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Hot composter!?

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  • 11-07-2017 10:48am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭


    I have a considerable size garden, lots of weeds, raised beds, a moderate sized greenhouse and three chickens.. so I have quite a bit of compost material.

    At the moment, I have two compost bins going but they're not decomposing as fast as I'd like (probably thanks to my habit of not shredding things or cutting spent fruit/veg up in small enough pieces) I have so much compost material that I'm thinking of getting a hot composter (this one - https://www.quickcrop.ie/product/hotbin-composters) or perhaps one of these (https://www.quickcrop.ie/product/joraform-little-pig-composter-jk125)

    Neither are cheap but I hope they would be an investement.

    I have only been in this house since Christmas 2016 and the garden and raised beds were hugely overgrown so there's quite a bit to do still.
    I spent a considerable amount on manure and compost from garden shops so I'm hoping that (apart from some farmyard manure maybe) I'd have my own good quality source of compost with a good turnover!
    We also have two wood burners so would be great to be able to compost the ash.

    And even potentially, use some of my neighbours compost material to reduce their waste!

    Would love to hear some honest feedback from either compost bin owners.

    THANKS :)


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Hi.
    No direct experience of those guys but I am caught between getting the bigger version of the joraform or having a go at making my own.
    It's exceptionally expensive for what it is. Finding it hard to get past that bit!


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 Nell B


    I don't have one of these - the links are not active but I'm assuming that they are tumblers - but some feedback I got from a userwhen I was considering one is that it requires a lot of effort and strength to tumble the large ones, which stands to reason when you think of the contents - they directed me to to stop food waste site (composting advice section) and I got great advice from one of their trainers.

    I got an aerator that is easy to use and gets the compost in the bin heating up again - back to aerobic digestion from anaerobic - the agitator cost me €25.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Nell B wrote: »
    I'm assuming that they are tumblers - but some feedback I got from a userwhen I was considering one is that it requires a lot of effort and strength to tumble the large ones, which stands to reason when you think of the contents - they directed me to to stop food waste site (composting advice section) and I got great advice from one of their trainers.

    That sounds like bad design - too much friction in the bearings. The tumblers I've seen are all a bit wrong-headed, being totally enclosed and with no attempt to use proper engineering. You really need air to get into the compost. I can imagine a system made of a couple of bicycle wheels with a narrow weldmesh cylinder in between, with the axles mounted to a simple steel frame. The whole thing would rotate freely on the bearings with the force of one hand.

    If I had any skill in fabrication I'd attempt to make one of these.
    Nell B wrote: »
    I got an aerator that is easy to use and gets the compost in the bin heating up again - back to aerobic digestion from anaerobic - the agitator cost me €25.

    Got any links to that aerator/agitator?

    FWIW the quality of my composting has improved with a bit of effort, by:

    - building the heap on top of a criss-cross of branches to let air in the bottom
    - mixing greens and browns as material is added
    - hosing down occasionally to keep damp (my heap is under trees so doesn't get much rain)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Honestly I wouldn't bother - throw everything onto a designated part of the lawn and mow the feck out of it all and sprinkle it on the beds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 Nell B


    Here is a link to the aerator - http://wastedown.com/sales.php


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Nell B wrote: »
    Here is a link to the aerator - http://wastedown.com/sales.php

    Thanks. Better view of it here:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dolmen-Compost-Mixer-and-Aerator/dp/B0050I2FB4

    71xvSArlZrL._SL1000_.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭raemie10


    Honestly I wouldn't bother - throw everything onto a designated part of the lawn and mow the feck out of it all and sprinkle it on the beds.

    Might be an option come winter but not at the moment :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭raemie10


    Lumen wrote: »
    That sounds like bad design - too much friction in the bearings. The tumblers I've seen are all a bit wrong-headed, being totally enclosed and with no attempt to use proper engineering. You really need air to get into the compost. I can imagine a system made of a couple of bicycle wheels with a narrow weldmesh cylinder in between, with the axles mounted to a simple steel frame. The whole thing would rotate freely on the bearings with the force of one hand.

    If I had any skill in fabrication I'd attempt to make one of these.



    Got any links to that aerator/agitator?

    FWIW the quality of my composting has improved with a bit of effort, by:

    - building the heap on top of a criss-cross of branches to let air in the bottom
    - mixing greens and browns as material is added
    - hosing down occasionally to keep damp (my heap is under trees so doesn't get much rain)


    I don't have that aerator, but I do have a soil claw/rotator thing that I've been using. I've also bought some organic compost accelerant but it's still not decomposing as fast as I would like! (Patience is a virtue... especially in a gardden!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Feck it. Unless something better comes up in the meantime I reckon I'll go for the Joraform.
    It'll be early next year or even into spring though so I won't be in a position to feedback for some time.
    The site is over an acre and I am surrounded by trees and shrubs. With the bin charges going the way they are and the family growing as well as us planting fruit and veg it's about time I started making my own compost and recycling as much garden and food waste as I can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Urine accelerates the breakdown of organic matter.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Urine accelerates the breakdown of organic matter.

