Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

spurious · 15-02-2019 1:08am

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05811/4644993.pdf

Last two entries on that page.
Both have what looks like 'mother' listed as the informant for deaths of an 80 and 90 year old. That can't be right, can it? Am I misreading it?

srmf5 · 15-02-2019 1:17am

spurious wrote: »

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05811/4644993.pdf

Last two entries on that page.
Both have what looks like 'mother' listed as the informant for deaths of an 80 and 90 year old. That can't be right, can it? Am I misreading it?

It looks like mother to me too. It looks like it was a mistake that went unnoticed. The second last entry looks like it could possibly be 30 instead of 90 but the last one is definitely 80.

Edit: Roots Ireland record the second last entry as 30.
I notice that the last entry was for a Catholic priest. The informant was hardly a nun with a title like mother superior possibly? It seems like a bit of a stretch but it's all that I can think of if it's not a mistake.

Jellybaby1 · 15-02-2019 1:20am

srmf5 wrote: »

It looks like mother to me too. It looks like it was a mistake that went unnoticed. The second last entry looks like it could possibly be 30 instead of 90 but the last one is definitely 80.

I'd go with 30 for the second last one too. I notice that the last entry the deceased was a priest, any chance the informant might have been a Reverend Mother? Just a wild guess.

spurious · 15-02-2019 1:28am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I'd go with 30 for the second last one too. I notice that the last entry the deceased was a priest, any chance the informant might have been a Reverend Mother? Just a wild guess.

Oh that's a possibility, though I would have thought a nun would be able to sign her name. I notice the other person is listed as an imbecile, god help her, who may have been in the care of nuns too.

It's a strange page. The first death has almost the same name as the informant of the last. Spooky.

**edit. Checking the 1901 census, there are a number of likely 'M.A.' and 'B.C.' candidates in the convents in Waterford. It may have been a term for a nun.

Jellybaby1 · 15-02-2019 1:39am

The 'mother' who made her mark is on the second last entry, not the priest's entry. But they are indeed very strange entries.

BowWow · 15-02-2019 9:44am

Second last one I'd say mother and age is 30 - especially when you look at the 3 in 30 in entry 274 and the 3 in 31 in entry 277.

Last entry - could it possibly be "teacher"?

SophieLockhart · 15-02-2019 1:30pm

BowWow wrote: »

Last entry - could it possibly be "teacher"?

No it's definitely 'mother' - the m is the same as the m in male, and the cross of the t is obvious. Also interesting that in the end section, the registrar leaves out the name in the final entry 280, as if he also has doubts.

But I suppose it's possible that the real age of the priest might be say 72 or 3 and the mother might be 90 or so.

srmf5 · 15-02-2019 1:35pm

SophieLockhart wrote: »

No it's definitely 'mother' - the m is the same as the m in male, and the cross of the t is obvious. Also interesting that in the end section, the registrar leaves out the name in the final entry 280, as if he also has doubts.

But I suppose it's possible that the real age of the priest might be say 72 or 3 and the mother might be 90 or so.

What do you mean by a name being left out in the end section of the final entry 280? I don't see any blanks where there should have been a name.

spurious · 15-02-2019 4:17pm

Down at the very bottom of the page, where they usually give the names of the first and last person on the page, the last person's name is missing.

yaledo · 24-02-2019 10:09pm

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634194#page/13

Hello, i'm stuck with the 9th entry on the left hand page at the link above.

This is from Moycullen Parish Baptism Registers from 1844.

Note that the format is
[Date] [Townland] [Child's forename] ["of"] [Father's full name] [mother's full name] ["sp"] [sponsor name 1] [sponsor name 2]

Here's my best effort:
August 8 Krick [?] of Tom Hare [or Bane?] and Biddy Do. Sp [?] Faherty and Mary Dryden

I'm particularly interested to know
a) the surname (do you think it's Hare or Bane? - Both common names in the area at the time)
b) the child's forename (which is identical to the name of the first sponsor. This same name happens to appear 3 lines earlier as a sponsor's name. I think it might be an abbreviation, but I can't make head nor tail of it.

pinkypinky · 24-02-2019 10:36pm

I think it's Hare.

I read all the mothers listed with Do - meaning ditto, so not their own birth surnames.

Could the first name be Susanna - SS then NA in superscript?

