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Gave tenant notice now cc ask they to move to Hap

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    #32
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Threshold are a tenant advocacy group, state funded, to push tenant's rights. Threshold will not assist you- nor will they advise you in any manner- as you're not a tenant. Threshold will actively advise tenants to do whatever they have to do- to keep themselves in a property- even if this means overholding and/or changing the contract etc- even after valid notice of termination of tenancy has issued. Threshold are on the record issuing illegal or dubious advice- they never get hauled up on it though- because landlords don't chase tenants when it costs a landlord money but the tenant has nothing to loose.

    You issued a valid termination of tenancy.
    You are not under any obligation to do anything- other than point this out to the tenant. You are not refusing to accept HAP- you are simply ending the tenancy, validly, for the purpose of selling the property- and presumably have served correct and accurate notice to the tenant along with the statutory declaration.

    Make 100% sure you have all our documentation in order.

    I'd also suggest you contact the local authority and explain the situation to them- as the tenant has obviously told them some story. They cannot rent a new property under HAP for less than 2 years (to the best of my knowledge). It looks like the local authority are trying to bounce you into not selling- and instead renting to the current tenants for the foreseeable future- despite you already having served statutory notice to the tenant.

    He is refusing HAP though. There are 3 months till the end of the tenancy, the tenant has requested HAP for the remainder of their tenancy. He must follow the process up to the point where it asks something unreasonable of him(like a new 2 years lease). If he refuses it simply because its HAP and he is terminating the tenancy, he could fall afoul of the discrimination laws.


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    #33
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You need proper legal advice here. RTB cannot insist you rent a property if you already have given notice to sell before they applied.
    You have to be very clear on the timeline and remember a PRTB staff is not a legal authority. They get stuff wrong.
    You aren't refusing HAP you have nothing to rent.

    Refusing HAP is not the problem, it is discriminating against a tenant on the basis of HAP. There is no issue with you refusing to rent beyond the notice period. In the meantime I would just fill out whatever forms are required but be clear on the forms that you have served notice to quit on the tenant and that the tenant will be required to vacate on the date it expires. So clearly you do not have to undertake in any form to rent for two years.


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    #34
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Fian wrote: »
    Refusing HAP is not the problem, it is discriminating against a tenant on the basis of HAP. There is no issue with you refusing to rent beyond the notice period. In the meantime I would just fill out whatever forms are required but be clear on the forms that you have served notice to quit on the tenant and that the tenant will be required to vacate on the date it expires. So clearly you do not have to undertake in any form to rent for two years.

    The tenant is on rent allowance and never refused this. Going to Hap seems a lot of work only for them to leave in a few months.
    We also have to prove so much which will cost us, copies of deeds takes a while to get, proof of NPR, proof or rtb reg, bank accounts, letter from bank allowing rental to council(still don't know if they will allow this, property tax tax clearance etc.
    Contacted citizens information and they said we cannot refuse Hap and must go through the process even though the house will be up for sale shortly.
    The rent allowance will continue to be paid as long as the tenant pays their share. As someone else said there go through the process wasting time and council workers toms and then they will leave.

    Rent allowance is paid by social welfare but they want to move it to the councils budget where Hap is processed and paid out of.
    So only moving from one budget to another.


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    #35
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Go to the council. A friend of mine was in a HAP house and the landlord was talking about selling up. He went to the council and offered them the house for asking price, inspectors, engineers and a council valuer came to inspect the house. I think it was done and dusted within 5 months.

    It could be different as my friend has two kids, has MS and there's a lack of bungalows in my area. Could be worth a try


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    #36
    rightmove
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭rightmove


    My notice was invalid. Threshold rang my agent and asked if I would go hap. This would have increased my take by 30% as I was below market in rpz. I refused and issued valid notice. Funny how they didn't have to stick to 4% with hap offer...It's a joke.


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    #37
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    tvjunki wrote: »
    RioSafari wrote: »
    I was in a very similar situation as you. We were asked by our tenant to agree to sign up with HAP. We wanted to sell and this seems like a good time so we gave the tenant the required notice. The time came and she had nowhere to go. We extended informally for a few weeks.

    I happened to call Threshold, who told me that a new investment fund was buying rental property with sitting tenants- but here's the kicker- they have to be on HAP.

    Anyway, that was six weeks ago. We're now sale agreed at full market value, deposit is with my solicitor and our application for HAP is with the county council. As soon as we are approved for HAP, we'll close the sale.
    All done in less than 3 months and would have been even quicker if the tenant was already on HAP.

    It's Fingal County Council by the way


    That is crazy you have to set up and sign for Hap and then you can sell to threshold.

    He's not selling to Threshold.

    The investment fund wants to buy up properties where sitting tenants are eligible for HAP.

    IF the poster is getting the full market value of a vacant procession home then it's a fantastic outcome.

    Landlord gets to sell at no financial loss, the tenant gets to stay in their home and enjoy reduced rental costs on HAP.

    Win win for both landlord and tenant and the property stays in rental market.

    Unless further due dilligence reveals the fund to be a bunch of chancers I see no downside here.

    Threshold merely told the poster that this fund were in the market.


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    #38
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    He is refusing HAP though. There are 3 months till the end of the tenancy, the tenant has requested HAP for the remainder of their tenancy. He must follow the process up to the point where it asks something unreasonable of him(like a new 2 years lease). If he refuses it simply because its HAP and he is terminating the tenancy, he could fall afoul of the discrimination laws.

    No the tenant received a letter saying they should apply for Hap as they have been on rent allowance. Rent allowance was supposed to be a temporary measure(writing on the letter). I personally did not receive anything from the council.


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    #39
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    rightmove wrote: »
    My notice was invalid. Threshold rang my agent and asked if I would go hap. This would have increased my take by 30% as I was below market in rpz. I refused and issued valid notice. Funny how they didn't have to stick to 4% with hap offer...It's a joke.

    Rpz rules apply even with hap. You can't just increase the rent above your 4%. Rpz rules is was supposed to apply how can they change this? I would expect a rtb hearing asking for the overpayment back.


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    #40
    rightmove
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭rightmove


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Rpz rules apply even with hap.

    They didn't. Tenant offered more A lot more. I said no as rpz. Threshold rang and offered more via hap so yes they do break the rpz when it suits


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    #41
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I don't think there's anything in the legislation that prevents anyone offering more. Landlords accepting more is likely to be a problem.


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    rightmove wrote: »
    They didn't. Tenant offered more A lot more. I said no as rpz. Threshold rang and offered more via hap so yes they do break the rpz when it suits

    I wonder was it a trap. If you'd accepted they have got you a nice fine for breaking the RPZ.


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    #43
    rightmove
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭rightmove


    beauf wrote: »
    I wonder was it a trap. If you'd accepted they have got you a nice fine for breaking the RPZ.

    Could be but why do that when you are 40% under market. Agree though...


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