Time to call out the horse racing industry

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:13am

Sure AP McCoy used to say when he was riding he would sleep 12 hrs a day.

auspicious · 01-04-2020 12:14am

I think if one were on a program such as At The Races or such and advocated controlling a horse by puching it in the head they would be escorted purposefully and rapidly from the premises and told never to darken their doorstep ever again.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:16am

auspicious wrote: »

I think if one were on a program such as At The Races or such and advocated controlling a horse by puching it in the head they would be escorted purposefully and rapidly from the premises and told never to darken their doorstep ever again.

Probably. And rightfully so..its not the right thing to do.

However Davy Russell rode again.

You gotta know i am being honest ...i would never have told that story about my ex if i wasn't.

You totally have the wrong idea about the world of horses. And it is another world ...you kind of have to live there to know about it.

auspicious · 01-04-2020 12:17am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Probably. And rightfully so..its not the right thing to do.

However Davy Russell rode again.

Therein lies the problem.
Money before morals.
Disgraceful.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:19am

auspicious wrote: »

Therein lies the problem.
Money before morals.
Disgraceful.

It was.

I don't think it was money ....i think they just thought he isn't a bad guy he just lost his temper. Shrug. ...maybe it was money I dunno.

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 12:19am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What do you mean have I read the article? I have lived it!

So you were a stable hand in Aiden O'Briens yard? Tell me more :rolleyes:

You've rode a few horses, that doesnt mean you can speak for the whole industry. Lets stick to official reports and court appearances here rather than your limited anecdotes from riding horses for pleasure before going home. Thats a completely different kettle of fish from being in a yard of a top trainer where long days, sh1t slavery wages and 3 euro a week pensions are par for the course.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:20am

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you were a stable hand in Aiden O'Briens yard? Tell me more :rolleyes:

You've rode a few horses, that doesnt mean you can speak for the whole industry. Lets stick to official reports and court appearances here rather than your limited anecdotes from riding horses for pleasure before going home. Thats a completely different kettle of fish from being in a yard of a top trainer where long days, sh1t slavery wages and 3 euro a week pensions are par for the course.

No but i've worked with people who were working for him.

I worked in the industry for 3 years. I did a course in stable management where some of my teachers were ex jockeys and others had worked in the industry.

I 'rode a few horses ' for 16 yrs.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:22am

Honestly you are just making a lot of drama from your posts which are about something you have no real world experience of.

auspicious · 01-04-2020 12:24am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Honestly you are just making a lot of drama from your posts which are about something you have no real world experience of.

Go back and read the links.
They are a real world experience the horses have to endure.
And they ENDURE it in SILENCE!

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:28am

auspicious wrote: »

They are a real world experience the horses have to endure.

PLEASE understand this ...i have worked in a stud farm in france ..where very rich people ...paid to breed foals ...

Go back and read the links.

In other words please go down this rabbit hole where journalists who know nothing about horses write things to get readers.

It would be like an Irish person reading Irish central.

You dont know what you are talking about.

There are idiots in every industry. Its NOT the norm.

Yes some idiots are going to kick horses in the groin and punch them in the head.

I have seen the aftermath of people using barbed wire as a bit and attacking a horse with a hammer ( i volunteered with horses with the DSPCA). They weren't in the racing industry.

There are people in every industry that should not be there.

They are a tiny minority.

I told you what my ex did ..i am not hiding anything ...apart from that i haven't seen anything abusive ever. I have seen stupidity or not paying attention for a few seconds ..

MrMusician18 · 01-04-2020 12:36am

SeanW wrote: »

Blaming the people who went to Cheltenham - beyond a certain point - is ridiculous. They should have skipped it this year, but their failure to do so (while unhelpful) was not decisive, Ireland would have been involved in the Wuhan virus pandemic anyway. As for a wide variety of others failing to comprehend the danger until recently, that's not tin-foil hat nonsense but fact.

So is assuming that horse racing only exists for gambling, as at least one poster above did. It doesn't. Horse racing exists in plenty of places where gambling is frowned on or prohibited.

If horse racing doesnt only exist because of gambling, can you explain why there were no meetings on Good Friday? You know, the day the bookies used to have to close?

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:41am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If horse racing doesnt only exist because of gambling, can you explain why there were no meetings on Good Friday? You know, the day the bookies used to have to close?

