Rental agency only HAP clients offered

polydactyl · 05-11-2018 9:18pm #1

First rental of apt in Dublin. Newly done up, new appliances, market rent. Hired letting agency as too busy to do it myself. Just got an email to say only HAP clients interested. Now I will look at those clients obv when I get the references but am I right to be a bit wary after the recent announcement about agencies getting 500 bonus for HAP clients???? It’s in a very sought after area.

10pennymixup · 05-11-2018 9:24pm

polydactyl wrote: »

First rental of apt in Dublin. Newly done up, new appliances, market rent. Hired letting agency as too busy to do it myself. Just got an email to say only HAP clients interested. Now I will look at those clients obv when I get the references but am I right to be a bit wary after the recent announcement about agencies getting 500 bonus for HAP clients???? It’s in a very sought after area.

That is fierce strange.

Nearly worth your while sticking up your own ad with email only replies, just to see if they're taking the mick.

Mrs OBumble · 05-11-2018 9:56pm

Fire that agency ASAP. You cannot trust them.

polydactyl · 05-11-2018 10:35pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Fire that agency ASAP. You cannot trust them.

Have not signed anything or paid anything yet so may well go with another!

tvjunki · 05-11-2018 10:42pm

polydactyl wrote: »

First rental of apt in Dublin. Newly done up, new appliances, market rent. Hired letting agency as too busy to do it myself. Just got an email to say only HAP clients interested. Now I will look at those clients obv when I get the references but am I right to be a bit wary after the recent announcement about agencies getting 500 bonus for HAP clients???? It’s in a very sought after area.

Very easy to manage yourself. Advert on letting site with email only contact. Get throw away SIM card until you get the tenant.

If you use an agent you are paying them a fee to provide YOU a service. They are not there to provide the government with a service.

You should be offered all types of tenants so definitely strange. I think I would be firing them and get feedback from other landlords agencies they use and definitely move on...
You need at least 3references and don't take the latest one. Don't trust the agency to check the references either. X tenant moved into a house managed by agency. I did not get a call..
Review everything they give you.

Not everyone is on hap...

Andycap8 · 05-11-2018 10:53pm

Eh, wasn't there just something in the news about this?

The local authorities are offering payments to letting agents to place HAP tenants. So they get €500 on top of whatever fee you'd be paying them. Means a HAP tenant is more valuable to them than a regular tenant.

Link to Journal article below

https://www.thejournal.ie/hap-letting-agents-4317277-Nov2018/

ShaneC93 · 05-11-2018 11:47pm

Definitely very dodgy. For a market-rate apartment in Dublin you're looking at 150-200 inquiries in the first 24-48hrs if it's on Daft.. Chances of all of them being HAP is slim to nil. If it's Dublin City centre you can usually expect 15-25% of applicants to look to use HAP, may be higher for the suburbs.

power pants · 06-11-2018 8:14am

That’s disgusting that the government are paying 500 to letting agents, absolutely disgusting

Gileadi · 06-11-2018 8:18am

power pants wrote: »

That’s disgusting that the government are paying 500 to landlords , absolutely disgusting

500 to letting agents not landlords, but don’t let me (or facts) get in the way of a landlord bashing rant

power pants · 06-11-2018 8:25am

Gileadi wrote: »

500 to letting agents not landlords, but don’t let me (or facts) get in the way of a landlord bashing rant

Was a simple error
Not bashing any landlords

Graces7 · 06-11-2018 10:18am

power pants wrote: »

Was a simple error
Not bashing any landlords

Did you read the article? Every time the govt takes measures v homelessness.?

The discrimination against HAP tenants?

cruizer101 · 06-11-2018 10:33am

Graces7 wrote: »

Every time the govt takes measures v homelessness.?

This isn't a measure against homelessness though, its just moving a problem, its like sweeping the dirt from your kitchen into you hall and not actually picking it up.
To reduce homelessness more houses are needed any other "solution" is just to try and make them look good.

Re the OP either way I wouldn't be using the agency but I would question them on it first to see what their response is.

The_Conductor · 06-11-2018 10:51am

OP- the fact of the matter is- in the greater Dublin area- less than 20% of prospective tenants are eligible for HAP (the main reason its not higher is a stipulation that a HAP tenant *HAS* to stay in a property for a minimum of 2 years after getting a property). What the agency are saying- patently isn't true. I don't know who they are, nor do I want to know- but you need to find an agency who work for you- not the government. The 500 quid into their hands- creates an immense conflict of interest for agencies- and this particular agency- have patently chosen who their paymaster is- and it isn't you.

