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Is boss unreasonable?

12467

Comments

  • #152
    JoChervil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    beauf wrote: »
    Well its an emergency time is short. But You're really saying his emergency is less important than micromanaging it.

    They are a micromanager, he knows everything. If he doesn't then the micromanagement is a bit pointless, its just micromanaging with no purpose. Classic symptom.

    The other side of this is you don't trust a senior person with decades of experience to know how handle this. Their inability (real or imagined) and the lack of trust is also classic symptom of micromanaging. You don't trust their judgement, and you don't trust the person they delegated too. In fact you have to do everything yourself. Which is mismanagement.



    At the end of the day its interesting how this is triggering people here. Both in not seeing micromanaging, as they do it, and can't see the issue. Others because they've experienced first hand micromanagement, and the negative impacts it can have.

    It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

    I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.


  • #153
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    JoChervil wrote: »
    It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

    I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.

    Why would it be personal. It's just a management style. You meet it regularly. It's just inefficient and time wasting. You don't want them on your team or project.


  • #154
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I can
    And in every job I've had for the last 15 years, I've been able to.
    (bar the one with the nutcase micro-manager)

    Adults in senior positions need to be trusted and be able to trust their manager.

    I'd never leave a job without getting it covered. I'd often leave and chat to my boss the day after and let them know I'd to nip off for something. It's a 2 way street. I'll often come in early for something that must be done. I've done many Saturdays or nights in my time without asking or being asked

    Can everyone you work with, ya’know, dash off whenever they want for whatever reason, without informing their manager? I ask because, there would no doubt be people who would complain why you are allowed to and they aren’t.

    A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.


  • #155
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Dav010 wrote: »
    A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.

    In my current company....yep.
    We're all professionals who have a job to do.
    We do our jobs and those above and below us do theirs.

    It's not all cupcakes and lemonade.
    None of us do less than our contacted 37.5 hours.
    But if a colleague (on any level) needs to run we cover them.
    If a colleague gets in trouble or gets snowed under we pitch in to help and would expect them to reciprocate.

    It's not like it happens every day.

    Our clients are more than happy with our services.
    Our CEO would be pretty pissed if a manager behaved as the OP's has.


  • #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    In my current company....yep.
    We're all professionals who have a job to do.
    We do our jobs and those above and below us do theirs.

    It's not all cupcakes and lemonade.
    None of us do less than our contacted 37.5 hours.
    But if a colleague (on any level) needs to run we cover them.
    If a colleague gets in trouble or gets snowed under we pitch in to help and would expect them to reciprocate.

    It's not like it happens every day.

    Our clients are more than happy with our services.
    Our CEO would be pretty pissed if a manager behaved as the OP's has.

    You do understand that the type of working arrangements you have would not apply in other sectors/businesses? Or do you think all offices work like this?


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  • #157
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You do understand that the type of working arrangements you have would not apply in other sectors/businesses? Or do you think all offices work like this?

    Doubt it'd work on an assembly line.
    But by the same token I'm shocked at how old fashioned an inflexible a lot of "modern" workplaces are.

    Anyway. I like my workplace. I'd hate the OPs.
    So to the OP, I believe your boss is unreasonable.
    But if it fits with company ethos maybe it's acceptable in the company.

    Either way I've seen similar ****e elsewhere. Some companies need to move with the times


  • #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I can
    And in every job I've had for the last 15 years, I've been able to.
    (bar the one with the nutcase micro-manager)

    Adults in senior positions need to be trusted and be able to trust their manager.

    I'd never leave a job without getting it covered. I'd often leave and chat to my boss the day after and let them know I'd to nip off for something. It's a 2 way street. I'll often come in early for something that must be done. I've done many Saturdays or nights in my time without asking or being asked

    Gonna call bull**** Im afraid.

    One small company, fair enough. All of them and jobs can always be covered? Bull.


  • #159
    JoChervil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    beauf wrote: »
    Why would it be personal. It's just a management style. You meet it regularly. It's just inefficient and time wasting. You don't want them on your team or project.

    Because you "protest too much"?


  • #160
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Gonna call bull**** Im afraid.

    One small company, fair enough. All of them and jobs can always be covered? Bull.