Easily

You have it every other day of the year...its over saturated with gambling.

Racing would easily exist without gambling but it would look nothing like it does now.

Its a bit bloated.

Some festivals would continue.

The lower grades would be gone.

It would be like watching a game of polo or showjumping.

In Dubai gambling is illegal but they have horse racing.

auspicious · 01-04-2020 12:53am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You dont know what you are talking about.

There are idiots in every industry. Its NOT the norm.
..

Davy Russell is elite in the sport. Therefore it is evidence this wanton nonchalant cruelty exists in the upper echelons. He had no compunction punching the innocent and unknowing animal in the back of the head, in full view if his peers ( the idiot knows the cameras follow the jockeys down to the first hurdle to show it to the horses ).

You really are a brick wall.
Attack the post but not the poster. You make it very hard.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 12:55am

auspicious wrote: »

Davy Russell is elite in the sport. Therefore it is evidence this wanton nonchalant cruelty exists in the upper echelons. He had no compunction punching the innocent and unknowing animal in the back of the head, in full view if his peers ( the idiot knows the cameras follow the jockeys down to the first hurdle to show it to the horses ).

You really are a brick wall.
Attack the post but not the poster. You make it very hard.

No it doesn't.

These horses are worth millions. They would be shot.

I'm promising you they live like kings.

JohnnyFlash · 01-04-2020 1:05am

Of course racing exists because men want to gamble on which horse passes the line first.

That's the point of it.

Not sure what the issue is here to be honest.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 1:54am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Of course racing exists because men want to gamble on which horse passes the line first.

That's the point of it.

Not sure what the issue is here to be honest.

It exists in Dubai and gambling is illegal.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 8:56am

Muahahaha wrote: »

sorry you've missed the point for the second time, not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse so I'll explain it again. Slaves in America worked dawn to dusk, this is documented in history books. That is nowhere even near the 19 hours a day that some stable hands are doing in Ireland in 2020. Thats all my point is, nothing more, nothing less. So please dont try to put words in my mouth, the comparison is on hours worked per day and nothing else.

As for my supposed "hatred of the horse racing industry". yet another attempt to put words in my mouth. Where did I ever say this? Does criticising a sport mean you must hate it? Theres lots of things I dont like in football and rugby, does saying so mean you hate it? Im fine with horse racing, just not fine with exploitation by multi millionaires and billionaires paying their staff 3 euro a week of a pension. Are you okay with that?

Again shambolicially defending the comparison with slavery (which I didn't put in your mouth, you made that comparision yourself) and trying to back out of it by saying you just meant the hours worked and nothing else. It's ridiculous and disrespectful no matter how you try and spin it.

I presumed you hated the horse racing industry based upon your posts here which are not too flattering, but if I'm wrong then fair enough I'm wrong.

Apparently you're "fine" with it, which is quite vague to he honest. Have you attended race meetings as a spectator? Did you enjoy them? Or do you blank horse racing, as in 'I'm fine with it but I never watch it and know little about it'.

I don't condone €3 an hour (mind you it's more than a slave earned!), I don't think many would, but how many people are on this rate?

I like horse racing (do f all gambling mind you) and I know a few people who worked and are still working in yards. From trainers to hands and nobody I know is working for €3 an hour and if they are then they're buying things for a hell of a lot cheaper than I am!!

Now of course there mightn't necessarily be a killing to make and a lot of people move on from it after a few years but the narrative being pushed by the likes of yourself who shamelessly draws comparisions with american slaves and then claims to be "fine" with horse racing should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

As a matter of interest how many people do you know working in yards and what are there experiences?

The Tetrarch · 01-04-2020 1:34pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I don't condone €3 an hour (mind you it's more than a slave earned!), I don't think many would, but how many people are on this rate?

I worked for four pounds a week for a 37.5 hour week, less than 11p an hour.
Euro 3 an hour would have been massive money.

It was in 1970. I was on a five year training contract (articles) with a firm of chartered accountants.
That is the problem with "statistics". One number given, no context.
Everyone is a hero in their own story.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 1:55pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I worked for four pounds a week for a 37.5 hour week, less than 11p an hour.
Euro 3 an hour would have been massive money.

It was in 1970. I was on a five year training contract (articles) with a firm of chartered accountants.
That is the problem with "statistics". One number given, no context.
Everyone is a hero in their own story.