As for the comment about HAP tenancies being higher in the suburbs- that doesn't hold water either. I helped a colleague recently with a property in Lucan- he had his choice of tenants within an hour of putting it up on DAFT- and had to edit his advertisement within the hour to remove his contact details- as he was getting deluged.

Drop the agency you've been talking to- they are not acting in your best interests.

When you are vetting tenants- you may choose to go with a HAP tenant- if they are the best choice for you- however- they will be on a list of prospective tenants you're vetting- and whether they are a HAP tenant or not- is not pertinent to vetting them (nor may you discriminate against them for being a HAP tenant).

Go get a new agency- or put the property up on DAFT yourself (and prepare to be snowed under by prospective tenants).

spaceHopper · 06-11-2018 10:58am

Tell the agent you've had second thoughts and are going to sell it / let it to a friend. You know HAP pay a month in arrears instead of up front.

The_Conductor · 06-11-2018 11:03am

spaceHopper wrote: »

Tell the agent you've had second thoughts and are going to sell it / let it to a friend. You know HAP pay a month in arrears instead of up front.

In Dublin they will pay in advance and pay 2-3 months deposit- the same as any other tenant will pay- if a landlord demands all prospective tenants meet the same criteria.

You can't discriminate against HAP tenants- however, you shouldn't kneel over backwards to facilitate them either- and if it is an issue- local authorities in Dublin- have recognised this (not as a rule- more as an infrequent practice) and are willing to negotiate (obviously it would be up to the tenant to organise this- not the landlord- as the running involved is pretty mental).

The norm in much of Dublin is first and last month's rent in advance- along with two month's deposit. Many tenants will offer a significantly higher deposit (4-5-6 months deposit are far from unusual). Obviously even if you have a massive deposit- you still need to properly vet the tenant!!!

Foweva Awone · 06-11-2018 11:09am

Any chance the property is overpriced, or are you looking for an excessive deposit? Both cases could result in only HAP tenants applying, as the rent/deposit isn't coming out of their own pocket.

power pants · 06-11-2018 11:20am

Graces7 wrote: »

Did you read the article? Every time the govt takes measures v homelessness.?

The discrimination against HAP tenants?

So people that work and contribute to society face even greater challenges in securing a place to rent with this new initiative?

This country is all about the lazy and the super rich

The average worker is completely ****ed over

alias no.9 · 06-11-2018 11:56am

power pants wrote: »

So people that work and contribute to society face even greater challenges in securing a place to rent with this new initiative?

This country is all about the lazy and the super rich

The average worker is completely ****ed over

My recent experience in vetting tennants was that most respondents who said that they were on HAP were also working. It was an eye-opener for me.

It seems to be a significant step forward over RA where taking up employment would have meant losing RA in many cases. It still doesn't address the root of the problem which is a lack of supply but takes away one of the unfortunate side effects.

06-11-2018 12:03pm

polydactyl wrote: »

First rental of apt in Dublin. Newly done up, new appliances, market rent. Hired letting agency as too busy to do it myself. Just got an email to say only HAP clients interested. Now I will look at those clients obv when I get the references but am I right to be a bit wary after the recent announcement about agencies getting 500 bonus for HAP clients???? It’s in a very sought after area.

Don't ever get an agency to find you new tenants. It takes a day, 2 max, to hold an open viewing and whittle down tenants. You get a much better feel for people when you speak to them and see the type of questions they ask. Plus, most agencies charge a full month's rent for the privilege.

Thibus · 06-11-2018 12:09pm

Hi Op,
Drop the agency, sounds like they are screening for HAP on the back of the e500 "incentive".
I have been a tenant in the past and am currently a landlord and in my experience with letting agencies is that they take anybody without proper checks and are less than helpful once a tenant is in place, especially when it comes to tenant having problems.
You would do a better job of screening a tenant yourself, always trust your gut.
With regards to HAP, I haven't dealt with anyone on it yet, bit apparently there is a lot of work involved in getting the apartment approved to the HAP requirements.

Tar.Aldarion · 06-11-2018 12:13pm

That scheme is pretty good even though it's just paying off estate agents/ I know people who can't find anywhere to live because even when they are offered a place it gets withdrawn because they are on HAP. Illegal but nothing they can do about it. They are much more vulnerable right now that people with means.

Btw OP my best friend is on HAP, is an amazing tenant and would be interested in the place I'd say

She just can't find somewhere to live.

AlanG · 06-11-2018 12:15pm

If your asking rent is particularly high then it is likely that only HAP people will be able to afford it. Most outside of HAP cannot come close to funding the rents many properties are seeking. Homeless HAP in particular will pay rents that no one on the average wage could fund. Plenty of hard working good tenants are on HAP so you should consider them.

