Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Tenant Refusing To Pay Rent * MOD WARNING IN POST #1 *

Options
  • 14-01-2021 8:34am
    #1
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I have a tenant who has refused to pay rent and is abusing the fact that I can't evict him due to emergency Covid rules on eviction.

    He hasn't applied for HAP, I presume because he would not be eligible.

    Is there anything at all that can be done?

    I use an agent to deal with him but they are useless enough in general.

    Thanks



    Mod Warning

    Any suggestions of illegal actions/eviction will result in an infraction/ban without warning.


«134567

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I presume you have issued a notice of arrears and opened a dispute with the RTB? Get the groundwork done for immediate notice of eviction when restrictions lifted.

    And if you can get a good price, sell.


  • Options
    #3
    costacorta
    Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭costacorta


    Contact all the SF and PBP TDs , They are the ones who encourage non payments of rent as according to them nobody should be evicted from a property.


  • Options
    #4
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    costacorta wrote: »
    Contact all the SF and PBP TDs , They are the ones who encourage non payments of rent as according to them nobody should be evicted from a property.

    Expect them to smile smugly when you do that.


  • Options
    #5
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Is there anything at all that can be done?

    Bend over and take it for the next 18-24 months.


  • Options
    #6
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭DubCount


    OP. Sadly there is not a lot you can do. If you evict the tenant illegally, you face a massive fine from the RTB, and the tenancy being re-instated. Your only legal option is to seek a legal eviction via the RTB (and then the courts when that is finished). Maybe speak to a solicitor to make sure you cant start the RTB process immediately. When you finally manage to evict this tenant (and eventually you will), you can bring them to court for the amount they owe you, and the court order will be so meaningless it wont be worth your while. One possibility might be to negotiate an exit with your tenant where you pay them to leave - though that is a dangerous track to take - again talk to a solicitor.

    Anyone wondering why Landlords are selling up while rents are at record high levels - read this thread.

    Anyone considering being a landlord - read this thread.

    Anyone seeking a ban on evictions..... you get the idea.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Blanco100
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    What happens if you need to evict someone because you need to move into the house yourself with your own family?


  • Options
    #8
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Blanco100 wrote: »
    What happens if you need to evict someone because you need to move into the house yourself with your own family?

    Simple - you become homeless while your non-paying tenant stays in the house you are paying a mortgage on.


  • Options
    #9
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,897 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I presume you have issued a notice of arrears and opened a dispute with the RTB? Get the groundwork done for immediate notice of eviction when restrictions lifted.

    And if you can get a good price, sell.

    Tenant eviction restrictions are lifted on the 10th Feb:
    In October 2020, an eviction ban was introduced for any period when people’s movement is restricted to 5 kilometres from their home as part of COVID-19 restrictions. This means that tenants cannot be evicted when the country is at Level 5 of COVID-19 restrictions from 31 December 2020 to 31 January 2021 and for a ten-day grace period after this.

    It would take longer than this to give notice etc, so just start the process and carry out the eviction after that date.


  • Options
    #10
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    move in there and walk around naked. I put put fish in the curtains , turn off the water and cut the electricity. I would make it as uncomfortable as possible for them and see how they like it. No water, no elecy, smells like helll and a naked dude in the kitchen. See how long they last


  • Options
    #11
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have a tenant who has refused to pay rent and is abusing the fact that I can't evict him due to emergency Covid rules on eviction.

    He hasn't applied for HAP, I presume because he would not be eligible.

    Is there anything at all that can be done?

    I use an agent to deal with him but they are useless enough in general.

    Thanks

    Is your agent taking any responsibility for your situation? (Was it the agent that vetted the tenant in the 1st place ?)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,810 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I'd need to know more about the tenant's situation before I would pass opinion/judgement. You say you assume he can't get HAP. Don't just assume. Know.
    A lot of grief can be avoided if both parties just opened their mouths and talked.


  • Options
    #13
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    flazio wrote: »
    I'd need to know more about the tenant's situation before I would pass opinion/judgement. You say you assume he can't get HAP. Don't just assume. Know.
    A lot of grief can be avoided if both parties just opened their mouths and talked.

