Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

WHO - Air Pollution emergency. Do we care in Ireland

Comments

  • #2
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    sdraobs wrote: »
    Outside schools, playgrounds - cars idling pumping their fumes needlessly
    walk in autumn/winter/spring even summer evenings - wood stove smoke billing in the air
    Factories, incinerators - pumping pollution

    yet we havent taken any notice at the likes of this.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/17/air-pollution-may-be-damaging-every-organ-and-cell-in-the-body-finds-global-review

    Should we be doing something??


    It's our generations tobacco smoking. We'll look back in years to come and wonder how people lived with that crap going through their lungs every day


  • #3
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    sdraobs wrote: »
    Should we be doing something??

    Wow air pollution causes liver problems.
    There was I thinking it was the 7 bottles of wine a week.


  • #4
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    sdraobs wrote: »
    Outside schools, playgrounds - cars idling pumping their (diesel) fumes needlessly
    walk in autumn/winter/spring even summer evenings - wood stove smoke billing in the air

    Should we be doing something??

    Thanks to the Greens.
    Cnuts.


  • #5
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    We won't get fooled again ......


  • #6
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    This shouldnt have been moved IMO.
    Its a very topical issue, biggest heath threat we have at the moment.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Thanks to the Greens.
    Cnuts.

    I'm repeating myself - again.... but swearing at the Green party on this topic has really become tiresome.

    All across Europe govts and their scientific advisors were duped by the marketing and lies of the motor manufacturers.
    Not just govts where the Greens had influence e.g. the UK.

    In the years since the emissions scandal ..
    - what has the Irish govt done to rebalance the favourable and unjustified bias to diesel-fueled cars? Nothing. No Green party influence preventing action these days.
    - what have the EU done? Nothing. On the contrary it voted (all except Nederlands) to allow motor manufacturers to exceed emissions limits by 50% for years. (until 2021 afair).

    In a climate change emergency more Green party influence is vital.


  • #8
    sdraobs
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭sdraobs


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Wow air pollution causes liver problems.
    There was I thinking it was the 7 bottles of wine a week.

    The difference is that air pollution affects other people, you drinking yourself only affects you. Society will let you do whatever you want to yourself as long as it doesnt affect other people.


  • #9
    sdraobs
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭sdraobs


    Thanks for your input 'Two Wheels Good'. Nice username by the way.

    Though I sadly think the global warming battle may be lost. Instead I think the Irish Government has a chance to reduce air pollution if it were to any kind of acting.


    i emailed minister for health simon harris and minister for enviornment Richard Bruton to ask them what they were going to do, with no response.

    Even if they did a small thing like putting out an awareness campaign to stop people leaving their car to idle when there is no need, especially on warm days. This would make a big difference


  • #10
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The fact that this thread is still in its first page sadly, may tell you, OP something.

    Another such thread in the Farming Forum has got to 17 pages, so that community are more aware of the implications, especially operationally and financially for them.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057955427&page=17

    Another poster has asked for some climate change advice. It's got to page 2.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/subscription.php?do=viewsubscription&pp=20&folderid=0&sort=lastpost&order=desc&page=2


  • #11
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Air pollution is generally not an issue in Ireland. Aside from a few days a year when you get an inversion our wet windy climate generally keeps the air relatively clean.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Study in The Guardian Saturday indicates air pollution affects all the organs of the body.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/17/air-pollution-may-be-damaging-every-organ-and-cell-in-the-body-finds-global-review

    The people worst affected by a diesel car is in fact the occupants of the car. EVs will a least centralise the pollution source, at generation.
    Yes we can thank Mary Harney for her foresight, no thanks to Pee Flynn and his coal industry cronies who tried hard to stop her.


  • #13
    sdraobs
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭sdraobs


    Thanks Water John. once topics are moved out of after hours to other forums, they die a death. I'm amazed we dont care. Other EU countries are taking far more action.

    In relation to MrMusician18's comments, Air pollution is a bad issue in Ireland. Esp Enniscourthy (suggest an internet search if you don't know what i mean). Its not seen as a bad issue here as the EPA dont really measure it. If there is no measuring equipment to say its bad, then we assume its good.

    I believe in democracy so if the masses dont care, I am free to leave the country.


  • #14
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Air pollution is generally not an issue in Ireland. Aside from a few days a year when you get an inversion our wet windy climate generally keeps the air relatively clean.

    That is not correct. The European Environment Agency estimates that air pollution costs Ireland over €2 billion a year (mostly in health costs) and causes over 1,600 premature deaths every year.