Thestones · 06-11-2018 12:19pm

The €500 incentive is ridiculous. How can an agency be trusted to pick best tenants when there is a financial benefit to picking one with HAP. All the government have done is home more HAP people which in turn means those without HAP paying by themselves might struggle to get a place, end result is same, they haven't provided any additional homes, so same amount of people will have nowhere to live. I actually think this will backfire massively, landlords are wary enough these days and if agents can't be trusted to act independently then I'd imagine there will be a reduction in landlords using their service.

STB. · 06-11-2018 12:44pm

@OP...... Lets be clever.

Get one of your friends to express an interest.

See if they report it back to you.

When they don't, go to town on them.

You'd swear Estate Agents actually owned properties. The truth is they have nothing to sell or rent. They are glorified sales agents and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

I was wondering how soon these scenarios would arise. It didn't take long.

Graces7 · 06-11-2018 3:54pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That scheme is pretty good even though it's just paying off estate agents/ I know people who can't find anywhere to live because even when they are offered a place it gets withdrawn because they are on HAP. Illegal but nothing they can do about it. They are much more vulnerable right now that people with means.

Btw OP my best friend is on HAP, is an amazing tenant and would be interested in the place I'd say She just can't find somewhere to live.

Thanks. Your post says it all..I was discriminated against as some here are advocating. Calling folk on HAP lazy? Pensioners and disabled need a home.

Yes,more houses are needed but that takes time. Helping HAPfolk not be turned away with winter ahead is very needful.

I narrowly avoided being homeless this time last year..been an excellent tenant manyyears

Graces7 · 06-11-2018 3:56pm

Thestones wrote: »

The €500 incentive is ridiculous. How can an agency be trusted to pick best tenants when there is a financial benefit to picking one with HAP. All the government have done is home more HAP people which in turn means those without HAP paying by themselves might struggle to get a place, end result is same, they haven't provided any additional homes, so same amount of people will have nowhere to live. I actually think this will backfire massively, landlords are wary enough these days and if agents can't be trusted to act independently then I'd imagine there will be a reduction in landlords using their service.

I think the incentive is not E500 each but for5? Maybe you can get the report up?

cruizer101 · 06-11-2018 4:01pm

I can't find where I saw the details but it is 500 each but gets paid after place 5 so get 2,500.

power pants · 06-11-2018 4:07pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks. Your post says it all..I was discriminated against as some here are advocating. Calling folk on HAP lazy? Pensioners and disabled need a home.

Yes,more houses are needed but that takes time. Helping HAPfolk not be turned away with winter ahead is very needful.

I narrowly avoided being homeless this time last year..been an excellent tenant manyyears

Well if you are NOT working and on hap , yes you are lazy

Obviously I don’t include pensioners and some people with disabilities. Then again so many wasters claim disability with their impossible to prove mental issues

Just think it’s wrong that there should be any incentive to be paid to estate agents to house these

Renting is tough for everyone not just the lazy

Claw Hammer · 06-11-2018 4:52pm

Agent is definitely pulling a scam. If they take €500 from the got they are not allowed charge you a fee. Point this out to them.

tvjunki · 06-11-2018 4:55pm

So now those that cannot or do not want to apply for Hap will be discriminated.

Ray Palmer · 06-11-2018 5:46pm

Weird how people are suggesting the rent could be too high for everyone but HAP. The constant complaint has been rent is too high for HAP rent so the complete opposite

tvjunki · 06-11-2018 9:12pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

My recent experience in vetting tennants was that most respondents who said that they were on HAP were also working. It was an eye-opener for me.

It seems to be a significant step forward over RA where taking up employment would have meant losing RA in many cases. It still doesn't address the root of the problem which is a lack of supply but takes away one of the unfortunate side effects.

Not when the tenant can pay 700 but chooses to apply for hap so they only pay I think a minimum of 12.5% of their income. I had a tenant on RA and wanted hap as she would only have to pay 325 instead of 700.
so 325 for a 3bed house.

Funny thing is many in Ireland are paying more than 50% in rent or mortgage..
The landlord still pays a minumum of 50% of the rent in tax...

Say rent was 1200 landlord pays 600 in tax and USC. Then has to pay mortgage insurance repairs maintenance etc so more than likely in the negative cashflow.
Tenant gives 350 on hap balance paid by the council.

so 1200-600 tax and usc leaves 600. Tenant pays 350 balance to landlord and the government is 250.

