Christmas party accusation

rn · 10-12-2018 6:38am

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Terrifying reading.

Can be summed up as:

If someone finds whatever you did offensive, you're ****ed.

So it's still very subjective.

I realised that too after I posted. Remember this is what kicks in as a "last resort", after normal, reasonable interaction between people involved breaks down. There is still huge room for common sense to prevail between reasonable adults in the workplace.

The vast vast majority of minor and major incidents at work are dealt with directly between employees.

Remember the company put procedures in place to discharge their duty of care to victims of perceived incidents to cover the companies liability. If companies don't have fair procedures to all sides, they are liable for compensation for victim if it goes all way to court.

I've been involved in a few formal incidents and never seen one go to actual law.

Pac1Man · 10-12-2018 6:54am

Edit: thought this was After Hours.

rn · 10-12-2018 7:48am

Pac1Man wrote: »

Edit: thought this was After Hours.

Not relevant. It was a work Christmas party.

lisasimpson · 10-12-2018 8:49am

I feel sorry for op. If he was a bully he wouldnt be so worried and upset. If anything the 3rd party is the bully for making him feel so ****. Im barely 5.2 and people take the piss the whole time. I dont get offended.

Nody · 10-12-2018 9:07am

Mod:
We've been actively removing the name of the person originally mentioned in the OP through this thread as a precaution with X or Lil X depending on the use of the name in the post; for those who read the name we ask you not to post it but use X instead.

sbsquarepants · 10-12-2018 9:09am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Those people are dangerous and need to be taught boundaries

Oh dear god yes.

People are far to quick to take offence on their own behalf these days, as if it's a crime against humanity for everyone in the world to not consider your feelings all day every day - and that's bad enough.

Anyone who takes it upon themselves to be offended on someone elses behalf, particularly when that person themselves has taken no offence, is a dangerous gobshíte.

There are no exceptions.

frankythefish · 10-12-2018 9:15am

Sounds like she may be not getting any action and is frustrated and looking for attention herself

wakka12 · 10-12-2018 12:05pm

What Ive learnt from this thread is that at least half of people are zero craic, even though the story was a bit cringe I can guarantee you being called small didnt ruin her day most people have a bit of a thicker skin than that

wakka12 · 10-12-2018 12:07pm

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I think as well that the third party's reaction may have been alcohol-fuelled.

She may not remember the incident or feel embarrassed by her reaction on reflection

As long as your friend doesn't have a problem with what you did (and given the clear harmless nature of it) I can't see HR turning it into an issue - and it is doubtful it will come to that regardless.

Storm. Teacup.

Even if she was drunk you cant go around accusing people of serious things like that for no reason

Here we go · 10-12-2018 12:14pm

Id say it's already been answerd. But even if you did say something different that could be seen as inappropriate. If the person you said it takes it as a joke someone can't make a complaint for something that didn't involve them. And both party's involved are fine with ??

Nelly71 · 10-12-2018 1:00pm

I would report the event to HR, just to cover yourself in case it rears its ugly head in the future. Bring a witnesses if they will go with you, all can be confidential.

skallywag · 10-12-2018 1:54pm

I certainly don't think that this is sexual harassment at all, and the person who made this claim would seem to have a few screws lose.

That said, I myself have moved to a mode recently where I would never touch anyone at all at work, in any way. Not because I have an issue with it, in fact I have no issue at all when someone puts a hand on my shoulder, puts an arm on my back etc. (in fact I like this in certain situations), but I simply do not what to give someone any ammunition which they could use in any way against me.

ArrBee · 10-12-2018 2:19pm

Rennaws wrote: »

I don’t make the rules.

But I’ve worked in a large corporate multinational for 20 years and I’m just saying how it works. Whether we like it or not, work nights out are still considered a work environment and getting drunk can get you in all sorts of trouble.

What if it's a public space?

Like there is a work do at a bar and you decide not to attend....
But happen to be in the same bar paying for your own drink and happen to be socializing with your colleagues as you would.

Do the HR rules still apply then?

sbsquarepants · 10-12-2018 2:55pm

I don't care what the HR department say, work is work, a pub is a pub, unless you work in a pub, the two are separate entities.

If I'm not being paid it's not work and therefore work can keep it's god damned nose out of my antics. So what if other employees happen to be there - that doesn't make it a work environment, being paid makes it a work environment.

If the job wants any input into my behaviour, they may pay for it. If they aint buying, I sure as fúck aint giving!

rn · 10-12-2018 3:37pm

Your workplace have a legal obligation from a H&S and legal point of view to deal with harassment incidents first, when and if they are reported. The preference is always that people involved in an incident and grievance, sort it out themselves.

@sbsquarepants brings up an interesting point. Your employer has 0 power to compel you to take part in an investigation so if you want to tell your employer to f-off you can. But your employer can still make a judgement based on evidence that is given to them by other parties or witnesses.

Because this whole area is governed by legislation incidents can end up in the labour court as it's not just your company policy invented by HR. Of course the court has power to compel you take part. Any efforts of the employer may be taken into consideration by the court.

If you are a work organised event, regardless of whether you are paying personally or work is paying for food, drink and entertainment, your employer has a duty of care and is on the hook under the law. Work is work, but the pub is also work in this case. That's the law.