    Your perogitive to call what you like.
    No skin off my nose.
    But calling people liars on the internet without proof seems agressive and needlessly so
    Can only speak from experience


  • #161
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Doubt it'd work on an assembly line.
    But by the same token I'm shocked at how old fashioned an inflexible a lot of "modern" workplaces are.

    Anyway. I like my workplace. I'd hate the OPs.
    So to the OP, I believe your boss is unreasonable.
    But if it fits with company ethos maybe it's acceptable in the company.

    Either way I've seen similar ****e elsewhere. Some companies need to move with the times

    Come down to flexibility... an employer will be ringing an employee seeking they be 'flexible' and come to work at a moments notice if there is a sick call.. say two people out of the business on holiday and third goes sick... pretty much a crises. They appreciate flexibility 'for them'...

    In the case of when they can, could and should reciprocate that .... they refuse to be flexible and start quoting policy...? Thats when they need want flexibility and a dig out themselves... i just say 'sorry, no can do'... all i's dotted and t's crossed... they lose and lost or certain manager lost more in the long run. :)


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  • #162
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    OP you wanna be careful that your boss or work colleague doesn't recognise you on this thread


  • #163
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    JoChervil wrote: »
    Because you "protest too much"?

    I'm not protesting though. I just agreed it was micromanaging. I said the boss was entitled to run his buniess how he likes.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116663610&postcount=5

    People seemed all the toys out of the pram when you mention micromanaging for some reason.
    You can see why WFH struggles to gain traction in that mindset.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/04/microsoft-japan-four-day-work-week-productivity


  • #164
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    JoChervil wrote: »
    It looks like you have a personal vendetta against a micromanager. I already said in few posts earlier in the thread, what I thought about it.

    I don't see the reason why you can't attend emergency and inform your boss at the same time. But some people would use any opportunity against their bosses. And you really can't find more nobel cause like an emergency for it.

    Its a bit like the 5 minute jobs that people get. It only takes 5 minutes ya right more like 20-30 minutes. In this case Op's priotized that five minutes. She rang a colleague WFH to to hand over a priority job that need completing. She informed a senior colleague that she had to go to attend an emergency.

    Her boss came back to the office and was informed she was gone. I would imagine OP informed her work collegue that she had reassigned a priority task so her boss should have know that. He rang her and seem's to be huffed as she was short with him however she did tell him she was following an ambulance. TBH you do not need much more info

    As I said earlier next time ring the f@@ker before you reassign your workload and hopefully he is in a important meeting or on the golf course and when he asks you to reassign your workloand tell him it like committing a crime there is one phone call in emergencies and he has just got it and to sort an issues himself as that was the choice he has landed himself in.

    Like I said if you want to be an asshole grand but assholes get kicked as hard as possible

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #165
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Its a bit like the 5 minute jobs that people get. It only takes 5 minutes ya right more like 20-30 minutes. In this case Op's priotized that five minutes. She rang a colleague WFH to to hand over a priority job that need completing. She informed a senior colleague that she had to go to attend an emergency.

    Her boss came back to the office and was informed she was gone. I would imagine OP informed her work collegue that she had reassigned a priority task so her boss should have know that. He rang her and seem's to be huffed as she was short with him however she did tell him she was following an ambulance. TBH you do not need much more info

    As I said earlier next time ring the f@@ker before you reassign your workload and hopefully he is in a important meeting or on the golf course and when he asks you to reassign your workloand tell him it like committing a crime there is one phone call in emergencies and he has just got it and to sort an issues himself as that was the choice he has landed himself in.

    Like I said if you want to be an asshole grand but assholes get kicked as hard as possible

    That’s it, managers need to be made use that gray matter between their ears... if they want an avenue paved with goodwill to be the highway to success for the business / team... goodwill traffic runs both ways on that street... when it doesn’t, problems arise.


  • #166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    That’s it, managers need to be made use that gray matter between their ears... if they want an avenue paved with goodwill to be the highway to success for the business / team... goodwill traffic runs both ways on that street... when it doesn’t, problems arise.

    Strumms, have you ever been a manager, and ya’know, had to use that grey matter between your ears?


  • #167
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Strumms, have you ever been a manager, and ya’know, had to use that grey matter between your ears?

