Tired of our society, government and taxation system

Paramite Pie · 22-09-2015 7:47pm

One More Toy wrote: »

188 squid a week for doing bugger all, at 30K a year, once my rent is gone and bills are paid, id be glad to have 188 quid a week left

€188 a week is €9,776 a year.

I'm not on the dole right now but when i was, I paid 80/wk for rent and the remaining €100 ish was for groceries and bills.

It seems the Middle Class still cling to their myths about rent allowance and so on. The terms for rent allowance are;

You were living in private rented accommodation for at least 6 months (183 days) of the last 12 months, You must be able to show that you could afford the rent at the beginning of your tenancy and you are unable to continue to pay the rent because of a substantial change in your circumstances which occurred after you started renting.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

So if you had a job and we're living within your means and then you lost that job/other unforeseen crisis, you can get rent allowance/supplement if the dole doesn't go far enough. Part time unemployed can also avail of the rent supplement too if they meet the criteria.

Maximum rent allowance is €55 for a single adult, €60 for a couple -- ie NOT YOUR ENTIRE RENT!! Your rent must not cost more than these rent guidelines to prove your are within your means;

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Maximum-Rent-Limits-by-County.aspx

I can understand your anger at your high taxes but can we finally drop these welfare myths now please??

pmasterson95 · 22-09-2015 7:47pm

One More Toy wrote: »

The grant is very comfortable.

At 5 grand (more in some cases) iI had to work roughly 550 hoursminimum wage just to catch up. That's 550 more hours those with a grant get to relax. Seems you need to do a bit more thinking before posting as if you know it all

are you aware fees have been increasing? What you paid in fees was less than what it costs now. Your experience is irrelevant due to the increased costs. You would need to work even more hours. Furthermore without the grant many people wouldnt be able to afford college. Not if they are to be completing their assignments/studying. You seem to think that if you are not earning PAYE you must be doing nothing and relaxing. You also believe those on a grant spend all their free time relaxing. Neither of which is true and is quite stupid to claim. I definitely dont claim to know it all, but certainly know more than some people who are here preaching ****.

pmasterson95 · 22-09-2015 7:50pm

Paramite Pie wrote: »

€188 a week is €9,776 a year.

I'm not on the dole right now but when i was, I paid 80/wk for rent and the remaining €100 ish was for groceries and bills.

It seems the Middle Class still cling to their myths about rent allowance and so on. The terms for rent allowance are;

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

So if you had a job and we're living within your means and then you lost that job/other unforeseen crisis, you can get rent allowance/supplement if the dole doesn't go far enough. Part time unemployed can also avail of the rent supplement if they meet the criteria.

Maximum rent allowance is €55 for a single adult, €60 for a couple -- ie NOT YOUR ENTIRE RENT!! Your rent must not cost more than these rent guidelines to prove your are within your means;

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Maximum-Rent-Limits-by-County.aspx

I can understand your anger at your high taxes but can we finally drop these welfare myths now please??

One More Toy works in finance. He cant possibly get his maths wrong. He is also middle class and pays his PAYE. He cant be wrong :P

Paramite Pie · 22-09-2015 8:08pm

enricoh wrote: »

Just talking to a lad today whose young fella gets 350 a week on the dole - him the missus n kid. He has another son working in a skilled job n gets 380 a week. Missus n kid also. He had to go to outpatients last week and was told it e100 to be seen to.
He said he was giving the young fella stick about getting a job but now thinks he's dead right

He's getting a lot more than the standard dole in that case, that's for sure. Must be claiming other benefits on top of the dole.

One More Toy wrote: »

Grant as per

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html

is 3025

Along with your fees paid of 2,000-3000

So i was 5,000 behind anyone with a grant

Well if your talking about investing in stocks and working in Finance -- then it probably didn't hold you back, did it? Did your parents pay your fees?

