Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

bangkok · 21-10-2015 11:00pm

Rooney captain, carrick vice, smalling, de gea

Polo_Mint · 21-10-2015 11:05pm

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I could be wrong. I know Carrick was promoted when Fletcher left so maybe I'm getting mixed up...

Edit: indeed I may be mistaken.

Yep. i double checked

http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/First-Team/Michael-Carrick.aspx

Michael Carrick, Louis van Gaal's current vice-captain, has established himself as one of the most effective midfielders in the Barclays Premier League since his arrival from Tottenham Hotspur in 2006.

The_Kew_Tour · 21-10-2015 11:54pm

Martial £5million " Score a goal in CL" bonus unlocked..

Woodward better have few major sponsors lined up!!

DARK-KNIGHT · 22-10-2015 12:03am

Degea should be our captain

How Soon Is Now · 22-10-2015 12:19am

Seen on Twitter French media saying hazard told Chelsea he wants to leave end the season.

Cheeky bid?

Rayne Wooney · 22-10-2015 12:39am

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Seen on Twitter French media saying hazard told Chelsea he wants to leave end the season.

Cheeky bid?

Would love it but they'd rather him rot in the reserves than sell him to another PL club, Madrid or maybe Bayern if they stump up the cash are my bets

22-10-2015 12:44am

Not happy at all with the first half performance tonight, but a point in Moscow isn't the worst result. With 2 home games left v Moscow and PSV and 1 tough away one to Wolfsburg, qualification to the last 16 is very much still in our own hands.

None of the players tonight played to anywhere near their potential as individuals or a team, a very different mindset to the team that played in Goodison just days ago. I'd like to believe that there's an element of '...but can they do it in Moscow late on a Wednesday night in subzero temperatures?' to it, but there were still problems on display that have been there in the league back home in the kinder climate of England.

One of those is an inability to break through or do anything creative in the final third when the opposition put 11 men behind the ball. We passed it around them at times tonight, great, but what's the point if there is no sign of doing anything dangerous or taking a risk with the ball?

Sir Alex Ferguson's United teams were known for their fair share of snoozefests in away C.L. group games. Hopefully what we saw tonight was just an example of a conservative Van Gaal away European performance, and the players will be allowed to express more freedom in their performance at home against a non bus-parking City next Sunday.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 22-10-2015 6:43am

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Seen on Twitter French media saying hazard told Chelsea he wants to leave end the season.

Cheeky bid?

Bid for a player who throws his toys outta the pram for getting dropped once? No thanks

FutureGuy · 22-10-2015 7:34am

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Seen on Twitter French media saying hazard told Chelsea he wants to leave end the season.

Cheeky bid?

Will probably choose another "project" like PSG.

Liam McPoyle · 22-10-2015 7:48am

Hazard will go to Madrid for a big ball of money.

I don't care though as it weakens Chelsea, we wouldn't have any hope of signing him anyway and with Madrid spending big on him then it means they have less funds for other players we could be in for.

Win win tbh.

22-10-2015 8:43am

He turned us down once, he had his chance!

homerjay2005 · 22-10-2015 9:09am

zorro2566 wrote: »

He turned us down once, he had his chance!

think it was the other way around actually, we turned him down.

Ferguson wouldnt pay the £5million agent fee. had Ferguson paid that, we'd have have him today.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 9:10am

Still think Hazard is overrated and would take any of the other big name wingers ahead of him.

RobertKK · 22-10-2015 9:14am

I think Pogba back in September was right when he said he calls Martial 'Little old man'.

‘I already call him “little old man”. He’s 19 and he’s already very mature for his age.

‘He has great qualities and very big potential. He’s going to bring a lot to the French team and I’m very happy for him.

‘Now he’s changed club and he’s going to get to know the Premier League. He’s going to play with some big players and he’ll make a lot of progress.’

RobertKK · 22-10-2015 9:17am

We don't need Hazard, we can play Martial from the left, get in his French team mate - Griezmann to go up front who would actually want to play for the club. No Hazard needed.

Polo_Mint · 22-10-2015 9:18am

Hazard is an excellent player. He just needs the right team around him to get the best out of him. I dont think with our current team that he would stand out for us. I see him going to Madrid or Barca

Lovely Bloke · 22-10-2015 9:21am

I do enjoy these "don't need a world class player" type posts, they are amusing.

