Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

Loafing Oaf · 03-10-2018 1:35am

Astonished that united are 1/6 with the bookies to qualify from the group. Genuinely thought that result would put them neck and neck with Valencia.

StringerBell · 03-10-2018 1:45am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Astonished that united are 1/6 with the bookies to qualify from the group. Genuinely thought that result would put them neck and neck with Valencia.

3 points ahead, points on the board count for a lot but I'd say if you think Valencia are a decent bet then fill your boots?

Whats the worst that could happen?

4 points from two games. Don't lose to Valencia in Spain, beat the Young lads at home and you would imagine that will be that. 8 points should be enough for 2nd. Wouldn't be so sure United will be beaten home and away by Juve either tbf but those games would be pretty irrelevant if just considering likelihood of qualifying from the group.

It would be more astonishing if they were neck and neck with the bookies considering they have 3 more points no?

StringerBell · 03-10-2018 1:48am

Not much new to discuss about the match itself, big couple of weeks coming up now in the season though. A must win v Newcastle, then you have Chelsea and of course Juventus with an international break too.

You have to feel if Jose is gonna be gone anytime soon it will be then.

20 Times 20 Times · 03-10-2018 6:52am

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'll ask this again, because I am curious about the correlation, and don't think there is anything new worth discussing from the Valencia match.

When Mourinho arrived at United so did Matic and Pogba, and for a long time his United side had those two playing in midfield. After a time and many lacklustre performances from Pogba, people started to complain that he shouldn't have to play in a midfield two, that he didn't play in a two for Juve, that it stifled his creative flair and that if he was going to play it would be best to be part of a midfield three. Jose stuck with a midfield two for a long time, and the unrest grew.

Eventually, around the middle of the 2nd season, Mourinho finally started to play a midfield three in every game. McTominay, Herrera, Felliani and a few others all regularly started to play along with Matic and Pogba.

Since that time United's performances dropped off a cliff, the second half of last season was poor and this season has been pure scutter.

Am I wrong with the timing here? Is it just coincidence?

Great point and one that I didnt even think about !

Zico ! · 03-10-2018 7:06am

Gary Birtles >Sanchez

Oranage2 · 03-10-2018 7:42am

Rodgers > Mourinho

03-10-2018 8:08am

I want a win on Saturday and I don't care how.
It should be for the travelling fans. The whole club needs a boost amidst all the turmoil at the moment.
Win lose or draw Saturday I don't think make it any difference to the inevitable outcome to this season but at the very least a solid win with some decent individual performances would be welcome.
I think the only positive thing to say about the team at the moment is Luke Shaws general form, as a fan you need something to cling on to for a bit of cheer and at least his form continues to be positive.

03-10-2018 8:13am

Fred The Red wrote: »

I want a win on Saturday and I don't care how.
It should be for the travelling fans. The whole club needs a boost amidst all the turmoil at the moment.

At home against a joint bottom team on 2 points?

I think Man Utd will shade this one.

03-10-2018 8:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

At home against a joint bottom team on 2 points?

I think Man Utd will shade this one.

That's the thing, at the moment how could anyone be confident!

Trigger · 03-10-2018 8:14am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At home against a joint bottom team on 2 points?

I think Man Utd will shade this one.

Rafa teams and Newcastle in general usually raise their game against United.. and they wouldn't need to raise it by much to be a threat

IBrows89 · 03-10-2018 8:18am

astradave wrote: »

Rafa teams and Newcastle in general usually raise their game against United.. and they wouldn't need to raise it by much to be a threat

This is what genuinely worries me. We'll go 1 up and concede in the last ten minutes again.

At home to a bad Newcastle side and 'm worried, that's a sad state of affairs.

03-10-2018 8:33am

https://twitter.com/BrianMcClair13/status/1047213637339926528?s=19

Lord TSC · 03-10-2018 8:37am

Newcastle, Chelsea, Juventus, Everton, Bournemouth, Juventus, City.

I can't imagine any new manager would be much interested in coming in till that run of games is over with tbh.

Mind, I'm preparing myself that we will have an entire season of this, cause Woody doesn't have the ability to make a properly decisive decision for the good of the club.

But at the very least, I'd be shocked if they off him before we get whomped in those games

(specifically the Juve, Chelsea and Coty games).

SlickRic · 03-10-2018 8:38am

last night was the tipping point for a few of my Utd supporting mates, and I'm honestly not sure why.

it changed precisely nothing. you know nothing more as a fan now than you did before.

Liam McPoyle · 03-10-2018 8:42am

SlickRic wrote: »

last night was the tipping point for a few of my Utd supporting mates, and I'm honestly not sure why.

it changed precisely nothing. you know nothing more as a fan now than you did before.

