State exams Nov 2020

km79 · 25-09-2020 8:32pm #1

https://examinations.ie/misc-doc/EN-EX-59182910.pdf

Running for a full month at night and weekends in the dead of winter
So many questions
1. Where will they take place ? I was assuming local education centres but it seems it may be schools even if there are only one or two in each local school
2. Who is expected to open and close ?
3. Who will supervise ?
4. Who will correct ?

I think the whole plan is based on hoping the uptake is very very low

rainbowtrout · 25-09-2020 9:34pm

Interesting. A heavy first weekend for anyone doing the whole lot. A heavy week for anyone with any of the popular subjects as they have been front loaded.

I'd imagine it would be the same examiners who were appointed in the summer. Marking in the evening and at weekends, much like the appeals are done in September. There won't be a huge number of papers in any subject.

As for supervision, I guess when they know how many students sign up I guess they'll appoint people to supervise from those who applied for the exams in June.

My guess is that they'll take place in schools. If they are running over a month, it would be a bit much asking people to horse up and down to Athlone (or wherever to do them), and for any core subject where they will probably have the largest numbers, not the most practical in terms of rooms and social distancing.

km79 · 25-09-2020 10:11pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

My guess is that they'll take place in schools. If they are running over a month, it would be a bit much asking people to horse up and down to Athlone (or wherever to do them), and for any core subject where they will probably have the largest numbers, not the most practical in terms of rooms and social distancing.

That’s my guess too so...........who closes the school /opens and closes it at weekends .....
Do P/DPs have to be on call throughout the exam sessions ? After working all day/week (and summer hols ) ?

There are education centres all around the country and most wont be in use now as night classes are all “webinars “ these days !

Maybe the JCT brigade could do it ! They should all have been sent back to the classrooms this year . I seen a tweet earlier about their important work “repurposing” think/pair/share and the like for this year. Give me strength !
Or the inspectorate . They aren’t up to much either

rainbowtrout · 25-09-2020 10:15pm

km79 wrote: »

That’s my guess too so...........who closes the school /opens and closes it at weekends .....
Do P/DPs have to be on call throughout the exam sessions ? After working all day/week (and summer hols ) ?

There are education centres all around the country and most wont be in use now as night classes are all “webinars “ these days !

Maybe the JCT brigade could do it ! They should all have been sent back to the classrooms this year . I seen a tweet earlier about their important work “repurposing” think/pair/share and the like for this year. Give me strength !
Or the inspectorate . They aren’t up to much either

km79 · 25-09-2020 10:29pm

“ The SEC says it is intended that candidates will sit their examinations in their former schools, as they would have had the exams proceeded in June. ”

There are 3 schools in the town I work in
There might be a handful of students for some exams in all 3 schools
All 3 will have to be opened , heated etc . With 3 diff supervisors
This will be replicated in other small towns
Daft !

spurious · 26-09-2020 12:08am

At that rate, it could end up costing them quite a bit of the money saved.

The bean counters will have a fit.

km79 · 26-09-2020 8:36am

It’s a good job schools won’t be having PTMS in the schools or staff meetings or school shows etc

Interestingly it does say the exams going ahead is still subject to public health advice !

Treppen · 26-09-2020 10:25am

spurious wrote: »

At that rate, it could end up costing them quite a bit of the money saved.

The bean counters will have a fit.

I think teachers will be called upon to throw on the green Jersey again.

.
.
.
.
Or the red jersey as I like to call it nowadays

rainbowtrout · 26-09-2020 10:30am

Treppen wrote: »

I think teachers will be called upon to throw on the green Jersey again.

Why? The SEC contract people to do this work and pay them. Why would this be any different.

I got this email from the SEC in June as I had applied for superintending

Dear Applicant,

I wish to convey our sincere gratitude to you for applying for the position of Superintendent at the 2020 written examinations and for your forbearance during these challenging times.

We regret that due to the cancellation of these examinations because of the Covid-19 crisis we do not require any Superintendents for the summer of 2020. While the 2020 Junior Cycle examinations have been cancelled, candidates for the 2020 Leaving Certificate written examinations will have the option to sit these when it is safe and practicable for them to take place. When these Leaving Certificate examinations are rescheduled we will see what our requirements are and if we need to contact you at that stage we will. There will be no need to reapply.

