Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

Yggr of Asgard · 03-12-2015 12:25pm #1

As of today www.number26.eu is opening their accounts (Mastercard debit/online banking account with IBAN) for Irish residents.

It has no fees and all management is done via an app, there is a webpage but for some authentications you need the app.

Verification of ID is done via a video chat (which takes pictures of the id documents too).

There are some spending limits (2000€ atm withdraw a week, 4000€ card spending in a month) but it's a free prepaid debit card with it's own IBAN and full account features (direct debit included).

Takes about 7 minutes to open, easy way to a German bank account.

user1842 · 03-12-2015 3:45pm

This is great news as there is no currency transaction fee for card transactions. Great for Sterling and Dollar purchases.

This is a full bank account (no cheques though) and comes with the German deposit protection scheme. You can mandate your salary into the account no problem.

SEPA working at last.

Delta2113 · 04-12-2015 2:51pm

This sounds like a Game Changer - direct debit - does cashback work? Standing Orders?

Advantages and disadvantages to Revolut?

user1842 · 04-12-2015 3:04pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

This sounds like a Game Changer - direct debit - does cashback work? Standing Orders?

Advantages and disadvantages to Revolut?

I don't think Revolut is a bank account as you don't get a BIC and IBAN and you are not protected under the deposit protection scheme.

Direct debits and standing orders work perfectly with Number26, not sure about cashback.

Yggr of Asgard · 04-12-2015 3:32pm

Direct Debit works fine (now there are still some Irish companies which don't do debits from non Irish accounts)

Standing orders can be done, however payments can only be made in € at this time to SEPA area, no SWIFT.

Cashback, that won't work as the card is coded as a credit card.

Advantages
Money protected by German Bank Guarantee vs. ring fenced
Full bank account behind it
Better Card Block (per transaction type)
Better transaction monitoring (app & e-mail notifications)

Disadvantages
No Debit Card loading
No multi currency wallet so you can't convert money in advance of spending to know how much you get
Mastercard currency rates which are fixed once daily vs. revoluts dynamic rates that change during the day.

Revolut is good if you want to transfer money to a different currency before you spend so that you know how much € you need to pay for your £/$.

Number26 is good if you want a free bank account with a card.

user1842 · 04-12-2015 3:39pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

(now there are still some Irish companies which don't do debits from non Irish accounts)

These companies are acting illegally and should be reported to the Central Bank of Ireland who are the competent authority of REGULATION (EU) No 260/2012.

Yggr of Asgard · 04-12-2015 4:10pm

user1842 wrote: »

These companies are acting illegally and should be reported to the Central Bank of Ireland who are the competent authority of REGULATION (EU) No 260/2012.

I did that once, the outcome was nothing. I have 2 companies that won't debit non Irish accounts and complaining did not bring any results.

user1842 · 04-12-2015 4:17pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

user1842 wrote: »

These companies are acting illegally and should be reported to the Central Bank of Ireland who are the competent authority of REGULATION (EU) No 260/2012.

I did that once, the outcome was nothing. I have 2 companies that won't debit non Irish accounts and complaining did not bring any results.

Can you name the companies? or is that allowed on boards.ie?

If you complain to the Central Bank of Ireland they have to follow up and should have responded back to you. If you think the CBI is not dealing with your complaint, complain directly to the European Commission: http://europa.eu/contact/write-to-us/index_en.htm
The Commission has the power to fine member states for breaching regulations.

We need to keep complaining to get this sorted. Companies should not be allowed to breach European regulations.

Delta2113 · 04-12-2015 7:04pm

Do I have a local MasterCard?

Your MasterCard is issued as local in the country of your shipping address, which means it will be recognized as local in the country you reside. It will work with services that verify your location based on your MasterCard information. If you disable your MasterCard for international transactions inside the NUMBER26 app, it will work only in your country of residence.

Should you move to another country, your card will retain its local status in your initial country of residence. If you move to a country where NUMBER26 is available, and you physically replace your card, it will then be considered local in your new country of residence.

- Anyone care to comment? Different to Revolut Card.

JTMan · 04-12-2015 7:21pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I did that once, the outcome was nothing. I have 2 companies that won't debit non Irish accounts and complaining did not bring any results.

Name and shame. Who did you complain to?

Yggr of Asgard · 04-12-2015 7:52pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Do I have a local MasterCard? ....
- Anyone care to comment? Different to Revolut Card.

I think we have to wait until someone get's the physical card and can check the BIN and country code from the chip.