I agree completely, stats are grand and can be helpful but they also can be used by people with agendas to further their narrative.

Maybe some people are working for €3 an hour as stable hands, particularly when they're getting started, but can the same not be said for many other industries? Doesn't make it right of course but I highly doubt it's exclusive to the racing industry.

I've often worked for pittens myself, I done years on the home farm, where you'd get a few quid here and there but there was no such thing as an hourly or weekly rate!

Also I changed careers a few years ago and started with JobBridge, I done an average 50 hours a week and earned €238. Done that for 9 months before taking up permanent employment in a low wage job before working my up and I'm in a much better position now, best thing I ever done career wise.

I don't want a medal though, those are the things people have to do, that's life, complaining doesn't get people anywhere. You have to work hard (something I've always done) and make good decisions (something I haven't always done but I'm trying my best to do now).

I'm not that old myself (early 30s) but I do think some people of my generation and those younger than me can be a bit snowflakey, they expect things to fall into place for them, which ain't gonna happen!

The Tetrarch · 01-04-2020 2:17pm

Another way to earn Euro 3 an hour is to be paid Euro 500 a week and be available 24/7 or 168 hours a week.
Euro 500/168 = Euro 3, but you could be earning that Euro 3 while you sleep 8 hours a night X 7 nights.

During the foaling season (Feb/March/April) stud staff could be working day and night, but the majority of that is waiting for things to happen.

nelly17 · 01-04-2020 2:32pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any links? Did you tell revenue?

I cant tell if you ar being smart or if its a genuine question, I'll give you the benifit of doubt and assume its a genuine question.

No Links, Just my first hand experience - I spent a dummer working here, now this i a fairly big place with room for 290 Horses all in varius barns sublet to multiple trainers. Stable hands paid cash in hand, jockeys were paid cash in hand for training rides every morning by the trainers, I know its the US but again the industry is not as squeaky clean as some might think.

A trainer over there was getting medicines sent over from a trainer here because they were on the banned list of substances there but not here.

My next door neighbour (in ireland) up until about 2 years ago had a job as a stable hand for a small trainer not to far from here, it was a 7 day a week job cash in hand.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 2:49pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Another way to earn Euro 3 an hour is to be paid Euro 500 a week and be available 24/7 or 168 hours a week.
Euro 500/168 = Euro 3, but you could be earning that Euro 3 while you sleep 8 hours a night X 7 nights.

During the foaling season (Feb/March/April) stud staff could be working day and night, but the majority of that is waiting for things to happen.

Exactly and the same is true on farms during calving season. Stats can be easily manipulated and often poorly understood by those who know little about the industry.

If a horse needs help foaling the last thing any yard wants is someone who stands around with their hands in their pockets wondering 'how much money they should be earning per hour'.

They need somebody who is willing to get stuck in and do the work and who appreciates that not every job falls into the 9-5 category.

Now obviously if they're being taken for a ride by the manager and they know there's no future in it for them, then they should walk away. Nobody is held in chains these days.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 01-04-2020 6:17pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How do you know if you have never tried it?

And wouldn't it be more sensible to think people who spend their entire day around horses and have spent years studying them might know more about horses than you?

And they are not always gentle. In fact if you watch them in the field with each other they can be quite rough in their play. It can be a sign of something being wrong if they aren't.

Horses play with each other every day ..its fast and its often rough. They large with bigger bones and take the damage from a horse kick. Its play fighting for them.

How would YOU feel after being kicked by a horse? Horses get kicked by each other like we play football.

I know plenty about horses.

I was referring to their temperment, not their physical capabilities. The reason it's even possible to saddle a horse, is because they're quite gentle by nature relative to their size and strength. They have been exploited and turned into slaves, because of this natural timidness.

You don't need to be involved with the horse racing or equestrian industry etc, to have knowledge on horses. Many people make this mistake.

Putting a saddle on any animal, and riding around on its back is cruelty... simple as that. Nothing anyone has ever said to me over the years, has ever managed to convince me otherwise... if you did this to any other animal, it would be a very clear act of cruelty. And most would call it out as such... but for some reason it's okay to do it to horses?

Nope, it's not okay!

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 6:37pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Again shambolicially defending the comparison with slavery (which I didn't put in your mouth, you made that comparision yourself) and trying to back out of it by saying you just meant the hours worked and nothing else. It's ridiculous and disrespectful no matter how you try and spin it.

