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Primary schools to get Tricolour for 1916 centenary

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

    Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

    No need for this ceremonial nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Most Irish people are weird about their flag. I know one family who where renting a house in an estate and had the Tricolour on a pole and the landlord told them they couldn't have it as he didn't agree to the steel pole in the garden. They then removed the pole and was placed in one of those half whiskey barrels instead of in the grass and the landlord again asked them to remove it as it brought down the tone of the neighbourhood I sh it you not. They refused and the flag was robbed from the front garden twice in the space of a month until they gave in. The guy worked in a main car dealership and the wife was a nurse ffs these weren't some sinister republicans.

    I hope for 1916 we see a rise in the amount of people proud to fly the Tricolour outside their house and the flag remains after the year is out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Most Irish people are weird about their flag. I know one family who where renting a house in an estate and had the Tricolour on a pole and the landlord told them they couldn't have it as he didn't agree to the steel pole in the garden. They then removed the pole and was placed in one of those half whiskey barrels instead of in the grass and the landlord again asked them to remove it as it brought down the tone of the neighbourhood I sh it you not. They refused and the flag was robbed from the front garden twice in the space of a month until they gave in. The guy worked in a main car dealership and the wife was a nurse ffs these weren't some sinister republicans.

    I hope for 1916 we see a rise in the amount of people proud to fly the Tricolour outside their house and the flag remains after the year is out.


    Houses aren't the place for flags.It has sinister conortations in every country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    seamus wrote: »
    A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

    Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

    No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

    In fairness FG have a grá for going for the big american style military production so beloved of the Bush Family


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    seamus wrote: »
    A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

    Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

    No need for this ceremonial nonsense.
    As long as the cost isn't huge I think it could be worth it as it'll be a good memory for the childer, I used to love anything that broke the monotony of school when I was young.

    And sure the army lads and teachers are being paid anyway so maybe it wont be too expensive?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
    Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    seamus wrote: »
    A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

    Get some nice fancy boxes done up, stick in a flag, a framed proclamation and a reeling in the years boxset and post it out to them.

    No need for this ceremonial nonsense.

    It's a 30 minute ceremony where a a student,parent,teacher is appointed offical carer of the flag. (Thought how to fold and raise and lower )
    The soldiers will present a high quality copy of the proclamation too.

    Hardly a major expense


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    Inevitably, the build up to the 1916 Commemoration will just turn into a willy measuring contest between the political parties. The thoughts of Enda with that phony smile plastered across his face, pretending that he actually cares about 1916 makes me want to chunder.

    As far as the school ceremonies go, I think it's a pretty good idea. If it teaches a few kids a little history, and makes them think about the sacrifices that many people faced in gaining independence, I can't see how it's a bad thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Gatling wrote: »
    Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
    Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here


    Hope you put em right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,752 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Maybe Irish people see themselves as being more than a flag, when it comes to who they are.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    kneemos wrote: »
    We used to have one in primary school . We'd line up in rows and sing the anthem as it was being raised.
    .

    Given it's mumbling and miming from sports stars and crowds in general it is baffling how the vast majority of us seemingly never learned the national anthem. God knows that while few of us left school able to hold a conversation in Irish, most people left with the drummed in ability to say three or four different prayers and ask how to go to the toilet.

    While the mists of time and the lack of any chance to use them have faded my memory of the prayers I'm sure most of us would still know the anthem f they ever bothered teaching us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    kneemos wrote: »
    Hope you put em right?

    Oh yeah told them all about paddy's day


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Let's not forget most of the locals didn't support the 1916 rising...

    Is there any credible evidence for that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    seamus wrote: »
    A ceremony at every primary school? What a fncking waste of money.

    Well the soldiers are paid regardless, I doubt their getting any extra money. Not sure what the copies of the proclamation cost but it's not a bad thing to have in schools whatsoever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Fantastic idea, but I'm a bit surprised that it's necessary at all - surely as part of our national heritage, the Irish flag should be a basic tenet of primary education and should therefore already be easily found in any school? O_o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Fair play. We should all be proud of 1916. I think there is an onus on everyone to do their bit to mark the centenary.

    Indeed, last night I did mine when I went down to the GPO with a bucket of cement and filled in the bullet holes in the pillars.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Is there any credible evidence for that?
    There was an article I linked to in the last big 1916 thread where the authors looked at the route the prisoners were marched along and pointed out it was through areas that were directly dependent on the british soldiers, as there were some barracks nearby, and it was their jeering of the prisoners that was taken as representative of the dublin population


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Presumably when the kids lower the flag again they will do so whilst the Shinners in the school belt out a chorus of "Take It Down From The Mast" :D.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Would love to see the costings for this exercise in futility.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭recipio


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Green, White and Gold flows off the tongue easier than Orange. More poetic too, since nothing rhymes with orange! I guess perhaps the early flags veered towards the yellow end of the spectrum to distinguish them from the green, white and red of Italy.

    No problem with them sticking the flag up in schools but let's leave out the whole "pledging allegiance to the flag" bs. I kinda like the way we generally don't get hung up on the finer points of flag etiquette.

