What to do with an apartment in Dublin that I no longer let

LotharIngum · 18-11-2018 11:31am #1

Has anyone any idea what I can do with an apartment that I no longer let.

I cant really use it as a holiday home because its in Dublin and I live in Dublin anyway. But I do use it as a crash pad when im in the doghouse for drinking ha ha

and sometimes let friends or family stay in it when they come to Dublin.

But that is not making me anything from the property so im trying to figure out some way of making it pay me.

Im not happy with rent controls or the risk of legislation changes or risk of bad tenants so im not letting it until things change. ie never

I dont want to sell it as its a way to move the children out in a few years if they wont move out themselves. And also if I move to my home country I could sell the house here and all the family could use the apartment if they want to visit our many friends we have made in Ireland again.

I was all set to AirBNB it but alas, more government meddling, so i probably wont do that.

Then I was thinking that I go to Malaga a lot, so I was thinking I could swap weeks in it for weeks in Malaga with like minded people who wanted to come to Dublin from there and had apartments there for me. Or maybe they have children who need to live in Dublin for a while.

Just writing that gives me another idea that I'll have to think some more of.

I have a child who just started University in Cork. I wonder if there is an apartment owner in cork who has a child in university in Dublin for next year. I could let their child have my apartment and they give their apartment to my child for the duration of University. That seems like a great idea actually thinking about it. I have another one going to University next year too.
Where would you follow such a thing as this up?

And one other idea I had was to contact companies and ask them if they wanted to do a corporate let in it. Where would you start there though?

Im liking the idea of a university swap though if I could find someone like minded. Maybe i'll set up a website for this and make millions ha ha.
Or maybe someone already has. That would be ideal.

Does anybody have any other strategies for making the apartment pay something to me?

All ideas welcome. And if I find out anything further on the strategies I mentioned above i'll post in case they are of use to somebody too.

One thing at least that I have already put into action is that I have already rented the parking space out separately. So there is income from that even if the property is vacant.

bamayang · 18-11-2018 12:22pm

Did you mean to post this in your daily diary?

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-11-2018 12:39pm

You can AirBnB until June, try Airsorted.

the_syco · 18-11-2018 12:51pm

LotharIngum wrote: »

Has anyone any idea what I can do with an apartment that I no longer let.

Is this an apartment in a complex?

LotharIngum wrote: »

I was all set to AirBNB it but alas, more government meddling, so i probably wont do that.

Do so until June.

LotharIngum wrote: »

Or maybe they have children who need to live in Dublin for a while.

Kids who not only may be out from under their parents for the first time, but also in a foreign country where getting drunk is the done thing; your place may get thrashed. If you do want to rent it to students, only rent it to 2nd years and up.

LotharIngum wrote: »

I have a child who just started University in Cork. I wonder if there is an apartment owner in cork who has a child in university in Dublin for next year. I could let their child have my apartment and they give their apartment to my child for the duration of University. That seems like a great idea actually thinking about it. I have another one going to University next year too.
Where would you follow such a thing as this up?

As above, rent to someone in 2nd year. Linking your childs accommodation to the other childs accommodation would mean that you can't evict their child for anti-social behaviour and destruction of your property, as it would mean the eviction of your child through no fault of their own.

LotharIngum wrote: »

And one other idea I had was to contact companies and ask them if they wanted to do a corporate let in it. Where would you start there though?

If it's a nice place, this would be the way to go, but it'd need to be a very nice setup.

LotharIngum wrote: »

Does anybody have any other strategies for making the apartment pay something to me?

Airsorted, or rent to students that are in their final years of study.

LotharIngum wrote: »

One thing at least that I have already put into action is that I have already rented the parking space out separately. So there is income from that even if the property is vacant.

Leaving this separate is a good idea, as students won't have cars.

loobylou · 20-11-2018 12:12pm

My brother has a place he puts up on <a home swapping website>. It’s been very successful, he recently spent a year traveling throughout Europe without ever having to pay for accommodation.

loobylou · 20-11-2018 1:04pm

Sorry, didn’t think naming the company would be out of order.
PM me if you want the name.

richy · 23-11-2018 4:36am

Hideki99235 · 23-11-2018 5:28am

I'm looking for a place to rent in Dublin currently. I'll take it off your hands ðŸ˜Š

LotharIngum · 24-11-2018 11:57am

loobylou wrote: »

Sorry, didn’t think naming the company would be out of order.
PM me if you want the name.

