My Boss bringing up in public the sick days I took

raspberrypi67 · 06-12-2018 10:01am #1

Hello,

Just wondering if this would be the right area to ask a question regarding a work issue that made me extreemly angry.

Basically when i was trying to put in for 2 days holidays ( I have over 5 left )
over xmas my boss basically said no way, maybe 1, then brought up the fact that I had 'the most sick days taken' in the company. I was sick TWICE during the year, come in at w-ends and bend over backwards for this company and basically get no thanks.
What could /can i do here???

Thanks
R

cml387 · 06-12-2018 10:05am

There is a Work Problems forum which may be better suited.

What do you want to happen?

Have you taken a lot of sick days?

Peregrinus · 06-12-2018 10:11am

Why was this conversation happening in public?

_Brian · 06-12-2018 2:11pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Hello,

Just wondering if this would be the right area to ask a question regarding a work issue that made me extreemly angry.

Basically when i was trying to put in for 2 days holidays ( I have over 5 left )
over xmas my boss basically said no way, maybe 1, then brought up the fact that I had 'the most sick days taken' in the company. I was sick TWICE during the year, come in at w-ends and bend over backwards for this company and basically get no thanks.
What could /can i do here???

Thanks
R

You can pull your boss aside and say your not happy about having this discussed in public, was it in public ?? Were you applying for holidays in public??
You have the option to make a complaint about the bosses behaviour if you think that is what you want to do..

Nothing of course changes the fact that Annual Leave is at the behest of the employer. See if you can figure if you are being unfairly treated compared to other employees, that might help your case if you want to appeal it..

amdublin · 06-12-2018 2:12pm

What do you mean "in public?" Like at their desk in the office?

OMM 0000 · 06-12-2018 4:59pm

Your boss was being a bit of a dick, but I wouldn't overreact.

Why does he think you took more than two sick days?

Have you gone home early / come in late multiple times due to illness?

Bandana boy · 06-12-2018 5:16pm

How Many days were the two incidents ?

You are very very late booking holidays at Xmas, it is one of the most sought after days for holidays, with less than 4 weeks notice I am not surprised he said no and think he was generous to meet you half way with one .
That said amount of sick days should not have come into it unless he was explaining how they chose who wins when two people look for the same time off .
Using sick days seems fair as long as its is always that measure and people know in advance.

I know in a previous place of work they gave oversubscribed overtime offers based on sick days .

Pelvis · 06-12-2018 5:20pm

Bandana boy wrote: »

How Many days were the two incidents ?

You are very very late booking holidays at Xmas, it is one of the most sought after days for holidays, with less than 4 weeks notice I am not surprised he said no and think he was generous to meet you half way with one .
That said amount of sick days should not have come into it unless he was explaining how they chose who wins when two people look for the same time off .
Using sick days seems fair as long as its is always that measure and people know in advance.

I know in a previous place of work they gave oversubscribed overtime offers based on sick days .

Maybe the OP works in a halloween shop?

BronsonTB · 06-12-2018 5:26pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

come in at w-ends and bend over backwards for this company and basically get no thanks.

You need to stop this, I worked for a company like that & you don't get any more thanks than the person that doesn't do it.

Unless you're getting the benefit of more experience/more pay etc by doing it, otherwise don't be doing extra's like that.

For now put it down to experience.
(In your next job make sure you get more official holidays)

raspberrypi67 · 06-12-2018 9:30pm

I was in the canteen with 2 others when this happened this morning. I've been sick for 2 days this whole year.
It started as I wanted to take 2 days for xmas, he said no....
( I do debug repairs to electronic equipment , by the way...)

He mentioned that I had 13 sick days ,'the highest in the company'.

I said that was ridiculous and that I had certainly less than 4 in my estimate.
I sent a mail later asking him to specify exactly where he got that number...

Later , again in the canteen, in public, he said that it was 9 days sick and 4 days bereavement ( my father died 2 weeks ago and I had taken 4 days off for all of that )
I told him that bereavement was NOT a sick day. Since he mentioned the 9 days I then did a bit of research with my colleague as I used to phone him if I wasen't going to be in due to ill health. He found 2 records of me during the year.
We have the option when taking days to either go with a 'holiday' or we can take an 'unpaid' day. I have on a few occasions
taken days without pay just so I can save my holidays.
It seems he's also including these then as sick days.