    Except the original idea was to symbolize peace between Nationalists and Unionists.Unfortunately there is no 'Gold Order' or 'Goldmen' representing Unionist opinion.
    1916 was a coup d'etat that actually succeeded and it became part of the nationalist agenda to reinforce that narrative. Celebrating it is unavoidable of course, especially with an election looming but I wish it were a bit more low key.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,752 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Is there any credible evidence for that?

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Easter_Rising
    The rebels had little public support at the time, and were largely blamed for hundreds of people being killed and wounded, (mostly civilians caught in the crossfire). At the time the executions were demanded in motions passed in some Irish local authorities and by many newspapers, including the Irish Independent and The Irish Times.[2] Prisoners being transported to Frongoch internment camp in Wales were jeered and spat upon by angry Dubliners—many of whom had relatives serving with British forces in the First World War.
    The executions marked the beginning of a change in Irish opinion, much of which had until then seen the rebels as irresponsible adventurers whose actions were likely to harm the nationalist cause.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Oh great...

    More army deafness claims to deal with ... this time from screaming kids!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    This is rediculous! It's nothing short of propaganda and indoctrination of primary school children into the nationalistic claptrap that is typical of this country.

    Schools should not be subjected to this sort of meddling.

    I'm sure the schools would be much more interested to see the money being squandered on this rubbish being spent on upgrading school builidngs and hiring a few extra SNAs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    About time we started embracing our national flag. I think all public places should have it flown proudly. I really like the way the Americans are proud of their flag and wish we could be as proud of ours.

    The American obsession with their own flag, and the gormless nationalism that comes with it, is without a doubt one of the least endearing things about our cousins across the water.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    I don't think there should be a huge fuss over "flag etiquette". The Americans are far too nationalistic in my opinion, all this s**t of "God bless America" every time the President makes a speech gets up my nose. No harm in teaching kids the national anthem or the history of the flag and to respect both (as well as those of other countries). But there should also be a limit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭dandyelevan


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Fantastic idea.

    Teaching our children that the national flag is something to be respected and the etiquette surrounding it's use is always praiseworthy as far as I'm concerned.

    Too many generations have grown up mostly seeing it defaced by event junkie soccer supporters or draped over some murdering terrorist's coffins.

    Well done to all involved.

    All deceased members of the PDF are entitled to have their coffin draped in the National Flag, some of my close relatives, and my Dad included.
    Not a terrorist or criminal among them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭omega man


    Gatling wrote: »
    Strangely enough we were in Denmark of 3 week during the summer and every house had a backgarden flag pole flying a skinny danish flag not a full sized one but more what you might see on a boat or battlement .
    Most of the family's we spent time with were suprised we don't have similar here

    Very typical in Norway too. No "connotations" as a previous poster suggested.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭d2ww


    All deceased members of the PDF are entitled to have their coffin draped in the National Flag, some of my close relatives, and my Dad included.
    Not a terrorist or criminal among them.

    You know right well he didn't mean that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    RobertKK wrote: »

    You specifically said 'most people didn't support the rebels'. Were there any polls taken at the time that proves more than 50% of people of Dublin didn't support the rebels or was this 'Dubliners were against the rising' just the pro-British media writing its usual bollocks?

    Here's riffmongus' post from the previous thread:
    Foy and Barton concluded "Public attitudes locally were not uniformly hostile in an area which the police had come to regard as increasingly militant in the months before the Rising. Some of the British soldiers who fought there noted a strong antipathy towards them." At the South Dublin Union, Major de Courcy Wheeler noted that there was no hostility from the people towards the insurgents: "It was perfectly plain that all their admiration was for the heroes who had surrendered."

    This account flatly contradicts most of the contemporary accounts, says Berresford Ellis.This is a view shared by Michael Foy and Brian Barton also highlighting expressions of sympathy from the people who watched the prisoners being marched away. Quoting the diary of John Clarke a shopkeeper who writes "Thus ends the last attempt for poor old Ireland. What noble fellows. The cream of the land. None of your corner-boy class."


    Foy and Barton felt the contradictions could be modified by other factors. They examined the routes which the British soldiers took the prisoners. Michael Mallin’s column of prisoners they say were marched two miles to Richmond barracks through a "strongly loyalist and Protestant artisan class district." It was from this district that the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and other Irish regiments of the British army drew their recruits. It was around Richmond barracks they say, that people lived who were economically dependent on the military. Another aspect they raise was the degree of hostility from Dublin women whose sons were serving in the army in France. They note that some priests at Church Street rebuked the insurgent prisoners and wounded. However the generally accepted account of the population of Dublin being uniformly hostile to the surrendered insurgents is one of the myths repeated so often as to become 'history.'

    historyireland.com/the-easter-rising/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Padd, that comment about it being draped over someone's coffin is quite simply one of the most ignorant remarks I've read on this website and betrays a total lack of comprehension of the situation played out in a part of our country but as I don't want to derail this thread I will leave that as my one and only comment on that particular aspect of the issue.


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