    Can you give one example of a situation that would excuse the tenant from paying rent.


  • Options
    #14
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    fliball123 wrote: »
    move in there and walk around naked. I put put fish in the curtains , turn off the water and cut the electricity. I would make it as uncomfortable as possible for them and see how they like it. No water, no elecy, smells like helll and a naked dude in the kitchen. See how long they last

    The bit in bold.
    Tenant has the rights. Welcome to good ole Ireland.


  • Options
    #15
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    dalyboy wrote: »
    The bit in bold.
    Tenant has the rights. Welcome to good ole Ireland.

    True well I would go about cutting the elecy and water at the very least. I would be getting stink bombs and throwing them in the letter box. Anything that makes this tenants life as difficult as possible. I would be calling around at 3 in the morning every morning and knocking on the door and then they come down asking for the rent. I would come back at 4 then 5 and just keep going till you exhaust them. They wont have any come back from the PRTB as they are not paying the rent.


  • Options
    #16
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭WhyTheFace


    OP here.

    The agent in general has been pretty useless.

    He had stopped paying before Xmas and was told we were seeking eviction, then he agreed to pay weekly. He paid one week over xmas then stopped.

    I agree with a comment above about opening dialogue directly.

    He told the agent he is going through a divorce in Poland which is using up his money which is possibly bullsh1t but irrelevant none the less.


  • Options
    #17
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Get all the legal steps in place, for sure.

    But also offer him cash to move out. It sucks. But its cheapesr in the long run than to be 18+ months without rent.


  • Options
    #18
    PalLimerick
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    fliball123 wrote: »
    True well I would go about cutting the elecy and water at the very least. I would be getting stink bombs and throwing them in the letter box. Anything that makes this tenants life as difficult as possible. I would be calling around at 3 in the morning every morning and knocking on the door and then they come down asking for the rent. I would come back at 4 then 5 and just keep going till you exhaust them. They wont have any come back from the PRTB as they are not paying the rent.


    Then you would be done for harrasment. And you'd have no authority to cut off water or electricity.


  • Options
    #19
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Offer him a big envelope of cash in exchange for a signature to voluntarily end the lease, all his stuff out and the return of keys.
    Meet him in a public spot with cctv.

    The cash offer should be big enough that he cannot refuse and it will be still smaller then what this will eventually cost you in lost rent and legal fees anyway.

    Then go and change the locks, suck it up and get on with your life.


  • Options
    #20
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    PalLimerick wrote: »
    Then you would be done for harrasment. And you'd have no authority to cut off water or electricity.


    I would get a plumber in on the QT and play dumb, get a sparks in and do the same. A lot of this can be done from outside the property.


  • Options
    #21
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,897 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    fliball123 wrote: »
    True well I would go about cutting the elecy and water at the very least. I would be getting stink bombs and throwing them in the letter box. Anything that makes this tenants life as difficult as possible. I would be calling around at 3 in the morning every morning and knocking on the door and then they come down asking for the rent. I would come back at 4 then 5 and just keep going till you exhaust them. They wont have any come back from the PRTB as they are not paying the rent.

    Sure ya would:rolleyes::rolleyes:
    When are you back to school?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Offer him a big envelope of cash in exchange for a signature to voluntarily end the lease, all his stuff out and the return of keys.
    Meet him in a public spot with cctv.

    The cash offer should be big enough that he cannot refuse and it will be still smaller then what this will eventually cost you in lost rent and legal fees anyway.

    Then go and change the locks, suck it up and get on with your life.

    If landlords make a habit of paying off non-paying tenants it’ll create one hell of a bad precedence. Shake downs will become common place


  • Options
    #23
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Sure ya would:rolleyes::rolleyes:
    When are you back to school?

    same day as your ma :)


  • Options
    #24
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    fliball123, thread banned. Do not post in this thread again.


  • Options
    #25
    WhyTheFace
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭WhyTheFace


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Get all the legal steps in place, for sure.

    But also offer him cash to move out. It sucks. But its cheapesr in the long run than to be 18+ months without rent.

