection laws it would need an official Garda request for most to hand over CCTV, especially larger stores I'd imagine

person crashed into my wife in tesco and legged it
they would only let garda view CCTV.

road_high · 24-07-2020 10:01am

893bet wrote: »

He is prob not paying two loans. He used your money to buy the other car out right I would assume.

It’s a risky situation all round still for the next 4 years.

I'd say he knows more than he's letting on.
Fcuk i know it's easy be wise after the event but jesus there were several alarm bells here. I can see why people are so hesitant to buy more expensive cars privately- so much can wrong.

monkeysnapper · 24-07-2020 11:06am

Sorry op but I see so many possibilitys here...

Loses job cant pay loan ..... you lose...
Loses job goes home ..... you lose....

I'd do my best to get money back or purswade him to pay off loan with the money if he wont give back money to you ...

This is so messy and a lesson to anyone reading this thread to do your homework ....

Good luck op I really hope you get it sorted ....

colm_mcm · 24-07-2020 11:13am

Another angle on this is that if your car is in an accident, it’s the finance company that will get paid in the event of a write off.

Regardless of what the guy says, there is only one solution here, which is the seller paying off the finance.

I’m guessing the cash is long gone and is the deposit on his new car.

This is it · 24-07-2020 11:15am

road_high wrote: »

I'd say he knows more than he's letting on.
Fcuk i know it's easy be wise after the event but jesus there were several alarm bells here. I can see why people are so hesitant to buy more expensive cars privately- so much can wrong.

What were the alarm bells? Genuine question. Seller gave his address, buyer chose a Tesco car park, seller gave log book, allowed buyer take photos. Mechanic checked it out, both buyer and mechanic allowed test drive. Seller has family with him.

While there's more the buyer could've done I'm not sure what the buyer did to cause alarm bells, it's up to the buyer to do their checks and this one didn't. From reading the buyers replies it seems more a case of the seller not understanding hire purchase vs a loan rather than trying to con him. Sure he wouldn't have given an address or answered the phone again if that was the case.

All that being said, I'd push for a refund, whatever the sellers intentions now it could be a different story in a few months or years.

Juwwi · 24-07-2020 11:17am

Another problem would be you are stuck with that car until the final payment is made ,if in 2 years time the car starts giving trouble and you wanted to sell it you can't as you don't own it , one big headache you don't need .

I'd be ringing him again and get his address and drive out to his house to explain it all in person that he wasn't allowed to sell the car .

Wildly Boaring · 24-07-2020 12:09pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Another angle on this is that if your car is in an accident, it’s the finance company that will get paid in the event of a write off.

Regardless of what the guy says, there is only one solution here, which is the seller paying off the finance.

I’m guessing the cash is long gone and is the deposit on his new car.

Amen

Going through a write off right now.
Fine for us but yeah Finance company will be asked for their settlement figure and that will be sent straight to them.

Then you get remainder

ohnonotgmail · 24-07-2020 12:54pm

This is it wrote: »

What were the alarm bells? Genuine question. Seller gave his address, buyer chose a Tesco car park, seller gave log book, allowed buyer take photos. Mechanic checked it out, both buyer and mechanic allowed test drive. Seller has family with him.

While there's more the buyer could've done I'm not sure what the buyer did to cause alarm bells, it's up to the buyer to do their checks and this one didn't. From reading the buyers replies it seems more a case of the seller not understanding hire purchase vs a loan rather than trying to con him. Sure he wouldn't have given an address or answered the phone again if that was the case.

All that being said, I'd push for a refund, whatever the sellers intentions now it could be a different story in a few months or years.

they were told there was finance outstanding on the car.

road_high · 24-07-2020 1:30pm

This is it wrote: »

What were the alarm bells? Genuine question. Seller gave his address, buyer chose a Tesco car park, seller gave log book, allowed buyer take photos. Mechanic checked it out, both buyer and mechanic allowed test drive. Seller has family with him.