It was Wolves for me. The shyt sandwich of Derby and West Ham then last night's impotent showing merely reinforced it.

03-10-2018 8:43am

SlickRic wrote: »

last night was the tipping point for a few of my Utd supporting mates, and I'm honestly not sure why.

it changed precisely nothing. you know nothing more as a fan now than you did before.

I think for some it was the combination of the lackluster amount of chances created, the consistent under-performers like Sanchez, Pogba, Rashford ect..
Watching Rashford hit 10 corners in a row to the near post must have been draining for anybody there.

The atmosphere in general in OT was the worst I've seen in a long time. This shows the general feeling and mood at the club.

A win no matter how it was got would have at least brightened up peoples evening.

You are right, it changes nothing but as fans a little boost would have been nice. Even if it would be clearly a false dawn.

intellectual dosser · 03-10-2018 8:57am

I don't get the focus on Matic, he's played three and a half games in the league (won two of them). On last nights performances I'd get throwing Pogba and Lukaku out before Mourinho, and lets be clear his position is fairly untenable.

Lukaku in particular was an embarrassment. He can't play football. He can barge through someone and if a ball is put in front of him he can shoot it towards the goal with extremely varying results. Anyone his size can do that. Dispossesed, missing free headers, cant control the ball, and its been a long time since I roared at my TV as I did when he came from off side to take the ball off Valencia. That sort of crap is hardly Mourinho's fault, he's just not up to the level we're expecting.

Drumpot · 03-10-2018 9:08am

SlickRic wrote: »

last night was the tipping point for a few of my Utd supporting mates, and I'm honestly not sure why.

it changed precisely nothing. you know nothing more as a fan now than you did before.

I can’t speak for others but I don’t necessarily see sacking Jose as anything other then a short term solution that will most likely waste another few years as the club fumbles on. I don’t trust Woodward or the owners have a cohesive football plan and sacking our manager is the perfect camouflage for them to slip back into the background.

I was hoping that Jose would be told he has full control and will be able to offload whoever is not on board with him. That clearly hasn’t happened. Then I was hoping that maybe Jose might figure out a way of galvanizing the players somehow, that hasn’t happened.

I have suspected and rio said it last night that it looks like Jose wants the sack at this stage. If that’s the case then I don’t see the benefit of retaining him. I don’t even mind if the club writes off this season to wait for the proper manager at the end of the season but it needs to start doing things right. People presume the club spending money equates to the owers doing what they can for the first team which we see is bullsh*t.

For all the talk of tactics , I don’t care what manager comes in but the character and application of this united squad is nowhere near a champions one. It doesn’t matter what tactics you play if a team puts on the kind of efforts we have seen this season.

On a side note I was thinking about the fact that Jose sold mata to united and how he has learned to work again with the popular player. If I dig a bit deeper I think it’s also a sign of how poor the state of the squad has been that he took over and what needs to be done with it. He could afford to discard Mata (player of season a few times) to increase the quality of that squad. That says a lot and while people may accuse him of making excuses I don’t see any manager walking in and making this squad world beaters without some serious renovations.

So to answer your question, I don’t see Jose capable of turning around the dressingroom without absolute control and support from the owners. I don’t see that happening. I don’t see the team miraculously raise their game as the players know the season and prob Jose is finished.

TitianGerm · 03-10-2018 9:10am

StringerBell wrote: »

3 points ahead, points on the board count for a lot but I'd say if you think Valencia are a decent bet then fill your boots?

Whats the worst that could happen?

4 points from two games. Don't lose to Valencia in Spain, beat the Young lads at home and you would imagine that will be that. 8 points should be enough for 2nd. Wouldn't be so sure United will be beaten home and away by Juve either tbf but those games would be pretty irrelevant if just considering likelihood of qualifying from the group.

It would be more astonishing if they were neck and neck with the bookies considering they have 3 more points no?

I'd guess there's a good chance it could come down to the Valencia game because it's hard to see Juve dropping points or Young Boys picking up any?

Mitch Connor · 03-10-2018 10:11am

You could see the frustration of the players at themselves and their performances, and how the team is doing in general. You could see the lack of confidence and belief.

No speed on or off the ball, very little imagination in the passing. Very little movement, and what movement there was received no pass.

The amount of times the ball went to Bailly, Smalling, Matic, Fellaini and Lukaku and the touch was slow, defensive and then a simple ball played back to the player in the safest position just killed me. Pogba gave the ball away cheaply a number of times, but you could also see him getting really angry at the lack of options in front of him that were trying to make moves or get into space.

The problems are obvious - no pace to our transition into attack, no movement, no risk taking - plus our pressing is pathetic and our tracking of runners terrible, little to no intent of getting in ahead of the attacker or pressuring them.

