Soundproof Window from Seagulls

Kondo69 · 06-05-2020 8:57am #1

My heart is broken with seagulls making noise from 4am every morning. It's nesting season as far as I know and it will only get worse.
I've tried:
- ear plugs
- sealing the windows for air pockets
- stuffing a mattress into the window frame
- using heavy curtains

Can anyone recommend a solution that has recently worked for them? Please and thanks.

Yellow_Fern · 06-05-2020 11:54am

Kondo69 wrote: »

My heart is broken with seagulls making noise from 4am every morning. It's nesting season as far as I know and it will only get worse.
I've tried:
- ear plugs
- sealing the windows for air pockets
- stuffing a mattress into the window frame
- using heavy curtains

Can anyone recommend a solution that has recently worked for them? Please and thanks.

Id look at whole wall approach rather than just windows. Depending on your budget, get a sound proofing company. They are pricey but if too expensive you should get a lot done cheaper by non specialists provided understand the concepts and you can oversee the work.
BTW do you curtains hit the floor? Are they brushing off the walls? That helps, especially with black out curtains and it is a very cheap measure.

Gumbo · 06-05-2020 2:19pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

My heart is broken with seagulls making noise from 4am every morning. It's nesting season as far as I know and it will only get worse.
I've tried:
- ear plugs
- sealing the windows for air pockets
- stuffing a mattress into the window frame
- using heavy curtains

Can anyone recommend a solution that has recently worked for them? Please and thanks.

Move house.
I guarantee you after spending 20k on sound upgrades, you’ll still hear them.

Kondo69 · 06-05-2020 8:32pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Move house.
I guarantee you after spending 20k on sound upgrades, you’ll still hear them.

But the sound is actually just coming in the window, surely there must be some solution?

BryanF · 06-05-2020 8:38pm

How old are the windows?

Did you build the house?

Kondo69 · 06-05-2020 9:05pm

BryanF wrote: »

How old are the windows?

Did you build the house?

They look maybe 10 years old? It's a wood sash window. I think there must be a solution, if the sound was coming through the walls or ceiling I'd accept it given the cost but it's just the window. No I did not build it.

writhen · 06-05-2020 9:40pm

Secondary glazing.

sydthebeat · 06-05-2020 9:52pm

have you wall vents?

Gumbo · 06-05-2020 10:04pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

But the sound is actually just coming in the window, surely there must be some solution?

No way is the sound “just” coming in the windows.
Sound will travel through block work, vents etc

BryanF · 06-05-2020 10:06pm

quality of seals on the windows, and their alignment would be relevant also

Kondo69 · 06-05-2020 10:24pm

Can you recommend a company for secondary glazing? The noise is just coming from the same place, the window

Who2 · 06-05-2020 10:56pm

Secondary glazing is a pure disaster, you’ll have sweating and condensation issues and the frames will be rotten in no time. Replacing the windows and using triple glazing should sort out the issue if everything around it is right.

Kondo69 · 06-05-2020 11:07pm

thank you

booooonzo · 07-05-2020 1:05am

Not sure with wood sash windows but secondary glazing definitely works, just removed it as part of our renovation and notice the difference in sound from road noise. there was no condensation previously

nthclare · 07-05-2020 1:09am

It's worse here I've golden eagles screening in the afternoon, fckers are always like live drone's looking for kid goats...

Seagulls aren't as bad

Kondo69 · 07-05-2020 1:40pm

nthclare wrote: »

It's worse here I've golden eagles screening in the afternoon, fckers are always like live drone's looking for kid goats...

Seagulls aren't as bad

Have you tried to block out the noise?

Kondo69 · 07-05-2020 1:42pm

booooonzo wrote: »

Not sure with wood sash windows but secondary glazing definitely works, just removed it as part of our renovation and notice the difference in sound from road noise. there was no condensation previously

Do you have any idea of what it might cost to put one window in? 50cm x 90cm

Yellow_Fern · 07-05-2020 4:17pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

Do you have any idea of what it might cost to put one window in? 50cm x 90cm

There are also specially acoustically resistant windows. You could call a window company but sound experts would be more neutral.

n97 mini · 08-05-2020 9:02pm

Who2 wrote: »

Secondary glazing is a pure disaster, you’ll have sweating and condensation issues and the frames will be rotten in no time. Replacing the windows and using triple glazing should sort out the issue if everything around it is right.