Vetch · 24-02-2019 10:41pm

yaledo wrote: »

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634194#page/13

Hello, i'm stuck with the 9th entry on the left hand page at the link above.

This is from Moycullen Parish Baptism Registers from 1844.

Note that the format is
[Date] [Townland] [Child's forename] ["of"] [Father's full name] [mother's full name] ["sp"] [sponsor name 1] [sponsor name 2]

Here's my best effort:
August 8 Krick [?] of Tom Hare [or Bane?] and Biddy Do. Sp [?] Faherty and Mary Dryden

I'm particularly interested to know
a) the surname (do you think it's Hare or Bane? - Both common names in the area at the time)
b) the child's forename (which is identical to the name of the first sponsor. This same name happens to appear 3 lines earlier as a sponsor's name. I think it might be an abbreviation, but I can't make head nor tail of it.

I think name of both baby and godfather is Wm. It's written in a very stylised way.

yaledo · 24-02-2019 10:48pm

pinkypinky, I think you're right that it's Hare, rather than 'Bane' (the name I'm researching), so the rest of it is no longer very important for me, apart from general curiosity.

For the record, I think it looks like SS and then something in superscript, but as Vetch points out, the other 2 examples on the page seem to be the names of [Sponsor name 1] - and this is usually a man.

One could go looking for other samples of William on the page, but like I said, this one is less interesting for me now.

Many thanks for your quick responses. Ye are legends as always.

pinkypinky · 28-02-2019 4:39pm

Ok, this one is part handwriting part detective.

Baptism recorded in St Lawrence O'Toole's in 1880 as follows on Irishgenealogy:
Name MARIA ANNA MELLIN
Date of Birth 11 February 1880
Address 8 GRAVES COTTAGES NEWFOUNDLAND ST
Father JOANNES MELLIN
Mother MARIA CULLEN

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ba_0400

As you will see the image is very fuzzy on the lefthand page (as is the version the NLI has). I think Mellin is a mistranscription because there's no Mellin births ever for Dublin North.
I've tried Mullin and also looked at marriages for Mary Cullen in the previous decade but nothing jumped out at me.

Thoughts?

ThunderCat · 28-02-2019 4:43pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Ok, this one is part handwriting part detective.

Baptism recorded in St Lawrence O'Toole's in 1880 as follows on Irishgenealogy:
Name MARIA ANNA MELLIN
Date of Birth 11 February 1880
Address 8 GRAVES COTTAGES NEWFOUNDLAND ST
Father JOANNES MELLIN
Mother MARIA CULLEN

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ba_0400

As you will see the image is very fuzzy on the lefthand page (as is the version the NLI has). I think Mellin is a mistranscription because there's no Mellin births ever for Dublin North.
I've tried Mullin and also looked at marriages for Mary Cullen in the previous decade but nothing jumped out at me.

Thoughts?

What about Mullins as opposed to Mullin? Think that might be an 's' at the end.

JDERIC2017 · 28-02-2019 4:52pm

ThunderCat wrote: »

What about Mullins as opposed to Mullin? Think that might be an 's' at the end.

this any help

pinkypinky · 28-02-2019 5:33pm

Mullins comes up as a name variant for Mullin so you get the same results.

The Ancestry transcription is the same as the irishgenealogy unfortunately.

New Home · 28-02-2019 7:01pm

I think that's Melia.

spurious · 28-02-2019 7:54pm

Mellon is also a name featured in those parts.

Hermy · 28-02-2019 8:57pm

I'm with New Home - that's Melia.

spurious · 28-02-2019 9:35pm

There is a Mary Anne Melia death in 1880.
Aged 9 months. Different address, but mother Mary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06460/4857318.pdf
Entry 404.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 10:18am

Thanks for the suggestions but haven't found a corresponding birth.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 10:20am

Thanks Spurious, we must have cross-posted there.

I'll try marriages with that combo.
ETA: nothing with these. I've looked at all Mary Cullen marriages for the decade before to Johns and can't make anything into a version of what we're seeing.

Where are these people?

The godparents to this baptism are my ggg-grandfather's sister and her husband, and Cullen is the linking name, so finding a marriage for Mary Cullen and her husband would hopefully yield another sibling for that generation.

New Home · 01-03-2019 12:02pm

She could've been born abroad.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 12:21pm

It's not impossible but the baptism took place on 13th Feb and states birth 2 days before so it seems more likely that they didn't register her birth or I haven't found the right surname yet.