Once again, we thank you for your patience and in any event we look forward to working with you again next year. To that end we will automatically issue you with an application form to Superintend at the 2021 written examinations.

km79 · 26-09-2020 10:52am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why? The SEC contract people to do this work and pay them. Why would this be any different.

I got this email from the SEC in June as I had applied for superintending

I think it will be P/DPs who will be asked to don the green jersey
The unions are very quiet on this
And the request for personal phone numbers ......

I wonder would there be a few inspectors and JCT members who could help schools out .......

Millem · 26-09-2020 1:23pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why? The SEC contract people to do this work and pay them. Why would this be any different.

I got this email from the SEC in June as I had applied for superintending

I got the same email.
For any teacher who is currently working I presume you are released from school like the practicals etc.

rainbowtrout · 26-09-2020 1:59pm

Millem wrote: »

I got the same email.
For any teacher who is currently working I presume you are released from school like the practicals etc.

There are no practicals. All winter exams are 100% written.

Millem · 26-09-2020 3:16pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There are no practicals. All winter exams are 100% written.

Yes, sorry I meant I presume superintendents will be released from school like practical examiners in previous years. (Km79 asked who will supervise).

km79 · 26-09-2020 3:25pm

Millem wrote: »

Yes, sorry I meant I presume superintendents will be released from school like practical examiners in previous years. (Km79 asked who will supervise).

That will create another headache for schools as there are damn all teachers available as is !

Interesting to see how it will be operated

rainbowtrout · 26-09-2020 3:27pm

Millem wrote: »

Yes, sorry I meant I presume superintendents will be released from school like practical examiners in previous years. (Km79 asked who will supervise).

But they're all in the evening after school hours???

No exam starts earlier than 5:30 according to the timetable. If you finish work at 4 you could be sent to another school in the locality to supervise. Personally I would have thought that postage would be a more awkward consideration.

Post offices aren't open at night so are the exams locked up in the school at night to be collected and posted the following day?

man_no_plan · 26-09-2020 3:28pm

It will be in the evenings and at weekends, being released won't come into it.

km79 · 26-09-2020 3:49pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

It will be in the evenings and at weekends, being released won't come into it.

Get those jerseys ready

man_no_plan · 26-09-2020 4:25pm

There's a full circular on it.

SEC will appoint a superintendent to run the exams in the school. The school can appoint an aide.

School to source superintendents for centres, including special centres.

It will be very hard to recruit superintendents I think but numbers will be very small I would say.

rainbowtrout · 26-09-2020 4:27pm

km79 wrote: »

Get those jerseys ready

It’s paid work. Nobody is obliged to do it. If it doesn’t suit you, don’t apply

km79 · 26-09-2020 4:37pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

There's a full circular on it.

SEC will appoint a superintendent to run the exams in the school. The school can appoint an aide.

School to source superintendents for centres, including special centres.

It will be very hard to recruit superintendents I think but numbers will be very small I would say.

I can’t see that circular online ?
Would you mind posting a link

km79 · 26-09-2020 4:38pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

School to source superintendents for centres,

Isn’t that the SEC job ?
What’s happens if there are no takers ......

man_no_plan · 26-09-2020 4:48pm

km79 wrote: »

Isn’t that the SEC job ?
What’s happens if there are no takers ......

Then the craic will start.

It was hard enough to get LWR, covid aide, calculated grades aide.

spurious · 26-09-2020 6:11pm

It is very much the SEC's job to source independent Superintendents.

In fact, they expect people to declare any connections to schools or candidates. It would be outrageous for schools to choose their own superintendents for exams. Too many possibilities for shenanigans.

km79 · 26-09-2020 6:16pm

spurious wrote: »

It is very much the SEC's job to source independent Superintendents.

In fact, they expect people to declare any connections to schools or candidates. It would be outrageous for schools to choose their own superintendents for exams. Too many possibilities for shenanigans.