We have triple glazed windows. We were told before we bought them they do not block out sound, that if we want to block out sound we need to get windows designed to block sound. And now that we have them they're not sound proof.

OP, if you're replacing the window, make sure you tell the supplier it's for sound proofing purposes, not energy efficiency.

Kondo69 · 08-05-2020 10:14pm

n97 mini wrote: »

We have triple glazed windows. We were told before we bought them they do not block out sound, that if we want to block out sound we need to get windows designed to block sound. And now that we have them they're not sound proof.

OP, if you're replacing the window, make sure you tell the supplier it's for sound proofing purposes, not energy efficiency.

If not triple glaze windows what should I ask for, or are they just called sound proof windows?

Thanks

Who2 · 08-05-2020 10:27pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

If not triple glaze windows what should I ask for, or are they just called sound proof windows?

Thanks

Regardless of whats being said, i can assure you the majority of triple glazed windows correctly installed will be as close to sound proof as you will get. You are not going to block out all sounds 100% but will definately block the sound of seagulls to what should be an acceptable level.
I'm not guessing or surmising, its the area i work within.

n97 mini · 08-05-2020 11:46pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

If not triple glaze windows what should I ask for, or are they just called sound proof windows?

Thanks

Just specify you want to change for sound proofing purposes.

John_Rambo · 08-05-2020 11:57pm

nthclare wrote: »

It's worse here I've golden eagles screening in the afternoon, fckers are always like live drone's looking for kid goats...

Seagulls aren't as bad

Golden eagles are pretty quiet, their cries are weak with a cough at the end. You're most likely hearing buzzards or kites.

OP, if the gulls, which are most likely Herring gulls haven't yet laid eggs a hawk kite on a long pole might work. If they've already laid the kite might just frustrate them further.

Atlantic Dawn · 08-05-2020 11:59pm

Are they landing in a specific area or airborne when you are hearing them? If landing try bird spikes.

Kondo69 · 09-05-2020 2:01pm

They have set up nests on the roof of the building across from me so nothing can be done there until the chicks hatch. They use my balcony as a toilet and i can get over that but its the 5am noise that's the worst. Neighbours from hell.

booooonzo · 11-05-2020 2:10pm

Kondo69 wrote: »

Do you have any idea of what it might cost to put one window in? 50cm x 90cm

There are loads of different types. do you can about looks, remove ability, weight, ease of cleaning, opening for ventilation etc..

Sometime the weakness can be in the frame (although yours might be solid wood?)

if they are sash do you have a deep internal reveal?
if so , use that to your advantage.
A large air gap is the best thing you can have for sound attenuation.

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LqzSGGnx9w7Z0kKdzYeHZe9tg6D6AH_YQH7Oz5A4FVuLGjDtdTd12rVTFMSy6jGkTj5OjqlVS0SvoaStfF56OabWZZxP68U3aDvN_NzLrYzfcaJ5Lob0-JbkaxBa6onp1EeHK2hjoXh76J1iFXqZVPm1Gdob4xzQ1jb50EXwdRwqP_o5n4FSrF6b6cXI0e_D3kk

the ones i have taken out are 50cm x 140cm I think.
you can have them if they suited and you were in the west

macannrb · 21-05-2020 7:56pm

Who2 wrote: »

Regardless of whats being said, i can assure you the majority of triple glazed windows correctly installed will be as close to sound proof as you will get. You are not going to block out all sounds 100% but will definately block the sound of seagulls to what should be an acceptable level.
I'm not guessing or surmising, its the area i work within.

how does the layman know that the installer will install the windows correctly? Not being cheeky, just would like to get an understanding as I am looking to get windows installed and the installation part is the bit I am most worried about as I don't know how to tell if a job is good or bad.

Cheers

Who2 · 21-05-2020 8:11pm

macannrb wrote: »

how does the layman know that the installer will install the windows correctly? Not being cheeky, just would like to get an understanding as I am looking to get windows installed and the installation part is the bit I am most worried about as I don't know how to tell if a job is good or bad.

Cheers

Are they refits (replacements)or into new openings?
And to the question of cost of sliding sash windows : most run at 600-1000 each depending on spec, nearly all window companies charge a single job rate so it’s usually nearly as cheap to replace 2 windows as it is one.

macannrb · 21-05-2020 9:37pm

They are replacements. I'm thinking triple glaze because of the job cost means you get more benefit from the extra spend. But also Upvc as the image doesn't matter all that much. im likely to do dry lining at the same time also.