I mean that is literally what I said, here is my direct quote-"Thats all aside from stable hands having to work 19 hour days for 28 days straight, slaves in America didnt work as hard as that"

That the literal quote but out of that you tried to put words in my mouth about slaves being bought and sold. Like I said you're being delibritely obtuse and trying to spin what I said about slaves. If I said anything other than that then kindly show me- but you and I both know you wont be able to because I simply didn't, you're the one trying to spin the point into something it never was.

I presumed you hated the horse racing industry based upon your posts here which are not too flattering, but if I'm wrong then fair enough I'm wrong.

I dont hate it and dont have a problem with it, Ive a passing interest in it but no longer go to races. What I hate is seeing some of the richest people in Ireland pay their staff a 3 euro a week pension after 10 years of long hours of hard graft, thats what Im calling out here, not the entire sport in itself.

I like horse racing (do f all gambling mind you) and I know a few people who worked and are still working in yards. From trainers to hands and nobody I know is working for €3 an hour and if they are then they're buying things for a hell of a lot cheaper than I am!!

And thats fine and everything but nobody is claiming that every single yard is working their stablehands 19 hours a day for 28 days a row on the bounce. But what we do know is that Aidan o'Brien is, when accused of it he admitted it at the Workplace Relations Commision. Now thats a top, top trainer working his staff 19 hours a day so what do you think other top trainers are doing? They're looking at o'Brien thinking 'well if thats what it takes..." and so their staff are working mental hours for a pittance too. The report said that of the 70 yards audited 57% were found to be in breach of employment legislation, and this was despite them being given one months notice of an inspection in the first place. 57% is not a small number, this is not a case of just a few bad eggs.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 6:40pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I know plenty about horses.

I was referring to their temperment, not their physical capabilities. The reason it's even possible to saddle a horse, is because they're quite gentle by nature relative to their size and strength. They have been exploited and turned into slaves, because of this natural timidness.

You don't need to be involved with the horse racing or equestrian industry etc, to have knowledge on horses. Many people make this mistake.

Putting a saddle on any animal, and riding around on its back is cruelty... simple as that. Nothing anyone has ever said to me over the years, has ever managed to convince me otherwise... if you did this to any other animal, it would be a very clear act of cruelty. And most would call it out as such... but for some reason it's okay to do it to horses?

Nope, it's not okay!

What do you know about horses? what experience do you have? Cause if you think all horses are gentle and timid animals, then you don't know a whole pile I'm afraid!!

I have a horse and 2 donkeys just as pets (I take it you won't like that), but I feed them seperately because the horse will kick the head off the donkeys for coming anywhere near her hay/grass.Timid and gentle indeed.

But come here if you're making statements like "Nothing anyone has ever said to me over the years, has ever managed to convince me otherwise" then I'd hazard guess that nothing ever will and I'd be wasting my time even trying.

I just hope you're all in when it comes to animals rights, ie you're vegan, you don't keep animals as pets or agree with zoos etc?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 01-04-2020 7:04pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

But come here if you're making statements like "Nothing anyone has ever said to me over the years, has ever managed to convince me otherwise" then I'd hazard guess that nothing ever will and I'd be wasting my time even trying.

Yes, if you're trying to convince me that saddling up any animal and riding around on it's back all day, is anything other than an act of cruelty... you are very much wasting your time.

It is cruelty, regardless of how well you care for the animal or treat it well otherwise... it's still a cruel act. People have simply been so conditioned to seeing it, that it seems perfectly natural and normal. It may be normalised in society, but it's not natural and it's not very fair on the animal.

And yes, horses are generally regarded as being gentle in temperament compared with other animals of similar size and strength. This doesn't mean they cannot act out or misbehave etc...

Quite often it can be a result of bad owners, who do not know what they're doing... so the horse is frustrated and unhappy.

Do I like horses being kept as pets? Ideally no - but in reality there are huge amounts of horses that need homes, and they cannot realistically be released into the wild... so I'm not 100% against it per se. But I am against their use as a mode of transport by us, with our cruel saddles and stirrups bridle etc.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 7:10pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I mean that is literally what I said, here is my direct quote-"Thats all aside from stable hands having to work 19 hour days for 28 days straight, slaves in America didnt work as hard as that"

That the literal quote but out of that you tried to put words in my mouth about slaves being bought and sold. Like I said you're being delibritely obtuse and trying to spin what I said about slaves. If I said anything other than that then kindly show me- but you and I both know you wont be able to because I simply didn't, you're the one trying to spin the point into something it never was.

