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Skatepark costing

  • 10-07-2003 1:25pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭


    Heres the text of a mail I've just sent to Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Councils in regard to the gross over estimation of costs in the feasability study carried out by Fingal coco.

    "In the interests of forwarding the goal of providing Dublin with public skatepark facilities as allready provided in both Waterford and Galway, I would like to draw your attention to the following.
    Last year Fingal county council produced a feasability study on the provision of skateparks BSA/308/02 13/06 (http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/2002/Bsa/0613/BSA20020308.htm ).
    In this document the estimated total cost of providing and running a skatepark for one year was deemed to be 437,915 euro. I believe this figure is far in excess of the real cost and can only discourage councils from proceeding with plans for these much needed facilities.I would like to point out the following over-estimations.
    First aid/supervisors station € 40,000
    In Waterford skatepark a simple wooden garden shed is used as the supervisors station and proves to be perfectly adequate ,as the facility is outdoors and cannot be used in wet weather and any serious injuries ( other than cuts and grazes) should be directed to the local hospital I cannot see the need for a station costing 40'000 euro.
    Skatepark equipment,
    1 No. 1.5m half pipe

    1 No. 1.8m starter platform

    1 No. 1.8m quarter pipe

    1 No. 2 level quarter pipe

    2 No. 3m ollie box

    2 No. 4m curb

    1 No. 1m ramp

    1 No. fun box – slide, rail, curb

    95,275 euro

    I have recieved 3 quotes in all for the supply of the above equipment

    one from Five-O skateramps http://www.fiveoskateboarding.com for

    35,000 euro

    and two from Rhino ramps http://www.rhino-ramps.com of Belgium distributed through Wooden Delights Ltd of Galway http://www.woodendelights.ie

    for 43,409 euro (3.66m wide ramps)

    and 53,015 euro (4.88m wide ramps)

    Both of these companies produce very high quality equipment to the highest safety certification (Rospa and TUV) .All their equipment is fire / weather and vandalproof and utilises the latest materials including Skatelite tm surface material. I fail to see how the above list of equipment could cost as much as twice the above quotes unless it is to be constructed in concrete and even at that it's still way overpriced.

    As regards supervision of the facility the document states " The Councils insurers have stated that to supervise the facility and to inspect boards and safety equipment adequately there must be trained supervisor/inspector for every 6 participants"

    and then later states "It should be noted that the insurers may demand a level of supervision equivalent to that required at creches which is one supervisor per 7-9 children. This would increase the cost of running the facility quite considerably".

    If they currently demand 1 supervisor per 6 participants but may reduce this to 1 supervisor per 7-9 participants how would this reduce running costs !?

    Irish Public Bodies Mutual Insurance provide the insurance for Waterford skatepark and do not make such stipulations as regards supervisor - participant ratio there why should they apply such in skateparks in Dublin. One supervisor is employed there and the park runs perfectly well , the average skateboarder is a 14yr old male and does not require the level of supervision present in a creche.

    Repairs € 25,000

    The cost of repairs is in fact nill as the maintenance contract including weekly inspections is included in the cost of supply of the equipment ( five-O skateramps ).

    Thus the real cost of running a skatepark for a year including the provision of a 100,000 excess fund would be in the region of euro to 182,000 to 200,015 euro depending on the equipment supplier.

    A saving of between 237,900 euro and 255,915 euro !!

    Waterford in fact supplied their park for 100,000 euro .

    The only skatepark I have ever heard of that cost the kind of money quoted in this feasability study is Ulladulla skatepark in Canberra Australia, the biggest concrete park in Australia at about the size of 2 football pitchs !

    If figures like half million euro for a small skatepark are put forward to interested councils then Dublin will remain without a skatepark for another 30 years.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭TacT


    We need to get a lot of people sending e-mail to let them know we are all aware of the ACTUAL costs and what is needed to run the places as opposed to some stupid departments "projected funding/spending for provision of a skatepark"

    I think if we can raise money through one or two fundraising events and put this forward to them as well, they cannot refuse!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    You never mentioned the cost of the land needed for the skatepark.

