Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

pixelburp · 06-02-2020 9:47am

FunLover18 wrote: »

Spielberg did KOTCS and part of the problem is that is just didn't feel like an Indiana Jones film. Whether it was the time setting or technology used it, it just didn't have that sense of adventure. I agree with your first point, they should leave it alone. I don't even think there's an appetite for it after KOTCS.

I'd say Spielbergs heart wasn't in it" maybe he had professional curiousity as to whether he could still make those rollicking adventure films of his youth, but ultimately he's a different man to the one that made Raiders... perhaps he has simply forgotten how. I don't hate Crystal Skull anywhere near as much as others, but it was definitely a looser, more half hearted film lacking in a lot of the bite & crunch of the other films.

I don't believe there's an appetite for the film either, and maybe this is what these pronouncements are for; similar to tech companies accidentally-deliberately releasing chatter of a new feature coming, to gauge the public mood (so killing it can allow them to brag that they "listen to our customers"), Kennedy was simply doing the same thing and viewing if people want an Indy 5.

Kingp35 · 06-02-2020 11:08am

The major problem with KOTCS for me was the over reliance on CGI. It looked terrible. That monkey scene was atrocious.

There's no need to make another Indy film.

El Duda · 06-02-2020 11:13am

I always felt that Spielberg, much like Scorsese did with The Irishman, would return to his roots and direct one more huge, fantastical adventure film. Be it an Indiana, Jaws, Close Encounters, Jurassic Park etc...

An Indiana Jones sequel would be the most likely, but I would opt for the creature feature any day of the week.

73bc61lyohr0mu · 06-02-2020 11:14am

I want Danny DeVito as Indiana Jones...

pixelburp · 06-02-2020 11:16am

El Duda wrote: »

I always felt that Spielberg, much like Scorsese did with The Irishman, would return to his roots and direct one more huge, fantastical adventure film. Be it an Indiana, Jaws, Close Encounters, Jurassic Park etc...

An Indiana Jones sequel would be the most likely, but I would opt for the creature feature any day of the week.

Hasn't he already tried that a few times, with fairly underwhelming results? Between Crystal Skull, Tintin, Ready Player One, and the BFG he seems to have lost something of his old craft with those newer blockbusters. I hold a candle for War of the Worlds though, being arguably also part of that grouping. Conversely I've enjoyed most of his grounded, "serious" recent work. Maybe he just doesn't know how to handle CGI, marry it into his work?

Tony EH · 06-02-2020 3:38pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

The major problem with KOTCS for me was the over reliance on CGI. It looked terrible. That monkey scene was atrocious.

There's no need to make another Indy film.

Frankly, I stopped liking Indy films after Temple of Doom. But, yeh, the CGI is real problem in Crystal Skull. But it's a problem with a lot of modern movies. The big issue is that, far too often, it just makes things look stupid, as opposed to exciting or dramatic.

Look at the scenes in Raiders, such as Vic Armstrong being dragged by a truck along a desert road. That's a ridiculous scenario, but you can buy it because it really is a man being dragged by a truck along a desert road. So, while it's spectacular and there's trickery involved, it's not completely unbelievable.

Now contrast that with the monkey scene you mentioned, where everything is completely fake. Or that stupid ants scene where the Russian lad gets dragged into a hole.

It's just dumb.

CGI has been both a great asset and a bane to modern movies. But it allows film makers to indulge in their most ridiculous of thoughts, when years ago those ideas would have been dropped and usually to the betterment of the film.

Dades · 06-02-2020 6:25pm

Tony EH wrote: »

CGI has been both a great asset and a bane to modern movies. But it allows film makers to indulge in their most ridiculous of thoughts, when years ago those ideas would have been dropped and usually to the betterment of the film.

I see you, George Lucas. :pac:

Tony EH wrote: »

Frankly, I stopped liking Indy films after Temple of Doom.

No love for The Last Crusade? You monster.

pixelburp · 06-02-2020 7:30pm

Oh don't start Tony on Last Crusade

IIRC he wasn't impressed with the comedy

buried · 06-02-2020 7:51pm

No love for 'The Last Crusade' here either. Was gimmicky as feic. I knew I was going to have problems once I seen some young lad playing Indiana right from the get go. This forced cartoonish explaination of mannerisms of the character that the audience don't really need, "oooh look so thats where he got his scar" "ooooh look so that's where he learned to use the whip" all in the space of two minutes too. The whole story was just a way to shoe-horn in his father and the rest of the boys from Raiders. There is no darkness or sense of the occult that is heavily prevailant in the first two. The soundtrack is really really forgettable too, nothing I can remember standing out except the theme that was already taken from 'Raiders'. No real editing of the score tracks to the scenes on the screen which was masterfully done in the first two either. Its definitely the weakest of the three for me.

