Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

Gael23 · 03-06-2020 7:02am

Something needs to give from next week. Traffic will increase hugely

LastStop · 03-06-2020 9:08am

Anne Graham, Chief Executive Officer of the (NTA), will tell the committee this afternoon that the NTA believes there is a large percentage of non-essential travel being made on public transport which is using up the capacity that it had planned for Phase Two of the government’s roadmap. From TheJournal.ie

So the NTA are aware of the issues regarding capacity but apart from going back to Mon - Fri schedules there doesn't appear to be any further plan of action around it.

A lot of people expect to walk to the bus stop and be able to get onto the first bus that comes even though when you walk to any store at most times of day you need to queue for 20 to 60minutes to get into most places. And the comparison between Dart/Luas and buses is a fantastic example of why the government shutdown the country... If it was left for people to self regulate the situation would be so much worse than it is now.

ixoy · 03-06-2020 9:12am

LastStop wrote: »

A lot of people expect to walk to the bus stop and be able to get onto the first bus that comes even though when you walk to any store at most times of day you need to queue for 20 to 60minutes to get into most places..

But there's a difference here for anyone further down the line. I'm in Killester for example and, before all this, trains were often full before they reached here at rush hour. So now they would always be full. To use your analogy there, it'd be like waiting in a queue but people constantly being allowed to skip in front of you so you'll never get in the shop.

LastStop · 03-06-2020 9:50am

ixoy wrote: »

But there's a difference here for anyone further down the line. I'm in Killester for example and, before all this, trains were often full before they reached here at rush hour. So now they would always be full. To use your analogy there, it'd be like waiting in a queue but people constantly being allowed to skip in front of you so you'll never get in the shop.

I know with certain corridors that DB have been sending 2 and 3 buses off at same time to cover 1 journey and starting buses further down the route instead of from the terminus. They are limited in what they can do because NTA governs now. Anne Graham and the nta are on Twitter, linked in and all other social media. People in your area need to get vocal about the problem with the right people.

GT89 · 03-06-2020 11:50am

alentejo wrote: »

Extraordinary times : Should Dublin Bus use some open deck tourism buses during the rush hour on certain routes and allow some addition pax board!

Can't see it they could use the Airlink buses though

GT89 · 03-06-2020 12:02pm

LastStop wrote: »

A lot of people expect to walk to the bus stop and be able to get onto the first bus that comes even though when you walk to any store at most times of day you need to queue for 20 to 60minutes to get into most places. And the comparison between Dart/Luas and buses is a fantastic example of why the government shutdown the country... If it was left for people to self regulate the situation would be so much worse than it is now.

There is a bit of a difference though. People rely on buses to get to work at a particular time they have all day to do shopping generally and have plenty of options. I don't it's right for someone to wait an hour for a bus that's supposed to come every 10 mins say. The fact of the matter is social distancing on public transport does not work.

Gael23 · 03-06-2020 12:51pm

Is their anyone policing adherence on the Luas?

GT89 · 03-06-2020 12:58pm

Gael23 wrote: »

Is their anyone policing adherence on the Luas?

No they have tweeted this

https://twitter.com/Luas/status/1267864168314613760?s=19

Technocentral · 03-06-2020 1:10pm

GT89 wrote: »

No they have tweeted this

https://twitter.com/Luas/status/1267864168314613760?s=19

Personal responsibility and Ireland are mutually exclusive, large on the spot fines is what's needed on public transport, beaches etc.

LastStop · 03-06-2020 3:56pm

GT89 wrote: »

People rely on buses to get to work at a particular time they have all day to do shopping generally and have plenty of options..

And that's why it's the responsibility of all companies, educational institutions and people to stagger start times and continue working from home where possible. It's not fair to expect one company (DB) to completely ignore social distancing because it's not convenient, if that's the case just throw in the towel and forget about Social Distancing and open up everything.

GT89 · 03-06-2020 4:36pm

LastStop wrote: »

And that's why it's the responsibility of all companies, educational institutions and people to stagger start times and continue working from home where possible. It's not fair to expect one company (DB) to completely ignore social distancing because it's not convenient, if that's the case just throw in the towel and forget about Social Distancing and open up everything.

I don't disagree about companies staggerring work times and it's something I would be supportive of covid 19 or not. However 17 people on a double decker bus is very low number and not something that can be substained long term.

You can stagger work times but that's not going to guarantee that the amount of people on buses is not going to exceed 17 people. I'm not saying that we should go back to sardine can like buses and trains the demand isn't there yet anyway for public transport to run at those kinds of levels anyway.

And it's not just a matter of convenience it's a matter of people's livelihoods as people in cities need to be able to depend on functioning public transport in order to have a functioning economy.