The figures do not stack up at all.Basically the landlord is subsiding the housing.
Reits pay little or no tax and they are now the largest holders of properties for rent in Ireland.

Sorry going off point here.

antoinolachtnai · 06-11-2018 9:36pm

I think it is more accurate to say that when you take tax into account the government is getting tremendous value. The local authority can house a family in Dublin for around 600 euros a month net.

Hard to justify spending 200k building a house when you can get that sort of price including maintenance and service charges. It is easy to see why the government doesn’t build much housing.

ShaneC93 · 06-11-2018 11:19pm

AlanG wrote: »

If your asking rent is particularly high then it is likely that only HAP people will be able to afford it. Most outside of HAP cannot come close to funding the rents many properties are seeking. Homeless HAP in particular will pay rents that no one on the average wage could fund. Plenty of hard working good tenants are on HAP so you should consider them.

I disagree and say the the more expensive the rent, the less HAP tenants you will attract. HAP is capped to a certain amount per month depending on area, amount in the household etc. whereas in the Dublin rental market right now even properties considerably over the market rate get snapped up sharpish.

All ranges of earners are facing the lack of available properties, there's plenty of people earning over the average struggling to find a place to that will snap up essentially anything that comes up even if it ends up being more than they wanted to pay.

tvjunki · 07-11-2018 12:24am

ShaneC93 wrote: »

I disagree and say the the more expensive the rent, the less HAP tenants you will attract. HAP is capped to a certain amount per month depending on area, amount in the household etc. whereas in the Dublin rental market right now even properties considerably over the market rate get snapped up sharpish.

All ranges of earners are facing the lack of available properties, there's plenty of people earning over the average struggling to find a place to that will snap up essentially anything that comes up even if it ends up being more than they wanted to pay.

There is flexibility.
If the tenant has a family and is at risk of being homeless the council are allowed increase the hap ceiling or allows the tenant pays over the limit.

stinkbomb · 09-11-2018 12:31pm

power pants wrote: »

That’s disgusting that the government are paying 500 to letting agents, absolutely disgusting

Yes, but its disgusting that landlords won't rent to people on HAP and so desperate measures are needed so that people on HAP are not all homeless.

I hate the bonus too but I'd hate even more that landlords refuse everyone on HAP and nothing happens.

Graces7 · 09-11-2018 1:14pm

power pants wrote: »

Well if you are NOT working and on hap , yes you are lazy

Obviously I don’t include pensioners and some people with disabilities. Then again so many wasters claim disability with their impossible to prove mental issues

Just think it’s wrong that there should be any incentive to be paid to estate agents to house these

Renting is tough for everyone not just the lazy

So you know everyone on HAP personally? I see :rolleyes:

Graces7 · 09-11-2018 1:17pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Yes, but its disgusting that landlords won't rent to people on HAP and so desperate measures are needed so that people on HAP are not all homeless.

I hate the bonus too but I'd hate even more that landlords refuse everyone on HAP and nothing happens.

And it is a total discrimination that gives no quarter to pensioners and disableds... I was refused on those grounds. The naysayers maybe need to respect the decisions of those in charge of granting HAP.

stinkbomb · 09-11-2018 1:49pm

Most people on HAP are working anyway. They aren't lazy, they are poor. It's not their fault they can't pay out 2k a month to house their families when they don't earn much more than that.

power pants · 09-11-2018 2:22pm

Graces7 wrote: »

So you know everyone on HAP personally? I see :rolleyes:

I don't nor wish too.

I will say no more on the matter as we have polar opposite views of contributing to society via work.

stinkbomb · 09-11-2018 3:27pm

power pants wrote: »

I don't nor wish too.

I will say no more on the matter as we have polar opposite views of contributing to society via work.

But you don't seem to understand that most people claiming HAP are in work and contributing to society, and many more have done so but are now unable to via illness or age, so your view is an uninformed and therefore invalid one.

power pants · 09-11-2018 4:02pm

I understand fully. My initial post said people who ARE not working on HAP.

What about people who are just over the threshold to claim HAP but are now marginalised even further from securing rented accommodation due to this incentive scheme?

my anger and frustration is directed towards the long term unemployed on HAP and NOT the ones that are working on HAP.

STB. · 09-11-2018 11:05pm

stinkbomb wrote: »

Yes, but its disgusting that landlords won't rent to people on HAP and so desperate measures are needed so that people on HAP are not all homeless.

I hate the bonus too but I'd hate even more that landlords refuse everyone on HAP and nothing happens.

There is nothing disgusting about it.

It is not the job of private landlords to supply nor have anything to do with social housing. Thats the governments job.