    Thread isn’t about me Dav but I certainly choose to use my grey matter yes. Thanks for asking. :)


  • #168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    Thread isn’t about me Dav but I certainly choose to use my grey matter yes. Thanks for asking. :)

    I’ll take that as a no. I think you posted before that you work in a warehouse. If you manage staff and set a precedent that the staff you manage can leave without letting you know, soon it becomes accepted practice, work slides, it’s your fault because you aren’t able to manage your staff, who is to blame? The manager of course.

    Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your manager.


  • #169
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I’ll take that as a no. I think you posted before that you work in a warehouse. If you manage staff and set a precedent that the staff you manage can leave without letting you know, soon it becomes accepted practice, work slides, it’s your fault because you aren’t able to manage your staff, who is to blame? The manager of course.

    Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your boss.

    Don’t think I work in a warehouse, so I don’t think I’d have ever posted that. :) but I’m sure if you are certain (somehow) I do work in a warehouse you can quote me having posted that....but sure remain in fantasy land and make stuff up about other posters :)

    In an ‘emergency’ an employee has to do what they have to do... employers should be understanding... if they are, that goodwill and understanding gets repaid... if they don’t, goodwill, flexibility doesn’t get paid back and contracted Monday-Friday 9-5 is the height of their effort for them.. :)


  • #170
    NewbridgeIR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    thefa wrote: »
    I would’ve thought it was more related to the potential of this becoming a more regular thing that some other team members may want to partake in too. Likely wanted to nip that in the bud. It does come across as a bit presumptuous to just up and leave because any decent manager would have let you go in the circumstances if asked. If a request for the 15 mins had been rejected, that would make them look bad.

    Exactly.
    Plenty people put in extra hours and sometimes will want to finish early or take a bit of time off for an appointment - it happens in my workplace often. There's never an issue with being facilitated - once people ask in advance. It's just a matter of courtesy.


  • #171
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    NewbridgeIR wrote: »
    Exactly.
    Plenty people put in extra hours and sometimes will want to finish early or take a bit of time off for an appointment - it happens in my workplace often. There's never an issue with being facilitated - once people ask in advance. It's just a matter of courtesy.

    I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.


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  • #172
    NewbridgeIR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    Strumms wrote: »
    I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.

    I've had to deal with a sudden medical emergency involving a seriously ill family member. It happened outside of work hours. I emailed and texted my boss to let them know what happened and to state that I would not be in work for a while. There was no issue as they could then arrange for someone to cover my work. "Your family comes first. Hope all goes ok. Let me know how things go when you get a chance." was the response.


  • #173
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    NewbridgeIR wrote: »
    I've had to deal with a sudden medical emergency involving a seriously ill family member. It happened outside of work hours. I emailed and texted my boss to let them know what happened and to state that I would not be in work for a while. There was no issue as they could then arrange for someone to cover my work. "Your family comes first. Hope all goes ok. Let me know how things go when you get a chance." was the response.

    Excellent.. good to be mindful too on receipt of news of a sudden and serious illness of a loved one it can and does impact and effect people differently..


  • #174
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Strumms wrote: »
    I agree, I’ve been in scenarios like that too...but a medical appointment that’s known about in advance and a ‘ sudden’ medical emergency would be vastly different scenarios.

    I suspect there are people here that expect you to request sick leave and emergency "leave" in advance. So they can decide if you need it.. and are genuinely puzzled why it's not possible.

    https://workchronicles.com/weird-flex-but-okay/

    Gets popcorn....


  • #175
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Dav010 wrote: »
    .

    Sometimes managers use their grey matter to make decisions and set guidelines that aren’t popular, but are necessary for the team to function. The ability to see, and make those calls is why some people make their way, and a lot don’t. Yes there are times and situations when leeway is advisable, but bringing it back around to the op, sometimes a quiet word is all that’s needed to give that guidance, otherwise it can develop into a bigger problem for everyone. So the reason I ask you, is that until you can been in that position and had to make that decision, you are just carping about something you have experience of only from the perspective of the person who wants to leave early and not inform your manager.

    By all means it's a managers or owners perogitive to manage any way they wish. But I think some people need to read OP's original post. It's a small company. 10-12 employees. OP is working there over10 years. She is a senior staff member. She had a family emergency that entailed a ambulance, not a dental appointment, not ducking out early to collect the kids from school.