Tony EH · 06-02-2020 7:52pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh don't start Tony on Last Crusade IIRC he wasn't impressed with the comedy

Mark Hamill · 07-02-2020 9:33am

Jacksie66.1 wrote: »

I want Danny DeVito as Indiana Jones...

"Indy, how did you defeat that guy with the impressive swords skills?"

UI_Paddy · 07-02-2020 2:44pm

Dades wrote: »

I see you, George Lucas. :pac:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if when this comes out we see complaints about what a missed opportunity him not being there to offer some ideas was. Love him or hate him Lucas is still one of the best in Hollywood for worldbuilding.

trashcan · 07-02-2020 9:10pm

Raiders is an absolute stone cold classic. None of the sequels come close.

silverharp · 07-02-2020 11:21pm

trashcan wrote: »

Raiders is an absolute stone cold classic. None of the sequels come close.

it goes on my list of movies I have seen several times and would have no problem watching again

the purple tin · 11-02-2020 2:58pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D

Love it. Fun fact, this scene was originally written as a big choreographed fight between Indie and the badguy. On the day they were shooting it HF had bad tummy trouble from the local cuisine and wasn't in the mood for leaping around the place doing stunts. He asked Spielberg 'look, why can't I just shoot the guy?'.

seamus · 11-02-2020 3:15pm

The over reliance on CGI was definitely one of the big failing points of KOTCS.

I think part of the greatness of the Lucasfilms of that era (including Star Wars) was the fact that they went for outrageous physical stunts, but there was always going to be a limit to what they could achieve.

This maintained by default a basic sense of realism. If the script called for something that the SFX or stunt guys just couldn't get to work, then they'd rework it to go as far as they could.

CGI by comparison has no limits. Whatever is written in the script can go onto the screen. The audience implicitly knows that it's unrealistic. And CGI allows for big spectacles to be overused. The gigantic space battle used to be a showpiece in a movie. Now every space movie starts with an epic space battle and has 3 or 4 more thrown in before the end.

11-02-2020 3:22pm

Here's something I thought I'd never say... rewatched Skull during Christmas, and I thought it aged well. In that I enjoyed it, whereas I hated it beyond belief when it first came out. However, that tool swinging through the trees is still epic proportions bad.

Skerries · 11-02-2020 4:35pm

they'll probably try and de-age him like in The Irishman and make a **** up like that film

They should just recast and go back to the Nazi era

johnny_ultimate · 26-02-2020 8:04pm

Indiana Jones And The Development Cycle of Hell

(Aka Spielberg Out, Mangold Maybe In)

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/steven-spielberg-indiana-jones-5-james-mangold-harrison-ford-1203515698/

pixelburp · 26-02-2020 8:28pm

That'd feel like a fairly regressive move IMO for Mangold, who has created a tidy, respectable CV for himself. Logan is probably the highest high, with a solid list of Legitimately Decent films. And Kate & Leopold.

Maybe with Iger stepping down this will get lost in the transfer of power. One can hope.

FunLover18 · 27-02-2020 11:39am

James Mangold reportedly in talks to take directing reigns from Spielberg.

https://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1232976165884829696?s=19

27-02-2020 1:29pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

James Mangold reportedly in talks to take directing reigns from Spielberg.

https://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1232976165884829696?s=19

That's a pity. It's George Lucas' sticky fingers that need to be kept away.

Zubeneschamali · 28-02-2020 7:31am

pixelburp wrote: »

Logan is probably the highest high, with a solid list of Legitimately Decent films.

Would be wonderful if Mangold got control and killed Indy off as perfectly as he killed

Professor X and Wolverine.

But forget it, Jake, it's Disney.

py2006 · 29-02-2020 9:26pm

Do we know why Spielberg is out?

Mad_maxx · 01-03-2020 9:54pm

buried wrote: »

No love for 'The Last Crusade' here either. Was gimmicky as feic. I knew I was going to have problems once I seen some young lad playing Indiana right from the get go. This forced cartoonish explaination of mannerisms of the character that the audience don't really need, "oooh look so thats where he got his scar" "ooooh look so that's where he learned to use the whip" all in the space of two minutes too. The whole story was just a way to shoe-horn in his father and the rest of the boys from Raiders. There is no darkness or sense of the occult that is heavily prevailant in the first two. The soundtrack is really really forgettable too, nothing I can remember standing out except the theme that was already taken from 'Raiders'. No real editing of the score tracks to the scenes on the screen which was masterfully done in the first two either. Its definitely the weakest of the three for me.