RobertKK · 22-10-2015 9:30am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I do enjoy these "don't need a world class player" type posts, they are amusing.

Very subjective.

Hazard had very similar stats to Bale last season. Bale was deemed to have a poor season compared to the previous season, yet Hazard was being lauded as world class...

RobertKK · 22-10-2015 9:38am

Hazard will very unlikely figure in United's future plans. Bale will continue to, maybe LVG will continue for the third year his pursuit of Muller, we let Neymar's people know we are interested.
I think there are a number of people better than Hazard, everyone can't be world class, when the world class LW is Ronaldo. One could argue Neymar would be the sub.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 9:43am

RobertKK wrote: »

Very subjective.

Hazard had very similar stats to Bale last season. Bale was deemed to have a poor season compared to the previous season, yet Hazard was being lauded as world class...

Hazards numbers are also bloated by penalties.

bangkok · 22-10-2015 9:45am

RobertKK wrote: »

Very subjective.

Hazard had very similar stats to Bale last season. Bale was deemed to have a poor season compared to the previous season, yet Hazard was being lauded as world class...

hazard was class last season and playing in a much harder league than the Spanish league but of the 2, when both on form Bale is much the better player imo

Polo_Mint · 22-10-2015 9:49am

RobertKK wrote: »

Very subjective.

Hazard had very similar stats to Bale last season. Bale was deemed to have a poor season compared to the previous season, yet Hazard was being lauded as world class...

"World Class" is extremely subjective.

Players can seem to be "World Class" depending on the Team assisting them, The league in which they play and so on.

How many players seemed "World Class" then moved club, League, or even some of there Team mates left which took their shine away.

There is such a small pool of WC players who are consistent no matter where they would go, the chances to sign one who delivers is tiny

You have a better chance of buying potential WC players and molding them.

v3ttel · 22-10-2015 10:02am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Always the same with this RTE lot. Go on about how much United have spent, ignore that for years the side stagnated and United were outspent by their rivals. I should just turn the TV off at the whistle :rolleyes:

I watched the BT coverage. I propose a new drinking game based on it.

Every time Hargreaves says "You spend £200 million and <generic moan>", you take a shot of vodka.

Warning: You may die of alcohol poisoning within 10 mins.

ElChe32 · 22-10-2015 10:06am

I'm not sure who is worse Hargreaves or Owen. Owen has the vocabulary range of a toddler and Hargreaves just talks for the sake of talking. BT can do so much better.

RobertKK · 22-10-2015 10:22am

Yeah fed up with 'United spent...'.

Some of the play is poor, some is good, not at the right consistency at the moment, but that will likely come - well we hope it does. It doesn't matter how much was spent and you would think former professionals would know this'.
Third in the league/same points as 2nd place.
Progressing ok in the CL.
Still in the League cup.

You would swear United had spent all this money and were in fact no hopers. We won't win the CL, Sunday will tell us a lot of where we are versus the favourites, and in cup competitions, it is possible.

I wonder if they listened to the earnings report where Ed said United have £80 million set aside for transfers which can be raised if necessary for the right player.
In time due to the revenues of United, Hargreaves and anyone else will have to get new material.

bangkok · 22-10-2015 10:31am

Scholes last night...

After the game, Scholes was very critical of Louis van Gaal's tactics, suggesting they are inhibiting the players.

"You look at the United team, there is no quality, no movement. People are not running."
“Is it the way they are told to play? It’s all safety playing across the pitch. I can’t remember a pass in to Wayne Rooney. There is no movement."
“You’ve got midfield players who can run - Ander Herrera, Jesse Lingaard, Anthony Martial - stick the ball in to Rooney and run, but there’s not one of them even thinking of running.”

Scholes added that he expected a lot more from the team, particularly in the creativity department.

“Before the game you take the point but when you watch Manchester United you expect them to be better."
“You expect them to be more creative. You expect players to run with pace and penetration. There is a lack of creativity. You would think that with (Bastian) Schweinsteiger and (Ander) Herrera the quality should be there.”

bucketybuck · 22-10-2015 10:47am

Scholes could have given that interview at any time in the last 18 months, its basically been the same since Van Gaal arrived.

