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Building a fence higher than 2 metres

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    #32
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Lumen wrote: »
    If the ground undulates and the fence is straight, the fence will vary in height, and the highest part needs to comply.

    If one part contravenes, it needs planning.

    Unless you jigsaw the top of the fence...

    Even varying the ground level is dodgy, ISTR something about "original ground level".

    Of course one could just ask the council....
    The question wasn't about a wall undulating along it's length, but rather ground being two different levels either side.

    Regardless, I was looking for a source, not an explanation. I don't didn't recall any requirements for it to be measured on a certain side of the wall.
    Lumen wrote: »
    The ultimate planning hack is a 4m pitched roof single storey shed, 50cm deep, for example. That will cover 50m of boundary and is exempted development.

    Due to the narrow depth the rear wall can be over 3.5m tall.

    Your neighbours will love you...

    It might be exempt, but it would also be triple the cost and take but much more space. You would have to be really desperate to do that and knock lots of value off. For the right neighbours guess


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    #33
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Mellor wrote: »
    The question wasn't about a wall undulating along it's length, but rather ground being two different levels either side.

    The question was:
    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    What happens when the ground varies a lot on the two sides of the wall?

    Since the earlier question about different levels between sites has been answered, I interpreted that as a question about varying ground levels on a site.

    It's a bit difficult to follow these suggestions without diagrams, so maybe I misinterpreted.
    Mellor wrote: »
    Regardless, I was looking for a source, not an explanation. I don't didn't recall any requirements for it to be measured on a certain side of the wall.

    It's obvious to me, without recourse to legislation, that a wall's height is measured from its base at the ground level under it. That seems the very definition of height.

    If you want a more empirical approach you could push the wall over and measure it along the ground. :pac:


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    #34
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Mellor wrote: »
    It might be exempt, but it would also be triple the cost and take but much more space. You would have to be really desperate to do that and knock lots of value off. For the right neighbours guess

    Indeed, but there was a thread on here a while back where someone's neighbour built a tall shed type structure along the entire length of the garden, so it does happen.


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    #35
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Lumen wrote: »
    Since the earlier question about different levels between sites has been answered, I interpreted that as a question about varying ground levels on a site.

    It's a bit difficult to follow these suggestions without diagrams, so maybe I misinterpreted.
    Well it says the two sides, I'd assume that means the two gardens either side. So I think you misinterpreted.

    It's obvious to me, without recourse to legislation, that a wall's height is measured from its base at the ground level under it. That seems the very definition of height.
    But the ground on either said is at two different heights, that's the point.

    Say we are neighbors, and my garden is 300mm higher than yours.
    I build a boundary wall for us. I lay a foundation keep laying courses until the wall is 1900mm high from the top to the ground level in my garden. Based on that it's exempt.
    Of course if you measure the wall in your garden, it's obvious 2200mm and not exempt.

    It can't be exempt and not exempt. But it's not really clear which is the right application.


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    #36
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Mellor wrote: »
    Say we are neighbors, and my garden is 300mm higher than yours.
    I build a boundary wall for us. I lay a foundation keep laying courses until the wall is 1900mm high from the top to the ground level in my garden. Based on that it's exempt.
    Of course if you measure the wall in your garden, it's obvious 2200mm and not exempt.

    It can't be exempt and not exempt. But it's not really clear which is the right application.

    But if your garden is higher, you can't safely build the wall, except on my site. If you built on your side against the boundary with a standard foundation below your ground level, it would fall over on to my site.

    The only way for the wall to be built is from the lower side, and that 2200mm is not exempted.

    Or at least, that's what my interpretation would be.


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    #37
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Lumen wrote: »
    But if your garden is higher, you can't safely build the wall, except on my site. If you built on your side against the boundary with a standard foundation below your ground level, it would fall over on to my site.

    The only way for the wall to be built is from the lower side, and that 2200mm is not exempted.

    Or at least, that's what my interpretation would be.


    No it wouldn't fall over. I'm not sure why up think that.
    Foundations goes below ground, to whatever depth is required. That has nothing to do with planning it's a building reg issue.

    It's also irrelevant what side the builder stands on to build it the wall. That's a property and access issue.

    The fact remains that the wall is 2000mm above GL when measured in my garden. As I said, it's a grey area in the regs.


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    #38
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Mellor wrote: »
    As I said, it's a grey area in the regs.

    Hmm. I did a quick Google and found this.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/confused-about-planning-regulations-for-height-of-garden-wall-1.2021574
    The most likely interpretation from the planning authority, or An Bord Pleanála on referral, is likely to be that the height of the structure cannot exceed 2m when measured from the ground level outside the site, ie the lower level. This interpretation may be taken in the interests of protecting neighbouring amenities.

    The opinion is authored by "John Spain is a member of the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (SCSI) Planning & Development Professional Group".

    I'd ask him to back up his advice but I suspect I'd have to pay for that. :D


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    #39
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Lumen wrote: »
    Hmm. I did a quick Google and found this.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/confused-about-planning-regulations-for-height-of-garden-wall-1.2021574



    The opinion is authored by "John Spain is a member of the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (SCSI) Planning & Development Professional Group".

    I'd ask him to back up his advice but I suspect I'd have to pay for that. :D

    That makes sense, the impact outside the site but it still creates the weird anomaly in the me and you example.
    I could build a 1.7m wall - 2.0m outside my site (ie in your garden)
    You could build a 2.3m wall - 2.0m outside your site (ie in my garden).

    :o


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    #40
    Yakov P. Golyadkin
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    A little late to the show but I believe this situation is catered for in the regulations -

    "In Schedule 2... Any reference to the height of a structure... shall be construed as a reference to its height when measured from ground level... Or, where the level of the ground... is not uniform, the level of the lowest part of the ground adjacent to it."

    Part 2, Article 5(2).


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