I'm rarely late, if I am its due to the M50 chaos that occurs now and again. I sometimes work hours on a saturday, also some evenings.
This though is never taken into account......Its a mad house....

He's completely out of line with some of the comments. Procedures are rarely adhered too...its all about the bottom line....

I should and probably will look for another job but I would like to ask a solicitor on my rights here, and this is just the tip
of the iceberg to be honest...

amcalester · 06-12-2018 9:36pm

Ah here, taking days off without pay is essentially taking a sick day.

Maybe you wouldn’t have to work evenings and weekends if you just went to work on the days you’re expected.

Kristopherus · 06-12-2018 9:42pm

If you do go to a solr, try and suss out one/firm that specialise/have good knowledge in Employment Law.

_Brian · 06-12-2018 11:53pm

Have to be honest there seems to be a pair of ye in it.

He’s terribly unprofessional having these conversations in the canteen, you need to shut that down immediately it starts and say that’s a private matter.

These unpaid days, how much notice did you give work ?? We’re they as planned as holidays were or are you ringing in saying your taking an unpaid day off today ??? It wouldn’t be regular behaviour at all.

bb12 · 07-12-2018 12:11am

he's treating you like that 2 weeks after your father died?
absolute zero respect there. move on. there'll be lots of new jobs on the go in the new year when companies new budgets kick in.

OMM 0000 · 07-12-2018 6:57am

You're going to speak to a solicitor about this?

Come on. Seriously. He's a bit of a dick but what are you hoping to achieve by getting a solicitor involved?

You need to toughen up.

BronsonTB · 07-12-2018 9:39am

Sorry for your loss. Can be a emotional time.
Sounds like your boss needs guidance on when and how to have a formal v informal meeting.
But in any dispute like this, you need to have your own figures to present.
I have attached a simple spread sheet to this post, best advise is to use this & record all your leave in each company holiday calendar.
(And do this for any future employment)
This can then be compared to the boss/payroll companies.
Know your company policies relating to all leave & adhere to it.
Request a formal meeting to discuss any dispute.
If you can't resolve internally only then could you take it externally with full facts.
Hope it helps.

Mrs OBumble · 07-12-2018 9:44am

It is extremely unusual to be allowed leave without pay when you have leave days accrued. Many companies don't allow unpaid leave at all other than for sickness.

The conversations may have happened in the canteen - but was anyone else within earshot? If not, then they weren't in public.

OMM 0000 · 07-12-2018 9:53am

Also, does this boss generally have a casual way of speaking with staff?

I'm super casual with my staff. We tease and talk **** to each other all the time. It's a very relaxed and open work environment.

I'm not saying this means it's OK to say anything in front of anyone, but I'm saying if that's the culture in the office, you're probably going to seriously damage yourself there if you get a solicitor involved because your boss erroneously said you've taken a lot of sick days. Especially, as you say, you've actually taken days off which weren't holidays.

jim o doom · 07-12-2018 10:05am

amcalester wrote: »

Ah here, taking days off without pay is essentially taking a sick day.

Maybe you wouldn’t have to work evenings and weekends if you just went to work on the days you’re expected.

Wrong. An unpaid days leave is an unpaid days leave. Majority of jobs pay sick leave. Is he being paid sick leave? no. So you are 100% wrong.

Sounds like the job aren't exactly accommodating, refusing 2 days leave over xmas, talking about bereavement leave when the OP's father has recently died, a very traumatic experience. Nice to see such understanding responses. Lost any family yourself?

I worked in a large multinational before, which allowed unpaid leave, even at the last minute. Guess what, they never considered it sick leave, nor had any problem with it.

professore · 07-12-2018 10:14am

jim o doom wrote: »

Wrong. An unpaid days leave is an unpaid days leave. Majority of jobs pay sick leave. Is he being paid sick leave? no. So you are 100% wrong.

Sounds like the job aren't exactly accommodating, refusing 2 days leave over xmas, talking about bereavement leave when the OP's father has recently died, a very traumatic experience. Nice to see such understanding responses. Lost any family yourself?