  • #15
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Macha wrote: »
    That is not correct. The European Environment Agency estimates that air pollution costs Ireland over €2 billion a year (mostly in health costs) and causes over 1,600 premature deaths every year.

    I can't think of a single person that's died from air pollution in Ireland.

    Do you know anyone?


  • #16
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    sdraobs wrote: »
    Thanks Water John. once topics are moved out of after hours to other forums, they die a death. I'm amazed we dont care. Other EU countries are taking far more action.

    In relation to MrMusician18's comments, Air pollution is a bad issue in Ireland. Esp Enniscourthy (suggest an internet search if you don't know what i mean). Its not seen as a bad issue here as the EPA dont really measure it. If there is no measuring equipment to say its bad, then we assume its good.

    I believe in democracy so if the masses dont care, I am free to leave the country.

    Theres live/real time air monitoring data on the EPA webpage. Its a bit more of an issue than we think. Select your town for live data.


    We were behind on waste until the EU took proceedings
    Ditto on water and septic tanks.
    Air might be next.


  • #17
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I can't think of a single person that's died from air pollution in Ireland.

    Do you know anyone?
    Air pollution in the form of particulate matter, sulpher dioxides, ozone, mercury, nitrous oxides and others do indeed cause conditions that can shorten lives and worsen the quality of live. The fine particles that are either 10 microns or 2.5 microns in diameter quite literally go into your lungs and lodge there, or they go into your blood system.

    The World Health Organisation estimates that one third of cases of stroke, lung cancer and heart disease are due to air pollution. It can also aggravate existing respiratory conditions, such as asthma or the much more serious cystic fibrosis, (which Ireland has one of the highest rates in the world) causing lung inflammation and reduced lung capacity. There is proof that air pollution can pass through the placenta to affect the foetus.

    Do you know anyone who has died of stroke, lung cancer, heart disease or a respiratory condition? I do.


  • #18
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Macha wrote: »
    Air pollution in the form of particulate matter, sulpher dioxides, ozone, mercury, nitrous oxides and others do indeed cause conditions that can shorten lives and worsen the quality of live. The fine particles that are either 10 microns or 2.5 microns in diameter quite literally go into your lungs and lodge there, or they go into your blood system.

    The World Health Organisation estimates that one third of cases of stroke, lung cancer and heart disease are due to air pollution. It can also aggravate existing respiratory conditions, such as asthma or the much more serious cystic fibrosis, (which Ireland has one of the highest rates in the world) causing lung inflammation and reduced lung capacity. There is proof that air pollution can pass through the placenta to affect the foetus.

    Do you know anyone who has died of stroke, lung cancer, heart disease or a respiratory condition? I do.
    Air pollution was cited as the specific cause for their ailment? Indoor air is generally several times worse in quality than outdoor air btw.

    The point I'm making is that in the league of pollution in Ireland, air ranks fairly low. In 2017, Ireland didn't fail any particular EU air quality indicators iirc, so it isn't a significant issue.

    Attention might be best focused on other areas which have a greater ecological impact as a primary goal, such as banning turf burning. It would also have the side impact of improving air quality.


  • #19
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Air pollution was cited as the specific cause for their ailment? Indoor air is generally several times worse in quality than outdoor air btw.

    The point I'm making is that in the league of pollution in Ireland, air ranks fairly low. In 2017, Ireland didn't fail any particular EU air quality indicators iirc, so it isn't a significant issue.

    Attention might be best focused on other areas which have a greater ecological impact as a primary goal, such as banning turf burning. It would also have the side impact of improving air quality.


    https://www.epa.ie/irelandsenvironment/environmentalindicators/




    2018:
    "PM10 was measured at 18 stations in 2017. All stations were compliant with the EU annual limit value, however, 16 stations were above the WHO 24-hour mean guideline value. "

    "Nitrogen dioxide was measured at 15 stations in 2017. Concentrations of nitrogen dioxide were below the limit value at all sites, however, they are approaching the limit value in some large urban areas"


    Sure we'll be grand!
    You're right about the turf though.