I don't see it getting fixed though - it is all so obvious that if it was possible for the current lot to sort it out, it would be done.

No one can say for certain that bringing in any other manager will be the solution (and in terms of long term health of the club there is so much more that is needed, imo) but I just can't see how things improve under Jose. A new manager, with a new attitude and style could breath new life into a number of the players. Whatever about the issues around Pogba, for which Pogba is also to blame, are we really supposed to believe that the performance we are seeing from Lukaku, Sanchez, Fred, Matic, Rashford, Martial are the best we could hope for from these players?

ollkiller · 03-10-2018 10:14am

I hope we get trashed by Newcastle. I hope we lose every game we have as it's the only way to get rid of Mourinho. He has obviously lost the dressing room. There is no coming back from that. Just sack him already. Watching United since 1982 and the last few years have been torture.

Backstreet Moyes · 03-10-2018 10:18am

Drumpot wrote: »

I can’t speak for others but I don’t necessarily see sacking Jose as anything other then a short term solution that will most likely waste another few years as the club fumbles on. I don’t trust Woodward or the owners have a cohesive football plan and sacking our manager is the perfect camouflage for them to slip back into the background.

I was hoping that Jose would be told he has full control and will be able to offload whoever is not on board with him. That clearly hasn’t happened. Then I was hoping that maybe Jose might figure out a way of galvanizing the players somehow, that hasn’t happened.

I have suspected and rio said it last night that it looks like Jose wants the sack at this stage. If that’s the case then I don’t see the benefit of retaining him. I don’t even mind if the club writes off this season to wait for the proper manager at the end of the season but it needs to start doing things right. People presume the club spending money equates to the owers doing what they can for the first team which we see is bullsh*t.

For all the talk of tactics , I don’t care what manager comes in but the character and application of this united squad is nowhere near a champions one. It doesn’t matter what tactics you play if a team puts on the kind of efforts we have seen this season.

On a side note I was thinking about the fact that Jose sold mata to united and how he has learned to work again with the popular player. If I dig a bit deeper I think it’s also a sign of how poor the state of the squad has been that he took over and what needs to be done with it. He could afford to discard Mata (player of season a few times) to increase the quality of that squad. That says a lot and while people may accuse him of making excuses I don’t see any manager walking in and making this squad world beaters without some serious renovations.

So to answer your question, I don’t see Jose capable of turning around the dressingroom without absolute control and support from the owners. I don’t see that happening. I don’t see the team miraculously raise their game as the players know the season and prob Jose is finished.

Im a massive Mourinho fan and don't think we will do better but he has to go.

He alienated the players in the summer and they don't want to play for him.

Woodwards decision to let him alienate the squad and keep him on as manager and not back him was inexcusable.

People here knew what was coming how could Woodward not see this.

Once Woodward is in charge of the football side of things it doesn't matter who takes over.

Backstreet Moyes · 03-10-2018 10:20am

ollkiller wrote: »

I hope we get trashed by Newcastle. I hope we lose every game we have as it's the only way to get rid of Mourinho. He has obviously lost the dressing room. There is no coming back from that. Just sack him already. Watching United since 1982 and the last few years have been torture.

Pathetic really is all I can say

LuckyLloyd · 03-10-2018 10:23am

SlickRic wrote: »

last night was the tipping point for a few of my Utd supporting mates, and I'm honestly not sure why.

it changed precisely nothing. you know nothing more as a fan now than you did before.

The performance was incredibly anemic. Valencia are clearly a pretty limited side, yet they often were able to knock the ball about comfortably and move themselves out of tight spots in their half through to a counter attacking position. Utd were superior technically and athletically all over the park, but lacked structure cohesion and purpose. Players might individually press a Valencia player in trouble but find their teammates hadn't spotted the opportunity and joined them, that kind of thing.

And on a more superficial level: it was a dull drab 0 - 0 draw played out in front of a subdued atmosphere with the season hanging in the balance. Not good.

The general tenor from my Utd supporting friends is resignation. They await the end of this increasingly toxic period.

bennyl10 · 03-10-2018 10:28am

ollkiller wrote: »

I hope we get trashed by Newcastle. I hope we lose every game we have as it's the only way to get rid of Mourinho. He has obviously lost the dressing room. There is no coming back from that. Just sack him already. Watching United since 1982 and the last few years have been torture.

Honestly who do you say we bring in?

-Poch won't leave spurs and Leavy will bleed us on compo for him
-Zidane ran form Real at first sign of something going a bit iffy(ie losing ronaldo), why wouldnt he do the same at united?
-Ancelloti has a nice number at Napoli and plays same football so many 'hate' form past few years

I've seen Keane and Giggs being mentioned too, there's not even any bonus to either of them coming in.