    If he had called.memintobthe office for quite guidance he have got told that yes next time I ring him and if it went to voicemail I leave a message. It would be the only call I make.

    He is an asshole and stop trying to make out that it can be justified. Flexibility and guidance works both ways. This is not a new staff member that went home early or to a doctor's appointment without telling him. This is a staff member that has over ten years experience in his business.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #176
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,465 ✭✭✭MOH


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    The OP knew the company procedure, but chose not to follow it. The boss having a word is not unexpected.

    As regards the earlier issue about being asked to call in on Thursday after a Monday funeral: three days bereavement leave is pretty standard in companies that offer it. If you need more, then calling in with a sick-cert three days later would be the expected.

    Sure the boss could have worded it nicer - but he's a businessman, not a social worker. His first and most important job is to make sure the company can continue to pay your salary.

    What utter tripe.

    How do you know what company procedure is? Assume much?


  • #177
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Can everyone you work with, ya’know, dash off whenever they want for whatever reason, without informing their manager? I ask because, there would no doubt be people who would complain why you are allowed to and they aren’t.

    A manager such as yourself would have no problem if a couple of your team decided at midday to up and feck off home without telling you, seen as you can do it.


    Yes they can if they get a phone call to say there is an ambulance on the way to their house.


  • #178
    Ava Magnificent Instep
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ava Magnificent Instep


    I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to say to your boss you're leaving work during working hours. I've had to do it myself, say when one of my kids has been sick, take 30s to send a message that I am leaving (not asking to leave, just letting them know). I don't really know why you wouldn't, it keeps you covered.


  • #179
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Zechariah Freezing Kiwi wrote: »
    I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to say to your boss you're leaving work during working hours. I've had to do it myself, say when one of my kids has been sick, take 30s to send a message that I am leaving (not asking to leave, just letting them know). I don't really know why you wouldn't, it keeps you covered.

    And in a way OP did that. She priotized what she had to do. She contacted a colleague WFH to take over a priority task. She I formed a senior colleague on site of what was happening and why she was leaving. That must have taken 5+ minutes. Her boss is an asshole. Which would you prefer as an owner manager. A person that sorts what needs to be done before rushing out the door or ring you and land the whole lot on your lap. You could be in an important meeting, on holidays, at a social even or at a game of golf

    People need to read her original post 2-3 times because some seem to be of the opinion she just up and left

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #180
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Yes they can if they get a phone call to say there is an ambulance on the way to their house.

    What if it isn’t an ambulance on the way to their house? Are you the manager going to decide what constitutes an “emergency”? Other staff may feel their need to leave is no less valid or important. Again, it is worth remembering the op’s boss did not say she couldn’t leave, only that he wanted her to let him know.


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  • #181
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Get out of that job you're in for your own mental health. You will only end up getting more frustrated in the long-run.

    You should have rang your boss and let him know but at the same time he should have been more understanding. OP - it sounds like thins have been building up over the past few years and you've reached breaking points.

    Look elsewhere and he will realise what he's missing once you're gone. Look after number 1 - YOU.


  • #182
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What if it isn’t an ambulance on the way to their house? Are you the manager going to decide what constitutes an “emergency”? Other staff may feel their need to leave is no less valid or important. Again, it is worth remembering the op’s boss did not say she couldn’t leave, only that he wanted her to let him know.


    Lets stick with the OPs situation for now. Otherwise we are going off into the land of maybe and whataboutery.


  • #183
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    ...
    People need to read her original post 2-3 times because some seem to be of the opinion she just up and left

    Deliberately ignoring the context is very common on boards lately.


  • #184
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What if it isn’t an ambulance on the way to their house? Are you the manager going to decide what constitutes an “emergency”? Other staff may feel their need to leave is no less valid or important. Again, it is worth remembering the op’s boss did not say she couldn’t leave, only that he wanted her to let him know.


    It’s not up to the manager. The manager has ZERO say...There is legislation already covering it..

    Force Majeure Leave : It arises where, for urgent family reasons, the immediate presence of the employee is indispensable owing to an injury or illness of a close family member.