Agreed, never got the love for the last crusade.

I've no truck with temple of doom either however, Mrs Spielberg makes it unwatchable alone

El Duda · 02-03-2020 1:30pm

I've just finished watching the initial trilogy and agree that The Last Crusade is fairly weak. Especially in the first hour.

There's plenty of exciting stunts and humour in the final hour but it definitley feels different to the others in tone. Too much levity.

02-03-2020 1:34pm

El Duda wrote: »

I've just finished watching the initial trilogy and agree that The Last Crusade is fairly weak. Especially in the first hour.

There's plenty of exciting stunts and humour in the final hour but it definitley feels different to the others in tone. Too much levity.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Agreed, never got the love for the last crusade.

I've no truck with temple of doom either however, Mrs Spielberg makes it unwatchable alone

While I agree Raiders is the most iconic, saying Last Crusade is weak is going to get you taken off my Christmas card list! Fair warning

pixelburp · 02-03-2020 1:37pm

py2006 wrote: »

Do we know why Spielberg is out?

No, but I can't imagine it's anything more straightforward than an apathy to return to the well for a fifth time, especially as Crystal Skull was received so poorly, with the realities of Harrison Ford's age. Spielberg doesn't seem that invested in Blockbusters anymore, more content to direct output like Bridge of Spies or The Post.

Besides, blockbusters just don't look like Indiana Jones anymore, heck they don't even look like National Treasure. The recent Tomb Raider reboot was a pretty unashamed Indy clone (obviously), but felt so derivative I just don't think the appetite or zeitgeist is there.

Agent Coulson · 18-04-2020 9:17pm

Pushed back to July 29th 2022 now.

JP Liz V1 · 13-12-2020 11:41pm

frash wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55270909

Can't see it working but hopefully I'm wrong - he'll be 78
Releases in July 2022

How about Joaquin Phoenix as his enemy nemesis

trashcan · 14-12-2020 12:29am

Skerries wrote: »

they'll probably try and de-age him like in The Irishman and make a **** up like that film

They should just recast and go back to the Nazi era

They should leave it alone, is what they should do.

py2006 · 14-12-2020 6:05pm

buried wrote: »

No love for 'The Last Crusade' here either. Was gimmicky as feic. I knew I was going to have problems once I seen some young lad playing Indiana right from the get go. This forced cartoonish explaination of mannerisms of the character that the audience don't really need, "oooh look so thats where he got his scar" "ooooh look so that's where he learned to use the whip" all in the space of two minutes too. The whole story was just a way to shoe-horn in his father and the rest of the boys from Raiders. There is no darkness or sense of the occult that is heavily prevailant in the first two. The soundtrack is really really forgettable too, nothing I can remember standing out except the theme that was already taken from 'Raiders'. No real editing of the score tracks to the scenes on the screen which was masterfully done in the first two either. Its definitely the weakest of the three for me.

Ah ya miserable pip squeak!! It was enjoyable popcorn movie with good chemistry between Ford and Connery. Some gooood humour too

buried · 14-12-2020 6:34pm

py2006 wrote: »

Ah ya miserable pip squeak!! It was enjoyable popcorn movie with good chemistry between Ford and Connery. Some gooood humour too

Ah yeah its alright like, its just that if it was on TV I wouldn't actually sit to watch it with a box of sweets like the other two. Yeah, there was good humour in it, but there was way way too much humour shoehorned into it just for the sake of it, up to the point very early on it became gimicky and very franchisey. It totally killed the sense of threat or any semblance of darkness that was in the other two. No balance to it.
I was nearly expecting Indiana's auld wan to show up somewhere along the lines giving out to the whole lot of them.

whisky_galore · 14-12-2020 9:24pm

buried wrote: »

Ah yeah its alright like, its just that if it was on TV I wouldn't actually sit to watch it with a box of sweets like the other two. Yeah, there was good humour in it, but there was way way too much humour shoehorned into it just for the sake of it, up to the point very early on it became gimicky and very franchisey. It totally killed the sense of threat or any semblance of darkness that was in the other two. No balance to it.
I was nearly expecting Indiana's auld wan to show up somewhere along the lines giving out to the whole lot of them.

Oh come on, it's Indy, not fawkin Citizen Kane.

buried · 14-12-2020 9:33pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Oh come on, it's Indy, not fawkin Citizen Kane.