While there's more the buyer could've done I'm not sure what the buyer did to cause alarm bells, it's up to the buyer to do their checks and this one didn't. From reading the buyers replies it seems more a case of the seller not understanding hire purchase vs a loan rather than trying to con him. Sure he wouldn't have given an address or answered the phone again if that was the case.

All that being said, I'd push for a refund, whatever the sellers intentions now it could be a different story in a few months or years.

Without sounding racist- that was enough for me...
Few times our family have bought used privately we got a good feel for who the people were as much as the car itself (one worked for Toyota Ireland, another lives beside Mike Murphy RTE)- it’s easy enough to get a feel for who is bona fide and who isn’t...meeting some foreign guy to buy a used Insignia in a Tesco car park in a strange town...I know hindsight is wonderful but all that would be enough for me to run a bloody mile.

This is it · 24-07-2020 1:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they were told there was finance outstanding on the car.

After they bought it they ran the check

ohnonotgmail · 24-07-2020 1:39pm

Gturek86 wrote: »

Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.
.

This is it wrote: »

After they bought it they ran the check

that should have raised alarm bells.

road_high · 24-07-2020 1:42pm

How the brother in law could miss a clanger like that is beyond me.

This is it · 24-07-2020 1:42pm

road_high wrote: »

Without sounding racist- that was enough for me...
Few times our family have bought used privately we got a good feel for who the people were as much as the car itself (one worked for Toyota Ireland, another lives beside Mike Murphy RTE)- it’s easy enough to get a feel for who is bona fide and who isn’t...meeting some foreign guy to buy a used Insignia in a Tesco car park in a strange town...I know hindsight is wonderful but all that would be enough for me to run a bloody mile.

"without sounding racist"

That's a bad start. Xenophobic rather than racist.

Anyway, the Insignia was the buyers choice, Tesco was the buyers choice and if we only bought used from our local town we'd never buy anything.

Buyer should've done his checks, that's obvious. Apart from that I don't see any "red flags" that could've warned the buyer what was coming

road_high · 24-07-2020 1:47pm

This is it wrote: »

"without sounding racist"

That's a bad start. Xenophobic rather than racist.

Anyway, the Insignia was the buyers choice, Tesco was the buyers choice and if we only bought used from our local town we'd never buy anything.

Buyer should've done his checks, that's obvious. Apart from that I don't see any "red flags" that could've warned the buyer what was coming

There was lots of them. Paying the guts of 10 grand to a complete stranger you need to know a bit about them as well as the car.
Opel insignias are two a penny also

This is it · 24-07-2020 1:54pm

road_high wrote: »

There was lots of them. Paying the guts of 10 grand to a complete stranger you need to know a bit about them as well as the car.
Opel insignias are two a penny also

So every private car bought for €9k+ is a red flag? I haven't a notion what you're talking about now and I don't think you do either, I'll leave it at that.

ohnonotgmail · 24-07-2020 2:05pm

This is it wrote: »

So every private car bought for €9k+ is a red flag? I haven't a notion what you're talking about now and I don't think you do either, I'll leave it at that.

i will quote it again as you seem to have missed it

Gturek86 wrote: »

Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.
.

LawBoy2018 · 24-07-2020 2:30pm

I'm nearly positive that I read about a case similar to this one not too long ago. Surely the finance company would have some sort of clause in their contract to prevent this guy from selling the car without it being paid off? I'd imagine such situations would be covered by their insurance policy if things went sour.

The OP obviously wouldn't have to pay off the debt but I'd imagine the company would still have a charge over the car.

The obvious thing to do would be to get your money back from the seller + hand over the car.

punisher5112 · 24-07-2020 3:09pm

There is a dealer selling one with 126k km on it for less then 8k. 2014....

10k very expensive especially private sale...

road_high · 24-07-2020 3:28pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

There is a dealer selling one with 126k km on it for less then 8k. 2014....

10k very expensive especially private sale...