    A close family member is defined as one of the following:

    A child or adopted child of the employee
    The husband, wife or partner of the employee
    Parent or grandparent of the employee
    Brother or sister of the employee
    Person to whom the employee has a duty of care (that is, he/she is acting in loco parentis)
    A person in a relationship of domestic dependency with the employee
    Persons of any other class (if any) as may be prescribed
    The maximum amount of leave is 3 days in any 12-month period or 5 days in a 36-month period. You are entitled to be paid while you are on force majeure leave - see 'How to apply' below for more details. Your employer may grant you further leave.

    The last line of the legislation is key...


    You are protected against unfair dismissal for taking force majeure leave or proposing to take it.

    Any company or boss acting the prick artist, simply take them to court and invite the press... ;)


  • #185
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    In fairness. In the OP case, the boss wasn't blocking the OP or being unfair.
    It just set the OP off because of the ongoing stress. Which is often a product of being micromanaged.
    Often people can't the forest for the trees because they (including managers) get slowly sucked into inefficient way of doing things.


  • #186
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Thats FM & invite the press is just lunatic bar talk - the boss did not take them to task over it, was nice and friendly, hoped all was well, and said that in the future to let him/her know if they have an emergency and have to leave the office/job. It’s quite straightforward. Its called work and you are paid for a reason - you follow the policies or rules, report to your line manager and generally behave.
    As for the stress from being micromanaged - all medical conditions invented by other posters. Projection much.

    The OP seems to have a chip on his/her shoulder and thinks because they are there 10
    years that somehow the are now the owner or on an equal par with the owner. They’re not. They still have to follow the rules and report upwards. And in this instance they deliberately did not contact their manager to either ask or inform them that they were going to be out of the office - they contacted two others and then hung up on the owner when he rang. Sure you can coat it with any kind of historical boss hatred issues you want but it frankly smacks of not wanting to be told not to go, and not wanting to be accountable to their boss.

    And AKAIK the op was paid both when their father died and they were given leave of absence for a few days ( 3 is a max in a multinational - they got 3 in a SME) and not docked when they left this time to go and follow their mother to the hospital.

    I applied for a job a while back and to my shock in the screening pre-interview forms you had to answer what age bracket your parents were, whether they hd any illnesses such as alzheimers or dementia or other chronic/long-term illnesses, if you were the only carer available to them and a lode of other unsavorary and questionable questions. I was told it was for data purposes but i was 100% identifiable from the form and it was a stage 2 interview step - if you didn’t answer you were not getting the job. This was a huge employer with staff of thousands.

    You can be sure the day is coming when companies start asking quiet internal questions about peoples availability to do the work they are paid for - and start managing them out or quietly organising suitabaly qualified substitutes.

    If I were the OP I’d be following his rules and treading very carefully. Well paid long term specialist jobs just up the road will be increasingly hard to find and there is an ever increasing workforce available to do them - or gagging to be given a visa to come here to do them - and at a far lesser wage. No doubt they will be happy to follow company policy and be at their desk while drawing their salary - or have the basic cop on and manners to let their boss know before they expect to draw their saLary for not being at their desk and not telling their boss that they have disappeared or hanging up or refusing to talk when answering his calls. None of this looks good for the OP - and in a court its the boss who comes
    out smelling of roses here - definately
    not the OP.


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  • #187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Lets stick with the OPs situation for now. Otherwise we are going off into the land of maybe and whataboutery.

    Ok, let’s stick to the op’s situation. She had time and the presence of mind to inform two other people about leaving, but not her manager. Is that concise enough for you?

    If you want to expand that to comment on why the boss might want to be informed of her leaving, or why he is such a bad manager, then you have to consider the precedent not informing him sets for other situations where employees feel they should leave early without informing him.


  • #188
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Thats FM & invite the press is just lunatic bar talk - the boss did not take them to task over it, was nice and friendly, hoped all was well, and said that in the future to let him/her know if they have an emergency and have to leave the office/job. It’s quite straightforward. Its called work and you are paid for a reason - you follow the policies or rules, report to your line manager and generally behave.
    As for the stress from being micromanaged - all medical conditions invented by other posters. Projection much.