In theory if the card would be coded as Irish than (as long as it still exists) stamp duty would need to be paid if I'm not mistaken.

But it makes sense for them to code the card in a way that "domestic" is the country of residence.

When someone get's the card next week we will find out.

Revolut is coded as UK (at least on the one I got).

Yggr of Asgard · 04-12-2015 7:59pm

JTMan wrote: »

Name and shame. Who did you complain to?

I complained to the EU Customer Center and got told that any business can decided only to accept customers that fulfill certain requirements and having an Irish bank account would could be such requirement.

I will now fire off a mail to the central bank as user1842 suggested and see if that brings something.

Name and shame, well it's GloHealth (and I confirmed again today about it and they say, Irish account only) and Energia (last checked 2 month ago).

I for sure won't swap from GloHealth just because of this as they save me a good chunk of money, but Energia is going out of the window as soon as the contract is over.

Other's were unable to sign me up online for DirectDebit but send out a paper based mandate and all is well. Some companies (like UPC and iDmobile) just took the details online and have no problems.

Guess some companies are just behind the curve.

Delta2113 · 04-12-2015 8:01pm

The €2.50/€5.00 duty is gone and I cant see us getting hit with the 12 cent ATM charge.

I don't think Number 26 should be calling it a Credit Card either.

Delta2113 · 04-12-2015 8:17pm

Anyone actually open an a/c? via app on phone or website? You just need your passport, right?

Yggr of Asgard · 04-12-2015 8:43pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Anyone actually open an a/c? via app on phone or website? You just need your passport, right?

I did this yesterday morning via the webpage, however I have the advantage of having a German ID card so it was very smooth for me. However from what I see it will be the same process with any passport they accept.

I could not do the verification chat via the web, it crashed several times, so I did the verification via the app.

During the video call they will have a conversation with some validation questions and some activities

They ask you to confirm you full name as on the ID document
They ask you to move your ID in front of the camera so that they can see the security features
They will take your picture
They will take a picture of the ID document (in case of German ID both front and back)
They will send you a text to your phone which you need to enter into the chat client

Once you have done all of that and linked your app to your device (create a PIN and transaction PIN) the account can be used.

You can't see your card number online, you have to wait until you get it in the mail.

So I hope to have the card next week to see what the BIN/Chip settings are.

JTMan · 05-12-2015 10:36am

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I complained to the EU Customer Center and got told that any business can decided only to accept customers that fulfill certain requirements and having an Irish bank account would could be such requirement.

I will now fire off a mail to the central bank as user1842 suggested and see if that brings something.

Name and shame, well it's GloHealth (and I confirmed again today about it and they say, Irish account only) and Energia (last checked 2 month ago).

I for sure won't swap from GloHealth just because of this as they save me a good chunk of money, but Energia is going out of the window as soon as the contract is over.

Other's were unable to sign me up online for DirectDebit but send out a paper based mandate and all is well. Some companies (like UPC and iDmobile) just took the details online and have no problems.

Guess some companies are just behind the curve.

Are GloHealth and Energia breaking the law by not accepting non domestic SEPA payments? It seems that they are.

Energia are UK based and non-EUR SEPA zone payments only need to be SEPA format compliant from September 2016. I would guess that Energia will upgrade at that stage. That does not excuse the fact that they should be SEPA compliant for EUR payments now.

More stringent rules on forcing businesses to accept EUR SEPA zone IBANs-only come into play from 1 February 2016, this should also force greater compliance.

Please let us know how your complaint to the Central Bank of Ireland goes regarding Energia and GloHealth. If the CBI ignores the complaint, I suggest you complain to the ECB.

Also, I suggest you ask Energia and GloHealth to put in writing as to why they are not SEPA compliant.

murphaph · 05-12-2015 11:24am

It's happening sooner than I expected but I said it would happen. Only a matter of time until all banks across Europe are forced to offer cross border accounts. Fair play to this company for moving now. Hope they do well out of it. The thieving Irish banks deserve no sympathy whatsoever.

murphaph · 05-12-2015 11:34am

They're offering an overdraft too, something Irish banks are reluctant to do and for which they charge handsomely. My German bank extends me a 10 grand overdraft at no cost. 7.5% apr on it so it's pretty fair if you do need to dip into it.

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 11:55am

murphaph wrote: »

They're offering an overdraft too, something Irish banks are reluctant to do and for which they charge handsomely. My German bank extends me a 10 grand overdraft at no cost. 7.5% apr on it so it's pretty fair if you do need to dip into it.