DrPhilG · 22-10-2015 11:00am

It's a strange situation that we find ourselves in. We are doing relatively well, near the top of the league (could be top if Sunday goes well) and probably going to progress from the group in Europe.

But with LVG saying that he will leave at the end of his contract, would anyone be surprised if he is shown the door next summer?

He has steadied the ship, got back into Europe and has cleared out a massive amount of dead wood.

But we are playing horrible football, sticking square pegs in round holes constantly, stifling creativity, criminally under using the likes of Hererra and despite my praise of his dead-wood removal, Rooney is for some reason untouchable no matter how badly he does.

If the likes of Ancelotti or Guardiola was available next summer, would United really honour LVG's contract and let one of those big dogs slip away?

Cantona's Collars · 22-10-2015 11:02am

Schweinsteiger to sue Chinese toy maker over Bastian Nazi doll.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-uniteds-bastian-schweinsteiger-sues-chinese-toymaker-over-lookalike-nazi-doll-named-a3096501.html

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 11:03am

beno619 wrote: »

Hazards numbers are also bloated by penalties.

Not his chances created and successful dribbles. Hazard was pretty amazing last season, as was Bale.

dr.kenneth noisewater · 22-10-2015 11:05am

DrPhilG wrote: »

It's a strange situation that we find ourselves in. We are doing relatively well, near the top of the league (could be top if Sunday goes well) and probably going to progress from the group in Europe.

But with LVG saying that he will leave at the end of his contract, would anyone be surprised if he is shown the door next summer?

He has steadied the ship, got back into Europe and has cleared out a massive amount of dead wood.

But we are playing horrible football, sticking square pegs in round holes constantly, stifling creativity, criminally under using the likes of Hererra and despite my praise of his dead-wood removal, Rooney is for some reason untouchable no matter how badly he does.

If the likes of Ancelotti or Guardiola was available next summer, would United really honour LVG's contract and let one of those big dogs slip away?

Yeah I think him saying he's going to leave at the end of next season is a bad thing, look what happened when Fergie said it in the early 2000's. Unless Giggs is lined up and all players know it then I think we'll have a bad season with that hanging over us. If Guardiola finishes with Bayern next summer then we have to go all out to get him imo

PhlegmyMoses · 22-10-2015 11:09am

Valencia got the ball off the ground with a cross, picked out a man and got a game saving assist. What is life?

Cantona's Collars · 22-10-2015 11:14am

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Yeah I think him saying he's going to leave at the end of next season is a bad thing, look what happened when Fergie said it in the early 2000's. Unless Giggs is lined up and all players know it then I think we'll have a bad season with that hanging over us. If Guardiola finishes with Bayern next summer then we have to go all out to get him imo

I don't think LVG will allow a bad season to happen even if he's leaving.He's proud of the fact he leaves squads in great shape for incoming managers.

For all the complaints over the type of play,he's made us hard to beat and we are winning games.For those with short memories,look back at the Moyes farce when we played rubbish and were beaten by teams who could barely manage a goal against us let alone a win before.
LVG has mentioned several times about our lack of pace in attack,he bought Martial,Memphis,is giving Lingaard a chance.The one failing is his faith in Rooney.He never makes those darting runs in behind ala Aguero,Suarez etc. and instead is static so the build up play starts and dies with him 90% of the time.

Cantona's Collars · 22-10-2015 11:20am

Jesse Lingard always knew who he wanted to play for.

bucketybuck · 22-10-2015 11:24am

zerks wrote: »

For all the complaints over the type of play,he's made us hard to beat and we are winning games.For those with short memories,look back at the Moyes farce when we played rubbish and were beaten by teams who could barely manage a goal against us let alone a win before.

Except that Moyes and Van Gaals records are actually very similar.

Leroy42 · 22-10-2015 11:24am

zerks wrote: »

The one failing is his faith in Rooney.He never makes those darting runs in behind ala Aguero,Suarez etc. and instead is static so the build up play starts and dies with him 90% of the time.

This 100%. People are now making the arguement that Rooney is being starved of service, but look at him again last night. He is not puling the defence out of shape. He is not making runs. Don't have the stats but I reckon a large % of runs by a CF never come to anything, but they are required as the give the defenders decisions to make. WIth Rooney static most of the time the 2 CD simply stay close to him and the full backs can concentrate on the wingers.