Look you made a silly comment comparing stable hands to slaves and for some bizarre reason you're standing by it 100% rather than acknowledging it wasn't smartest thing to say.

That's your call man.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont hate it and dont have a problem with it, Ive a passing interest in it but no longer go to races. What I hate is seeing some of the richest people in Ireland pay their staff a 3 euro a week pension after 10 years of long hours of hard graft, thats what Im calling out here, not the entire sport in itself.

Fair enough my mistake, I presumed you hated it from your comments.

A lot of rich people didn't get rich by being generous, that's the sad reality and some of them are miserble towards their staff. I would have a healthy skepiticism of the stats though, I wouldn't just be inclined to believe every stat I read without proper scrutiny.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And thats fine and everything but nobody is claiming that every single yard is working their stablehands 19 hours a day for 28 days a row on the bounce. But what we do know is that Aidan o'Brien is, when accused of it he admitted it at the Workplace Relations Commision. Now thats a top, top trainer working his staff 19 hours a day so what do you think other top trainers are doing? They're looking at o'Brien thinking 'well if thats what it takes..." and so their staff are working mental hours for a pittance too. The report said that of the 70 yards audited 57% were found to be in breach of employment legislation, and this was despite them being given one months notice of an inspection in the first place. 57% is not a small number, this is not a case of just a few bad eggs.

I know somebody who's worked for Aidan O'Brien for a couple of years, they said he is a hard man to work for, but it can be rewarding for those who stick around and work hard.

But look it's a huge operation down there, he's one of the top trainers in the world with the powerhouse of Coolmore Stud behind him. Now that doesn't give him the right to abuse people obviously but anybody going into that yard to work better be prepared to work hard, he doesn't keep passengers for long.

As for the 57%, again I'd throw skeptical if not curious eye over that stat. What's the breakdown of the 57%, are we talking major things or stuff that can be easily fixed with a bit of initiative?

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 7:24pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yes, if you're trying to convince me that saddling up any animal and riding around on it's back all day, is anything other than an act of cruelty... you are very much wasting your time.

It is cruelty, regardless of how well you care for the animal or treat it well otherwise... it's still a cruel act. People have simply been so conditioned to seeing it, that it seems perfectly natural and normal. It may be normalised in society, but it's not natural and it's not very fair on the animal.

And yes, horses are generally regarded as being gentle in temperament compared with other animals of similar size and strength. This doesn't mean they cannot act out or misbehave etc...

Quite often it can be a result of bad owners, who do not know how what they're doing... so the horse is frustrated and unhappy.

Do I like horses being kept as pets? Ideally no - but in reality there are huge amounts of horses that need homes, and they cannot realistically be released into the wild... so I'm not 100% against it per se. But I am against their use as a mode of transport by us, with our cruel saddles and stirrups bridle etc.

You realise horses have been bred for centuries by people to ride them, we don't just ambush them in the wild with a fish net. These horses are built for this, they've been selected and bred for a very long time.

Again you seem to know a lot about the temperment of horses. How long have you worked with them, or do you own any? Please tell me about your experiences, I'm genuinely curious about them.

Forget about horses, what about pets in general, do you agree with people owning pets? Also I presume you don't eat meat? That would be pretty cruel!!

01-04-2020 7:26pm

Did the stable hands complain of being underpaid? Or did some animal rights person lobby for the case? No one actually worked those hours without a break.

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 7:32pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Look you made a silly comment comparing stable hands to slaves and for some bizarre reason you're standing by it 100% rather than acknowledging it wasn't smartest thing to say.

That's your call man.

I still stand by it 100% because it is literally true- slaves did not work 19 hours a day for 28 days on the bounce. Slaves worked very hard but not that hard, hell many got their Sundays off to attend mass. You dont get a Sunday off working for O'Brien. Are you saying Im wrong or something, if so you're free to try to go ahead and prove it. You wont be able to because the comment I made is 100% factual and correct.

Fair enough my mistake, I presumed you hated it from your comments.