AlekSmart · 03-06-2020 8:56pm

GT89 wrote: »

No they have tweeted this

https://twitter.com/Luas/status/1267864168314613760?s=19

At last !....well done Luas/Transdev for a concise factual answer that cuts to the core of the matter.

I will be seeking to have some form of P/A or Poster publicity to this effect,in order to clarify the issue for those whe may see the Driver as some form of enforcer of Rules,which are not rules at all.

All current measures,including the current face covering impulse,which we have across ALL Public Transport modes are RECOMMENDATIONS,and have always been such.

In have never regarded myself as an enforcer of CV19 regulations,and continue to work as I have done since CV19 broke out,I operate my services and offer advice or point out posters etc if required...should anybody approach me in relation to enforcing,I have and most certainly will continue to,do as Luas do.

If somebody is concerned about that they are being impinged upon I will offer them the oprion of leaving the Bus at the nearest safe point and provide them with email and/or phone contact details to take the matter further with those with responsibility for progressing their complaints onward.

I believe that we are definitely in exit mode now,the die is cast,and we will divide largely along ground of those who are confident enough about it,and those who wish to remain in safe-mode.

Employers,in particular will have to come to some accomodation with staff who have concerns,but I suggest this will be a minority.

GT89 · 03-06-2020 9:19pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

At last !....well done Luas/Transdev for a concise factual answer that cuts to the core of the matter.

I will be seeking to have some form of P/A or Poster publicity to this effect,in order to clarify the issue for those whe may see the Driver as some form of enforcer of Rules,which are not rules at all.

All current measures,including the current face covering impulse,which we have across ALL Public Transport modes are RECOMMENDATIONS,and have always been such.

In have never regarded myself as an enforcer of CV19 regulations,and continue to work as I have done since CV19 broke out,I operate my services and offer advice or point out posters etc if required...should anybody approach me in relation to enforcing,I have and most certainly will continue to,do as Luas do.

If somebody is concerned about that they are being impinged upon I will offer them the oprion of leaving the Bus at the nearest safe point and provide them with email and/or phone contact details to take the matter further with those with responsibility for progressing their complaints onward.

I believe that we are definitely in exit mode now,the die is cast,and we will divide largely along ground of those who are confident enough about it,and those who wish to remain in safe-mode.

Employers,in particular will have to come to some accomodation with staff who have concerns,but I suggest this will be a minority.

+1

Jamie2k9 · 03-06-2020 10:12pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

At last !....well done Luas/Transdev for a concise factual answer that cuts to the core of the matter.

I think if CIE were that blunt a certain people might lose the plot!

GT89 · 04-06-2020 12:30am

My one general gripe about drivers and I hope no bus drivers take offence is the general inconsistency amongst different drivers. I suspect this no different as some will strictly limited numbers to 17 while others will exceed in some cases by a large numbers.

Now I appreciate bus drivers are humans not robots but it seems different take different approaches to the job and it can be frustrating for passengers.

For example some drivers don't care what passengers do whilst others try to enforce every little rule in the book. Some care about passes and others don't, some ask where passengers are going when they pay their fares others just deduct the balance from your Leap card no questions asked, I've seen some who refuse to let people on with food whilst others don't care if people bring alcohol for consumption on board, some will turn the engine off if there's a problem with if they notice disorderly passengers others will pay no attention unless someone complains, some will get on the mic to inform people of seats upstairs others do not, some use centre doors some don't and the definition of a full bus at peak hours varies from driver to driver even when social distancing is not in place.

I don't know where this issue stems but could be that DB and GAI are offering a lack of clear training and/or guidance given to drivers about how to deal with passengers. Personally as a passenger I would prefer if drivers took a more uniform approach to different issues and this was one where drivers would stay out of passenger affairs and focus on the driving element of the job in the same way a train or a tram driver might.

Atlantic Dawn · 04-06-2020 12:33am

Why do drivers not refuse to move from a stop when they see social distancing has been completely ignored? The current restrictions are unworkable if the economy is ever to sustain itself. Waiting for a vaccine as a solution is up there with believing in the moving statues.

punisher5112 · 04-06-2020 12:42am

GT89 wrote: »

My one general gripe about drivers and I hope no bus drivers take offence is the general inconsistency amongst different drivers. I suspect this no different as some will strictly limited numbers to 17 while others will exceed in some cases by a large numbers.

Now I appreciate bus drivers are humans not robots but it seems different take different approaches to the job and it can be frustrating for passengers.

For example some drivers don't care what passengers do whilst others try to enforce every little rule in the book. Some care about passes and others don't, some ask where passengers are going when they pay their fares others just deduct the balance from your Leap card no questions asked, I've seen some who refuse to let people on with food whilst others don't care if people bring alcohol for consumption on board, some will turn the engine off if there's a problem with if they notice disorderly passengers others will pay no attention unless someone complains, some will get on the mic to inform people of seats upstairs others do not, some use centre doors some don't and the definition of a full bus at peak hours varies from driver to driver even when social distancing is not in place.