    The OP seems to have a chip on his/her shoulder and thinks because they are there 10
    years that somehow the are now the owner or on an equal par with the owner. They’re not. They still have to follow the rules and report upwards. And in this instance they deliberately did not contact their manager to either ask or inform them that they were going to be out of the office - they contacted two others and then hung up on the owner when he rang. Sure you can coat it with any kind of historical boss hatred issues you want but it frankly smacks of not wanting to be told not to go, and not wanting to be accountable to their boss.

    And AKAIK the op was paid both when their father died and they were given leave of absence for a few days ( 3 is a max in a multinational - they got 3 in a SME) and not docked when they left this time to go and follow their mother to the hospital.

    I applied for a job a while back and to my shock in the screening pre-interview forms you had to answer what age bracket your parents were, whether they hd any illnesses such as alzheimers or dementia or other chronic/long-term illnesses, if you were the only carer available to them and a lode of other unsavorary and questionable questions. I was told it was for data purposes but i was 100% identifiable from the form and it was a stage 2 interview step - if you didn’t answer you were not getting the job. This was a huge employer with staff of thousands.

    You can be sure the day is coming when companies start asking quiet internal questions about peoples availability to do the work they are paid for - and start managing them out or quietly organising suitabaly qualified substitutes.

    If I were the OP I’d be following his rules and treading very carefully. Well paid long term specialist jobs just up the road will be increasingly hard to find and there is an ever increasing workforce available to do them - or gagging to be given a visa to come here to do them - and at a far lesser wage. No doubt they will be happy to follow company policy and be at their desk while drawing their salary - or have the basic cop on and manners to let their boss know before they expect to draw their saLary for not being at their desk and not telling their boss that they have dissappeared or answering his calls.

    First off I will ask you one question as if you were an owner manager which would you prefer what the OP did sort the priority work and inform her senior work colleague in the building the situation or ring him and tell I rushing out the door it's a family emergency. The job is half done you have access to my computer as an administrator I send you a quick email with details of how much is complete.


    That interview you did the company is letting itself wide open for a discrimination case. Any unsuccessful applicant who'es parents suffer from any of the questions they asked could take them to the WRC or just inform it of the questions at stage two interviews. It could cost them not just thousands bit hundreds of thousands. While you may ask an applicant about there health details to go beyond that is invasion of privacy.

    Any applicant that takes a case can make the point they were discriminated against because of family circumstances. Look at the case of the women who was expecting and was not put forward by an employment company for a temporary 18 month contract.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #189
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Ok, let’s stick to the op’s situation. She had time and the presence of mind to inform two other people about leaving, but not her manager. Is that concise enough for you?

    If you want to expand that to comment on why the boss might want to be informed of her leaving, or why he is such a bad manager, then you have to consider the precedent not informing him sets for other situations where employees feel they should leave early without informing him.

    Like I posted as an owner manager which would you prefer what she did or if she rang and said I off its a family emergency.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #190
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    JustAThought wrote: »
    ...I applied for a job a while back and to my shock in the screening pre-interview forms you had to answer ....

    ...You can be sure the day is coming when companies start asking quiet internal questions about peoples availability ...

    ...Well paid long term specialist jobs just up the road will be increasingly hard to find ...

    Nice bit of scaremongering so people feel obliged to ignore mistreatment.

    I wish them well https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49811969
    The Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015 outlaw direct, and indirect discrimination and discrimination by association at work including all aspects of employment on the grounds of gender, civil and family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability,

    Lots of companies have terrible reputations for how they treat staff. So its not hard to avoid them. One of biggest complaints is companies can't get specialist staff. Perhaps those things are not unrelated.


  • #191
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Thats FM & invite the press is just lunatic bar talk -

    The OP seems to have a chip on his/her shoulder and thinks because they are .

    Lunatic bar talk ? You can tell that to whomever drew up said legislation, TD’s, Senators that enabled its passing and whichever president reviewed it, and signed it into law. :)


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  • #192
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Like I posted as an owner manager which would you prefer what she did or if she rang and said I off its a family emergency.


    They said the boss wasnt there didnt they.
    They said they arranged cover and told a senior member of staff.
    Whats the problem here?


  • #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    They said the boss wasnt there didnt they.
    They said they arranged cover and told a senior member of staff.
    Whats the problem here?

    Presumably the op didn’t tell the one person that she should have, her employer. Crikey, she had time to tell everyone else apparently.


