Road rage incident learner driver

punisher5112 · 09-08-2020 6:51pm

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

beauf · 09-08-2020 7:02pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

Just fold your left leg back and its much easier NOT to accidentally to use the brake as a clutch pedal

Then there's EV one pedal driving. Hardly need to use the brake pedal. Hardly uses brakes at all. Truely like a dodgem.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 7:24pm

thecomedian wrote: »

Ah there’s no extra skill required for changing to an automatic.
A bit of thinking maybe needed when you change back to manual from auto after temporarily using the auto.

I know a person who wasn’t able to drive an automatic because they didn’t know D was for drive

CoBo55 · 09-08-2020 7:40pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should try and read some more so, because Maybe you can, but not every person could jump from a manual to an automatic and drive it first time. It takes a Bit of learning and that’s before you recognize that there are different types of automatics which operate differently.

D N or R, it really isn't difficult, keep your hand on your left leg for the first few minutes if you normally drive a manual to prevent you walloping the brake with your clutch foot, the brain adjusts quickly and you're sorted. Conversely remember to dip the clutch at the first junction when you get back into the manual, again the brain adapts quickly.

GrumpyMe · 09-08-2020 7:54pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I know a person who wasn’t able to drive an automatic because they didn’t know D was for drive

Hardly a steep learning curve!

D is for drive - here ended the lesson!

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 8:54pm

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Hardly a steep learning curve!

D is for drive - here ended the lesson!

You might know that.
And I know that.
But not everyone know that automatically.

bmc58 · 10-08-2020 3:33pm

TK Lemon wrote: »

I'm a learner driver and very inexperienced. I was driving with Mr. Lemon in the passenger seat.

We came to a set of traffic lights at the exit of a supermarket. I cut out and missed the green. The man behind did Riverdance on the horn.

Mr. Lemon got out to politely point out that I'm a learner driver. He flew into a rage and roared at Mr Lemon. He said "I was warning her about the effing red light".

Mr. Lemon got back in and I conked out again at the green. He got out of his car and tried to open the door and banged on the window.

He said "I'll punch the fücking head off you if you get out of your car again".

The whole incident had me in tears and it's shaken me.

Why are L plates like a red rag to a bull. Mr. Lemon wants to call the Gardaí but I'm afraid it'll only backlash on us.

Been driving forty years and seen it all.Regulary see L drivers conking out.I just smile,been there done that.But you just cant legislate for agressive pri*ks.I would never blow the horn at an L driver.Keep driving you won't meet too many of his sort,but sadly there are some.Best of luck.

extra-ordinary_ · 10-08-2020 7:13pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

Did that 2 or 3 times after getting my current yoke.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 7:47pm

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Did that 2 or 3 times after getting my current yoke.

Had to teach my dad, he couldn't understand, but then he didn't know what alloys were and just knew the wheel thing turned it and one pedal made it go the other stop....

Even funnier thing is he was a bus driver for years and was driving manual and automatic and just couldn't understand it in the car...

Mango Joe · 11-08-2020 12:55pm

If you completely ignore these people then you break their little hearts by denying them the reaction they crave and so negate 99% of their 'power'.... The remaining 1% is cowardly bluster anyhow.

Best of luck with your driving career OP, remember the vast majority of Drivers are empathetic decent people and don't mind the ar$eh0les.

knucklehead6 · 11-08-2020 1:11pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yep you should never get out of your car to remonstrate with someone. If someone does that to me they land on their head very quickly and without warning because I’m not letting an aggressor get the jump on me.

Espically when your the first car at lights

Cars stall, that happens I’ve said That already, but the OP should work on making sure it doesn’t happen again.

Bloke gets out of his car after you've been blaring the horn at him and HE'S the aggressor???

Wow... Just wow.

As for them landing on their head very quickly, how are you going to achieve that... considering "you should never get out of your car to remonstrate with someone" ... Telekinesis?

knucklehead6 · 11-08-2020 1:14pm

In relation to the OP, don't let it bother you, idiots populate the roads as well at the internet.

I know that's easier said than done but there is not one person who is a driver and is posting here who has NOT stalled a car at some stage in their driving career.

You might want to have a word with the husband though, he needlessly escalated what was already a stressful situation for you.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 1:50pm

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

beauf · 11-08-2020 1:51pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Had to teach my dad, he couldn't understand, but then he didn't know what alloys were and just knew the wheel thing turned it and one pedal made it go the other stop....

Even funnier thing is he was a bus driver for years and was driving manual and automatic and just couldn't understand it in the car...