I don't know where this issue stems but could be that DB and GAI are offering a lack of clear training and/or guidance given to drivers about how to deal with passengers. Personally as a passenger I would prefer if drivers took a more uniform approach to different issues and this was one where drivers would stay out of passenger affairs and focus on the driving element of the job in the same way a train or a tram driver might.

We have only been told by the union or a notice up on the notice board....

Sure the 1st I seen of the notices was online either here or the news sites.

We aren't informed properly in my opinion and we as per usual are left out alone in the thick of it....

There is no clear guidance or back up whatsoever and I haven't felt one bit safe in the last 8 or so weeks.

Yes we have a screen but that doesn't stop people leaning down to speak through the gaps or they happen to be short etc....

I've already been abused on numerous occasions and had my job and safety threatened.

There are a lot of absolute lunatics out there and there was a lot of tension imo opinion, saying that it seems to have calmed a bit on that end but the biggest issues now are so many are gone back to life as it were before and some never changed at all.

I want to cut the risks as much as possible so I will keep to the guidelines as best as I possibly can and I have been buying my own products for cleaning the cab and did have my own sanitizer untill we were eventually supplied around 6 weeks in. I didn't get any in the 1st batch around the 2 to 3 week mark.

What I would like to see is better signage and conditions put on intending passenger where they respect the drivers and keep calm and civil and just scan their card and sit down, so many are still using us as Google or want us to hold their hand to baby them as they can't look out and see.....

GT89 · 04-06-2020 1:24am

punisher5112 wrote: »

We have only been told by the union or a notice up on the notice board....

Sure the 1st I seen of the notices was online either here or the news sites.

We aren't informed properly in my opinion and we as per usual are left out alone in the thick of it....

There is no clear guidance or back up whatsoever and I haven't felt one bit safe in the last 8 or so weeks.

Yes we have a screen but that doesn't stop people leaning down to speak through the gaps or they happen to be short etc....

I've already been abused on numerous occasions and had my job and safety threatened.

There are a lot of absolute lunatics out there and there was a lot of tension imo opinion, saying that it seems to have calmed a bit on that end but the biggest issues now are so many are gone back to life as it were before and some never changed at all.

I want to cut the risks as much as possible so I will keep to the guidelines as best as I possibly can and I have been buying my own products for cleaning the cab and did have my own sanitizer untill we were eventually supplied around 6 weeks in. I didn't get any in the 1st batch around the 2 to 3 week mark.

What I would like to see is better signage and conditions put on intending passenger where they respect the drivers and keep calm and civil and just scan their card and sit down, so many are still using us as Google or want us to hold their hand to baby them as they can't look out and see.....

I thought I heard some drivers were refusing to accept cash or Leap payments at the ticket machine and were insisting all passengers used the right hand validator.

One thing I will say is that buses had some of the protections like the screen already in place and it was only a matter of sealing up the holes to offer drivers protection in that whilst other places had to put up the screens in response to the crisis. There definitely should be more clear guidance of the do's and dont's for drivers.

As for the hand sanitiser to be fair at the start of all this it was something which was very difficult for people and businesses alike to get their hands on.

Although I do feel in general and this isn't nessecarily solely a public transport thing that there has been a lot mixed messaging in general.

Gael23 · 04-06-2020 6:21am

GT89 wrote: »

I thought I heard some drivers were refusing to accept cash or Leap payments at the ticket machine and were insisting all passengers used the right hand validator.

One thing I will say is that buses had some of the protections like the screen already in place and it was only a matter of sealing up the holes to offer drivers protection in that whilst other places had to put up the screens in response to the crisis. There definitely should be more clear guidance of the do's and dont's for drivers.

As for the hand sanitiser to be fair at the start of all this it was something which was very difficult for people and businesses alike to get their hands on.

Although I do feel in general and this isn't nessecarily solely a public transport thing that there has been a lot mixed messaging in general.

Then that would mean passengers being charged the incorrect fare. I understand not taking cash but no reason for leap card

AlekSmart · 04-06-2020 6:33am

GT89 wrote: »

I thought I heard some drivers were refusing to accept cash or Leap payments at the ticket machine and were insisting all passengers used the right hand validator.

One thing I will say is that buses had some of the protections like the screen already in place and it was only a matter of sealing up the holes to offer drivers protection in that whilst other places had to put up the screens in response to the crisis. There definitely should be more clear guidance of the do's and dont's for drivers.

As for the hand sanitiser to be fair at the start of all this it was something which was very difficult for people and businesses alike to get their hands on.