    But good luck anyway i may be older but i can still Ollie about 2 feet on a flat Barbie board :)


    kdjac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Yeah, it's typical of the Irish way of doing things. Costs are overinflated, and if it's cheaper, they find ways to spend the excess.

    Land is something not factored in. But it shoudl be possible to get a hold of an adequate barn in the middle of nowhere for 100 grand. There'd be no point in having it near Dublin, or renting. Too much cost.

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭shag


    If the council are building it they'll be building on land they allready own no doubt. If the ISF are building it then hopefully we can buy the land cheap from the council seeing as we are doing their job for them! See my first post on insurance for more on this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 twitchy


    I don't understand how in England they can build council parks that are free to skate anytime without supervision and they can't do it here. I went to Dev Green in Sheffield last summer and there is no fence, or staff to pay wages to. Britain's not too far behind us when it comes to compo culture, and they've got a rake of free parks. How come they can do it and we can't?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭AdMMM


    The skate-park (if you could call it that) in Waterford is an example of total cost-cutting. They got the cheapest ramps, pipes and put in on a miniscule piece of land that can only handle about 15 people at a time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭shag


    Waterford is more a case of wasting large amounts of cash than cost cutting. Just because you throw a load of money into it doesn't mean you'll get a good skatepark. The park cost €100'000 for that kind of moey they shouldve got a 16ft wide spine ramp and a street course 4 times the size!
    The company who built waterford are non skater run and charged 3 times what it should have cost with one of the worst designs of modular parks I've skated.
    What we have to concentrate on now is getting real skaters involved in the design process and making sure this doesn't happen again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Lord Nikon


    A skatepark right outside Dublin Corpo. building is an ideal location. .. Can i bring my BMX..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭hipchick


    The reason skateparks would cost so much in this country is because as always we are following the American's in becoming a Sue nation.....

    if you fall and its your own fault (as a lot of people out there are clumsey myself included) the first thing that comes into peoples head is "wonder how much i'd get for that" a lot of irish people are making claims to keep them..... We work they sit at home and see where there next claim is going to come from...

    So like it or not that is pushing the price of everything up to the skies.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Lord Nikon


    I know exactly what you mean


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    The reason skateparks would cost so much in this country is because as always we are following the American's in becoming a Sue nation.....
    so true. but its more than this. its also got a lot to do with the amount of cash paid out for these claims. i remember a friend who was expecting 4 grand from a claim got 7 and a half. we were shocked. (and he was well chuffed)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭hipchick


    Well thats down to the government yet again they need to curb the payouts..England have a set payout for an injury and this should be the way it goes over here but as always the poor irish government don't know their ar** from their elbow....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭SeanPuddin


    yeah...

    in england for a broken leg or arm, you can only get a maximum payout. Even if you die, a certain amount of compensation can't be exceeded. Over here €20,000 for shock is common. Until this compensation culture in ireland disappears, skateparks will have to continue closing their doors...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭hipchick


    I think we should start a petition to demand that OUR government do what the public wants.......

    Any hints for a small mobile skatepark???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Originally posted by hipchick

    Any hints for a small mobile skatepark???
    mobile skatepark?! how would that work?

    i suppose you could make the ramps/boxes/etc all in a modular fashion that allowed for the park to not only be assembled into a park but mayby assembled into boxes suitable for transporting. if ye catch what i mean...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭hipchick


    Yes exactely what i was thinking...its not going to be a monster park just enough for a few kids to skate, there are no facilities where i live so have to try something...
    Have all the plans, going to put fold-up and lock wheels and also trying to get them to fold so you don't need a van to carry them around...

    Think it will work am in the process of making them now for xmas


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭hipchick


    Just to let you now the ramps turned out really well, my little boy will be over the moon when he sees them...