I worked in a large multinational before, which allowed unpaid leave, even at the last minute. Guess what, they never considered it sick leave, nor had any problem with it.

The boss is being a dick by airing this in public but by taking unpaid leave like this the OP is being a dick. Your boss should have nailed you the first time you took this unpaid leave. Did you actually formally register it as unpaid leave?

If the place is a madhouse as OP says taking unpaid leave like that throws it into further chaos. How many paid holidays do you get OP? At least 20?

Unpaid leave without prior agreement is the same as absent without leave. That your multinational employer was flexible with this is very unusual.

amcalester · 07-12-2018 10:31am

jim o doom wrote: »

Wrong. An unpaid days leave is an unpaid days leave. Majority of jobs pay sick leave. Is he being paid sick leave? no. So you are 100% wrong.

Sounds like the job aren't exactly accommodating, refusing 2 days leave over xmas, talking about bereavement leave when the OP's father has recently died, a very traumatic experience. Nice to see such understanding responses. Lost any family yourself?

I worked in a large multinational before, which allowed unpaid leave, even at the last minute. Guess what, they never considered it sick leave, nor had any problem with it.

Taking days off as unpaid leave so as to save annual leave for later in the year is akin to taking a sick day. It's not about whether it's paid or unpaid, its about whether the employee actually turns up for work when expected.

Not only that but the employee is then having to work weekends and evenings to make up for the time taken off, and then expects gratitude for doing this.

Thats all well and good that your previous employer allowed unpaid leave AND had no issues with you taking it, but the OP's employer while allowing it does seem to have issues with it. Or, he doesnt differentiate between unpaid days off, and sick days because the net result to him is the same i.e. the employee is not at work.

NUTLEY BOY · 07-12-2018 1:02pm

If OP belongs to a trade union he may be able to access suitable legal advice at little or no cost for a first consultation.

Much would turn on what is in the terms and conditions of employment.
That should set out exactly the rights and responsibilities of both parties.

I worked for a major financial institution for a few years. We had all of the terms and conditions set out in an official handbook given to every member of staff. It included the exact rules covering sick leave, compassionate leave for bereavement and so on. This left everyone clear as to where they stood. The absence of that precision or the presence of loose understandings leaves open the way for ambiguity.

All of that said the boss here seems to be a tactless dipstick :rolleyes:

Wanderer2010 · 07-12-2018 2:42pm

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Also, does this boss generally have a casual way of speaking with staff?

I'm super casual with my staff. We tease and talk **** to each other all the time. It's a very relaxed and open work environment.

Word of warning about that casual approach. Its good that it works out for you but sooner or later, someone is going to need you to be a boss and not a friend. In my experience its impossible to be both. It only takes one person to take up what you said wrong and maybe file a complaint and before you know it, your pally atmosphere is gone as the people you may have considered mates go cold on you because you couldn't separate work and friendship. Ive seen it happen a few times!

Mrs OBumble · 08-12-2018 11:12pm

jim o doom wrote: »

Majority of jobs pay sick leave.

Nope. Outside the public sector, they don't.

Masala · 08-12-2018 11:24pm

In a lot of companies - if you don't show up- someone else has to be called in to cover. Same for holidays.... someone else has to cover. That person could be someone on their day off. So you want to take holidays over Xmas and some other poor sod has to give up his days to cover. In my company... there is a blanket ban on holidays from 15 Dec to 5 Jan. If I want a day holiday off.... I gotta arrange cover personally.

beauf · 09-12-2018 3:08am

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

... come in at w-ends and bend over backwards for this company and basically get no thanks.
What could /can i do here???....

If there no flexibility in return, then they don't value it. So stop doing all this.

Wanderer2010 · 09-12-2018 3:09am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope. Outside the public sector, they don't.

Wrong. Every private sector job i have worked in had a generous paid sick leave policy.

beauf · 09-12-2018 3:20am

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Wrong. Every private sector job i have worked in had a generous paid sick leave policy.

Same here. But then it depends on the level you are at.

But how do we know if the majority have sick pay or not. Self employed, contract, temp and low paid and seasonal work are all in the private sector.

My Boss bringing up in public the sick days I took

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