That sounds ideal.
I would be very interested in something like that.
PM sent.

LotharIngum · 24-11-2018 11:59am

lestercullen wrote: »

I'm looking for a place to rent in Dublin currently. I'll take it off your hands &#55357;&#56842;

Hi Lester,
Id love to rent it, but unfortunately it is just not worth the effort these days for reasons that anyone can see. The law keeps changing every 5 minutes.
I hear the latest is that I would be a criminal if I were to let it at market rent, and god only knows whats next.

I wish you luck, but I am out of the rental market for good at this stage. Its just too risky and the goal posts move every time you wake up in the morning.

LotharIngum · 24-11-2018 12:09pm

I haven't logged in for a while so here is an update on what I found out. I know 1 or 2 people who have PMd me will find it useful and hopefully anyone else in the same situation will.

The university house swap it looks like is quite simple. My daughter put an ad up in the campus and there has been a fair bit of interest from people with children who are students in Dublin looking to swap for accommodation in Cork. So i'll be looking into this further and will post again on it.

I sent off emails to about 10 large companies in Dublin and asked them if they would like to rent my apartment as a company and they put whoever they wanted in it but they were not to be my tenants. My tenant is to be the company not the person the people they put in it. Words to that effect anyway.
I have got 4 replies from companies very interested in renting it, so I will have to meet them and see how that goes.

I really didn't think there would be that much interest as it is in Swords, so not city center. But I suppose its only 40 minutes or so from city center on the Swords express.

I was going to do Airbnb as posters above suggested, but I will hold fire for a week or two to see how the other things pan put.
One of the neighbors I was speaking to has his on Airbnb for about a year now and he says it is excellent, but he is looking for a corporate let too as he doesn't like meeting people every few days. OR else he will get something like airsorted to do that.

I also like the idea of the home swap site in return for accommodation when traveling myself. Ill be looking into this.

When I find out more I will post, and if anyone else has any other ideas please post.

Its early day yet.

Thanks all.

LotharIngum · 01-12-2018 11:24pm

So the other day I agreed to swap accommodation (Mon - Fri) in Dublin for accommodation in Cork from January. Until the end of the school year to start and then possibly next year. I'll do Airbnb at the weekends. That was actually the suggestion of the person that im swapping with as we both have weekends to play with as part of the deal.
It was quite easy in the end. There was quite a lot of interest. I even got a PM here about it. But in the end it was all worked out through the accommodation office in the college after they spotted the advert that my daughter put up.

I did have some interest in corporate type lets but it was too much of a pain of back and forth emails and almost legalese chatter.
I just thought to myself, do I really want that ongoing.

gcdd1995 · 02-12-2018 10:40am

I dont see how this is going to be easier...

TBH some of your previous posts seem like made up stories...

LotharIngum wrote: »

So the other day I agreed to swap accommodation (Mon - Fri) in Dublin for accommodation in Cork from January. Until the end of the school year to start and then possibly next year. I'll do Airbnb at the weekends. That was actually the suggestion of the person that im swapping with as we both have weekends to play with as part of the deal.
It was quite easy in the end. There was quite a lot of interest. I even got a PM here about it. But in the end it was all worked out through the accommodation office in the college after they spotted the advert that my daughter put up.

I did have some interest in corporate type lets but it was too much of a pain of back and forth emails and almost legalese chatter.
I just thought to myself, do I really want that ongoing.

ninebeanrows · 02-12-2018 10:49am

If the OP is over 16 years old i would be shocked.

A Monday to Friday swop and weekend Airbnb . Organising that sounds like a significant undertaking, probably 10 hours work a week.

LotharIngum · 02-12-2018 1:35pm

Here are the two trolls again I see.
Just continuing to sling mud ion the hope of ruining anything that people might consider helpful info.
Can you not just leave people alone to help each other out instead of ruining threads?