    Anyway just want to wish you all a very happy xmas, hope you all have good one!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    hipchick-> can u post some pics of your new park?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    the problem with a publicly funded skatepark is security. like all public access sites in ireland, security is an issue and you don't want scummers coming in and spraying "johnner waz here 2004" or "sk8erz iz ghey" or whatever all over the place. surely this kind of stuff comes into the cost too..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    i lived in germany for a while and there was a skate/bmx park in the area. first off the park was built and maintained by the people who use it. secondly, they all did really good pieces of graffiti all over the park themselves.

    i thought it was really great. basically all the local lads chipped in to build the place and look after it. no one would vandalize it cos they all helped to make it. also, i wonder would johnny soapbar really spray/write over a really good piece of artwork that a few lads would have made?

    probably would but if he was caught he would be walking down the road with three shoes....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 Danilo


    Yea, but security is only an issue in certain areas.

    In The Netherlands there are public skateparks everywhere. And guess what, if you fall it's your own damn problem!!

    If you fall walking down the street and hurt yourself, then try to sue the town council, they laugh at you! People don't sue each other over there. Simple as that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Originally posted by Danilo
    Yea, but security is only an issue in certain areas.

    In The Netherlands there are public skateparks everywhere. And guess what, if you fall it's your own damn problem!!

    If you fall walking down the street and hurt yourself, then try to sue the town council, they laugh at you! People don't sue each other over there. Simple as that.
    so basically ireland is the only european country where public skateparks cant exist. man that sucks...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭LemmingBoy


    Its the oppasite of france I WANT TO SKATE


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭lobsterstag


    Nice one Shag, you the same guy from sidewalk board? Ireland is too greedy and i cant help but think that if the green party or someone like that were in power we might have a better chance, i will send one to that address aswell


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭SeanPuddin


    politicains are all bent bastards...sure we'll build you a park...once you vote us of course.

    write some letters to politicians, and i guarantee you get a positive response, but getting something done is a different story!
    peace out...keep up the fight


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Originally posted by SeanPuddin
    politicains are all bent bastards...sure we'll build you a park...once you vote us of course.

    write some letters to politicians, and i guarantee you get a positive response, but getting something done is a different story!
    peace out...keep up the fight
    i guess the questions that we should be asking them is how would they get around the insurance difficulties with building a free, public skatepark. im sure if you put them on the spot they woulnt be able to give a proper answer and just fob ye off.

    afaik there is a park being built in lucan. this was promised by a ff politician. actually, anyone got any info on this one?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭kazaam


    NO 1.5m half pipe
    a death box
    3 sided funbox built into the wall
    4 foot roll in
    a half bowl
    and a 6 foot mini ramp
    maybe the odd flat rail or flat bank here or there

    a lot cheaper


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,391 ✭✭✭jozi


    Originally posted by Danilo
    Yea, but security is only an issue in certain areas.

    In The Netherlands there are public skateparks everywhere. And guess what, if you fall it's your own damn problem!!

    If you fall walking down the street and hurt yourself, then try to sue the town council, they laugh at you! People don't sue each other over there. Simple as that.


    Totaly agree.
    When i lived there i never taught of sue-ing anyone and neither did any of my friends here it a totaly different case, i still dont think of sue-ing if i fall.
    It's my faulth if i fall

    Jozi


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Originally posted by Danilo
    Yea, but security is only an issue in certain areas.

    In The Netherlands there are public skateparks everywhere. And guess what, if you fall it's your own damn problem!!

    If you fall walking down the street and hurt yourself, then try to sue the town council, they laugh at you! People don't sue each other over there. Simple as that.
    I guess that soon enough we will probably have a society much like that of the US where you can sue a fast food company because you have a fat arse!

    But how is it that Ireland is like this and the rest of Europe is not!? There is a beautiful skatepark where I am at the moment. No supervision, no vandalism, no crusties, no bull whatsoever.

    Is Ireland really all that different that the rest of Europe? And why??