An excellent point

man_no_plan · 26-09-2020 6:25pm

spurious wrote: »

It would be outrageous for schools to choose their own superintendents for exams. Too many possibilities for shenanigans.

I agree but that's what they plan on doing.

RealJohn · 26-09-2020 11:29pm

spurious wrote: »

It is very much the SEC's job to source independent Superintendents.

In fact, they expect people to declare any connections to schools or candidates. It would be outrageous for schools to choose their own superintendents for exams. Too many possibilities for shenanigans.

You’re not wrong, but possible “shenanigans” during actual exams is certainly no worse than the invented grades debacle.

Newbie20 · 27-09-2020 8:21am

It’s been obvious all along that they really hope that these exams don’t have to go ahead. I hope there is a reasonable uptake just to put the pressure on the SEC but it won’t happen, uptake will be small. Even if a student wanted to give them a go, they would surely feel that they are not properly prepared for the exams.

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 11:50am

Newbie20 wrote: »

It’s been obvious all along that they really hope that these exams don’t have to go ahead. I hope there is a reasonable uptake just to put the pressure on the SEC but it won’t happen, uptake will be small. Even if a student wanted to give them a go, they would surely feel that they are not properly prepared for the exams.

There won't be massive pressure on the SEC I think. Some schools because of the cohort of students they have will not have anyone sitting the exams. Other schools will have multiple students, but realistically will still only need one large room for the exam, unless there is a student who requires a special centre.

Unless you have multiple students in a centre, sitting all 7 subjects each, most centres will only be open for a couple of days. I'd imagine that maths will be the most popular exam given the college entry requirement.

Anyone who is in the high points brigade and got their 550+ points for medicine etc, but didn't get a place will only repeat the H2s or lower.

km79 · 28-09-2020 12:02pm

I still can’t see any circular posted online ?

km79 · 28-09-2020 2:57pm

km79 wrote: »

I still can’t see any circular posted online ?

Found it buried on the sec site
https://www.examinations.ie/schools/cs_view.php?q=ec2ca939b5a2c8469f09acadf097317ad4793df1

km79 · 11-10-2020 11:18am

So.............how are these exams going to go ahead if the country heads the way it is going by mid November ..............”subject fo public health advice “...........

Treppen · 11-10-2020 12:16pm

km79 wrote: »

So.............how are these exams going to go ahead if the country heads the way it is going by mid November ..............”subject fo public health advice “...........

I think they'll be going with re-predicted grades for repeats. So teachers will have to do some serious reflection and get it right this time.
We already have the calculated-grades software so that's not going to cause any issues.

rainbowtrout · 11-10-2020 7:35pm

Treppen wrote: »

I think they'll be going with re-predicted grades for repeats. So teachers will have to do some serious reflection and get it right this time.
We already have the calculated-grades software so that's not going to cause any issues.

I don't think so. How are teachers going to predict grades based on predicted grades? They wouldn't be marking any other direction other than up. Also I suspect legal challenges would be mounted if the exams don't take place.

The vast majority of schools will only have 1-2 students at most sitting any exams. Given that we already have full classrooms for 6 hours a day, I can't see why they would cancel the exams when it's likely to be one student and an examiner in a room in most cases.

Rosita · 11-10-2020 8:33pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think so. How are teachers going to predict grades based on predicted grades? They wouldn't be marking any other direction other than up. Also I suspect legal challenges would be mounted if the exams don't take place.

The vast majority of schools will only have 1-2 students at most sitting any exams. Given that we already have full classrooms for 6 hours a day, I can't see why they would cancel the exams when it's likely to be one student and an examiner in a room in most cases.

Pretty sure the comment about predicted grades was tongue in cheek - on the other aspect, judging by the reaction to the results originally I'd say there'll be many schools with nobody doing the LC and a a minority with nearly every student doing something.

8k71ps · 21-10-2020 8:15pm

Anyone know if the plan is to still run with them even if the schools are closed / there's some form of industrial action?

RealJohn · 21-10-2020 10:45pm

8k71ps wrote: »

Anyone know if the plan is to still run with them even if the schools are closed / there's some form of industrial action?