Nicky Butt is a realistic option, but he's not big enough and fans will freak if he loses a few games..

I'm not happy with Jose at the moment, something has to change, Pogba has to go sooner rather than later.

I just don't see what good sacking Jose will make in short term.

ollkiller · 03-10-2018 10:30am

Originally Posted by ollkiller
I hope we get trashed by Newcastle. I hope we lose every game we have as it's the only way to get rid of Mourinho. He has obviously lost the dressing room. There is no coming back from that. Just sack him already. Watching United since 1982 and the last few years have been torture.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Pathetic really is all I can say

Which? The fact that United are pathetic or that i want them to lose?

Mitch Connor · 03-10-2018 10:33am

bennyl10 wrote: »

I just don't see what good sacking Jose will make in short term.

What good do you see coming from keeping Jose?

LuckyLloyd · 03-10-2018 10:36am

Drumpot wrote: »

I can’t speak for others but I don’t necessarily see sacking Jose as anything other then a short term solution that will most likely waste another few years as the club fumbles on. I don’t trust Woodward or the owners have a cohesive football plan and sacking our manager is the perfect camouflage for them to slip back into the background.

I was hoping that Jose would be told he has full control and will be able to offload whoever is not on board with him. That clearly hasn’t happened. Then I was hoping that maybe Jose might figure out a way of galvanizing the players somehow, that hasn’t happened.

I have suspected and rio said it last night that it looks like Jose wants the sack at this stage. If that’s the case then I don’t see the benefit of retaining him. I don’t even mind if the club writes off this season to wait for the proper manager at the end of the season but it needs to start doing things right. People presume the club spending money equates to the owers doing what they can for the first team which we see is bullsh*t.

For all the talk of tactics , I don’t care what manager comes in but the character and application of this united squad is nowhere near a champions one. It doesn’t matter what tactics you play if a team puts on the kind of efforts we have seen this season.

On a side note I was thinking about the fact that Jose sold mata to united and how he has learned to work again with the popular player. If I dig a bit deeper I think it’s also a sign of how poor the state of the squad has been that he took over and what needs to be done with it. He could afford to discard Mata (player of season a few times) to increase the quality of that squad. That says a lot and while people may accuse him of making excuses I don’t see any manager walking in and making this squad world beaters without some serious renovations.

So to answer your question, I don’t see Jose capable of turning around the dressingroom without absolute control and support from the owners. I don’t see that happening. I don’t see the team miraculously raise their game as the players know the season and prob Jose is finished.

It's an 81 point / Cup Final squad that lost no key pieces in the summer and actually added a couple of players. And that 81 point squad is currently performing at 54 point pace, was dumped out of the first round of the League Cup by lower league opposition at home and might now need a result in Spain in mid December to progress in the CL. The performance of the players has dropped drastically to start the new season. I can't imagine throwing tantrums to the media about not being able to replace some of them helps galvanize them obviously - but overall he is responsible for motivating and utilising the players available in the most efficient manner possible. He clearly isn't doing that. Them being "Championship" or not is irrelevant really.

ollkiller · 03-10-2018 10:36am

bennyl10 wrote: »

Honestly who do you say we bring in?

-Poch won't leave spurs and Leavy will bleed us on compo for him
-Zidane ran form Real at first sign of something going a bit iffy(ie losing ronaldo), why wouldnt he do the same at united?
-Ancelloti has a nice number at Napoli and plays same football so many 'hate' form past few years

I've seen Keane and Giggs being mentioned too, there's not even any bonus to either of them coming in.

Nicky Butt is a realistic option, but he's not big enough and fans will freak if he loses a few games..

I'm not happy with Jose at the moment, something has to change, Pogba has to go sooner rather than later.

I just don't see what good sacking Jose will make in short term.

Giggs, Butt and Keane are all non runners in my eyes. Who would i get. Zidane as he can obviously massage egos well. I'd like Poch but as you said would be very heard to get him. I'd actually give the Wolves manager a go as they play some great football.

Mourinho's style of football just does not fit the modern game anymore. So i'd say nearly anyone would be better at this stage. Watch all the other top level teams and how they press to get the ball back. We don't ever play a high press. As i said once you've lost the dressing room there is no going back.

LuckyLloyd · 03-10-2018 10:38am

ollkiller wrote: »

I hope we get trashed by Newcastle. I hope we lose every game we have as it's the only way to get rid of Mourinho. He has obviously lost the dressing room. There is no coming back from that. Just sack him already. Watching United since 1982 and the last few years have been torture.

I don't think you'd ever want your team to lose really, but I don't doubt that many Utd fans were dismayed when Mourinho was hired. His methods and media personality are out of kilter with the history and tradition of the club. And I'm not surprised they just want rid.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

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