A lot of rich people didn't get rich by being generous, that's the sad reality and some of them are miserble towards their staff. I would have a healthy skepiticism of the stats though, I wouldn't just be inclined to believe every stat I read without proper scrutiny.

On that we agree. Wealthy people always try to take advantage to increase profits. But this is Ireland in 2020, not some Victorian era where large scale exploitation of workers was the norm. Just because its happened in the past does not excuse it in the present.

As for the 57%, again I'd throw skeptical if not curious eye over that stat. What's the breakdown of the 57%, are we talking major things or stuff that can be easily fixed with a bit of initiative?

What would it matter, the law is the law, there is no hierarchy of breaking it. You cant be just a little bit illegal, you either are or you arent. If you went into a court with that argument the judge would laugh you out of it.

Fact of the matter is of 70 yards inspected 57% were found to be in breach of employment legislation. Thats more than 1 in every 2 of yards inspected which tells us that this is not a minor problem, its actually widespread.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 7:48pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I still stand by it 100% because it is literally true- slaves did not work 19 hours a day for 28 days on the bounce. Slaves worked very hard but not that hard, hell many got their Sundays off to attend mass. You dont get a Sunday off working for O'Brien. Are you saying Im wrong or something, if so you're free to try to go ahead and prove it. You wont be able to because the comment I made is 100% factual and correct.

Many slaves also got taken away from their children and had their heads blown off for attempting to escape slavery.

Listen I can see you've fully justified this ridiculous comparsion in own head and you're trying to take comfort in being "factual" but it's beyond embarrassing at this stage.

There's no shame in holding your hand up and acknowledging a mistake but there is in doubling down on it.

Anyway I don't think we're going to make any progress here, so I'll leave you to it, all the best.

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 10:32pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Many slaves also got taken away from their children and had their heads blown off for attempting to escape slavery.

See there you go yet again trying to put words in my mouth. You were called out on it and ask to prove where I brought anything other than the hours worked. You werent able to do that but instead insist on going off trying to spin it into things I literally never said. Maybe the tactic of attempting to put words in another posters mouth has worked for you on here in the past but it certainly wont wash with me, I quoted what I said and yet still you're trying (and failing) to say I said something completely different. What you're trying is completely disingenuous and not approaching the argument in good faith. Throw in your being deliberately obtuse on top and thats the sum of what you've got. Just dont act all shocked when you get called out on putting forth arguments that were literally never made.

There's no shame in holding your hand up and acknowledging a mistake but there is in doubling down on it

Again no mistake made, I stand by what I said 100% because it is true, factual and correct. I challenged you to prove me wrong that slaves didnt work as hard as 19 hours a day for 28 days on the trot, you clearly are not able to do that. My point is correct so I wont be withdrawing it nor acknowledging any mistakes when I havent made any.

I'll give you another chance- prove what I said is wrong. If you can do that I'll hold my hands up. But we both know you cant because we both know I'm right

You just refuse to accept it like a man and instead you invent points that were never even said in the first place to cover up your mistake.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 10:36pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'll give you another chance- prove what I said is wrong. If you can do that I'll hold my hands up. But we both know you cant and we both know I'm right

I worked as a stable hand in a french stud farm that bred horses for the racing industry. I didn't work 19 hrs a day. No where near.

There you go.

dreamers75 · 01-04-2020 10:37pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Biggest betting events
Soccer World Cup: $136 billion was wagered throughout the tournament, including $7.2 billion alone on the final match between France and Croatia.
American football Superbowl $6.8 billion
NCAA March madness (look it up) $8.5 billion
Kentucky Derby 2019 horse racing $250.9 million
Boxing Floyd Mayweather-Conor McGregor fight in 2017 over $100 million
World Series baseball $1.1 billion

I don't have figures for hurling gambling as it is only played in a few counties in a small country.
It looks like soccer is the sport built on a mountain of betting dockets, but let's not do any research.

Thats literally missing the point by a few hundred furlongs.

I make it simples if you banned betting on sports, Horse racing would die instantly, all those other sports would survive.

I find it odd HRI gets a stupid amount of money from the goverment yet other sports employ far more people get **** all.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 10:47pm

I like that there is a username of Tetrarch.

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 10:54pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I worked as a stable hand in a french stud farm that bred horses for the racing industry. I didn't work 19 hrs a day. No where near.