Having an excuse not to run them is exactly what the government is looking for, but given that the official line continues to be that schools aren’t going to be closing, it’s hard to see how they could justify keeping schools open all day for hundreds of students but can’t keep them open in the evenings so that a handful of former students can sit exams.

rainbowtrout · 22-10-2020 10:07am

8k71ps wrote: »

Anyone know if the plan is to still run with them even if the schools are closed / there's some form of industrial action?

Can't imagine how industrial action would affect them. SEC are separate from schools/DES.

deiseindublin · 22-10-2020 2:27pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Can't imagine how industrial action would affect them. SEC are separate from schools/DES.

They are hoping that teachers will supervise in their own schools. I can't imagine those appointed will pass a picket in their own centres if strike is planned, or even muted, for weekends.

rainbowtrout · 22-10-2020 3:04pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

They are hoping that teachers will supervise in their own schools. I can't imagine those appointed will pass a picket in their own centres if strike is planned, or even muted, for weekends.

Teachers are paid as contract workers for the duration of the exams. They are not working for the SEC in a teaching capacity. Pickets on schools would be during school hours. They are two different things.

RealJohn · 22-10-2020 3:53pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Teachers are paid as contract workers for the duration of the exams. They are not working for the SEC in a teaching capacity. Pickets on schools would be during school hours. They are two different things.

To be fair, that depends on the picket. If it’s a 24 hour strike, there might be no picketing going on in the evening but entering the premises is still passing the picket.
If it’s one of those pointless lunchtime protests, then it wouldn’t matter.

Treppen · 23-10-2020 12:50am

There won't be nuthin done about any ballot till after Christmas.

Leftwaffe · 28-10-2020 6:15pm

Going to be doing the aide job for this. I know literally nothing about it only the start date. Done the calculated grades aide but entirely different.

Anyone with experience want to outline what it entails? Thanks if so.

km79 · 28-10-2020 6:39pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Going to be doing the aide job for this. I know literally nothing about it only the start date. Done the calculated grades aide but entirely different.

Anyone with experience want to outline what it entails? Thanks if so.

You will be doing EVERYTHING
Including opening and closing the school

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-EX-82108748.pdf

km79 · 28-10-2020 6:40pm

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-EX-82108748.pdf

Leftwaffe · 28-10-2020 8:02pm

km79 wrote: »

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-EX-82108748.pdf

Thanks for that. Doesn't actually sound too bad to be honest. We've only a handful doing it anyway.

km79 · 28-10-2020 8:09pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Thanks for that. Doesn't actually sound too bad to be honest. We've only a handful doing it anyway.

Only a handful in most schools I’d say
Only a handful in all 3 schools in my town
And yet all 3 schools will have to be opened
Daft

LW2018 · 31-10-2020 3:25pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Going to be doing the aide job for this. I know literally nothing about it only the start date. Done the calculated grades aide but entirely different.

Anyone with experience want to outline what it entails? Thanks if so.

Going to do this in school as the usual Exam Aide but I am splitting the role. We only have 5/6 sitting the exams - some doing 1/2 subjects and others doing all but it is too much to be asked, I feel, of an Exam Aide. The first week, for example, I'd only have one evening off and there all day Saturday and Sunday. The exams run late into the evening after a long day of teaching and with other commitments etc. it is challenging. Also, did you see about the collection of the exam paper boxes on the Sunday - days in which exams are scheduled to take place? How are we to be in 2 places at once? I have emailed them for clarity but was sent back the circular and told the answer is within it.

SEC paying an Exam Aide, an SEC superintendent who doesn't supervise, a supervisor and an attendant. I think it is such squandering of money tbh. The Exam Aide and the SEC Superintendent sitting there, doing some paperwork but mainly all their own work while a supervisor sits in and supervises potentially one student? Also... no Post Office will be open at the conclusion of exams, so when does the SEC superintendent return the completed exams? I think the plans were put in place when they expected there to be much more sitting them but they need to look at the amount of personnel involved I think? Localised exam centres should have been used really.

km79 · 31-10-2020 3:29pm

LW2018 wrote: »

Going to do this in school as the usual Exam Aide but I am splitting the role. We only have 5/6 sitting the exams - some doing 1/2 subjects and others doing all but it is too much to be asked, I feel, of an Exam Aide. The first week, for example, I'd only have one evening off and there all day Saturday and Sunday. The exams run late into the evening after a long day of teaching and with other commitments etc. it is challenging. Also, did you see about the collection of the exam paper boxes on the Sunday - days in which exams are scheduled to take place? How are we to be in 2 places at once? I have emailed them for clarity but was sent back the circular and told the answer is within it.