    Where would you buy that :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Where would you buy that :pac:

    I'll sell you as much as you need;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Artdeco30


    We bought a Hot Bin (http://www.hotbincomposting.com/) and we love it - have it 9 months to a year I'd say.

    We had to have it shipped over from England (I think they are available here now although the link the first poster put up seems to be blank). It was expensive (I think about 300 euro all told - other half bought it so I can ask him price and seller if anyone wants to know).

    OH researched all the hot composters and decided on Hot Bin on the basis that it requires very little skill to use! It isn't too fussy about being layered etc. We're not huge gardeners but it gets lots of vegetable and fruit peelings and some garden waste, grass cuttings and shredded paper. It seems to work faster the more you keep it full. OH gets childish delight out of testing the temperature.

    We haven't been great at retrieving the compost but it's reducing our bin bills! We haven't put cooked food in it (although it says you can) our of a fear it would attract vermin but we might get more adventurous now with all the bin discussion in the news.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Right, so a few months later than planned I finally pulled the trigger on the Joraform 270.
    Between the weather being exceptional and the damned expense of the thing I hesitated so much, going between coming up with a DIY solution and just abandoning the concept of a hot composter altogether.

    In the end I got tired of not making a decision and just got the damned thing. It's up and running two weeks now and is kicking out heat like the sun.

    Initial assembly goes from easy to awkward as you move through the pieces. Toward the end when piecing together the insulated panels is definitely a two muscular person job.

    I started chucking kitchen scraps and waste paper and card into it exactly two weeks ago today. I think I made the same mistake as a lot of people and didn't put enough paper/card into it. I.E too much green and not enough brown.
    I also chucked in a handful of old compost from the grass pile up the back to help things along.
    As a result there were a lot of flies about for the first ten days, however once I started adding wood pellets as recommended the waste started to break down and the heat began to build.
    It's now fly free as it's too hot for the buggers to live in and has been getting steadily hotter the past four days, with plenty of steam rising even when the ambient temperature is in the mid twenties.

    With the drought still very much in full swing here I am not generating that much garden waste but that will change. The odd few bits from the garden are going in but it's mainly kitchen stuff at the moment.

    So now as the main source of my waste is indoors I have a little kitchen caddy from Joseph Joseph that takes fully compostable bags and has a charcoal filter in the lid. So any kitchen waste goes in there with a handful of pellets and card/paper. No smells in the kitchen and now that the composter is up to speed, no smells there either.
    The caddy gets emptied into the composter every one or two days when I am heading up to that part of the garden.


    To do long term: I tend to generate a fair pile of cardboard waste as I order a lot of stuff online. As part of a push to stop card going to a recycling depot I'd like to have someway to chop this into small pieces and use that in addition to the wood pellets. At the moment I am just tearing pieces off by hand which is tedious of course.


    Still can't get over the price of it though!
    Hope it helps.
    R.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Right so four weeks and a day since I started chucking stuff into the composter.
    I've now filled one side and am starting on the other. In the four weeks I've put at least 70Kg of kitchen, garden, paper and card waste into it.

    My compost thermometer only arrived a couple of days back so I don't have a handle on the highest temperature it's been but this morning it was almost 60C after it's last feed of scraps on that side of the unit.


    IfUgNU4.jpg?3

    So in general some lessons:
    Don't bother throw the compostable plastic bags in as they initially interfere with air permeating the mass before they break down.
    That said they break down quickly enough in that heat.

    Don't over load it with more than 2Kg at a time.

    Any problems with weak heat, bad smells, not breaking down fast enough? The answer is nearly always more browns with the odd splash of water thrown in.

    Anyway, this is what 4 weeks worth of meat, fish, veg, fruit, wood pellets, weeds, grass, paper, card, leaves and anything else I could get my hands on looks like.
    Bear in mind that some of this stuff only went in in last the day or three.

    Y0JvzWXl.jpg

    I'll spend another 4 weeks or so loading the other side of the unit and when that fills I'll stick a barrow under this lot and dig it into the raised beds.

    In general terms the amount of weight that's going into the black bin has dropped right away and the kitchen is a nicer place to be.
    The only spot for our bin happens to be right by the south facing double doors so with little to no food going in to it it's not as nasty as it was.

    Delighted with it so far and I've almost forgotten about the € shock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    You shouldn't be throwing water into it. There's a drought on. You should be pissing in a bucket, and adding that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    seagull wrote: »
    You shouldn't be throwing water into it. There's a drought on. You should be pissing in a bucket, and adding that.

    What I do with the rain water I store is pretty much up to me but thanks for the tip nonetheless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Never take toilet advice from seagulls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    That comment was only half in jest. Urine is actually a good thing to add to compost.

    Any more rude comments, and I'll send the brethren round to visit your car.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Ah I'm aware of taking a slash into a compost heap being good. I think that in this case though more nitrogens is unneeded. It's getting the carbons in is the problem. Hence the splash of water to make all the card and wood pellets more moist. I might try it though when the missus isn't looking.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭jprboy


    Roen wrote: »
    Ah I'm aware of taking a slash into a compost heap being good. I think that in this case though more nitrogens is unneeded. It's getting the carbons in is the problem. Hence the splash of water to make all the card and wood pellets more moist. I might try it though when the missus isn't looking.