  • #20
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Air pollution was cited as the specific cause for their ailment? Indoor air is generally several times worse in quality than outdoor air btw.
    I think the WHO statements speak for themselves. The causal link has been established.
    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The point I'm making is that in the league of pollution in Ireland, air ranks fairly low. In 2017, Ireland didn't fail any particular EU air quality indicators iirc, so it isn't a significant issue.
    That's the point I'm trying to make. Just because air quality is marginally better here than other parts of Europe, doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

    If you read the European Environment Agency's 2018 Air Quality report. it says things like:
    Concentrations of particulate matter (PM) continued to exceed the EU limit values and the WHO AQGs in large parts of Europe in 2016.
    The long-term WHO AQG for PM2.5 was exceeded at 68%
    of the stations located in all the reporting countries except Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Norway and Switzerland.

    Point being, large parts of Europe are subject to very poor air quality, including Ireland.
    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Attention might be best focused on other areas which have a greater ecological impact as a primary goal, such as banning turf burning. It would also have the side impact of improving air quality.
    Well, funnily enough, the three main sources of air pollution in Europe are also major sources of carbon emissions: the internal combustion engine, industrial installations (including fossil fuelled power plants) and agricultural spraying. So addressing climate change would bring an incredibly massive co-benefit of addressing air pollution and the associated health impacts and costs/strain on our healthcare system. That's the ultimate win-win.

    Edit: In fact, if you look at the European Commission's recent proposal for Europe to be greenhouse-gas neutral by 2050, the health-related savings from the co-benefit of reduced air pollution are quite staggering. Their analysis shows that the total savings could be as high as €200 billion a year - that's €6 trillion between 2020 and 2050. That is not, to put it mildly, an insignificant amount of money!


  • #21
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Air pollution is generally not an issue in Ireland. Aside from a few days a year when you get an inversion our wet windy climate generally keeps the air relatively clean.

    I would think air pollution is a problem in every Irish city on most days.
    In recent months I've heard radio reports on the air pollution in rural towns caused by coal and wood fires. Pollution levels were often exceeding acceptable limits by a wide margin. Admittedly a winter-time problem.

    In towns congested by traffic, incl. heavy trucks e.g. in Cork; Charleville, Buttevant, Castlemartyr, Macroom I dread to think what pedestrians are breathing daily. Children leaving school alongside continuous stop-go traffic. I just know it stinks.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Does anyone have an idea as to what the cleanest fuel to burn is, i burn turf/timber mostly, but from what I gather turf seems to be the dirtiest fuel to burn


  • #23
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Still waters wrote: »
    Does anyone have an idea as to what the cleanest fuel to burn is, i burn turf/timber mostly, but from what I gather turf seems to be the dirtiest fuel to burn

    Gas is the cleanest fossil fuel


    In terms of air quality the worst fuels are smoky coal, turf and timber


  • #24
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    two wheels good wrote:
    In a climate change emergency more Green party influence is vital.


    Considering the excessive screwing of the population the last time the Greens had a chance at power, I respectfully and completely disagree with you.


  • #25
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    [QUOTE=two wheels good;110238086]I would think air pollution is a problem in every Irish city on most days.
    In recent months I've heard radio reports on the air pollution in rural towns caused by coal and wood fires. Pollution levels were often exceeding acceptable limits by a wide margin. Admittedly a winter-time problem    .

    In towns congested by traffic, incl. heavy trucks e.g. in Cork; Charleville, Buttevant, Castlemartyr, Macroom I dread to think what pedestrians are breathing daily. Children leaving school alongside continuous stop-go traffic. I just know it stinks.[/QUOTE]

    The measured evidence doesn't agree with your supposition. Last year there were no breaches of EU air quality limits. None.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting the environment, but I am against diverting resources to an area that is actually doing ok. I'm more concerned with protecting habitats and waterways which are under direct threat and for Ireland to reduce it's carbon emissions. Thankfully these have a side effect of reducing air pollution, but it's not a primary goal.

    When talking about air quality and the effects poor air can have on the body, it's important to realise that people spend 80% of their time indoors. Indoor air quality is generally poor, with high concentrations of PM. Any health benefits gained by better outdoor air are completely undone by indoor air.


  • #26
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The measured evidence doesn't agree with your supposition. Last year there were no breaches of EU air quality limits. None.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting the environment, but I am against diverting resources to an area that is actually doing ok. I'm more concerned with protecting habitats and waterways which are under direct threat and for Ireland to reduce it's carbon emissions. Thankfully these have a side effect of reducing air pollution, but it's not a primary goal.

    When talking about air quality and the effects poor air can have on the body, it's important to realise that people spend 80% of their time indoors. Indoor air quality is generally poor, with high concentrations of PM. Any health benefits gained by better outdoor air are completely undone by indoor air.