Nor for yourselves, but for the benefit of anyone who might find this thread helpful.

Its quite easy as it turns out to do the swap. Im sure you would have options if you did it on how many days etc.

Basically the move out at the weekend bit was suggested by the other party to remove any doubt that its short term.
Airbnb will be managed through airsorted or like. Im still looking there. I wont be doing it myself. I want complete hands off. It will give my daughter some responsibility too. The other side of the deal im sure is similar circumstances. We are meeting to discuss and go through options next weekend as its new to me, but the other person has been doing Airbnb for a couple of years, so hes a bit more experienced than me.

Airbnb serves two purposes here. The first is that its a turnover of guests and the second is that it will be cleaned at every weekend at least once, and maybe make a few euro if there are guests from Airbnb.

Im new to this so not 100% sure if it will work, but definitely better than normal renting for me. Its either that or just leave it empty as it is now. But as ive said before if my experience be it good or bad can help anyone don't hesitate to ask, unless you are one of the two trolls above following me around the internet, but with nothing constructive whatsoever to post. Just snide comments hoping to ruin what might turn out to be useful information to some people when its all worked out.

And thankyou to the other people in the thread who posted me information that helps me, and also to those who PMd me. Please keep it up and don't let those trolls ruin the thread. Its a learning experience and hopefully a healthy one.

Graham · 02-12-2018 1:40pm

Mod Note

LotharIngum; stop the back seat modding.

Everyone; attack the post not the poster.

If you have an issue with a post, report it.

LotharIngum · 06-12-2018 4:55pm

Sorry for annoying you with more questions, but I got another message about another idea that could be a runner.
Just trying to keep my options open and investigate all possibilities until I do have to make a decision.

The person suggested that I could sell the apartment in Dublin and buy one in Cork and my daughter could live in it and rent one of the rooms out under the rent room scheme tax free.

Can anybody tell me if this is allowed even thought she isn't the owner of the apartment?

ongarboy · 06-12-2018 7:13pm

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

You have to be living in the property yourself as principal owner to avail of the tax relief associated with the rent a room scheme so unless you move to Cork yourself, that is not an option. See above link for more information.

As property prices continue to rise, and you are adamant you don't want to be a landlord, then maybe just let it sit idle if you are not financially reliant on an income and then sell before the property market takes a turn. Personally, house swaps or having to perform constant cleaning and meet and greets for airbnb guests is not something I'd do unless I needed the money for paying down the mortgage or if I had other financial struggles.

Fian · 06-12-2018 8:22pm

LotharIngum wrote: »

Sorry for annoying you with more questions, but I got another message about another idea that could be a runner.
Just trying to keep my options open and investigate all possibilities until I do have to make a decision.

The person suggested that I could sell the apartment in Dublin and buy one in Cork and my daughter could live in it and rent one of the rooms out under the rent room scheme tax free.

Can anybody tell me if this is allowed even thought she isn't the owner of the apartment?

You could consider gifting the cork appartment to your daughter, if you expect she would inherit it eventually anyway. Is she an only child?

But tbh seems like a lot of trouble (and fees/taxes) to avail of rent a room relief for a few years while she is in Uni. As an owner occupier she would also be less restricted in respect of the Air bnb restrictions than a non PPR would be. And she could avail of PPR CGT relief if sold on afterwards.

4ensic15 · 06-12-2018 9:52pm

Fian wrote: »

You could consider gifting the cork appartment to your daughter, if you expect she would inherit it eventually anyway. Is she an only child?

But tbh seems like a lot of trouble (and fees/taxes) to avail of rent a room relief for a few years while she is in Uni. As an owner occupier she would also be less restricted in respect of the Air bnb restrictions than a non PPR would be. And she could avail of PPR CGT relief if sold on afterwards.

Selling in Cork and buying in Dublin for a student is ridiculous. Take the transaction costs alone into account. A few thousand for solicitors to start with. Auctioneers commission and other sale costs. The student year is 9 months. a degree in Cork takes 3 years. It is simpler and easier to pay 3 years rent and not bother with service charges and maintenance of an apartment in Cork. The o/p should sell the Dublin apartment and be done with it.