My mam was working two part-time jobs (cleaning) just to keep the family afloat. My grant in college was 1200, not 3025 (but i knew people who got up to 4,000). It's not just based on income but also distance, travel expenses etc... We lived near the college and I stayed at home. (this was 2007/8)

Clandestine · 22-09-2015 8:10pm

There'd be less people drawing welfare if the government stopped putting up barriers for people to work (minimum wage etc.). I can only imagine how things would be if the AAA or Socialist party got a lot of seats in government (but thankfully that'd never happen)

One More Toy · 22-09-2015 9:09pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

are you aware fees have been increasing? What you paid in fees was less than what it costs now. Your experience is irrelevant due to the increased costs. You would need to work even more hours. Furthermore without the grant many people wouldnt be able to afford college. Not if they are to be completing their assignments/studying. You seem to think that if you are not earning PAYE you must be doing nothing and relaxing. You also believe those on a grant spend all their free time relaxing. Neither of which is true and is quite stupid to claim. I definitely dont claim to know it all, but certainly know more than some people who are here preaching ****.

You get all your fees paid for, again, please research before making a point, otherwise it makes for a very one sided debate

One More Toy · 22-09-2015 9:10pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm working 3 jobs and on pulling in a nice six figure salary BUT I'll give it up to move back to Ireland in a few years. It's great to come make this money since, as I think you pointed out. Back in Ireland it's nearly impossible for people in my generation to save for their own home. That's important to me..not because of some obsession with owning...I want security of not having to pay rent every month. I can get that with a home with no mortgage or at least a very low mortgage..that's the plan.

But I'm still fine with living in Ireland with the way the social welfare is....

Also re: it's not gambling.....that's what Poker players say too.

I don't work in Finance but as somebody who has invested and is managing their money, I have my own take on things.

My dad is still saying "it's not my fault, everybody was investing in property. It was meant to be a sound investment"

If you're investing in US stocks and tomorrow the US dollar gets bumped as the Universal currency for trade. How will that look for you? It's a risk I'm aware of since I want to move home and to do that, I need the dollar to at least maintain what it's at now. For the last few months, the dollar has consistently fluctuated with the performance of the economy...I'm not in finance but to me that's out of the ordinary for it to be so closely aligned..each bump in the road is a bump in the road for the dollar.

I get the feeling this house of cards could be ready to topple any day now.

Also, take into account that automation is coming in rapidly. Those companies value will go up initially but if something drastic doesn't occur there will be massive, massive unemployment. It's estimated that the true rate of unemployment in the US is already 11.5%

What happens when every or most Taxi Drivers, Garbage Men, Bus Drivers, Truck Drivers, Tellers, Secretaries, HR reps etc. etc. etc. etc. lose their jobs. The US is not in any position to deal with it. Most of the top earners (bar maybe Warrant Buffet and Larry Page) don't want to deal with it. Eventually, the money at the top will devalue significantly...particularly if they can't grab a hold of markets in other countries to pro-long their growth.

To me, it looks like a race to the bottom. If you're investing for the next few years..it's a risk. If you're investing for the next 20-30 years of your life, I'd imagine that's a massive risk.

I invest in € $ and £

Over 40 years to retirement i dont care what happens with day to day movements in price and currency

lollsangel · 22-09-2015 9:17pm

Paramite Pie wrote: »

He's getting a lot more than the standard dole in that case, that's for sure. Must be claiming other benefits on top of the dole.

)

188 adult 124.60 Dependant adult and 29.80 child is 342.40...so really not that far off

pmasterson95 · 22-09-2015 9:17pm

One More Toy wrote: »

You get all your fees paid for, again, please research before making a point, otherwise it makes for a very one sided debate

The grant pays for college fees but it does not cover transport costs or food. Are you going to adress your fallacy that all grant recipients relax and do nothing? Or the fact without a grant 100s couldnt attend college? You should try and read things babe. Otherwise you appear illiterate and childish when you cherry pick the easy parts and ignore the awkward points. Altho being middle class I would have thought you were capable of reading. Alas no. Although once again your bull**** is not suprising. You're consistent at least babe.

pmasterson95 · 22-09-2015 9:18pm

One More Toy wrote: »

I invest in € $ and £

Over 40 years to retirement i dont care what happens with day to day movements in price and currency

This says a lot about you hahahaha

NIMAN · 22-09-2015 9:22pm

No matter what country you lived in, you'd find something to moan about.