Overdraft is as far as I can see for German Residents only.

My German Bank (I suspect we have the same) is offering me an overdraft two times my regular salary without any questions, it appeared automatic on my account once I paid my salary in three times.

JTMan · 05-12-2015 12:08pm

murphaph wrote: »

It's happening sooner than I expected but I said it would happen.

Ditto. End game for legacy branch centric current accounts, is app based pan European, and eventually global, offerings with video calling customer service.

Well done to Number 26 for taking brave new steps and including Ireland in their current account role out. This is the first nail in the coffin for old fashioned branch based banking.

Delta2113 · 05-12-2015 12:42pm

Imagine the student just as an example that opens a number 26 account now and uses it for everything and then in 3 years time goes for a mortgage to an Irish bank.

"Can we have a copy of statements from the last 6 months of your current account Sir?"

Don't get me wrong I welcome these neo-bank's but because of the country we live in (I can say this I'm Irish) and how we stick to the past and cant embrace new technology as much as we should you probably should hold on to your free (yes free) Irish current account at least for now.

Frynge · 05-12-2015 12:51pm

I assume it is not possible to lodge cash into this account?

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 1:01pm

Frynge wrote: »

I assume it is not possible to lodge cash into this account?

Not unless you are in Germany.

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 1:04pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Imagine the student just as an example that opens a number 26 account now and uses it for everything and then in 3 years time goes for a mortgage to an Irish bank.

"Can we have a copy of statements from the last 6 months of your current account Sir?"

Don't get me wrong I welcome these neo-bank's but because of the country we live in (I can say this I'm Irish) and how we stick to the past and cant embrace new technology as much as we should you probably should hold on to your free (yes free) Irish current account at least for now.

In 3 years maybe our legal system has caught up and you can get a mortgage from an EU bank too. Well one can dream.

There are benefits to this account and drawbacks (the atm/spending limits for one) but it's a good additional account to avoid foreign spending charges and to have better security.

JTMan · 05-12-2015 1:18pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

In 3 years maybe our legal system has caught up and you can get a mortgage from an EU bank too. Well one can dream.

Barriers to pan European mortgage offerings need to be tackled bit by bit by the EC. The first obvious step is criteria around repossessions. i.e implementing standard criteria.

I assume it is not possible to lodge cash into this account?

As said above, no way to lodge cash, which is just like the KBC current account offering that now has many customers. Cash lodgements are not a must anymore.

Delta2113 · 05-12-2015 2:05pm

The Number26 name refers to the optimal number of quarter turns it takes to solve a Rubik's Cube puzzle and is a play on the most efficient route it can find to reinvent banking.

murphaph · 05-12-2015 3:31pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Overdraft is as far as I can see for German Residents only.

My German Bank (I suspect we have the same) is offering me an overdraft two times my regular salary without any questions, it appeared automatic on my account once I paid my salary in three times.

Ah ok, I just looked at the German version. Interestingly this crowd are based just around the corner from where I work.

I'm with DKB. They gave me a standard overdraft of 1,200 upon opening the account and I requested it myself to increase it up to 10k. They will, according to their website go to three times net salary. I actually never used it until last month (that's why I increased it) when it came in very handy as our building society let us down and didn't transfer a stage payment for our house build in time to pay an invoice. We made use of almost the entire overdraft for a few days-very handy to be able to call on credit like that at reasonable rates to bridge a gap.

I like how the system works here. My Visa card is tied to my current account and there is only credit on the card for a max of 1 month-on the 22nd of every month the entire amount is debited from the current account, pushing it into overdraft if needs be, but the overdraft rate is half the credit card rate of credit card companies that allow you to not pay off the balance in full (rare in Germany, mainly Barclaycard AFAIK).

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 3:41pm

murphaph wrote: »

Ah ok, I just looked at the German version. Interestingly this crowd are based just around the corner from where I work.

I'm with DKB too, it's a really good option as they offer free banking and ATM withdraw worldwide, they even refund ATM charges by the ATM operator. However they charge a foreign transaction fee on the visa/mastercard card they offer.

Generally most German "credit" cards require you to pay them back in full once the bill is issued, it's more like a charge card or a deferred debit card. There are some like Barclaycard / Santander that allow part payment. DKB is also offering that on the Lufthansa card line they issue. But it's rare, in fact most German use their EC Card (direct debit from the bank account). Credit cards as mostly used by frequent travelers and other power users.

The advantage of number26 is that it's all in English and open to any Irish resident. DKB require you to live in Germany or be a German abroad.