There you go.

lol you're some laugh. The point wasnt directed at you.

Anyway it seems you werent working very hard on that stud, at least not as hard as they do in O'Briens yard where they work 19 hours a day and as was admitted by Aiden O'Brien himself.

So there you go :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 10:56pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

lol you're some laugh. The point wasnt directed at you.

Anyway seems you werent working very hard, at least not as hard as they do in O'Briens yard where they work 19 hours a day and as admitted by O'Brien himself.

So there you go :rolleyes:

That's O'Brien's fault. Kick HIM in the balls.

Leave the rest of us out of it we have done nothing wrong.

Every time you attack a whole industry you attack everyone who has anything to do with it which means you are attacking me.

Its you are saying we should ban music because they make orchestras work for no pay.

Cats and dogs don't want to be your pets you know ...they don't want to be on leashes. They don't like collars.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 10:58pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

See there you go yet again trying to put words in my mouth. You were called out on it and ask to prove where I brought anything other than the hours worked. You werent able to do that but instead insist on going off trying to spin it into things I literally never said. Maybe the tactic of attempting to put words in another posters mouth has worked for you on here in the past but it certainly wont wash with me, I quoted what I said and yet still you're trying (and failing) to say I said something completely different. What you're trying is completely disingenuous and not approaching the argument in good faith. Throw in your being deliberately obtuse on top and thats the sum of what you've got. Just dont act all shocked when you get called out on putting forth arguments that were literally never made.

Again no mistake made, I stand by what I said 100% because it is true, factual and correct. I challenged you to prove me wrong that slaves didnt work as hard as 19 hours a day for 28 days on the trot, you clearly are not able to do that. My point is correct so I wont be withdrawing it nor acknowledging any mistakes when I havent made any.

I'll give you another chance- prove what I said is wrong. If you can do that I'll hold my hands up. But we both know you cant because we both know I'm right You just refuse to accept it like a man and instead you invent points that were never even said in the first place to cover up your mistake.

Never put any words in your mouth, you're trying to use that as a diversion/counter tactic, which won't wash with me. But I did call you for comparing stable hands to american slaves because it's ridiculous and disrespectful no matter how innocent you try to make it sound.

However it's entertaining at this stage reading your long winded attempts to explain yourself and trying to make out I'm shovelling words into your mouth.

Anyway I'm off to bed now, but you keep digging, I can't wait for tomorrow's bumbling essay of a response :-)

bizidea · 01-04-2020 10:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That money comes from a levy on betting, not the general taxpayer.

So, to answer your question, taxpayers are benefitting greatly from horse and greyhound racing.

There’s no evidence that any Irish Cheltenham racegoers brought the virus back with them.

There is a cluster of it not too far from me cheltenham goers

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 11:00pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That's O'Brien's fault. Kick HIM in the balls.

Leave the rest of us out of it we have done nothing wrong.

Every time you attack a whole industry you attack everyone who has anything to do with it which means you are attacking me.

Its you are saying we should ban music because they make orchestras work for no pay.

Cats and dogs don't want to be your pets you know ...they don't want to be on leashes. They don't like collars.

lol you're getting emotional now, maybe lay off the wine a bit in the evenings :P

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 11:02pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

lol you're getting emotional now, maybe lay off the wine a bit in the evenings :P

Whatever.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-04-2020 11:03pm

bizidea wrote: »

There is a cluster of it not too far from me cheltenham goers

One of them at least brought it back. The festival never should have happened.

I just think its an excuse for keyboard warriors of no importance to attack people who are living their dream when they quite obviously are not.

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 11:04pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Never put any words in your mouth, you're trying to use that as a diversion/counter tactic, which won't wash with me. But I did call you for comparing stable hands to american slaves because it's ridiculous and disrespectful no matter how innocent you try to make it sound.

However it's entertaining at this stage reading your long winded attempts to explain yourself and trying to make out I'm shovelling words into your mouth.

Anyway I'm off to bed now, but you keep digging, I can't wait for tomorrow's bumbling essay of a response :-)

So you're not able to prove what I said is untrue, not factual and not correct, despite being asked twice to do so. Spin away but you cant invent things I literally never said.

Okay so, off to bed with you, its pretty clear that you've lost the argument when you cant even muster an attempt to counter it.