It was an Elite model which is the top spec. Also not sure if the mileage.
All academic really as this wasn’t the chancers car to sell.

weldoninhio · 24-07-2020 3:41pm

This is it wrote: »

With all the data protection laws it would need an official Garda request for most to hand over CCTV, especially larger stores I'd imagine

Is there any way you can request CCTV of yourself? Other guy would be in the video too.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-07-2020 3:41pm

This is it wrote: »

So every private car bought for €9k+ is a red flag? I haven't a notion what you're talking about now and I don't think you do either, I'll leave it at that.

It's €15 for a car check to verify no finance outstanding, a tiny fraction of our base price for peace of mind. Perhaps not worth doing on a €2k car.

ohnonotgmail · 24-07-2020 3:45pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is there any way you can request CCTV of yourself? Other guy would be in the video too.

you can request CCTV of yourself but the faces of everybody else should be blurred out.

wiz569 · 24-07-2020 3:47pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they were told there was finance outstanding on the car.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that should have raised alarm bells.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i will quote it again as you seem to have missed it

All after he had bought the car.

ohnonotgmail · 24-07-2020 3:50pm

wiz569 wrote: »

All after he had bought the car.

jeez, try reading it again.

He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.
.

on the day of purchase

KaneToad · 24-07-2020 3:59pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is there any way you can request CCTV of yourself? Other guy would be in the video too.

But he has the name, address and phone number of the seller already, no?

wiz569 · 24-07-2020 4:07pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

jeez, try reading it again.

on the day of purchase

Apologies, that part didnt sink in as its too unbelievable for words!

chiefwiggum · 28-07-2020 4:52pm

Any update OP?

Gturek86 · 29-07-2020 12:32pm

Hi all! Sorry for the delay in posting but the whole car thing was weighting on my mind for the past couple of days now and had forgotten completely about this thread.

So, the case has been resolved peacefully. Because of the trouble in communication with the seller caused by his bad English, this whole thing caused lot of misunderstandings on both parties.

Long story short, the guy already had two cars on finance and wanted to sell one of them (insignia) and pay the remainder of the loan to get another one.

I visited him last Sunday with my brother in law and another guy who speaks Lithuanian. This time the conversation ran a lot smoother. For some reason, in the beginning the seller thought that I wanted to have some sort of insight into the finance of the cars he had taken on finance after selling the insignia. Thankfully that has been resolved. He got an official letter from the bank saying that the finance on insignia has been cleared. Also, like I mentioned before, he was not aware that selling the car still on finance was not legal.

This whole situation probably gave me quite a lot more gray hair than I had before. I realize now that it all could have end up a lot worse. Anyways, thank you all for your insight on the matter and all the help I received from you. I know I made some mistakes but I'll be an experience richer going forward.

Also, some of you were asking why the price of the car was so high. The thing is that this is the most loaded version of the car possible and they are quite hard to find frankly. I've looked into some of these cars in the past few weeks when I was looking for one but most of them had some problems that would need work hours and money invested in them to some degree. Things like tearing leather seats, strong cigarette odour and discoloration of the interior or even mechanical problems. When I was viewing one at a car dealers in Dublin, the car died during test drive,right after "check engine" light came on and the car could not start again ;(. The one I have now has everything in order and was serviced regularly twice a year since new and is indicated in service book. And that wa

29-07-2020 12:34pm

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I’m afraid your goosed , go to Gardai if u can’t find the seller to see is going to clear the payment.
It’s fraud wasn’t his car to sell or at least he should have cleared it .
Hide the car until it’s sorted as the finance crowd will be looking for it in few months!
Ull have charges extra interest everything he didn’t pay will be added on to it .

Hmm

Can't really hide the car and contact the Gardai.

blindside88 · 29-07-2020 12:38pm

Happy that it worked out for you in the end OP. Best of luck with the new car

29-07-2020 1:15pm

Nice to hear it worked out. This thread taught me a lot.

chiefwiggum · 29-07-2020 5:42pm

Ah great stuff..delighted for you

lapua20grain · 29-07-2020 5:45pm

Nice one glad to hear it worked out well

monkeysnapper · 29-07-2020 6:33pm

Absolutly chuffed you got it all sorted man ....