  • #194
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    They said the boss wasnt there didnt they.
    They said they arranged cover and told a senior member of staff.
    Whats the problem here?

    The procedure is to ring the boss. No other way is accepted as an alternative, regardless if its more efficient or not, or thats a it a rare situation.


  • #195
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Presumably the op didn’t tell the one person that she should have, her employer. Crikey, she had time to tell everyone else apparently.


    I think you are over-egging the situation here.
    I dont tell Bill Gates when I go home early.


  • #196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think you are over-egging the situation here.
    I dont tell Bill Gates when I go home early.

    If Bill Gates is the name of your manager and policy is to inform him you need to leave, then Jimmy that is what you need to do. No shells broken.

    Incidentally, I watched a bio of Bill Gates, he was/is ruthless and wasn’t shy about cutting out people, so probably not the best example to use if your job was reporting directly to him.


  • #197
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    beauf wrote: »
    Nice bit of scaremongering so people feel obliged to ignore mistreatment.

    I wish them well https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49811969



    Lots of companies have terrible reputations for how they treat staff. So its not hard to avoid them. One of biggest complaints is companies can't get specialist staff. Perhaps those things are not unrelated.

    I wonder how tightly the law defines family status - AFAIK its about whether you are married or have kids.

    Not sure that having dependent elders or a family history of altzheimers is not necessarily protected.


  • #198
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If Bill Gates is the name of your manager and policy is to inform him you need to leave, then Jimmy that is what you need to do. No shells broken.

    Incidentally, I watched a bio of Bill Gates, he was/is ruthless and wasn’t shy about cutting out people, so probably not the best example to use if your job was reporting directly to him.


    And if Bill Gates is not in the office and I get a call that one of my kids is in an Ambulance then Bill Gates is expected to understand that I have more important things to do than talk to him.
    A quick shout to a colleague on the way out telling them what happened and will they take care of it for me is what will happen.


    Saw a girl at work drop the phone and run out in tears a few years ago.
    Didnt know what happened for a few hours when one of her friends got through to her. Her little boy had been brought to hospital after being knocked down. Dont think anyone minded. Even Bill.

    A bit of common sense is all that needs to be applied to this situation.


  • #199
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    And if Bill Gates is not in the office and I get a call that one of my kids is in an Ambulance then Bill Gates is expected to understand that I have more important things to do than talk to him.
    A quick shout to a colleague on the way out telling them what happened and will they take care of it for me is what will happen.


    Saw a girl at work drop the phone and run out in tears a few years ago.
    Didnt know what happened for a few hours when one of her friends got through to her. Her little boy had been brought to hospital after being knocked down. Dont think anyone minded. Even Bill.

    A bit of common sense is all that needs to be applied to this situation.

    Are you purposely misrepresenting what happened in the op’s case?

    Using the situation you experienced, did the girl run out, or did she stop and talk to two colleagues and explain that she was leaving, then not follow policy by not informing her manager, as in the op’s case?

    Jimmy, by any chance are there a levels of management between you an Bill? It’s a bit outlandish to be using him as an example.


  • #200
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Are you purposely misrepresenting what happened in the op’s case?

    Using the situation you experienced, did the girl run out, or did she stop and talk to two colleagues and explain that she was leaving, then not follow policy by not informing her manager, as in the op’s case?


    She ran out crying.
    Someone chased after her, but she was gone.
    As I said it was a few hours later that she answered the phone, in the hospital.
    People understood. Most people are good like that you know.
    I guess you would have reprimanded her, would you?
    As I said. Some common sense is all that is needed from people in these situations, not a nose in a rule book and a pointing finger.


  • #201
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,812 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    And if Bill Gates is not in the office and I get a call that one of my kids is in an Ambulance then Bill Gates is expected to understand that I have more important things to do than talk to him.
    A quick shout to a colleague on the way out telling them what happened and will they take care of it for me is what will happen.


    Saw a girl at work drop the phone and run out in tears a few years ago.
    Didnt know what happened for a few hours when one of her friends got through to her. Her little boy had been brought to hospital after being knocked down. Dont think anyone minded. Even Bill.

    A bit of common sense is all that needs to be applied to this situation.

    Unfortunately common sense is in short supply when it pertains to the incompetent and untrustworthy elements of the employer world..


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