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Monitors vs TV's

  • 28-08-2013 11:33am
    #1
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Hi Jack - I have a question that you seem to be the only person who seems to have the knowledge to answer. You also seem to be one of the few people on the forums in general who isn't overly opinionated and vitriolic. This subject seems to invoke a lot of bad feeling sometimes!

    I'm looking at a brand new PVM 20M2E for cheap on eBay at the moment (£40 uk)
    I've read & researched quite extensively on the net about PVM's and other arcade/broadcast monitors & TV's.You and I seem to be in the minority that think that PVM's & other monitors of this type have too pronounced scanlines and too fine a dot pitch to produce a picture that is bright and authentic - like the CRT's we used to use with our consoles in the 80's/90's. I want to find a TV for my N64. I've been put off monitors a bit as I feel that a TV feels more authentic for my N64. Also, the picture is pretty blurry on this console & I think that a monitor that is very sharp with strong scanlines would just make the picture look worse - is that something that you'd agree with?

    I have a Sony trinitron (from the UK so it has RGB scart - my N64 is RGB modded too) I've always loved these TV's but can't seem to find one with good geometry - I am waiting for a new one to pop up on eBay. I've heard, though, that even these Sony's TV's have more pronounced scanlines than other TV's - do you know of any CRT TV's that are as high quality as the Sony that has less pronounced scanlines?

    My problem is that I really like a 25 inch screen for the immersion but at 25 inches, the scanlines are quite obvious on my Sony KV-25X5U.

    All the best, Andy


Comments

  • #2
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    PS. Sorry to ask this on a post but I can't PM you as I don't have enough posts!


  • #3
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,246 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Scanlines are always going to be obvious on CRTs 25 inches and bigger. I don't think I've come across one yet which broke this rule.

    The CRT we had when I was growing up had much harder to discern scanlines (Mitsubishi, can't remember what model. Better than a Black Diamond anyway!) but from what I remember, it was only about 19 inches or thereabouts. As the years went on, CRTs got bigger, as did scanlines.

    The commodore 1084 monitor I have is 13 inches and you can barely make out a scanline at all.
    andykara2003 wrote: »
    You also seem to be one of the few people on the forums in general who isn't overly opinionated and vitriolic.

    By the way, no need for that. People tend not to get vitriolic around these parts. It's one of the few decent forums where that rarely happens.


  • #4
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    Hi - thanks v. much for your reply - really appreciated.

    Anyone else able to point me to a CRT TV that has less obvious scanlines?

    PS. I should have been clearer - I meant all the forums in general I have visited on this subject - not this one!


  • #5
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,246 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    andykara2003 wrote: »
    PS. I should have been clearer - I meant all the forums in general I have visited on this subject - not this one!

    Ah sorry, took you up wrong!
    andykara2003 wrote: »

    Anyone else able to point me to a CRT TV that has less obvious scanlines?

    Have you looked into vertical compression at all? Apparently some later model Sony TVs have it. It's not something I've ever looked into, but might solve your issue.

    From what I've gathered, it compresses the image down vertically, removing any 'blank' scanlines. (which will ultimately make the scanlines smaller and sharper)

    Edit - check out the Sony KV-36XBR400 (too big for your requirements but has this feature)


  • #6
    LoGiE
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭LoGiE


    andykara2003 wrote: »
    Hi - thanks v. much for your reply - really appreciated.

    Anyone else able to point me to a CRT TV that has less obvious scanlines?

    PS. I should have been clearer - I meant all the forums in general I have visited on this subject - not this one!

    Hi andykara2003,

    This isn't to forum to discuss this topic . Feel free to start a thread in the main forum and I can move your posts.

    Thanks,
    LoGiE


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  • #7
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    Thanks for that o1s1n - I'll look into that, very interesting. I'm not sure that this feature will have made it into UK TV versions but I hope so.

    The only thing is, Am I right in saying that if I want to avoid line doubling, I need to look for a TV that has no processing, i.e. a trinirton that is pre 2000?

    Thanks Logie - I will create a new post.


  • #8
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    Sorry, I meant new thread


  • #9
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    Hi All -

    I have a question that I have been pondering for a while........

    I'm looking at possibly purchasing a brand new PVM 20M2E

    I've read & researched quite extensively on the net about PVM's and other arcade/broadcast monitors & TV's. I seem to be in the minority that think that PVM's & other monitors of this type have too pronounced scanlines and too fine a dot pitch to produce a picture that is bright and authentic - like the CRT's we used to use with our consoles in the 80's/90's. I want to find a TV for my N64. I've been put off monitors a bit as I feel that a TV feels more authentic for my N64. Also, the picture is pretty blurry on this console & I think that a monitor that is very sharp with strong scanlines would just make the picture look worse....

    I have a Sony trinitron (from the UK so it has RGB scart - my N64 is RGB modded too) I've always loved these TV's but can't seem to find one with good geometry - I am waiting for a new one to pop up on eBay. I've heard, though, that even these Sony's TV's have more pronounced scanlines than other TV's -

    Does anyone know of any CRT TV's of this size that are as high quality as the Sony that has less pronounced scanlines?

    My problem is that I really like a 25 inch screen for the immersion but at 25 inches, the scanlines are quite obvious on my Sony KV-25X5U......


  • #10
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Moved to main A&R Forum

    Mods - Thread is slightly messed up because it was originally created as a response to an unrelated thread, OP then created a new thread but in the marketplace instead of here. I had to merge the posts from the first thread, into the new one which was created later.

    Users - beginning post is technically post #9


  • #11
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,246 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I always thought my Trinitron had a 16:9 wide screen mode. It automatically boots to that mode whenever an RGB signal is detected.

    So the first thing I do when booting a console is switch it over to 4:3 mode. Lovely scanlines then appear. The image also then takes up the whole screen (widescreen bars vanish)

    Just realized, I don't think it's actually widescreen but is in fact this 'vertical compression' thing.

    It looks like it's taking out the blank scanlines so that you're just left with a solid 'higher res' image.

    The bars and the top and the bottom aren't widescreen bars, they're what's left over when the blank data is removed.


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  • #12
    andykara2003
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭andykara2003


    That's interesting, mine does that too - but the image is also squashed vertically. It would be great if instead of that, each line of resolution got 1.5 times thicker. This wouldn't be like linedoubling, i.e. without scanlines at all, which I hate, but the scanlines would be thinner and less noticeable. Obviously this is all impossible though.

    An amazing solution Fudoh had was to instead of using the Sony PVM monitors or consumer TV, use the Sony PGM monitors which take 31Khz or 480p. Then use a low latency line doubler and a slg3000 scan line generator between the console and the monitor. Then you can have complete control over the scanline density. I guess you're not getting a genuine 'authentic' picture though.


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