Hope this thread can be used as an example of getting your sh1te together to save loss of sleep and grey hairs ..

colm_mcm · 29-07-2020 6:35pm

I’d suggest contacting whoever you did the car check with and make sure that it’s clear now.

Metroid diorteM · 29-07-2020 6:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nice to hear it worked out. This thread taught me a lot.

Me too.

I knew about PCP sales scams but I didn't realise many people have such low expectations from the guards.

I have had very few interactions with guards (just getting passport stamped or breathalysed) so it's disappointing that they seem to be pretty useless according to this thread.

Widdensushi · 31-07-2020 5:51am

Biggest red flag is buying a car model that you think gives so much trouble in general, the fact that one died while you were test driving it should be enough to make you look at a different model, best of luck, interesting thread.

chooseusername · 31-07-2020 7:53am

This thread should be stickied , preferably on "Motors- Buying and Selling"

corsav6 · 31-07-2020 8:25am

Good resolution in the end OP.
I've owned Opel/Vauxhall all my life and never had a serious issue in all that time. Change the oil every 10k with proper spec and let the car warm up before driving hard.
Best of luck with it OP.

ThunderCat · 31-07-2020 10:36am

Gturek86 wrote: »

Hi all! Sorry for the delay in posting but the whole car thing was weighting on my mind for the past couple of days now and had forgotten completely about this thread.

So, the case has been resolved peacefully. Because of the trouble in communication with the seller caused by his bad English, this whole thing caused lot of misunderstandings on both parties.

Long story short, the guy already had two cars on finance and wanted to sell one of them (insignia) and pay the remainder of the loan to get another one.

I visited him last Sunday with my brother in law and another guy who speaks Lithuanian. This time the conversation ran a lot smoother. For some reason, in the beginning the seller thought that I wanted to have some sort of insight into the finance of the cars he had taken on finance after selling the insignia. Thankfully that has been resolved. He got an official letter from the bank saying that the finance on insignia has been cleared. Also, like I mentioned before, he was not aware that selling the car still on finance was not legal.

This whole situation probably gave me quite a lot more gray hair than I had before. I realize now that it all could have end up a lot worse. Anyways, thank you all for your insight on the matter and all the help I received from you. I know I made some mistakes but I'll be an experience richer going forward.

Also, some of you were asking why the price of the car was so high. The thing is that this is the most loaded version of the car possible and they are quite hard to find frankly. I've looked into some of these cars in the past few weeks when I was looking for one but most of them had some problems that would need work hours and money invested in them to some degree. Things like tearing leather seats, strong cigarette odour and discoloration of the interior or even mechanical problems. When I was viewing one at a car dealers in Dublin, the car died during test drive,right after "check engine" light came on and the car could not start again ;(. The one I have now has everything in order and was serviced regularly twice a year since new and is indicated in service book. And that wa

So glad you got sorted in the end. I'm not familiar with these things but would it not be a letter from the finance company saying the finance has been cleared? I would have thought the banks only involvement would be the direct debits coming from his bank account and going to the finance company. Perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick here. It's just the cynic in me thinks that it might be handy enough to replicate what appears to be an official bank letter if you had a few days notice in which to do it.

ohnonotgmail · 31-07-2020 10:37am

ThunderCat wrote: »

So glad you got sorted in the end. I'm not familiar with these things but would it not be a letter from the finance company saying the finance has been cleared? I would have thought the banks only involvement would be the direct debits coming from his bank account and going to the finance company. Perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick here. It's just the cynic in me thinks that it might be handy enough to replicate what appears to be an official bank letter if you had a few days notice in which to do it.

the finance was from the bank.

I bought a car with outstanding finance

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