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Civil Service question about moving Department

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  • 13-04-2021 7:29pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I have decided that I want to move Department and have applied for mobility. I am wondering whether your current Department can block mobility on "business requirements"? I have read that "where business needs arise or where an applicant has undertaken a significant specialised training or formal education programme, the release date may be delayed where agreement can be reached between the two organisations involved."

    It does not say how long it can be delayed. I suspect for "business needs" that when I am eligible that my current Department may put in a case to keep me. I am trying to get out of said area with the least amount of fuss as I am unhappy in the role for various reasons, however the nature of the job is that whilst replaceable it would be a hassle for them and I suspect that my PO may put in a case regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.

    If they can block it, would it be advisable to alert them that I have applied for mobility and I am seeking a move so that they can account for that in business planning? No drama in professional relationships has happened, but I would not trust my PO either. I don't consider the current role good for my career development or health anymore and have firmly decided I want a move of some sort.


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    #2
    Itchyfeet89
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭Itchyfeet89


    Hi, I feel the same way. I love the department I work in but not the section within the department. I was promoted internally 2 years ago and moved sections. Am now on mobility but I'm told I could be waiting a long time to be called...


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My advice would be to talk to Forsa and get them to help and advise you.

    My understanding is that they can temporarily block and delay it, but would have to eventually let you go.


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    #4
    Skippette
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Skippette


    Apply for mobility now, straight away! Its good to have a light at the end of the tunnel and something positive to look forward to especially when you are not happy where you are.

    Don't say anything to your PO at the moment, I don't know if you are eligible or not, but you could be waiting ages for a move unfortunately. Sequencing of mobility transfers depends on your grade eg CO, EO, HEO/AO, AP or PO

    If you're not in a union, I would advise to join one now as if a problem should occur you will be able to go to them with it and hopefully resolve it quickly. I am in the same position and I cannot stress enough how much I want to move sections/departments, so I know how you feel.

    The person I replaced, was promoted and the section delayed her move for nearly 2 months for business needs before I came as she was excellent in her job (no wonder she got promoted!) but I'd say the day I tell them I have an offer they will hold the door open for me, I'd say they can't wait to see the back of me! lol


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    #5
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks, I have applied for mobility and am close enough to my number. I would be expecting some time this year to be offered a move. My area has held up people on promotions for a long time as it is very busy. I have heard in the past that the Union is not very effective and I do not really want to make a fuss, but I will follow up on that suggestion.


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Short answer is yes, they can block it by refusing to release you to a new department until a suitable replacement is found / offered for you.


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    #7
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,199 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    What grade are you?

    At AP level your current Department is meant to release you within 20 working days. Your current Department cannot block or delay your move, it is up to them to get a replacement for you, a delay in this should not effect you though they may be able to extend your move date out a week or two from the max of 4 that’s there. They will not be able to significantly delay.


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    #8
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    What grade are you?

    At AP level your current Department is meant to release you within 20 working days. Your current Department cannot block or delay your move, it is up to them to get a replacement for you, a delay in this should not effect you though they may be able to extend your move date out a week or two from the max of 4 that’s there. They will not be able to significantly delay.
    On the mobility myself for nearly 2 years has moved a fair bit in that time I'm number 25 I did inform my AO as I'm an EO I'm on the mobility as other EO in section has moved onto HEO panel. I asked AO any replacement but was told until one of us is told we're moving or promoted then that's when replacement would be brought in.


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    #9
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,199 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Some interesting clauses in the EO mobility scheme:


    29. Investment made by the organisation through a formal education programme or significant specialised training may be taken into consideration when determining the timing of a move under the scheme. The offer of Mobility will remain, although the position may be filled through a temporary arrangement until the applicant is released.

    33. An applicant is expected to move within a period of 20 working days from the date of a formal offer.

    34. Organisations are expected to facilitate a Mobility move within a period of 20 working days from the date of a formal offer.


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    #10
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Some interesting clauses in the EO mobility scheme:


    29. Investment made by the organisation through a formal education programme or significant specialised training may be taken into consideration when determining the timing of a move under the scheme. The offer of Mobility will remain, although the position may be filled through a temporary arrangement until the applicant is released.

    33. An applicant is expected to move within a period of 20 working days from the date of a formal offer.

    34. Organisations are expected to facilitate a Mobility move within a period of 20 working days from the date of a formal offer.
    Good to know. So 4 wks most they can delay it then, its good to know as I knew there was something in it they can't block it once your pmds is fine. Different then the internal transfer where that can be stopped etc.


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    #11
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,199 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    RGARDINR wrote: »
    Good to know. So 4 wks most they can delay it then, its good to know as I knew there was something in it they can't block it once your pmds is fine. Different then the internal transfer where that can be stopped etc.

    If they haven’t paid for expert training/education for you then no they can’t block it. I believe they can go beyond the 4 weeks in some cases but that’s only extending it for another week or two. Once your sick leave and PMDS is okay, there’s no way they can prevent it.


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    #12
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    If they haven’t paid for expert training/education for you then no they can’t block it. I believe they can go beyond the 4 weeks in some cases but that’s only extending it for another week or two. Once your sick leave and PMDS is okay, there’s no way they can prevent it.

    No I'm all good so. Thanks for that. So 6 wks the most if they push it. Its good to know. Thank you.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    In theory, maybe.

    In practice, I've seen moves being delayed for 3-4 months for "business needs".

    Never take anything for granted.


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    #14
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In theory, maybe.

    In practice, I've seen moves being delayed for 3-4 months for "business needs".

    Never take anything for granted.

    True its the civil service. Yeah more I could see them delaying my move if and when it eventually happens.


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    #15
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Does anyone know if your in a zone with different depts but was offered in one of them but you end up declining it are you off the other depts in your mobility as well or are they all separate from 1 another? I have 4 requests in some zone but different depts and offered 1 there but location does not suit, if I don't accept it will it remove me from other depts I have down or just that one I don't accept?


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    #16
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    RGARDINR wrote: »
    Does anyone know if your in a zone with different depts but was offered in one of them but you end up declining it are you off the other depts in your mobility as well or are they all separate from 1 another? I have 4 requests in some zone but different depts and offered 1 there but location does not suit, if I don't accept it will it remove me from other depts I have down or just that one I don't accept?

    My reading was that you're off the zonal list of you turn down a department.
    Best to put the others on hold. You will still move up but will be passed over when the time comes until you're available again


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    #17
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    My reading was that you're off the zonal list of you turn down a department.
    Best to put the others on hold. You will still move up but will be passed over when the time comes until you're available again

    Thanks i will have to do that now. I have forwarded the mail about the mobility move onto HR as you have 3 working days in regards to this if you want to inform them or let them know its a satellite location you want which is the case for myself, offer was for another dept just 20 mins walk away from my office in city centre, more I am doing this to get to a dept closer to home in Dublin. Not really a lot of time you wouldn't want to be on a few days off and coming back to the mail and you have gone over the time limit to respond.


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