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but the first two films are such proper 'stand alone' pieces of good work, good sequential, proper sequential editing 'popcorn' pieces of work, and they are really are. They may not be 'Citizen Kane' but 'Raiders of The Lost Ark' isn't far off from the forward pushing boundaries 'Citizen Kane' had to showcase either, 'ROTLA' is the first motion picture to edit the images on the screen to the sounds and the music emanating from the orchestral score made by John Williams, for example. 'Last Crusade' had literally none of that.
Even 'Temple of Doom' had some of that brilliant stuff going on in the background too. It made it more than it was. The last crusade was lazy as f**k compared to them.

MfMan · 14-12-2020 9:50pm

buried wrote: »

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but the first two films are such proper 'stand alone' pieces of good work, good sequential, proper sequential editing 'popcorn' pieces of work, and they are really are. They may not be 'Citizen Kane' but 'Raiders of The Lost Ark' isn't far off from the forward pushing boundaries 'Citizen Kane' had to showcase either, 'ROTLA' is the first motion picture to edit the images on the screen to the sounds and the music emanating from the orchestral score made by John Williams, for example. 'Last Crusade' had literally none of that.
Even 'Temple of Doom' had some of that brilliant stuff going on in the background too. It made it more than it was. The last crusade was lazy as f**k compared to them.

Agree strongly with this. For me, the whole series can be rated exponentially downwards in chronological order. The first two were a perfect blend of action, humour and darkness. 'Crusade' played too much for laughs between Connery and Junior and neglected largely the dramatic tension of the earlier instalments. The FX were lazy and and denouement too far fetched to be any way credible.

Wedwood · 15-12-2020 12:22am

James Mangold is a good pick to conclude the Indiana Jones series. His take on Logan shows how he can freshen things up. This movie is only being made to give a more fitting send off to the character, similar to Stallone going back to make Rocky Balboa after the awful Rocky V.

Crystal Skull isn’t as bad as some would make it out to be, but it’s the movie that never gets taken out of the boxset ahead of the other three. Spielberg made a mess of it by using so much CGI which looks worse as the years go by. The CGI free scenes are ok (motorcycle chase/graveyard chase)

Hopefully Mangold ditches the CGI and films in actual locations.

Mr Crispy · 09-04-2021 6:19pm

John Williams is returning to score, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge joins the cast.

pixelburp · 09-04-2021 6:23pm

Mr Crispy wrote: »

John Williams is returning to score, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge joins the cast.

I'm still astounded this is still happening. Ford is just so old at this stage, it's farcical to think they can hide this. Especially in the modern era of action films being so much more kinetic than before.

Wish they'd just rip the band aid off and cast Chris Pratt. Don't want him myself, or anyone else in the role but I just have this inking the executives have Pratt lined up for the reboot. Better it be done now and let the series die then than watch Ford degrade himself.

mikhail · 09-04-2021 7:09pm

It feels like a geezer teaser at this point.

Mr Crispy · 09-04-2021 9:00pm

I like PWB, but I hope this is realistic and she's playing Indy's nurse.

brevity · 09-04-2021 9:09pm

I think Pratt would just play his character from Jurassic Park which would be a disaster in my opinion.

It’s hard to think of someone who could do a good job.

Mr Crispy · 09-04-2021 9:13pm

brevity wrote: »

I think Pratt would just play his character from Jurassic Park which would be a disaster in my opinion.

It’s hard to think of someone who could do a good job.

Are we talking a reboot, or a passing on of the torch whip to A.N. Other?

Agree about Pratt though. I like him (mostly for Parks & Rec), but he's limited.

YoshiReturns · 09-04-2021 9:58pm

Could they not ... find a new/unknown actor ... just like Harrison Ford was pretty much at the time he did Star Wars and later Raiders.

silverharp · 09-04-2021 10:04pm

how can it be anything but garbage

YoshiReturns · 09-04-2021 10:05pm

Be thankful it's not Howard the duck 5.

09-04-2021 11:25pm

Indiana Jones and the Zimmerframe of Ward 5

Will still be better than Skull

MisterAnarchy · 09-04-2021 11:45pm

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Phoebe Waller-Bridge joins the cast.

Oh dear me.

Is she being added to make Indy more woke and relatable to women like she did with the Bond script.

They should have stopped after the Last Crusade.

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-04-2021 11:59pm

The soundtrack will probably be the only good thing about this.

Mr Crispy · 10-04-2021 12:08am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Oh dear me.

Is she being added to make Indy more woke and relatable to women like she did with the Bond script.

They should have stopped after the Last Crusade.

I stopped reading at "woke".

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

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