The_Conductor · 07-12-2018 7:44am

Honestly- just sell it. The stress of trying to run it as a going concern will send you to an early grave. Don't go there. You'll get a good price right now- why don't you lock in whatever capital appreciation you have- and sell?

Stoner · 07-12-2018 7:50am

Why not use it as your house swap place. We did that twice. No money exchange, barter. You have their place and they have yours

LotharIngum · 08-12-2018 8:24pm

Stoner wrote: »

Why not use it as your house swap place. We did that twice. No money exchange, barter. You have their place and they have yours

Id love to do that too. Only thing is I wont have much tome to take holidays next year. But the year after that sounds like a great idea.

Just going through all my options at the moment.
Mo mortgage and don't really need the money, but if I can get something out of the apartment it would be ideal.
I love that house swap idea though, but maybe in another year or two.

09-12-2018 1:57pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Selling in Cork and buying in Dublin for a student is ridiculous. Take the transaction costs alone into account. A few thousand for solicitors to start with. Auctioneers commission and other sale costs. The student year is 9 months. a degree in Cork takes 3 years. It is simpler and easier to pay 3 years rent and not bother with service charges and maintenance of an apartment in Cork. The o/p should sell the Dublin apartment and be done with it.

Most degrees are 4 years.

pasquale83 · 09-12-2018 2:14pm

ongarboy wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

You have to be living in the property yourself as principal owner to avail of the tax relief associated with the rent a room scheme so unless you move to Cork yourself, that is not an option. See above link for more information.

Reading the link that you shared looks it is clearly stated that

"For you to qualify for rent-a room relief, your home must be located in the State and you must occupy it as your sole residence during the year of assessment. This means that it is your home for the greater part of the year and is where people would normally expect to make contact with you. In most cases, you do not have to own the property – you could be a tenant and be sub-letting to someone else."

why do you say that only the owner can avail of the relief? am I missing something?

09-12-2018 4:21pm

His daughter can avail of rent a room relief, I’m sure she needs money for college so this could be used rather than the op giving her money for fees etc.

4ensic15 · 09-12-2018 8:51pm

Emory Better Molecule wrote: »

Most degrees are 4 years.

Not primary degree in UCC.

4ensic15 · 09-12-2018 8:53pm

Emory Better Molecule wrote: »

His daughter can avail of rent a room relief, I’m sure she needs money for college so this could be used rather than the op giving her money for fees etc.

The daughter isn't the owner. Any income she might get from a co-resident would
be considered the owner's income.

09-12-2018 9:04pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Not primary degree in UCC.

Yes primary degrees in UCC, all engineering and science degrees are 4 years as are most other degrees.

4ensic15 wrote: »

The daughter isn't the owner. Any income she might get from a co-resident would
be considered the owner's income.

No it wouldn’t, if he allows her stay there rent free and she rents out a room and keeps the money he would have no tax liability, how could he as he isn’t getting any money to tax.

4ensic15 · 09-12-2018 9:26pm

Emory Better Molecule wrote: »

Yes primary degrees in UCC, all engineering and science degrees are 4 years as are most other degrees.
[/QUOTE
The BA is 3 years. His daughter will most likely be doing that course.

Emory Better Molecule wrote: »

No it wouldn’t, if he allows her stay there rent free and she rents out a room and keeps the money he would have no tax liability, how could he as he isn’t getting any money to tax.

This would have a the anti-avoidance section of the Revenue down like a ton of bricks. No way would it work like that.

09-12-2018 9:36pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

This would have a the anti-avoidance section of the Revenue down like a ton of bricks. No way would it work like that.

No they wouldn’t. Are you staying that if I rent an apartment for 1k and sublet a room for an extra 500 that I pocket that the LL would be liable for tax on 1500 not 1k? Of course he wouldn’t and this situation is no different.

The ops daughter could rent out rooms unknown to him even so how could be possibly be taxed on money he isn’t getting and doesn’t even know about.