Any advice pointers would be great - cheers

Who2 · 21-05-2020 9:54pm

macannrb wrote: »

They are replacements. I'm thinking triple glaze because of the job cost means you get more benefit from the extra spend. But also Upvc as the image doesn't matter all that much. im likely to do dry lining at the same time also.

Any advice pointers would be great - cheers

If your doing dry lining at the same time it’ll make it easier to fit as inside reveals can be fully removed.
Ensure the windows are well bitten behind the external reveal, old silicon is removed and windows are sealed out tight. Try to ensure they have minimal packing under the bottom of the window, only the bare minimum to allow for off level calls, again if the window board and internal reveals are removed it’s easier. Get them to use a proper bedding mastic under the window and ensure windows are all plumb and level in every direction. Get them to foam completely around the top and two sides. It’s actually better to have a small gap of 10mm around window between it and the cavity closers so that a bead of foam can be done, however sometimes block work is just desperate and unachievable. If the block work is clean air tightness tape is a good idea if it’s done right, done wrong and your just throwing away money. The main issue I see around Dublin is the windows are made small of the reveals then pushed in and siliconed around or ugly slips just stuck on.
Make sure they have plenty of straps on the window but I personally like them direct fixed if the profile allows for it.

Yellow_Fern · 21-05-2020 11:08pm

Who2 wrote: »

If your doing dry lining at the same time it’ll make it easier to fit as inside reveals can be fully removed.
Ensure the windows are well bitten behind the external reveal, old silicon is removed and windows are sealed out tight. Try to ensure they have minimal packing under the bottom of the window, only the bare minimum to allow for off level calls, again if the window board and internal reveals are removed it’s easier. Get them to use a proper bedding mastic under the window and ensure windows are all plumb and level in every direction. Get them to foam completely around the top and two sides. It’s actually better to have a small gap of 10mm around window between it and the cavity closers so that a bead of foam can be done, however sometimes block work is just desperate and unachievable. If the block work is clean air tightness tape is a good idea if it’s done right, done wrong and your just throwing away money. The main issue I see around Dublin is the windows are made small of the reveals then pushed in and siliconed around or ugly slips just stuck on.
Make sure they have plenty of straps on the window but I personally like them direct fixed if the profile allows for it.

Is it important to use a closed cell foam which would be more airtight and I guess sound tight?

Kondo69 · 03-06-2020 7:50am

Does anyone have the name of a company who could do this for me? It's getting worse now their eggs have hatched. Thanks

fatty pang · 04-06-2020 10:51pm

Who2 wrote: »

Regardless of whats being said, i can assure you the majority of triple glazed windows correctly installed will be as close to sound proof as you will get. You are not going to block out all sounds 100% but will definately block the sound of seagulls to what should be an acceptable level.
I'm not guessing or surmising, its the area i work within.

What would be the construction of the IGU's in the "majority of triple glazed windows" that you are referring to ?

Lumen · 05-06-2020 8:52am

Since it's just one window and it's making your life hell, I would look for an acoustic product with different pane thicknesses and a laminated element.

A quick Google brings up this, for example:

https://www.bereco.co.uk/news/bereco-launch-45db-acoustic-sash-window/

I'm not recommending it, but it has the sort of features I would be looking for.

However, since you're looking to block out specific frequencies it may be that you can get the unit specified to deal with these.

I use an Android app called BirdUp to recognise bird calls in my garden. It will show you the frequency range of a particular call. You may be able to provide this information to an acoustic engineer to help specify the pane thicknesses that will resist transmission at those frequencies.

I would also consider incorporating another layer to the wall. Even double plasterboard might have a significant effect.

Is there a vent in the wall? I assume there should be.

Valhallapt · 05-06-2020 9:04am

I have triple glaze sash windows and they're shyte! I live on a noisy road and bought high end windows, but they made no difference to the sound.

I went back to the company and they said to me that triple glazing is not suitable for noisy environments, its super at thermal, but the glass is thinner and of 3 equal widths as a result its only slightly better than single glazing at noise.