Huntergonzo · 01-04-2020 11:07pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you're not able to prove what I said is untrue, not factual and not correct, despite being asked twice to do so. Spin away but you cant invent things I literally never said.

Okay so, off to bed with you, its pretty clear that you've lost the argument when you cant even muster an attempt to counter it.

Nighty night honey buns, chat tomorrow xox ;-)

Muahahaha · 01-04-2020 11:13pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Nighty night honey buns, chat tomorrow xox ;-)

Sleep well sweetpie xxx

bit of a bogey · 01-04-2020 11:34pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats literally missing the point by a few hundred furlongs.

I make it simples if you banned betting on sports, Horse racing would die instantly, all those other sports would survive.

I find it odd HRI gets a stupid amount of money from the goverment yet other sports employ far more people get **** all.

Im sorry but this is just plain ignorance.

Motivator · 02-04-2020 12:05am

J. Marston wrote: »

That word right there boils my piss. The OP had it right in his title. It's an industry, not a sport.

If you take away the gambling aspect from horse-racing it dies, completely, right then and there. Extinct.

If you take gambling away from actual sports like football, hurling, rugby etc they would all survive.

Horse-racing fans like to tell themselves it's a noble sport. It is the furthest thing from noble. It's a grubby past-time built on a mountain of betting dockets.

A grubby past-time that employs over 30,000 people in Ireland and is worth over €1b to the Irish economy.

Good one.

Also, taking gambling away from racing wouldn’t render it extinct. Betting is illegal in the UAE where there’s about 50 race days every year and the industry continues to thrive and expand over there. Perhaps before attempting to talk absolute trash, you might want to get your facts right.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 02-04-2020 4:42am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That's O'Brien's fault. Kick HIM in the balls.

Leave the rest of us out of it we have done nothing wrong.

Every time you attack a whole industry you attack everyone who has anything to do with it which means you are attacking me.

Its you are saying we should ban music because they make orchestras work for no pay.

Cats and dogs don't want to be your pets you know ...they don't want to be on leashes. They don't like collars.

So two wrongs make a right? Is that what you're saying?

Nobody is putting a saddle on their dogs, and riding around on top of them while lashing them with whips! (And if you did, you can be sure someone would report you for animal cruelty! But horses, no problem work away...:rolleyes:)

I'm actually amazed the amount of women and girls, who seem oblivious to this reality...

You kind of expect a certain subsection of men to turn a blind eye to cruelty, particularly where there is money to be made.

But it always shocks and saddens me, how many females like to see themselves as horse/animal lovers... yet are completely oblivious to the inherent cruelty of saddling up a horse and riding around on it's back all day!

Or perhaps it's just selfishness? You enjoy the sport, so choose to ignore this cruelty and convince yourself that it's completely natural and the horse is having a great time with you and your heavy saddle on it's back... and a bridle stuck to it's head with painful bit shoved into it's mouth... yep that's what you do to show how much you love your horse!

ILoveYourVibes · 02-04-2020 4:44am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So two wrongs make a right? Is that what you're saying?

Nobody is putting a saddle on their dogs, and riding around on top of them while lashing them with whips! (And if you did, you can be sure someone would report you for animal cruelty! But horses, no problem work away...:rolleyes:)

I'm actually amazed the amount of women and girls, who seem oblivious to this reality...

You kind of expect a certain subsection of men to turn a blind eye to cruelty, particularly where there is money to be made.

But it always shocks and saddens me, how many females like to see themselves as horse/animal lovers... yet are completely oblivious to the inherent cruelty of saddling up a horse and riding around on it's back all day!

Or perhaps it's just selfishness? You enjoy the sport, so choose to ignore this cruelty and convince yourself that it's completely natural and the horse is having a great time with you and your heavy saddle on it's back... and a bridle stuck to it's head with painful bit shoved into it's mouth... yep that's what you do to show how much you love your horse!

Whatever

I think most people who have odd views online just use them as an escape from their own life....play the hero on the keyboards.

02-04-2020 9:49am

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats literally missing the point by a few hundred furlongs.

I make it simples if you banned betting on sports, Horse racing would die instantly, all those other sports would survive.

I find it odd HRI gets a stupid amount of money from the goverment yet other sports employ far more people get **** all.

The money racing gets from the government comes from a levy on betting and is only a fraction of the billions the racing industry is worth to the economy.

Time to call out the horse racing industry

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