4ensic15 · 09-12-2018 9:45pm

Emory Better Molecule wrote: »

No they wouldn’t. Are you staying that if I rent an apartment for 1k and sublet a room for an extra 500 that I pocket that the LL would be liable for tax on 1500 not 1k? Of course he wouldn’t and this situation is no different.

The ops daughter could rent out rooms unknown to him even so how could be possibly be taxed on money he isn’t getting and doesn’t even know about.

If you rent for 1k and sublet you have a loss, not a profit.
If, as is being proposed here, An owner gives someone an apartment for free in return for the use of another apartment, then the recipient can avail of the rent a room scheme without payment of tax. The entire would be seen as an artificial transaction. It has already been pointed out on this thread that rent a room relief only applies to an owner.

holliehobbie · 09-12-2018 9:52pm

Are the students going to go home from Cork to Dublin and vice versa every single weekend?

09-12-2018 9:53pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

If you rent for 1k and sublet you have a loss, not a profit.
If, as is being proposed here, An owner gives someone an apartment for free in return for the use of another apartment, then the recipient can avail of the rent a room scheme without payment of tax. The entire would be seen as an artificial transaction. It has already been pointed out on this thread that rent a room relief only applies to an owner.

Rent a room relief most certainly does not only apply to the owner, this is clearly stated in the rules that you do not need to be an owner to avail of the scheme.

holliehobbie wrote: »

Are the students going to go home from Cork to Dublin and vice versa every single weekend?

It’s normal for students to head home at weekends, even lots of people working in cities head back to their home houses at weekends.

holliehobbie · 09-12-2018 10:35pm

My niece is studying in Cork at the minute and she definitely doesn't head home every weekend. Neither I nor my sisters did when we were studying either! Especially if we weren't staying in digs!

Henry Ford III · 09-12-2018 11:10pm

Give it to Margaret Cash rent free?

Graham · 09-12-2018 11:42pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

It has already been pointed out on this thread that rent a room relief only applies to an owner.

The rules state:

"You do not have to own the property to claim relief."

LotharIngum · 10-12-2018 6:36pm

So I had a meeting with the guy in Cork in his apartment.
The discussion brought up some great ideas which I will share when I have more time.
I could potentially have two kids at uni in Cork next year, so it would be a big offset to that cost.
He reckons that the kids could do rent a room. We are both going to check with people in the know on that one.

We knocked the Airbnb thing on the head too. Too many downsides and too much work. I was hoping it would bring the kids back to mammy and daddy at weekends, but that's just wishful.

Graham · 10-12-2018 10:42pm

So to recap;

You're bartering a lease in your property for a lease in another property.
You're gifting the benefits of that lease to your child/children.
You've contrived a scheme that you think/hope might avoid giving long-term tenants tenancy rights. All be it those long-term tenants are children of you and your counterpart.
You've doubled the number of properties you have a risk in (all be it a now shared risk).
You've increased the risk of having a bad 'tenant' by 2/3/4/5/6 additional occupants per academic year. All of whom will be students.
You've made insurance more complicated.
You've made accounting more complicated.
You've introduced an unrelated/unknown 'partner' to all of the above.

I can't help but think you've complicated things slightly.

LotharIngum · 11-12-2018 5:50pm

Graham wrote: »

So to recap;

You're bartering a lease in your property for a lease in another property.
You're gifting the benefits of that lease to your child/children.
You've contrived a scheme that you think/hope might avoid giving long-term tenants tenancy rights. All be it those long-term tenants are children of you and your counterpart.
You've doubled the number of properties you have a risk in (all be it a now shared risk).
You've increased the risk of having a bad 'tenant' by 2/3/4/5/6 additional occupants per academic year. All of whom will be students.
You've made insurance more complicated.
You've made accounting more complicated.
You've introduced an unrelated/unknown 'partner' to all of the above.

I can't help but think you've complicated things slightly.

Not at all.
Im doing all this research in order to reduce the complexity and the risk.
And I quite enjoy the research aspect of things. I find it fun and enlightening.

To be fair, there is nothing that could be more complicated or risky than normal letting these days.

What to do with an apartment in Dublin that I no longer let

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