The grass definitely isn't always greener.

JustTheOne · 22-09-2015 9:30pm

20 billion a year on welfare.

1/3 of our expenditure.

1 in 2 claiming welfare.

2 million with medical cards.

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

Go figure.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-09-2015 9:45pm

One More Toy wrote: »

Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly.

I have no problem with the rich getting rich. It provides incentive - maybe if I work hard I can be like them

188 squid a week for doing bugger all, at 30K a year, once my rent is gone and bills are paid, id be glad to have 188 quid a week left

You're on 30k and and would be glad to have 188 a week left?
You say you're on 41% tax. That's odd. That dosent start until 35k and even then it's 41% of earnings above 35k.

But let's say you are on 30k.
You take home 2100 a month net.
Divided by 4 is 525 a week.
350 odd a week on rent and bills?

The problem is you, if that's the case.

The Dogs Bollix · 22-09-2015 9:52pm

One More Toy wrote: »

I agree. I do genuinely believe that "layabouts" for want of a better word are a minority

However, I feel that I on a modest wage have very little to show for it due to taxation, and its clear i am not the only one.

Where is the incentive to get educated if the tax system will take a large cut to give to those with no aspirations?

I have never seen a grant for anyone at college doing any good, they mostly end up dropping out. Two of my mates milked the system in college, and never finished their course. They are now going back aged 25 as mature students, milking the system again

Milked the system and dropped out?

Have you ever thought that they might have not enjoyed their first course? But force them into a lifetime career of unhappiness because your miserable? Fair play to them for realising what they want to do, many people dont know what to do with their lives. And you call it milking the system. Grow up.

ceadaoin. · 22-09-2015 9:55pm

One More Toy wrote: »

I invest in € $ and £

Over 40 years to retirement i dont care what happens with day to day movements in price and currency

So you've over 40 years to retirement yet you were patronising another poster who you thought was born in 95? By the sounds of it you were born in the 90s yourself. Grow up

Subcomandante Marcos · 22-09-2015 10:03pm

We've just come through a 5 year period where the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of humanity occurred, the super rich got richer, everyone else got poorer, the middle class for raped and the working class and unemployed were savaged and somehow it's poor peoples fault.

The complete lack of knowledge people have around economic systems, the causes of income inequality and the neo-liberal agenda currently being pushed in the global north is ****ing scary to me.

"rabble rabble rabble, welfare spongers, migrants, rabble, taxes" from the idiot masses while libertarian socio-path hedge fund managers and investment bankers lap up the profits from a bipolar financial system they destroyed to their own benefit.

Bio Mech · 22-09-2015 10:08pm

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

You're on 30k and and would be glad to have 188 a week left?
You say you're on 41% tax. That's odd. That dosent start until 35k and even then it's 41% of earnings above 35k.

But let's say you are on 30k.
You take home 2100 a month net.
Divided by 4 is 525 a week.
350 odd a week on rent and bills?

The problem is you, if that's the case.

There is a lot about the op that doesn't add up. Works in "investments" but only earns 30k. Seems low for financial sector.

Pays 41% tax on 30k salary. Hmmm. How is that exactly?

Has no money left after bills and rent but has enough spare money to invest in US stocks and € and $ and £?

Has 40 years to retirement but dismisses the opinions of anyone born on or after 1995?

Something doesn't add up

Bio Mech · 22-09-2015 10:11pm

Also how does a 30k salary make you middle class exactly?

FortySeven · 22-09-2015 10:13pm

Bio Mech wrote: »

Also how does a 30k salary make you middle class exactly?

I'm not sure, where is the cut off again?

I always though it was a state of mind, bugger, I'm working class!

Paramite Pie · 22-09-2015 10:16pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

20 billion a year on welfare.

1/3 of our expenditure.

1 in 2 claiming welfare.