SEC paying an Exam Aide, an SEC superintendent who doesn't supervise, a supervisor and an attendant. I think it is such squandering of money tbh. The Exam Aide and the SEC Superintendent sitting there, doing some paperwork but mainly all their own work while a supervisor sits in and supervises potentially one student? Also... no Post Office will be open at the conclusion of exams, so when does the SEC superintendent return the completed exams? I think the plans were put in place when they expected there to be much more sitting them but they need to look at the amount of personnel involved I think? Localised exam centres should have been used really.

100%
Crazy crazy crazy waste of money . 3 schools in our town . Handful from each. All 3 schools opening, need staffing , electricity , heating

Regarding the time off and late evenings etc
Also correct BUT if you apply for it you are agreeing to it .
I do wonder what there plan is if nobody in a school applies for it . I know I wouldn’t even consider it tbh

Hadn’t even spotted the EA also needs to recruit supervisors ??????
I can see schools struggling to get anyone

LW2018 · 31-10-2020 6:54pm

km79 wrote: »

100%
Crazy crazy crazy waste of money . 3 schools in our town . Handful from each. All 3 schools opening, need staffing , electricity , heating

Regarding the time off and late evenings etc
Also correct BUT if you apply for it you are agreeing to it .
I do wonder what there plan is if nobody in a school applies for it . I know I wouldn’t even consider it tbh

Hadn’t even spotted the EA also needs to recruit supervisors ??????
I can see schools struggling to get anyone

I've said I'll oversee it and do some of the evenings as the school's EA... I know I will have a number of different supervisors over the 3 weeks but there's nothing else that can be done. Some might want to upskill for the CV so I'm happy to share the EA role with them but for school organisational purposes I think no more than 2 EAs are desirable. Such squandered money that could go into so much more! Keeping schools open that late, holding up the cleaning staff from finishing their duties etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see some change to the plans on the SEC's behalf when school's struggle to get the personnel required. I know it is handy for a bit of extra Christmas cash for people so that might be helpful but they are long days for staff - especially with no chance to correct work during the invigilation of the exams??

Treppen · 31-10-2020 6:56pm

LW2018 wrote: »

Going to do this in school as the usual Exam Aide but I am splitting the role. We only have 5/6 sitting the exams - some doing 1/2 subjects and others doing all but it is too much to be asked, I feel, of an Exam Aide. The first week, for example, I'd only have one evening off and there all day Saturday and Sunday. The exams run late into the evening after a long day of teaching and with other commitments etc. it is challenging. Also, did you see about the collection of the exam paper boxes on the Sunday - days in which exams are scheduled to take place? How are we to be in 2 places at once? I have emailed them for clarity but was sent back the circular and told the answer is within it.

SEC paying an Exam Aide, an SEC superintendent who doesn't supervise, a supervisor and an attendant. I think it is such squandering of money tbh. The Exam Aide and the SEC Superintendent sitting there, doing some paperwork but mainly all their own work while a supervisor sits in and supervises potentially one student? Also... no Post Office will be open at the conclusion of exams, so when does the SEC superintendent return the completed exams? I think the plans were put in place when they expected there to be much more sitting them but they need to look at the amount of personnel involved I think? Localised exam centres should have been used really.

From previous invigilation when the post office started to act the maggot I stored completed exams with the exam papers in the Garda station.

Leftwaffe · 31-10-2020 7:27pm

Is the EA expected to recruit superintendents from existing staff? That's ridiculous no? Can't see many candidates emerging from our place.

And how does one go about "sharing" the role also? Gonna be a long two weeks on my own doing it but could do with the cash. We've only a handful doing it so I'm not sure if we will be required to be there for every might yet.

State exams Nov 2020

Comments