Now i'm waiting for my card to see how it's coded because I know from a German co-worker has his has "online pin validation" as first option which causes challenges with irish terminals who don't like that, they than go down to signature which is fun because the card has a chip. I have the same issue with my DKB Visa card, it's coded the same and it's so funny to see the shop assistant being puzzled by the terminal saying signature even when they use the chip.

murphaph · 05-12-2015 3:48pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

Imagine the student just as an example that opens a number 26 account now and uses it for everything and then in 3 years time goes for a mortgage to an Irish bank.

"Can we have a copy of statements from the last 6 months of your current account Sir?"

Don't get me wrong I welcome these neo-bank's but because of the country we live in (I can say this I'm Irish) and how we stick to the past and cant embrace new technology as much as we should you probably should hold on to your free (yes free) Irish current account at least for now.

I presume these online only banks can offer copy statements for mortgage applications. If there's enough demand.

Interestingly enough I didn't have to provide any bank statements when taking out a German mortgage. They were interested in 6 months payslips and that was it really. The property itself is the security here-don't pay your mortgage? ok, we'll take your house back (quickly). And they do. And nobody feels sorry for those repossessed. And we are paying 1.45% APR fixed for 17 years because of it!

murphaph · 05-12-2015 3:53pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I'm with DKB too

Have you tried using your DKB EC card in Ireland? I tried once in Dunnes and it was refused. i never tried again after that, just use credit card as that's no problem in Ireland (unlike here where hardly anywhere takes them still).

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 4:05pm

murphaph wrote: »

Have you tried using your DKB EC card in Ireland? I tried once in Dunnes and it was refused. i never tried again after that, just use credit card as that's no problem in Ireland (unlike here where hardly anywhere takes them still).

I used my EC Card (it's the new one with the v-pay logo) without a problem in Ireland a couple of times but I hardly use it now, mostly my LH card as it gives miles

Delta2113 · 05-12-2015 4:21pm

Why is my MasterCard PIN not working?

When you set the PIN for your NUMBER26 MasterCard, it is stored securely in the MasterCard network as your online PIN. However, in some countries, such as France, Ireland, Greece and Slovakia merchants predominantly use card terminals that rely on an offline PIN. These machines will verify the PIN code against a secure element on your card’s chip, not against the MasterCard network. That is why your PIN code is not accepted at these terminals.

In order for your card to work at these terminals, you first need to synchronize your online PIN to the secure element on your MasterCard chip. You can do this easily by withdrawing money at an ATM with your MasterCard. ATMs will always verify your code online, and they will write your online PIN to the secure element on your chip. Once you have successfully withdrawn money from an ATM, your PIN will be accepted at offline PIN terminals as well.

It is important to keep in mind that each time you change your PIN, it will have to be synchronized again with your MasterCard chip. If you change your PIN yourself, please make sure that you use your card at an ATM in order for the new PIN to work at an offline PIN terminal.

I take it the above explains a lot of problems that some Revolut users are having here in Ireland.

Yggr of Asgard · 05-12-2015 4:26pm

I tried the above on my DKB Visa card and it won't work because the chip on the card is programmed to do online pin first, than signature, offline pin is not coded on the chip so that trick won't work.

Let's see when the number26 card arrives next week what they coded it as and if that trick works (I'm still confused as to the statement that it's coded as Irish card).

And I agree, I think the above is the reason why revolut card has some issues.

Delta2113 · 06-12-2015 1:30am

Took the plunge earlier and opened an account using my smart phone. I registered via website first.

I was waiting more than 8 mins - if you have a plastic cover on your passport take it off. You will have to hold up to camera on phone passport page with your photo and show it and agent will take photo's and you have to show front cover of passport.

The app seems real cool and I like being able to log in to website.

I sent some money via PTSB - it ask's your country and I tried Ireland but you need to select Germany because of the IBAN number.

The card that they will send out is partially transparent - pretty cool.

JTMan · 06-12-2015 11:13am

Please let us know how you get on with direct debits.

I am also thinking about switching from PTSB to Number26. No FX fees, no government levy, condition-free free banking, a good app and no branches to deal with are all big pluses.

Yggr of Asgard · 06-12-2015 11:30am

JTMan wrote: »

Please let us know how you get on with direct debits.

I am also thinking about switching from PTSB to Number26. No FX fees, no government levy, condition-free free banking, a good app and no branches to deal with are all big pluses.