Vetch · 01-03-2019 1:02pm

Is this the right marriage for the sponsors on the baptism? One of the witnesses is Mary Melia https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11067/8049081.pdf

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 1:41pm

Oh brilliant spot!

I have that marriage (it is right) but never thought to look at it!!

That whole book for St Lawrence O'Toole's is very badly imaged.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ma_0495

Charles Day was from the Gold Coast in Africa - very interesting man, worked on boats, ended up here, married Rosanna. They went on to live in Glasgow.

Have now found a bunch of matching Melia kids (including ones called Rosanna and Charles). Hopefully this will lead to a marriage that will confirm Mary being Rosanna's sister.

Thanks all!

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 6:31pm

I'm just wondering if any of you would be able to help confirm what I'm reading here: http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246902_00103.pdf

It's the 4th entry and I'm looking at the far right under observations. I'm reading it as 'purchased the interest(?) in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits.' There's another part faded underneath which could be related to entry 5 rather than 4. It looks like 'The Kelly(?) session(?) is but(?) the use of a room once a fortnight...' and I can't make out the rest. There's also a bit in the middle crossing over entries 4 and 5. at an angle that's a bit faded with a ? beside it 'Part of no. 5 occupied by the...' Thanks for any help.

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 6:42pm

"purchased the interest in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits - the petty sessions is but the use of a room once a fortnight and occupied during the interim"

maybe?

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 6:47pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

"purchased the interest in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits - the petty sessions is but the use of a room once a fortnight and occupied during the interim"

maybe?

Ah thank you. Petty sessions makes sense. I was trying to figure out if it was two l's or two t's and what I thought was a 'K' looked to be missing what I'm going to refer to it as its upper right arm.

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 6:47pm

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty petit sessions" ???

Vetch · 04-03-2019 8:26pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty sessions" ???

Grand Jury

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 8:32pm

Vetch wrote: »

Grand Jury

Great eye Vetch! That makes better sense for sure!.......and it appears more as Petit sessions there, maybe?

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 8:36pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty sessions" ???

Thank you! Would any of you happen to know what is meant by house projection and house return? Also the last description for entry 4. is a (?) office?

Is it not a bit strange that he would have spent £80 on buildings, etc. worth £14 or am misinterpreting that whole interest part?

Vetch · 04-03-2019 8:37pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

Great eye Vetch! That makes better sense for sure!.......and it appears more as Petit sessions there, maybe?

I can see where you got 'fraud' - the way it's written it's the same 'shape' as 'grand'. I think it might be 'Petit Sessions Ho.' but it's very faint.

Vetch · 04-03-2019 10:02pm

srmf5 wrote: »

Thank you! Would any of you happen to know what is meant by house projection and house return? Also the last description for entry 4. is a (?) office?

Is it not a bit strange that he would have spent £80 on buildings, etc. worth £14 or am misinterpreting that whole interest part?

It's 'distant office' in no. 4.

According to an online dictionary, the return of a building is:
a.
a part of a building that forms an angle with the façade
b.
any part of an architectural feature that forms an angle with the main part

You see it sometimes in descriptions of houses that are for sale. I had to look it up so hopefully someone else will be along to explain better!

It was the interest in a lease rather than the buildings themselves that £80 was paid for. I think you'd have to take the terms of the lease that was bought out into account. The lessee may have had a very long-running or perpetual lease.

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 10:28pm

Vetch wrote: »

It's 'distant office' in no. 4.

According to an online dictionary, the return of a building is:
a.
a part of a building that forms an angle with the façade
b.
any part of an architectural feature that forms an angle with the main part

You see it sometimes in descriptions of houses that are for sale. I had to look it up so hopefully someone else will be along to explain better!

It was the interest in a lease rather than the buildings themselves that £80 was paid for. I think you'd have to take the terms of the lease that was bought out into account. The lessee may have had a very long-running or perpetual lease.

Thank you for that information. It's a wonder that he wouldn't have just built a house from scratch though if it was going to cost that amount to buy but maybe it was in a good location or people in the area weren't willing to sell any of their land for a house to be built on or he wanted a house quick without the hassle of waiting until it was built and furnished. You're probably right that whatever terms were on the lease likely played a part in the price though.

