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Changing Religion

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  • 19-07-2012 6:31pm
    #1
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭


    Hi, would there ever be an occasion when a church of Ireland man would have changed his religion to RC when marrying a RC woman in the late 1800's?


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    #2
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Of course. Religious affiliation might have been important to her and her family, and not that important to him. Or the Parish Priest might have been a dominant character, and have coerced the groom.


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    #3
    rhapsody
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭rhapsody


    Yes indeed, my great great grandfather converted to Catholicism in order to marry my g.g grandmother in 1897. Their grandchildren tell me he studied catechism etc for about 6 months before he could be married. Apparently he was always very religious after that, but wasn't before. He was English/ Welsh so not too sure what he religion converted from.

    Having looked at parish records for various parts of the country, I've seen priests noting down when an adult was baptised/ converted, often shortly before/ on the day of their wedding.


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    #4
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    My paternal grandmother was from a wealthy, Episcopalian family whose father was in the Orange Order (in Hamilton, Ontario) who converted to Catholicism before marrying my grandfather, who was in the AOH (also Hamilton). Love across the divide! :)


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    #5
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Yes indeed, somewhere along the line our family switched from Presbyterian to RC. But there's little to none religion left in my immediate family.


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    #6
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    My gt gt grandfather was born a Roman Catholic and married (1847) his first wife in a C of I church as she was a Protestant. She died about two years later and he then married a sister of his first wife - again in a C of I church. According to the 1901 census, some of the children were C of I while some were RC. However, in the 1901 census he states that he is Roman Catholic.


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    #7
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    odds_on wrote: »
    My gt gt grandfather was born a Roman Catholic and married (1847) his first wife in a C of I church as she was a Protestant. She died about two years later and he then married a sister of his first wife - again in a C of I church. According to the 1901 census, some of the children were C of I while some were RC. However, in the 1901 census he states that he is Roman Catholic.

    I think he would of course state he is a RC. He got married in CoI churches, but he didn't convert. Am wondering though if the RC would have considered that he was not in fact married unless he was married in a RC church? Anyone know about that? Bringing up the children in both faiths is not uncommon, I have heard about it before, and I know a family who did just that.


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    #8
    annieoburns
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭annieoburns


    The RC religion would not consider a marriage in a non RC church a proper sacrament so not married in eyes of RC religion but both ceremonies counted as a civil marriage. It would have been traditional for boys to follow the father's religion and the girls the mothers. There was a ruling brought in about 1905 (?) called Ne Temere that required the non RC spouse to rear all children in catholic faith.


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    #9
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    annieoburns wrote: »
    The RC religion would not consider a marriage in a non RC church a proper sacrament so not married in eyes of RC religion but both ceremonies counted as a civil marriage. It would have been traditional for boys to follow the father's religion and the girls the mothers. There was a ruling brought in about 1905 (?) called Ne Temere that required the non RC spouse to rear all children in catholic faith.

    Wasn't there some kind of boycott in Ireland against a family because of this ruling, quite an infamous case? I can't recall the details and I tried a quick search but can't find anything.


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    #10
    annieoburns
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭annieoburns


    Yes mid 50's.. made into a film and a book. Located in Co Wexford. Protestant mother objected to pressure put on her to send kids to RC school. But 100 years of enmity bet faiths churned up so more to it than the one incident.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethard-on-Sea_boycott


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    #11
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Another religious story from my family tree.........

    Martha Cross married Anthony Toomey in about 1769. He was a Roman Catholic and she was a Protestant. Shortly after they married she became pregnant and he went to work for the East India Company, Bombay, India. She could not go with him straight away so she was going to wait until the baby was born and then she would join him over in India. Shortly after the birth of her son, Mark, she received a letter saying he had died of yellow fever. He also received a letter saying that his wife and child had died in child-birth.