Buses used to have a semi automatic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

beauf · 11-08-2020 1:54pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

If they are rolling back, sounds like thats exactly what the horn is for. Though there's not much point blowing after they've hit you. That's a bit redundant.

As for them just driving off, after using you as a stop. Thats a whole different issue.

CrankyHaus · 11-08-2020 2:20pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

You were obviously in the right as there was no sign she was aware of your presence. However unreasonable people like that may be liable to make an injury claim against you and allege you rear-ended them. I suspect the only reason they didn't is because it didn't occur to them at the time. It's one of the reasons I got a dash-cam.

beauf · 11-08-2020 2:32pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

You were obviously in the right as there was no sign she was aware of your presence. However unreasonable people like that may be liable to make an injury claim against you and allege you rear-ended them. I suspect the only reason they didn't is because it didn't occur to them at the time. It's one of the reasons I got a dash-cam.

Very true. Good advice too.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 2:49pm

Have sometimes thought of getting a dashcam myself, but never got round to it. Maybe I'll do so soon.

Point of posting the story was that it's a more extreme example of the OP's story, involving a learner driver not being able to move off properly from a traffic light. I'm particularly mindful of how some people criticised somebody else for suggesting that learner drivers could practice such things more in a quiet area, before going out into a real traffic situation. I don't think anybody would disagree that this particular learner driver who I encountered could have done with more practice.

beauf · 11-08-2020 3:23pm

If I was 2-3 car lengths behind someone that was slowly slipping backwards I wouldn't have waited for them to hit me. I'd have gone around them.

Someone stalling at the lights and someone slipping backwards a few car lengths and hitting the car behind seem very different situations to me.

beauf · 11-08-2020 3:30pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

..... I'm particularly mindful of how some people criticised somebody else for suggesting that learner drivers could practice such things more in a quiet area, before going out into a real traffic situation.....

That's not what was being criticized....

Practise area is also a "real traffic" situation. Since it's not closed to other traffic. Besides someone can be fine in practise, but struggle under pressure. It's being under pressure they need to practice.

Doing hill starts on various gradients is also entirely different than on the flat. Lot more pressure. Christ Church hill used to flow in the opposite direction. Used to have to queue up hill in traffic at the lights on top.

punisher5112 · 11-08-2020 3:39pm

beauf wrote: »

Buses used to have a semi automatic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

Indeed they were, he was on them early 70s....

He drove them and then they went full auto.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 3:51pm

beauf wrote: »

If I was 2-3 car lengths behind someone that was slowly slipping backwards I wouldn't have waited for them to hit me. I'd have gone around them.

I had nowhere to go! Have already said I couldn't go backwards because there was a car right up behind me. By the time I realised the car rolling backwards wasn't going to stop, I had no space to move forwards to get all of my own car into the free space on the left. And if it was going to bump into me anyway, better that it hit my front bumper straight on, rather than hitting a side door or back panel at an angle. Oh, and I couldn't pull out to the right either, because there was other traffic in the lane there too.

beauf wrote: »

Someone stalling at the lights and someone slipping backwards a few car lengths and hitting the car behind seem very different situations to me.

Yes, I said it's a more extreme example. So by extension, it's different.

beauf wrote: »

That's not what was being criticized....

Practise area is also a "real traffic" situation. Since it's not closed to other traffic. Besides someone can be fine in practise, but struggle under pressure. It's being under pressure they need to practice.

Doing hill starts on various gradients is also entirely different than on the flat. Lot more pressure. Christ Church hill used to flow in the opposite direction. Used to have to queue up hill in traffic at the lights on top.

I honestly don't know what your point is here. Of course moving off from a hill start is different from moving off on the flat. I merely suggested that the driver I encountered would have benefited from practicing hill starts a bit more, before she put herself into that situation.

I didn't think anybody would disagree with that. But if you think it's okay for somebody to practice hill starts in a situation where they're liable to lose control of their car and roll backwards down a hill, into other traffic, then that's your perogative and I'm not going to be able to change that.

Your attitude towards me seems to have changed since I suggested that a learner driver could practice more in a quiet area before going into "real" traffic, and I don't understand that either.

beauf · 11-08-2020 4:02pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

I had nowhere to go! Have already said I couldn't go backwards because there was a car right up behind me. By the time I realised the car rolling backwards wasn't going to stop, I had no space to move forwards to get all of my own car into the free space on the left. And if it was going to bump into me anyway, better that it hit my front bumper straight on, rather than hitting a side door or back panel at an angle. Oh, and I couldn't pull out to the right either, because there was other traffic in the lane there too.