I'm just curious about this man William because my grandfather's cousin had it that an ancestor of the same surname born around 1830 was originally from that village and married into his wife's farm. William is the only man with that surname at the time of Griffith's. However, it was only a small farm that my ancestor married into so I doubt that there's a connection. Although, his son bought a hotel and a pub so maybe there was some link to that sort of occupation going back. It seemed a bit random that a small farmer suddenly bought a hotel and pub! William doesn't seem to have been living in that village long either if he only recently got a lease there which further makes a connection seem less likely.

Vetch · 05-03-2019 9:53am

srmf5 wrote: »

Thank you for that information. It's a wonder that he wouldn't have just built a house from scratch though if it was going to cost that amount to buy but maybe it was in a good location or people in the area weren't willing to sell any of their land for a house to be built on or he wanted a house quick without the hassle of waiting until it was built and furnished. You're probably right that whatever terms were on the lease likely played a part in the price though.

I'm just curious about this man William because my grandfather's cousin had it that an ancestor of the same surname born around 1830 was originally from that village and married into his wife's farm. William is the only man with that surname at the time of Griffith's. However, it was only a small farm that my ancestor married into so I doubt that there's a connection. Although, his son bought a hotel and a pub so maybe there was some link to that sort of occupation going back. It seemed a bit random that a small farmer suddenly bought a hotel and pub! William doesn't seem to have been living in that village long either if he only recently got a lease there which further makes a connection seem less likely.

He was buying a business which could generate income rather than just a house though. Documentation around the property, if it can be found, might provide further info about William Kelly.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:22pm

hi, could someone kindly translate the latin Christian name here please:

thanks

spurious · 05-03-2019 1:25pm

I think it's a version of the Latin for Denis.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:33pm

spurious wrote: »

I think it's a version of the Latin for Denis.

thanks, found a marriage and death record for Denis Power for the area.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:57pm

Have another word I can't make out. Any takers?

[URL="[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pnOC2k7Uj][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/OC2k7U.jpg[/IMG][/URL]"][/url]

pinkypinky · 05-03-2019 3:28pm

Can you please post the full page link - as is requested in the title of this thread - and repeatedly said by me within it?

srmf5 · 05-03-2019 4:25pm

Vetch wrote: »

He was buying a business which could generate income rather than just a house though. Documentation around the property, if it can be found, might provide further info about William Kelly.

Thanks for the suggestion. I found the name of his wife. Back in 1835 and 1841, they had children born in Rathcroghan. She was from Bellanagare so they must have lived Rathcroghan for a while before moving to Bellanagare. I actually already had notes on this family but hadn't connected the two together as the same person since I hadn't tried to research them before. I only got the information about an origin in Bellanagare recently from a relative. They lived at the Clonalis Arms Hotel and William farmed extensively. The hotel that my ancestor bought was actually called the Sandford Arms Hotel but it already had that name when he bought it.

The only way that William could have been my ancestor's father is if by saying he was originally from Bellanagare just meant that he lived there before he married. I had thought that there could have been a connection to this family before based on a letter and other information and my dad and his aunt are DNA matches to a descendant of William's brother and another match who I think is descended from another brother. I have my doubts on a connection through that line though since there just hasn't been anything concrete yet.

Anyway back to the handwriting deciphering! Sometimes I just find it good to write out the information that I have just so that it's clear in my head.

KildareFan · 06-03-2019 12:32am

cocokabana wrote: »

Have another word I can't make out. Any takers?

Looks like Horsepasture - if you give the link to the full page we'd know the county and make a more educated guess.

pinkypinky · 10-03-2019 2:00am

First marriage on this page: what's the groom's mother's birth surname please?

Also, what's the note in the comment column?

ETA: just thought to look at Rootsireland to see what they have for it but will wait to see what others here think.

Wyldwood · 10-03-2019 11:11am

Not sure what the name is, looks like Hinsly/Hurley but the note means the groom was a widower, I think

Vetch · 10-03-2019 12:14pm

Kinsley and sponsus viduus est.

pinkypinky · 10-03-2019 12:22pm

Oh! I agree on the name.
The Latin translation is very interesting, as these people are my own ancestors.
Thank you.

VicWynne · 23-03-2019 4:56pm

Hi folks,

Can anyone make out the name of the husband that registered the death of Anne Meehan, number 71 on the page below.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06390/4834748.pdf

Many thanks in advance
Vic

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page