    Why 18 months?

    Would it not be 5-6 weeks after the eviction ban has been lifted assuming we act asap?


  • Options
    #26
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    If he's engaging with you then work with him but make it clear that you will have to evict him if he messes you about. If he's working he pays, if he's getting divorced he still has to be able to pay his bill no court is going to make him homeless for his ex that would be counterproductive.

    Don't do this on your own there are template form on the RTB site but one mistake and you could be in trouble use a solicitor.

    Don't do anything heavy handed, he could seek compensation or simply trash the place and vanish.

    I manage a place for my mother, it was my dad's till he passed away. As soon a the pandemic hit two of the tenants lost their jobs, I worked with them to apply for rent allowance, I was expecting HAP but SW steered towards rent allowance. One got it one didn't for some reason (it may have been resolved), neither of them have missed a rent payment or messed me about. Both are back working.


  • Options
    #27
    Pinoy adventure
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Pinoy adventure


    Op what a pain in the rear.
    Speak with them directly


  • Options
    #28
    Evd-Burner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭Evd-Burner


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Offer him a big envelope of cash in exchange for a signature to voluntarily end the lease, all his stuff out and the return of keys.
    Meet him in a public spot with cctv.

    The cash offer should be big enough that he cannot refuse and it will be still smaller then what this will eventually cost you in lost rent and legal fees anyway.

    Then go and change the locks, suck it up and get on with your life.

    This here I think is the best option to get it done and over with as soon as you can without it costing you 10s of thousands.


  • Options
    #29
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭DubCount


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Why 18 months?

    Would it not be 5-6 weeks after the eviction ban has been lifted assuming we act asap?

    The eviction notice you issue is likely to be ignored. After that you need to lodge a case with the RTB. They will set a date. Your tenant will be washing their hair that date. You get another date. You win the case. Your tenant appeals. You get another date. Your tenant is washing hair again. You get another date. You win the appeal. You then bring a court case for an eviction. You wait for a court date. You win the court case and get a court order which will not be immediate but will have a notice period. You then engage the bailiffs to actually evict the tenant and hopefully they wont have wrecked the place in the mean time.

    End to end if you have a tenant who plays the system - 18 months is not far off.


  • Options
    #30
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Tenants that loose their jobs as a result of covid are moved to rent allowance as it is used for short term not long term as with Hap.

    Non payment of rent and delay is why many landlords are leaving in droves. This dogooders give incorrect information and tenant think they can stay without consequences.

    Due to covid there is now a 10 stage for this situation. Crazy I know but you could end up paying a fine and then compensation to the non paying tenant.You can give you tenant notice warning of non payments. The clock starts from the 10th jan so you can give notice now. Have a read of the following link and use the templates on the website. Go back through your records and if the tenant needed something repaired that you got done to show you are a good landlord.

    https://www.rtb.ie/emergency-measures-ended-new-protections-introduced-for-the-rental-sector/dealing-with-rent-arrears-after-the-emergency-period

    Rtb have stated if a tenant stops paying rent, you have to complete a self declaration giving details why you cannot support the non paying tenant. Register your complaint as soon as possible and complete your self declaration before your tenant does. Supposedly to speed up the process.
    Keep records of all communications. Make sure you use swift post postal service, or note from post office that you posted the letter with warning of late rent to your tenant or you take a picture of putting the letter in the letter box.

    Just to prepare you If you agree to take part payments your tenant will mess you around and you will have to start the whole process all over agin.
    Have a solicitor that has been through the Rtb process to hand.

    Your agent has not done you any favours. Put your complaint in writing and ask why they have not contacted the tenant. You need to contact them and tell them you are paying a fee to them to provide a service they arse not doing. If they are connected to a body like Ipav. They would not want a complaint due to a risk of a fine or removal of registration.

    Wish you luck with this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    costacorta wrote: »
    Contact all the SF and PBP TDs , They are the ones who encourage non payments of rent as according to them nobody should be evicted from a property.

    what for ? , a laugh

    you do realise that PBP object to the very concept of private property , never mind the renting out of property for profit


Advertisement