You can buy acoustic double glazing from several manufacturers, I wish I had known at the time, it has two panes of glass at different thickness and a coated in a laminate which all block noise at different wave lengths. e.g. Truck noise is low frequency, seagulls squawking are high frequency i'd imagine.

Also sash will never perform as well as casement windows.

We put in shutters and they made a difference, I added draught seal to them to get an airtight close.

Also consider how much noise is coming through the roof, a couple rolls of acoustic insulation in the attic might be a cheap way to improve the situation.

Block air vents if possible, if not you can buy acoustic ones, or google air vent noise maze, very easy diy job to reduce noise.

I don't think you'll ever get to silence, but you can certainly turn the volume down so low you don't notice them any more.

Kondo69 · 05-06-2020 9:47am

I've been offered this for €300, what do you think? I've no knowledge of this stuff so really appreciating the help

"6mm toughened glass one side 6.4mm laminated the other. It will be the best for noise reduction"

Yellow_Fern · 05-06-2020 10:21am

Valhallapt wrote: »

I have triple glaze sash windows and they're shyte! I live on a noisy road and bought high end windows, but they made no difference to the sound.

I went back to the company and they said to me that triple glazing is not suitable for noisy environments, its super at thermal, but the glass is thinner and of 3 equal widths as a result its only slightly better than single glazing at noise.

You can buy acoustic double glazing from several manufacturers, I wish I had known at the time, it has two panes of glass at different thickness and a coated in a laminate which all block noise at different wave lengths. e.g. Truck noise is low frequency, seagulls squawking are high frequency i'd imagine.

Also sash will never perform as well as casement windows.

This is triple glaze as a retrofit? Did the installers use airtightness tape to fit it?

fatty pang · 05-06-2020 11:38am

Kondo69 wrote: »

"6mm toughened glass one side 6.4mm laminated the other. It will be the best for noise reduction"

The size (thickness) of the glazing unit that can fit into your existing frame is important. The wider the cavity the better - see the attached comparison.
As pointed out above it's likely that the higher frequency attenuation is what you need >2000 Hz
Acoustic 6.5mm laminate (a stock glass) over standard 6.4 laminate will give a significant improvement if you can accommodate a widish cavity

Valhallapt · 06-06-2020 10:36am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

This is triple glaze as a retrofit? Did the installers use airtightness tape to fit it?

It was a full house renovation, new windows from Munster joinery and I saw the builder put the air tight tape on it.

Lumen · 06-06-2020 11:18am

Valhallapt wrote: »

It was a full house renovation, new windows from Munster joinery and I saw the builder put the air tight tape on it.

It's quite unusual to see Munster described as high end.

Valhallapt · 06-06-2020 12:15pm

Lumen wrote: »

It's quite unusual to see Munster described as high end.

You got me on that! I felt i was sold high end as its their most expensive windows. But you're right they're far from high end.

Yellow_Fern · 06-06-2020 1:49pm

Valhallapt wrote: »

It was a full house renovation, new windows from Munster joinery and I saw the builder put the air tight tape on it.

Lumen wrote: »

It's quite unusual to see Munster described as high end.

I think there is too much emphasis on the windows. I am just a DIYer but i think you have to look at the whole wall. One thing I learned recently is that when a block wall is built, cement drips out and build up on the wall ties which reduces sound proofing. A skilled craftsman could quite cheaply open up a reveal, check the wall ties, check the airtightness of the entire reveal and then supervise the installation of a new high end window. It would be a same to spend big money on a new window and have it compromised by cheap mistakes in the wall itself. Munster joinery are not going to be checking these details for you.

Valhallapt · 06-06-2020 2:00pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I think there is too much emphasis on the windows. I am just a DIYer but i think you have to look at the whole wall. One thing I learned recently is that when a block wall is built, cement drips out and build up on the wall ties which reduces sound proofing. A skilled craftsman could quite cheaply open up a reveal, check the wall ties, check the airtightness of the entire reveal and then supervise the installation of a new high end window. It would be a same to spend big money on a new window and have it compromised by cheap mistakes in the wall itself. Munster joinery are not going to be checking these details for you.

In my case I spoke to Munster joinery after I moved in about the noise, and was told they do not recommend my glazing on a busy road and that I should have picked their acoustic glazing. That was the first time I learned of such a thing, sales person never mentioned it to me. I asked could I get the glazing retro fitted, they said it would be the same price as new windows, PFO.

Soundproof Window from Seagulls

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