Rooney is contributing nothing. Compare that with Martial. New to the club, new to the league and being asked to play in different positions and still he delivers. Martial created space for himself for the goal.

Kerrydude1981 · 22-10-2015 11:28am

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Valencia got the ball off the ground with a cross, picked out a man and got a game saving assist. What is life?

Id say he was shocked himself

Comic Book Guy · 22-10-2015 11:53am

How badly was Shaw's absence felt last night. Martial was consistently double if not triple marked out on the left in the first half with Rojo never once going past him and in fact consistently being 20 yards behind him. Maybe orders from manager to curb Fernandes breaking?

at least Valencia provided this option on other side and allowed lingard a bit of space.

This thing about Rooney being starved of service is way over blown. Surely the main issue is his almost total lack of movement off the ball. No runs in behind or down the channels to at least try and pull the defence out of shape.

bangkok · 22-10-2015 11:55am

zerks wrote: »

I don't think LVG will allow a bad season to happen even if he's leaving.He's proud of the fact he leaves squads in great shape for incoming managers.

For all the complaints over the type of play,he's made us hard to beat and we are winning games.For those with short memories,look back at the Moyes farce when we played rubbish and were beaten by teams who could barely manage a goal against us let alone a win before.
LVG has mentioned several times about our lack of pace in attack,he bought Martial,Memphis,is giving Lingaard a chance.The one failing is his faith in Rooney.He never makes those darting runs in behind ala Aguero,Suarez etc. and instead is static so the build up play starts and dies with him 90% of the time.

but there's no point having pace in the team when we don't really use it. everything is pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, Luke Shaw is a massive loss to us this year as he was looking like he was our best attacker from deep. Him and Martial could have been devastating down the left hand side

beno619 · 22-10-2015 11:57am

Pro. F wrote: »

Not his chances created and successful dribbles. Hazard was pretty amazing last season, as was Bale.

He was good, but most of the top players in the PL underperformed, he was the best of a bad bunch.

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 11:59am

beno619 wrote: »

He was good, but most of the top players in the PL underperformed, he was the best of a bad bunch.

I'm honestly surprised anybody thinks that's all he was.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:04pm

beno619 wrote: »

He was good, but most of the top players in the PL underperformed, he was the best of a bad bunch.

If he was playing for utd you wouldn't think that.
At least we can dismiss some of your opinion of hazard based on what team he plays for.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 12:05pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised anybody thinks that's all he was.

He was an extremely underwhelming PFA player of the year compared to his predecessors, there were very few "**** me Hazard" moments last season.

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 12:12pm

beno619 wrote: »

He was an extremely underwhelming PFA player of the year compared to his predecessors, there were very few "**** me Hazard" moments last season.

That's not my take on it, but no worries.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:12pm

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

How badly was Shaw's absence felt last night. Martial was consistently double if not triple marked out on the left in the first half with Rojo never once going past him and in fact consistently being 20 yards behind him. Maybe orders from manager to curb Fernandes breaking?

at least Valencia provided this option on other side and allowed lingard a bit of space.

This thing about Rooney being starved of service is way over blown. Surely the main issue is his almost total lack of movement off the ball. No runs in behind or down the channels to at least try and pull the defence out of shape.

Rojo was rightly staying a bit back becuase of him alright. When the ball went to martial, Rooney would come towards him and schwein would move over to recover the pass.

Lingard would then drift into the strikers position.

Rooneys off the ball is grand. He knows the tactics and has a ton of experience so knows where people should be and keeps the shape of the forwards. He is playing a kinda false 9 drifting back to get a pass and play it out wide and he goes back to striker or drifts wide allowing the wingers to move inside.
It's that false 9 that's killing him.

But he will be dropped for 3/4 games like Memphis and Fellaini will play up front.
Fellaini is better at taking the ball and dragging players out allowing mata or martial to move inside.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 12:14pm

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

If he was playing for utd you wouldn't think that.
At least we can dismiss some of your opinion of hazard based on what team he plays for.

Very true, I think he's a bit of a **** in general so its a tainted opinion.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:18pm

beno619 wrote: »

Very true, I think he's a bit of a **** in general so its a tainted opinion.