..maybe you should practice somewhere quiet...anticipation etc. You knew there was likely to be an issue, hill, learner, you left 2-3 spaces. That's a long way back unless they rolled back at speed. If they did that they would have caused damage.

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

.... I merely suggested that the driver I encountered would have benefited from practicing hill starts a bit more, before she put herself into that situation.

I didn't think anybody would disagree with that. But if you think it's okay for somebody to practice hill starts in a situation where they're liable to lose control of their car and roll backwards down a hill, into other traffic, then that's your perogative and I'm not going to be able to change that.

So you drove up behind a L plater practicing hill starts. That puts a slightly different perspective on it.

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Your attitude towards me seems to have changed since I suggested that a learner driver could practice more in a quiet area before going into "real" traffic, and I don't understand that either.

Not really I said it was a bit redundant destroying the horn after they've run into to you. Best to avoid an accident than watch it happen.

beauf · 11-08-2020 4:03pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Indeed they were, he was on them early 70s....

He drove them and then they went full auto.

Maybe it was so ingrained it found it very hard to "shift" his habits.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 4:30pm

beauf wrote: »

..maybe you should practice somewhere quiet...anticipation etc. You knew there was likely to be an issue, hill, learner, you left 2-3 spaces. That's a long way back unless they rolled back at speed. If they did that they would have caused damage.

So you drove up behind a L plater practicing hill starts. That puts a slightly different perspective on it.

Not really I said it was a bit redundant destroying the horn after they've run into to you. Best to avoid an accident than watch it happen.

Lol. You're being ridiculous now.

As the car first began to roll back, I wasn't overly worried. I expected the driver to apply the brakes, same as probably 99% of drivers (even learner drivers) would do in that case.

By the time I realised that they weren't braking, and sounded the first horn, they were back maybe half a car length or more. By the time it became obvious that they still wouldn't be braking, they were back more than a full car length. That left me less than two lengths to try move forwards and to the left, out of the way (I don't know about your car, but my wheels don't turn a full 90 degrees to the left, to allow me to move just sideways). And I'd have been doing so while they were still rolling backwards, so the space between us would have been getting tighter from both directions.

Again, I had no space to go backwards, and no space to go right.

So, what's your alternative here?

Sound the horn the split second the car in front started rolling back, instead of having a little patience and giving the benefit of the doubt, that they'd apply the brakes in the way that 99% of people would? That would make me as bad and impatient as the fella who blew the horn in the situation described at the beginning of this thread.

Head straight across the cycle lane and onto the footpath the split second the car started to roll back? And then in 99% of cases end up looking like a right over-reacting eejit when the driver in front applies the brakes anyway, the way that 99% of drivers would?

Leave more car lengths between myself and the learner driver in front? How many? 5, 10, 20? But then if they still didn't apply the brakes, they'd be picking up more speed all the time before finally hitting me, and maybe doing the damage you mention.

I "drove up behind a L-plater practicing hill starts"????? What was I supposed to have done? Turned around and gone a different way? Or pulled in to the side of the road and waited until they were through the lights, and out of sight?

Or even if I did....there's a roundabout about a mile and a half further out that road, that the County Council says is the busiest roundabout in Co. Wexford. What if I caught up with them again there? Should I again turn round and go a different way, or pull in to the side of the road until they got through, just in case they were practicing roundabouts too?

Finally, "best to avoid an accident rather than watch it happen"....I left a few car lengths space in order to minimise the chances of anything happening in case a learner driver did happen to roll back a bit while doing a hill start. I used the horn exactly as it's intended when it first became clear they weren't braking. And in the circumstances I've outlined, with so little space left in front to try move out of the way to the left, and nowhere to go to either the right or behind, pray tell what more you would have done to avoid this particular bump.

Will be waiting eagerly to see if you can possibly be any more ridiculous.

beauf · 11-08-2020 4:34pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

....That left me less than two lengths to try move forwards and to the left, out of the way (I don't know about your car, but my wheels don't turn a full 90 degrees to the left, to allow me to move just sideways). ....

Personally I wouldn't have a problem getting out with two car lengths in front of me. I wouldn't need wheels to turn 90 degrees to do that.

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

....What if I caught up with them again there? Should I again turn round and go a different way, or pull in to the side of the road until they got through...

Maybe you should try quieter roads. Car parks and or your own driveway has been suggested.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 5:34pm

Good man. Don't quote the bit where I pointed out that the less than two car lengths is also being shortened by their car rolling backwards. So effectively, the space available to move into the left is less than one car length.

On your other point - congratulations on being even more ridiculous.

beauf · 11-08-2020 7:19pm

I was really hoping for something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6xafRPTNA8

Road rage incident learner driver

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