Although I do feel in general and this isn't nessecarily solely a public transport thing that there has been a lot mixed messaging in general.

You make a valid point concerning what you "thought you heard".

Notwithstanding that this is a somehwhat traditional Irish method of accquiring and dissemenating information anyway,it also underlines a more basic huiman trait of hearing what we want to hear.

Thus,throughout this entire CV19 outbreak,the general public has been almost totally focused upon Deaths and associated other awfulness,to the almost complete exclusion of the fact that the various responses appear to have effectively contained and treated the virus...to the extent that over 80% of those contracting it have NO,or Very Mild symptoms.
Equally,and recognising that there is a transmissability risk,Irelands Health System has not been brought anywhere near the collapse which many feared,and some even appeared to desire,at the outset of the pandemic.

People are different....in so many ways...which is why your desire for a uniform level of enforcement (for that is what it would be) is extremely difficult in a free,open society such as ours.

For sure the French,Germans,Spanish and whomever had a different approach,but their Societal Structure already allowed for this approach,particularly with their pre-existing methods of Policing,which lends itself to a more immediate notion of the term enforcement.

I too bought my own sanitizer a the beginning of weel 2,when initial supplies in work dried up.however by the end of the week I had no issues securing wipes and refills of liquid in work,and this has continued....all I can say is that is MY experience and I recognise that others,in any karge company situation,will differ.

On the road I still remain confident that I am as safe as I can expect to be,once I stick to the basics,I am not too concerned with passengers briefly interacting with me,but often cannot hear them through the variety of facecoverings they use.

IF I felt that I was under threat of contracting CV19 from these interactions I would have NO hesitation of getting to hell out of Dodge,but,as yet I do not.

As for your observations on the lack of guidance I would suggest some direct questions to the NTA and The Operators Customer Service departments rather than relying on hearsay....Go directly to the Organ Grinders and ask them ?

GT89 · 04-06-2020 5:19pm

Masks to become compulsory on public transport from the 15th June in the UK

tobefrank321 · 04-06-2020 5:23pm

GT89 wrote: »

Masks to become compulsory on public transport from the 15th June

Is that the UK or here?
UK just announced the same so we can expect us to follow soon. Difficult to enforce though as always some rebels.

GT89 · 04-06-2020 5:25pm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Is that the UK or here?
UK just announced the same so we can expect us to follow soon. Difficult to enforce though as always some rebels.

UK just edited

antimatterx · 04-06-2020 5:43pm

Whats the plan for next week - Are buses/trains returning to full capacity

punisher5112 · 04-06-2020 5:55pm

antimatterx wrote: »

Whats the plan for next week - Are buses/trains returning to full capacity

Talk of the 8th but not confirmed

AlekSmart · 04-06-2020 7:02pm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Is that the UK or here?
UK just announced the same so we can expect us to follow soon. Difficult to enforce though as always some rebels.

The UK Government's facecovering decision does ramp up the situation by a factor.

There are already questions being asked as to who is to police the law,and the levels of penalty to be imposed.

The CEO of Network Rail,Sir Peter Hendy has been quick out of the blocks in suggesting that Railway Staff will be unlikely to be to the fore in enforcing it.

Network Rail chairman Sir Peter Hendy said he was not expecting a "huge surge" in staff policing these new rules.

"I am expecting sensible passengers to do their duty and look after themselves and others," he said at the Downing Street briefing.

Transport unions welcomed the announcement.

Making the Facecovering mandatory and non-wearing punishable will undoubtedly lead to confrontation and resistance from some sectors of Society,and Mr Hendy recognises that Rail Staff will be less than enthusiastic to become Facecovering Police.

At this point I do not anticipate that Ireland will follow suit,particularly as the existing voluntary measures are broadly still being respected,and appear to be working well.

As it currently stands,the next phase of Éire ár Oscailt starts next Monday and those elements of the laid-up city Bus Fleets,are being readied for service on Monday morning.

An abundance of caution,is still the mantra,but the die is cast,and the heading is set

punisher5112 · 04-06-2020 7:47pm

Well they do have transport police so I'd say it will be up to them.

LastStop · 04-06-2020 9:34pm

antimatterx wrote: »

Whats the plan for next week - Are buses/trains returning to full capacity

Buses returning to Monday to Friday schedules (Summer schedules on some routes). No mention of removing the restrictions on capacity as social distancing on transportation is in all phases of the road map to reopening the country.

stephenjmcd · 04-06-2020 9:37pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Well they do have transport police so I'd say it will be up to them.

And not near enough to police the volume of commuters using the transport networks, they wont be dropping their usual work to start handing out fines to commuters

GT89 · 04-06-2020 11:09pm

If your exempt from having to wear one how the hell can that be proven on a bus show the driver a doctors note. How is a driver is going to verify the validity of a doctor's note

Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

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