OMM 0000 · 10-12-2018 4:11pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't care what the HR department say, work is work, a pub is a pub, unless you work in a pub, the two are separate entities.

If I'm not being paid it's not work and therefore work can keep it's god damned nose out of my antics. So what if other employees happen to be there - that doesn't make it a work environment, being paid makes it a work environment.

If the job wants any input into my behaviour, they may pay for it. If they aint buying, I sure as fúck aint giving!

I don't agree with this.

While you are probably technically correct, I think at a work party you should still put on your work face. But I also think the company should have a relaxed attitude to rule breaches (unless serious), as they are in fact getting their staff drunk. And unexpected things happen when people are drunk.

The Bishop Basher · 10-12-2018 4:17pm

ArrBee wrote: »

What if it's a public space?

Like there is a work do at a bar and you decide not to attend....
But happen to be in the same bar paying for your own drink and happen to be socializing with your colleagues as you would.

Do the HR rules still apply then?

As far as I’m aware of it’s not organized by the company then you’re fine from a work perspective..

Like i said earlier, I don’t write the rules and I neither agree nor disagree with them. What would be the point?

20 plus years in a us multinational has taught me to always err on the side of caution when it comes to this stuff..

Patting a smaller person on the head repeatedly and calling them little in front of all their colleagues is miles beyond any line I’d cross but that’s just me..

Each to their own..

antodeco · 10-12-2018 5:00pm

Just to echo this. If it's organised by your employer it is considered an extension of your workplace.

This is why whenever I've arranged something for "work drinks" it is always done as, "some of us are planning on going to X if anybody would like to go along". It removes any obligations from the employer. The moment a tab is put on, it's different however!

sbsquarepants · 10-12-2018 5:01pm

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't agree with this.

While you are probably technically correct, I think at a work party you should still put on your work face. But I also think the company should have a relaxed attitude to rule breaches (unless serious), as they are in fact getting their staff drunk. And unexpected things happen when people are drunk.

Well the caveat being that it's not as if anyone is going to forget, so it is of course going to affect you if you do anything too mental. You do need to be aware of that, but you need to be aware of that anyway. You shouldn't going being a dick or a sex pest whether your boss is watching or not!

TCM · 10-12-2018 5:57pm

Have ye not sorted this out yet?

TomOnBoard · 10-12-2018 7:20pm

TCM wrote: »

Have ye not sorted this out yet?

I think it's heading to the High Court at this stage. The District Court couldn't bottom it out 'coz the Judge is a bit 'tired and emotional' following the partay on Saturday night...

alexmalalex · 10-12-2018 8:59pm

OP, any update on this?

10-12-2018 9:21pm

Op here.

Ive spoken directly to X, she has repeated that she wasnt offended in the slightest so all the keyboard warriors can pipe down. I don't understand why some posters can't get that. To answer a previous question, we are both peers at work so no taking advantage of seniority, as another thing thrown at me.

She gave as good as she got on the night too.....maybe I should be offended?? But I'm not, I know when a joke is a joke and how to take it. You've all concocted an issue that there never was.

You've all missed the point of the thread, it was about being falsely accused of sexual harassment, not the joke between friends. Im still considering whether to take it further, opinions of my colleagues are more in favour of me reporting it

I despair over some of the replies here....agree that some people just want to be offended.

Rigor Mortis · 10-12-2018 9:37pm

368100 wrote: »

Op here.

You've all missed the point of the thread, it was about being falsely accused of sexual harassment, not the joke between friends. Im still considering whether to take it further, opinions of my colleagues are more in favour of me reporting it

I despair over some of the replies here....agree that some people just want to be offended.

I dont know you. I have no axe. But you cant lay out all the facts and tell people they have missed the point of the thread. Some people view your actions differently to how you view them.

I really would advise you not to report this. It may well not end how you would like.

Edward M · 10-12-2018 9:38pm

368100 wrote: »

Op here.

Ive spoken directly to X, she has repeated that she wasnt offended in the slightest so all the keyboard warriors can pipe down. I don't understand why some posters can't get that. To answer a previous question, we are both peers at work so no taking advantage of seniority, as another thing thrown at me.

She gave as good as she got on the night too.....maybe I should be offended?? But I'm not, I know when a joke is a joke and how to take it. You've all concocted an issue that there never was.

You've all missed the point of the thread, it was about being falsely accused of sexual harassment, not the joke between friends. Im still considering whether to take it further, opinions of my colleagues are more in favour of me reporting it

I despair over some of the replies here....agree that some people just want to be offended.

Well alls Well that ends well.
But if you didn't want keyboard warriors on about it why bother posting it?
I know what comes to my mind.

anewme · 10-12-2018 9:44pm

OP asks for advice and then gets narky and calls people keyboard warriors when people don't back him up.

10-12-2018 10:07pm

Edward M wrote: »

Well alls Well that ends well.
But if you didn't want keyboard warriors on about it why bother posting it?
I know what comes to my mind.

It was never about how X reacted....there was never an issue there. I posted looking for advice on the allegation....Ive explained that a few times now.

Nody · 10-12-2018 10:12pm

Mod:
And with that we close this thread; as a reminder W&J is not AH and require a higher standard of posting quality but due to the flow of the thread we've allowed some posts that would normally not be allowed accordingly.

Christmas party accusation

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