    She found herself a job as a housekeeper to Mr Purcell of Athy, Ireland. He always invited the Colonel and the Officers of every new regiment stationed in Athy to dinner. He was a self-made man and liked to impress them. Martha used to assist in the entertainment as he did not understand etiquette. On one of these occasions she was talking to an officer who had served in India and she mentioned that her late husband had gone to India. He told her there was an Anthony Toomey who was a surgeon in Bombay. From this information she made enquiries and she found out that he was still alive and that he had been told that she had died in childbirth. They realised a cruel trick had been played on them and he immediately made arrangements to return to Ireland to see them. Unfortunately he died exactly a month before he was due to set sail.


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    #12
    annieoburns
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭annieoburns


    Thank you for sharing that .... quite a gem. And not to be gleaned from assembling the raw data that makes up a family tree ... just a skeleton to be clothed with such extra details. Well done.


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    #13
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Elizabetha


    Thanks for all the input, I didnt know any of that at all, a great help


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    #14
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    odds_on wrote: »
    Another religious story from my family tree.........

    Martha Cross married Anthony Toomey in about 1769. He was a Roman Catholic and she was a Protestant. Shortly after they married she became pregnant and he went to work for the East India Company, Bombay, India. She could not go with him straight away so she was going to wait until the baby was born and then she would join him over in India. Shortly after the birth of her son, Mark, she received a letter saying he had died of yellow fever. He also received a letter saying that his wife and child had died in child-birth.

    She found herself a job as a housekeeper to Mr Purcell of Athy, Ireland. He always invited the Colonel and the Officers of every new regiment stationed in Athy to dinner. He was a self-made man and liked to impress them. Martha used to assist in the entertainment as he did not understand etiquette. On one of these occasions she was talking to an officer who had served in India and she mentioned that her late husband had gone to India. He told her there was an Anthony Toomey who was a surgeon in Bombay. From this information she made enquiries and she found out that he was still alive and that he had been told that she had died in childbirth. They realised a cruel trick had been played on them and he immediately made arrangements to return to Ireland to see them. Unfortunately he died exactly a month before he was due to set sail.

    That is quite a story. Any idea on the motive behind the 'cruel trick'?


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    #15
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    In the family history, it is believed that Anthony Toomey had a sister who was a Nun and that it was by her hand that the deception was orchestrated. However, I have never found any proof of this theory and do not know who Anthony's parents are.


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    #16
    Ellsbells
    Closed Accounts Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Ellsbells


    Yep my great (x4) grandfather converted to marry.... He then ran off with the housemaid but thats a different story :)


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    #17
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    I've just come across two brother's, both baptized in St Peter's Church (C of I) Dublin, Ireland. One married a great aunt while the other, was baptized into the RC church, 14th Nov 1900, the same day he married a Roman catholic girl.

    Unfortunately, I can't trace the existence of either family beyond the 1911 Census.


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    #18
    annieoburns
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭annieoburns


    Re Your brothers after 1911.

    You could check War Graves Commission website to see if they ended up as soldiers and died. Or maybe emigrated to USA/Canada/Australia. Ships records on Ancestry.com but you have to be subscriber to see details to identify. American censuses now available up to 1940. For Ireland there would be Thom's directories for main towns and voters lists that can be checked. Newspaper notice for a death?


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    #19
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Thanks, annieoburns. I think I have just traced several generations in England. I even got an email of one of them so have just sent it off to check.

    I have also just discovered that one of the brothers was killed in WW I; actually, he is the ancestor of the line I have emailed, and brother-in-law of my grandfather.


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    #20
    gillybean
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭gillybean


    Yes my grandfather was born COI and changed to Catholicism to marry my grandmother. His family disowned him and he never saw them again.


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    #21
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    gillybean wrote: »
    Yes my grandfather was born COI and changed to Catholicism to marry my grandmother. His family disowned him and he never saw them again.

    I have within my family tree an "Anglican" or Established Church, i.e. later, the Church of Ireland, who disowned one of his sons for changing to a follower of Charles Wesley.


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    #22
    gillybean
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭gillybean


    odds_on wrote: »
    I have within my family tree an "Anglican" or Established Church, i.e. later, the Church of Ireland, who disowned one of his sons for changing to a follower of Charles Wesley.

    My grandfather was Patrick Davis. Any relation?


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    #23
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    gillybean wrote: »
    My grandfather was Patrick Davis. Any relation?
    Sorry, but No.


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