Most certainly not obvious anyway.

Why though? Becuase he kicked a ball boy who was acting the gowl?
Or because he choose Chelsea over utd?

TheDoc · 22-10-2015 12:56pm

I somewhat agree with Beno here. I found the superlatives for Hazard last year to be a bit over the top. He had an excellent season of which there is no doubt. But I felt it was magnified by Chelsea retreating into their shell second half of the season, and with him as the only creative spark for months, it further exaggerated his impact.

But the impact he had there was no doubt. He was by far the best player last season, but that needs to be put in context. As Beno rightly points out, the top 4 in general were extremely poor in mounting title challenges and he just walked it. I didn't find much differences between Sanchez and Hazard for example, but obviously one winning the title, in cruise fashion, seemed to enhance his reputation further.

Hazard was being compared last year to up there with Ronaldo and Messi, and one of the best players in the world. I think that was totally out of proportion. He was the main driving force of creativity in a title winning side. A side that crashed out of the CL to PSG in relatively spectacular fashion. As pointed out above, Bale provided the same return for Madrid yet was largely castrated for having a poor season(he didn't btw). Memphis was an absolute monster for PSV last season, probably (I havn't checked the figures) providing more direct input for PSv then Hazard did for Chelsea, but people weren't losing the run of themselves with him labelling him up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

It's all a bit of perspective, but seeing Hazard this season, hearing how his manager talk about him, very much just compounds my view the reactions and superlatives provided to him last season were excessive and unrepresenting of the league as a whole, and where the player currently sits in terms of stature.

A quality player of which there is no doubt, currently in a bit of a rough patch. But I feel he has a ways to go before being labelled "world class" or anything of the sort. But then thats just my take, and my views on what constitutes world class might differ to others.

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 1:31pm

TheDoc wrote: »

I somewhat agree with Beno here. I found the superlatives for Hazard last year to be a bit over the top. He had an excellent season of which there is no doubt. But I felt it was magnified by Chelsea retreating into their shell second half of the season, and with him as the only creative spark for months, it further exaggerated his impact.

But the impact he had there was no doubt. He was by far the best player last season, but that needs to be put in context. As Beno rightly points out, the top 4 in general were extremely poor in mounting title challenges and he just walked it. I didn't find much differences between Sanchez and Hazard for example, but obviously one winning the title, in cruise fashion, seemed to enhance his reputation further.

Hazard was being compared last year to up there with Ronaldo and Messi, and one of the best players in the world. I think that was totally out of proportion. He was the main driving force of creativity in a title winning side. A side that crashed out of the CL to PSG in relatively spectacular fashion. As pointed out above, Bale provided the same return for Madrid yet was largely castrated for having a poor season(he didn't btw). Memphis was an absolute monster for PSV last season, probably (I havn't checked the figures) providing more direct input for PSv then Hazard did for Chelsea, but people weren't losing the run of themselves with him labelling him up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

It's all a bit of perspective, but seeing Hazard this season, hearing how his manager talk about him, very much just compounds my view the reactions and superlatives provided to him last season were excessive and unrepresenting of the league as a whole, and where the player currently sits in terms of stature.

A quality player of which there is no doubt, currently in a bit of a rough patch. But I feel he has a ways to go before being labelled "world class" or anything of the sort. But then thats just my take, and my views on what constitutes world class might differ to others.

Who was labelling Hazard as up there with Messi and Ronaldo? I'm pretty sure the almost universally accepted state of affairs is that there's Messi and Ronaldo and then there is everybody else.

Nobody was getting too carried away about Memphis because the defending in the Eridivisie is an absolute joke.

Sanchez was pretty phenomenal himself, he would have been a worthy winner of the POTY, but I don't get how Hazard winning it is supposed to be remarkable in a negative way. Who in the world of football, other than Messi and Ronaldo, do you think was so far ahead of Hazard?

bangkok · 22-10-2015 2:18pm

the best players in the world play in spain. There is no doubt about this. Pundits in the league know this but try and big up players like Hazard as being up there with Messi and Ronaldo, he isn't, but he is still a class player.

Most would agree I imagine that the top 5 players in the world all play in spain

Ronaldo
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Bale

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

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