    Even more important is how can we change this???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Time Man


    SO what if they paint on your ramp, ever seen a skate vid? All the hips and bowls are painted. Jeez, get a life already
    Originally posted by projectmayhem
    the problem with a publicly funded skatepark is security. like all public access sites in ireland, security is an issue and you don't want scummers coming in and spraying "johnner waz here 2004" or "sk8erz iz ghey" or whatever all over the place. surely this kind of stuff comes into the cost too..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Anybody got any news bout the proposed skate park in Lucan??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭sci0x


    "Lucan has got the go ahead for a park! A meeting was held in the sports centre which will be the probable site for the park. There will be a further meeting soon where skaters can influence the design of the park"
    .. News from this site. They might update when they get further info.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭smois


    sci0x wrote:
    "Lucan has got the go ahead for a park! A meeting was held in the sports centre which will be the probable site for the park. There will be a further meeting soon where skaters can influence the design of the park"
    .. News from this site. They might update when they get further info.
    lucan skatepark should be built by june/july 2005 or 2006. not too sure on da 2006 thing :cool: :cool: :):)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭limerick_man


    Limerick still is campaining to get a chunk of that 1.5million euro the gov. are giving out for the building of skateparks!

    Limerick host the Munster championships without a permanent skate park and we have a skaters action group (or something along that line) who do demenstrations for the park!

    Skating is already generating some revenue into the city... so why cant we have a proper skate park?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭asto


    yeah Lucan is to have a skate park built by july 2005 for full details check out


    http://www.geocities.com/irishskateparkforum/news.html

    This is great news for skaters in Dublin If you have any queries just post them i will cgeck here every day to answer Thank You


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭asto


    Shag is that you From The Irish Skate Park Forum?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 prospe


    hi, i arrived in ireland 2 months ago , i'm spanish and i went here to skate ,improve my english and earn some money...
    But, there isn't any decent skatepark anywhere...
    i'm actually living in Cork and i'm looking for all the good spots and skateshops in Ireland ,i would like to introduce here a spanish new brand so iif it's possible i would like to know all the places and skateshops of the country.
    i'm thinking about going in a few weeks to killarney or limmerik so can you reply me here listing the limmerik's and killarney's skateshops and spots???

    thanks you very much and i hope we will take a ride together in a not very far future.

    Jose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 crazy_lizard


    does someone MOUNTAINBOARDING????????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭lifesgood


    theres a new skatepark in ballincollig in cork aswell dont know if theres shop in cork though do a search for a thread called ballincolig skatepark nd youl see a picture of it its pretty good,limerick are getting a skatepark too i think www.goreyskateclub.com it has a list of all the skateparks in ireland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭gobby


    Wow... Old thread!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭lifesgood


    gobby wrote:
    so basically ireland is the only european country where public skateparks cant exist. man that sucks...

    gobby they obviously can exist in ireland because they already do exist! lucan bushy swords greystones galway waterford blanch and much more when there all finished there will be 21 new public skateparks in ireland.

    americans sue a hell of alot more than irish how come they have so many parks. privately owned parks will still always be better because every one knows the owners for example ramp n rail never got sued cos nobody would ever make a claim against them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 139 ✭✭Rancidmaniac13


    Didn't Ramp'n'Rail close down because of insurance problems?

    Isn't it just that private skateparks make you sign a disclaimer or waiver or whatever before you skate?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭gillyfromlyre


    My first cousin Quinten from Portland, Oregon, couldn't believe the lack of skating amenities in Ireland and the cost involved in maintaining the existing ones. He also noticed the lack of community spirit among boarders here, insurance etc. He told me a story about his friend Jeffrey who got impaled on a 4 ft metal spike in a park over there, there was literally a metal spike sticking up from the ground beside a skateboard ramp. Jeffrey survived the incident, the spike somehow missed all his vital organs, but he never thought of suing, makes you think


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 Warrenmac


    well i know there is a rescession on but why can we write to the major companys such as DC VANS and the many others us skaters buy millions worth of there brands a year.Why not ask them to sponser state parks which they can advertise there brands by sticking there names all over it.Im sure if you get a skate park id and many other guys would pay for safety training and volenteer there time for free to manage the skate parks.also you can have people to sign a liabity waiver to give up the rights or there kids rights to sue as there using the skatepark at there own risk.the government are assholes.they rather spend 10 million on the dublin eye for tourist but not a few million on building skateparks for the kids who want to be off the streets but are forced to hang around on them becuase they have nowhere else to skate.if i won the euromillions tonight you be sure ireland would be getting the best and biggest skatepark in the world but saying that it aint going to happen.ha sorry this was abit off a rant but i hope people like some of my ideas.
    thanks
    warren


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