As long as you are aware of the low cash withdraw limits on number26 and you can live with the 600€/day 2000€/week.

That is the only major challenge I see right now.

But if your PTSB account is free, I would keep it.

JTMan · 06-12-2015 11:44am

Thanks. I can live with those limits. My PTSB account will not be fully closed until a long period of being content has occurred with Number26.

Allyall · 06-12-2015 11:49am

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

They ask you to confirm you full name as on the ID document

They ask you to move your ID in front of the camera so that they can see the security features

They will take your picture

They will take a picture of the ID document (in case of German ID both front and back)

They will send you a text to your phone which you need to enter into the chat client

Once you have done all of that and linked your app to your device (create a PIN and transaction PIN) the account can be used.

I never saw that when I signed up, and never linked my phone. I did it just there. They had my number down as:
+3530861234567
So the 4 digit code was never pairing (I wasn't receiving a text\code).
It needs to be:
+353861234567

I think the person who takes the videocall inputs it while you are on the phone.

Yggr of Asgard · 06-12-2015 11:59am

Allyall wrote: »

I never saw that when I signed up, and never linked my phone. I did it just there. They had my number down as:
+3530861234567
So the 4 digit code was never pairing (I wasn't receiving a text\code).
It needs to be:
+353861234567

I think the person who takes the videocall inputs it while you are on the phone.

Actually you enter it when you sign up very early on, if the number was incorrect, how did you get the verification code during the IDNow session?

I was required to enter an sms code while I still was on with IDNow.

Allyall · 06-12-2015 12:09pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Actually you enter it when you sign up very early on, if the number was incorrect, how did you get the verification code during the IDNow session?

I was required to enter an sms code while I still was on with IDNow.

I think the 2nd code is sent after the person on the other end confirms your number.
The girl asked me to confirm my number, i said "0861234567" and she typed it in.
That's probably when I was supposed to receive the pin to pair my phone.

The first time is done by the number you inputted.

Delta2113 · 06-12-2015 12:38pm

JTMan wrote: »

Please let us know how you get on with direct debits.

I am also thinking about switching from PTSB to Number26. No FX fees, no government levy, condition-free free banking, a good app and no branches to deal with are all big pluses.

- If you can operate a FREE PTSB Current A/c I would keep it on - I may consider setting up a direct debit for some future purchase but for now I'll keep my direct debits via PTSB.

- I might switch all my day to day spending i.e ATM and POS to Number 26. Remember you cant get cashback and some shops may not take the Number 26 card but I'm just guessing this might happen.

Nollog · 06-12-2015 2:50pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

As long as you are aware of the low cash withdraw limits on number26 and you can live with the 600€/day 2000€/week.

That is the only major challenge I see right now.

But if your PTSB account is free, I would keep it.

Cash lodgements in the country would be nice too.

Delta2113 · 06-12-2015 3:32pm

Yggr of Asgard · 06-12-2015 4:29pm

That is still the old pre NFC card, let's see how the card looks with NFC but rumor has it's still transparent.

Jayop · 06-12-2015 6:02pm

No Cashback on the card is the only thing stopping me.

Yggr of Asgard · 06-12-2015 6:36pm

But with free ATM transaction which possible also are not charged the new ATM tax is cash back that important?

Delta2113 · 06-12-2015 7:44pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

But with free ATM transaction which possible also are not charged the new ATM tax is cash back that important?

- Cashback - €100 per Debit Card Transaction (max of €300 within a 24 hour period)

- Cashback is not available for Contactless transactions.

Cashback is nice to have but not the end of the world without it.

Jayop · 06-12-2015 8:06pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

But with free ATM transaction which possible also are not charged the new ATM tax is cash back that important?

I pretty much only take out euro by Cashback so if would be a big inconvenience.

JTMan · 06-12-2015 9:06pm

I don't care about cash back.

Anyway, I just took the plunge too and opened an account. The account opening process via video call was very impressive. They took the video call straight away via my Android smartphone.

Interface looks impressive. Card will apparently arrive in 3 days.

Yggr of Asgard · 06-12-2015 9:21pm

I would not take that 3 days as reality, for Germany fine as they send out the card the moment you open the account (even before you define he PIN which is why you need to do the ATM workaround show above) but letters from Germany these days take 4-5 days.

JTMan · 07-12-2015 7:28pm

well it's GloHealth (and I confirmed again today about it and they say, Irish account only) and Energia (last checked 2 month ago).

For what it is worth, it seems that Energia allow your use non Irish direct debit details provided you complete a paper form.

Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

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