2 million with medical cards.

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

Go figure.

A lot of that is due to the recession. Also remember that child benefit is available to everyone regardless of income and it is counted as welfare in that statistic. Hence it's so high.

While I agree that's very high, in the UK every citizen get's free health care -- we're halfway there.

That being said, we could spend that money so much better.

JustTheOne · 22-09-2015 10:17pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

We've just come through a 5 year period where the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of humanity occurred, the super rich got richer, everyone else got poorer, the middle class for raped and the working class and unemployed were savaged and somehow it's poor peoples fault.

The complete lack of knowledge peoplehave around economic systems, the causes of income inequality and the neo-liberal agenda currently being pushed in the global north is ****ing scary to me.

"rabble rabble rabble, welfare spongers, migrants, rabble, taxes" from the idiot masses while libertarian socio-path hedge fund managers and investment bankers lap up the profits from a bipolar financial system they destroyed to their own benefit.

Humans are simple reactive creatures unfortunately.

Someone sees someone down the road with a few kids getting a house payed for and not working when the person is working and can't afford a house themselves.

They feel agrieved its just human nature.

Mongfinder General · 22-09-2015 10:26pm

Bio Mech wrote: »

Also how does a 30k salary make you middle class exactly?

30k makes you rich if the Labour Party is anything to go by. Tax the rich I tells ya!

22-09-2015 10:38pm

I'm working away full time. days I don't feel like it.

paying 41% on a decent portion of the income. days it annoys me. course I'd like to pay less. course there's ways I think we could spend it better.

worked a long time on rent supplement side of things, days youd see plenty of cod cases well fit to work but with no interest in doing so. course there are gougers in there with the genuine cases.

despite all that, its a privilege to be working, earning and educated in Ireland today. I wouldn't swap places with anyone on benefits, regardless of their income or whether or not they thought they were getting one over on me or any other working stiff. you can only paddle your own canoe- youd go nuts otherwise

The Moldy Gowl · 22-09-2015 10:39pm

Bio Mech wrote: »

There is a lot about the op that doesn't add up. Works in "investments" but only earns 30k. Seems low for financial sector.

Pays 41% tax on 30k salary. Hmmm. How is that exactly?

Has no money left after bills and rent but has enough spare money to invest in US stocks and € and $ and £?

Has 40 years to retirement but dismisses the opinions of anyone born on or after 1995?

Something doesn't add up

I don't think op will be back.

asherbassad · 22-09-2015 10:50pm

One More Toy wrote: »

Im a bit fed up lads, we were chatting about it at work today and we're sick of getting out of bed in morning to feed our overly generous benefits system.

Where is the middle class revolution? USC rapes me on a monthly basis and if it werent for frugal spending id be screwed.

Then, the government has the audacity to give the christmas bonus this year? Wheres my bonus? A cut in PAYE/PRSI for christmas? Not a hope.

Instead I have to pay for long term layabouts, and those fannying at college just to get the odd grant.

Sick of it

Well if you had applied yourself in school and then gone on to university and earned an academic qualification that would pay you a good salary you wouldn't be grumbling. It's all your fault. You had your chance now live with the consequences of your mistake.

Zillah · 22-09-2015 11:04pm

Bio Mech wrote: »

Pays 41% tax on 30k salary. Hmmm. How is that exactly?

Net, perhaps.

For Forks Sake · 22-09-2015 11:08pm

FortySeven wrote: »

I'm not sure, where is the cut off again?

I always though it was a state of mind, bugger, I'm working class!

Cease, peasant. Back to toiling in the fields with you.

Ignatius in bloom · 22-09-2015 11:13pm

The Middle class voted for FG! Blame them.

previous user · 22-09-2015 11:20pm

Been on the oul dole a bit now, trying to get off it.

Ignatius in bloom · 22-09-2015 11:27pm

previous user wrote: »

Been on the oul dole a bit now, trying to get off it.

They have a dole rehabilitation clinic and they give you replacement gear its call doleadone, you should try it.

Tired of our society, government and taxation system

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