    Yes, that would be wise.

    I enjoy a good ol' slash into the compost bin every now and again but that's my big dirty secret.

    Can never tell the OH or kids because that would probably be the end of them eating anything from the garden!

    "Guess what kids, the secret ingredient that makes these spuds so delicious is............" :eek: :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    You can tell them you're not the only one taking the piss.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    So the first load of compost is out two weeks early. I'm filling the other side a bit faster than anticipated so I dumped the old half into the barrow and dug it into the raised bed.

    So a barrow load of compost in 6 or 7 weeks.

    The current half I'm filling hit 66c this morning. I'm waiting to record the elusive 70! No pics as it was too dark.

    So to answer the OP's question I reckon these things are great.
    Someone mentioned them being hard to turn. I've thrown in well over 100kg and it's easy enough. One quick drag to get it going and then it's off.

    Oh and I took a slash into it when I wasn't bothered heading back into the house.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    Winter update:

    I managed to kill off the reaction a while back by chucking way too many dry and wet leaves into it. After a couple of weeks there was no heat. So I stuck a hot water bottle in it for a few hours.
    That was enough to kick things off again and it stayed hot from then on in.

    Once that load was empty I went back to using it as it should be used and despite the cold the heat built up in it naturally over 5 days.


    So we're back to mid 50's inside despite there being a nice layer of frost on the outside.
    So still getting a load of compost every 7 weeks or so in Winter!

    Ojxlxnzl.jpg

    xGhT3Rnl.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 rafferju


    bought one about 10 years ago, the first thing that fell apart was the dividing plate at the top, think that lasted 6 months. the lid has rusted and the pins holding it came out but I pushed them back in. The next thing was the frame after 6 years but I kept on using it just rotated by rolling it. it has now gone past any use as the rotating on the ground destroyed it. It is great for composting. I bought a bag of wood shavings (10euro) a year and added it to it as we added food from a family of 2 adults and 4 kids. this would be 3-4 litres a day. this would take 12 months to fill both sides as when one side completely filled we then used other side and switched over and back without ever emptying. every 12 months its contents went into a compost bin and left that to sit for 6 months as the continuous adding wouldn't allow it to go straight on to ground as the dogs dig ground up to eat compost.
    You wont fill your garden with compost from this but it's great for all household waste, would buy another if it wasn't so expensive cost 500 euro I think at the time so 500/10 is 50 euro a year to replace.
    Roen you seem to be spending way too much time thinking about it just add anything and everyting to it and walk away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    I think too much about everything in fairness.

    The flip side of that is to get the 6-7 week turn over you do have to keep the temp hot. And to do that you can't just sling in any quantity of anything as I've discovered.
    The series of previous posts was outlining that learning curve so it might appear that I am spending too much time thinking. I am pretty much done with the learning part so there's next to no thought about what will and won't work at this stage.


    On the fall apart thing I think they changed a few things over the years. Not sure have they addressed any of the issues you outlined though. Time will tell whether you were unlucky or whether these things are badly designed/constructed.

    Regarding the price issue you are dead right. It's still a sticking point, it's too damn dear. If mine goes I'll be looking to DIY a similar solution. The reason I didn't go DIY this time is that I am stuck for time between work, a young baby and household stuff. You pay for convenience.

    I'm having trouble understanding how you used it though when you say you only emptied it once a year. I throw in 4L of kitchen scraps and card, paper and wood chips every day and a half. That weighs about 2Kg each time.
    If you were adding 3-4 litres a day how much did the thing weigh after a year? Must have been half a tonne at least after it broke down. Was it the 400L version?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 rafferju


    it was the biggest version at the time but I don't think that is 400L, wood shavings is all I mixed in with the scraps and rolled it every now and then, which was about once or twice a week,
    the compost never stops breaking down so by the time one side had filled and I switched and filled the other side the mix went down to a very small quantity. no where near half a tonne. the frame is light and would bend straight away with that sort of weight. my frame fell apart at the welds with rust if I remember correctly.
    Although I might have emptied it twice a year, I just went on whenever it was full.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Turbulent Bill


    Do they work nearly as well if you don't tumble the contents? Was thinking about insulating my standard Dalek-shaped bin, but I don't know if movement or heat is the more important factor in speeding up composting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Roen


    You need to tumble them alright. It's all about getting oxygen in. I add stuff daily-ish so when I chuck it in the composter gets a spin.
    The odd time all of us are away the reaction dies off after a few days or so without tumbling.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,615 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Those Dalek bins are nearly the hardest to make compost in: it is very difficult to aerate the interior.

    Traditional open compost heaps could be readily tossed around with a garden fork or spade, to stop the material getting compressed. You really do need smaller pieces, oxygen, and moisture to get a good reaction going. And worms are fairly inactive in winter, too.

    The hot composters look brilliant - pity they're so dear!


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