    We're doing ok on water. Less "polluted", moving towards an average "good". Some lost high status due mainly to forestry.
    Biodiversity /Natura sites are a threat, esp from some invasive species, like chinese clam. But its not a prioritisation, we need to address them all.

    We're way behind on the CAFE directive. A of PM2.5 monitors being rolled out by EPA and local authorities.


  • #27
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The measured evidence doesn't agree with your supposition. Last year there were no breaches of EU air quality limits. None.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for protecting the environment, but I am against diverting resources to an area that is actually doing ok. I'm more concerned with protecting habitats and waterways which are under direct threat and for Ireland to reduce it's carbon emissions. Thankfully these have a side effect of reducing air pollution, but it's not a primary goal.

    When talking about air quality and the effects poor air can have on the body, it's important to realise that people spend 80% of their time indoors. Indoor air quality is generally poor, with high concentrations of PM. Any health benefits gained by better outdoor air are completely undone by indoor air.

    I accept those points. No breaches does sound encouraging. But I smell and taste the exhaust fumes almost daily. One traffic jam is going to generate higher level locally even if temporarily.
    Regarding the radio prog. I mentioned earlier; I remember one contributor saying how little monitoring was being done at local levels. Are any council or EPA employees sampling on the main street of rural towns on a regular basis?
    Poor indoor air quality. That is surprising. Due to open fires? or poor ventilation?


  • #28
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    two wheels good wrote: »
    I accept those points. No breaches does sound encouraging. But I smell and taste the exhaust fumes almost daily. One traffic jam is going to generate higher level locally even if temporarily.
    Regarding the radio prog. I mentioned earlier; I remember one contributor saying how little monitoring was being done at local levels. Are any council or EPA employees sampling on the main street of rural towns on a regular basis?
    Poor indoor air quality. That is surprising. Due to open fires? or poor ventilation?
    Open fires and poor ventilation is a problem. But it's generally cooking that causes the most air quality issues indoors


  • #29
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Considering the excessive screwing of the population the last time the Greens had a chance at power, I respectfully and completely disagree with you.


    I realise that's a view held by many people.
    I don't know how the emergency can be tackled without extra cost and taxes. We're going to pay one way or the other - flood defences, insurance costs, storm damage,community relocation, EU fines, investment cost for energy and transport ... Elsewhere many people will be paying with their lives.

    Air travel won't be reduced without the nudge of higher prices e.g. VAT on fuel. Or maybe implementing individual allocations of flight allowances; a recent proposal I read.
    The stag parties in middle europe and the multiple weekend city breaks won't suddenly stop due to public concern. Seems to me many people haven't got past the "I'm a diligent recycler. Isn't that good enough" stage.
    And btw I don't claim my lifestyle is green enough either.


  • #30
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Open fires and poor ventilation is a problem. But it's generally cooking that causes the most air quality issues indoors

    Interesting. Here my door is opened and closed many times..

    No choice re heating by turf until they reduce ESB prices.I have a solid fuel stove that heats the water and cook by bottled gas


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    two wheels good wrote: »
    I would think air pollution is a problem in every Irish city on most days.
    In recent months I've heard radio reports on the air pollution in rural towns caused by coal and wood fires. Pollution levels were often exceeding acceptable limits by a wide margin. Admittedly a winter-time problem.

    In towns congested by traffic, incl. heavy trucks e.g. in Cork; Charleville, Buttevant, Castlemartyr, Macroom I dread to think what pedestrians are breathing daily. Children leaving school alongside continuous stop-go traffic. I just know it stinks.

    Until I stopped going to the mainland, the few times I did the traffic fumes choked far more than our turf fires here on the island.


  • #32
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Winter heating remains an issue for many. This came up on boards last winter. Out here (offshore island) we burn turf. I buy mine from my neighbour who cuts it himself.So no travel fumes and it supports the island economy.
    The alternative is bringing in coal; Polish coal is the most available so a hefty transport issue .


  • #33
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Winter heating remains an issue for many. This came up on boards last winter. Out here (offshore island) we burn turf. I buy mine from my neighbour who cuts it himself.So no travel fumes and it supports the island economy.
    The alternative is bringing in coal; Polish coal is the most available so a hefty transport issue .
    The alternative is the state helping pay for a serious retrofitting scheme plus subsidising heat pumps and solar PV.

    In case there was any doubt of the poor air quality, at least in Dublin the EPA published some damning figures today: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0708/1060952-nitrogen-oxide/


Advertisement