Klonker · 10-11-2018 1:51am

stinkbomb wrote: »

Most people on HAP are working anyway.

Got any stats to prove that?

Old diesel · 10-11-2018 11:25am

tvjunki wrote: »

Not when the tenant can pay 700 but chooses to apply for hap so they only pay I think a minimum of 12.5% of their income. I had a tenant on RA and wanted hap as she would only have to pay 325 instead of 700.
so 325 for a 3bed house.

Funny thing is many in Ireland are paying more than 50% in rent or mortgage..
The landlord still pays a minumum of 50% of the rent in tax...

Say rent was 1200 landlord pays 600 in tax and USC. Then has to pay mortgage insurance repairs maintenance etc so more than likely in the negative cashflow.
Tenant gives 350 on hap balance paid by the council.

so 1200-600 tax and usc leaves 600. Tenant pays 350 balance to landlord and the government is 250.

The figures do not stack up at all.Basically the landlord is subsiding the housing.
Reits pay little or no tax and they are now the largest holders of properties for rent in Ireland.

Sorry going off point here.

How would the tenant paying 700 euros instead of 325 allow the situation to be better for you.

And why is "what someone can pay" never an issue when rent is too high in relation to their income.

But only when it's perceived she's paying too little

Graces7 · 10-11-2018 12:13pm

power pants wrote: »

I understand fully. My initial post said people who ARE not working on HAP.

What about people who are just over the threshold to claim HAP but are now marginalised even further from securing rented accommodation due to this incentive scheme?

my anger and frustration is directed towards the long term unemployed on HAP and NOT the ones that are working on HAP.

So you are averring that Social Welfare are paying false claimants?

power pants · 10-11-2018 12:26pm

Graces7 wrote: »

So you are averring that Social Welfare are paying false claimants?

It’s not that difficult to understand what my point is.

I do believe we have a large proportion of lazy work shy people. It is a disgrace that there is now a government incentive to house these over people who work and contribute.

I feel like we are going in circles here.

Graces7 · 10-11-2018 1:04pm

power pants wrote: »

It’s not that difficult to understand what my point is.

I do believe we have a large proportion of lazy work shy people. It is a disgrace that there is now a government incentive to house these over people who work and contribute.

I feel like we are going in circles here.

It is VERY difficult to see your point. Or rather to validate it. Your anger comes across but not the validity or reasonableness or humanity of it.

Everyone needs a roof over their heads. Whoever and whatever they are. That is the basis of our welfare state. If the applicants fill the requirements they qualify. Not a question of deserving simply of need.

So you do think Social Welfare pay out wrongly? So why not tackle that aspect? Everyone needs a house, whoever and whatever they are and this provision may help even out the cracks.

And I am sure that - or hoping that- landlords do not quiz prospective tenants along dubious lines .

power pants · 10-11-2018 1:23pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It is VERY difficult to see your point. Or rather to validate it. Your anger comes across but not the validity or reasonableness or humanity of it.

Everyone needs a roof over their heads. Whoever and whatever they are. That is the basis of our welfare state. If the applicants fill the requirements they qualify. Not a question of deserving simply of need.

So you do think Social Welfare pay out wrongly? So why not tackle that aspect? Everyone needs a house, whoever and whatever they are and this provision may help even out the cracks.

And I am sure that - or hoping that- landlords do not quiz prospective tenants along dubious lines .

They have a roof over their heads. Hostels. Don’t like it? Get a job? Stop breeding .

Keep the HAP scheme going but stop the incentive scheme of favouring them over working people.

Yes , I’m angry as I hate, actually I despise lazy people who choose not to work

I’m a single parent, no family here, average wage but I make it work

I get up at 5:45 and home for 7:30 mon to fri, nothing in life is easy.

How can I when others won’t and use their circumstances as an excuse not to work

That’s my point

I don’t care about the long term unemployed that are not pensioners or genuinely, genuinely unable to work

The rest can live in hostels and either better themselves and contribute or carry on living in hostels

I’m ****ed to see why I should be taxed any more . Be thankful of your hostel.

Graham · 10-11-2018 1:31pm

Mod Note

Graces7, power pants, take it to PM.

stinkbomb · 10-11-2018 3:51pm

power pants wrote: »

They have a roof over their heads. Hostels. Don’t like it? Get a job? Stop breeding .

Keep the HAP scheme going but stop the incentive scheme of favouring them over working people.

Yes , I’m angry as I hate, actually I despise lazy people who choose not to work

I’m a single parent, no family here, average wage but I make it work

I get up at 5:45 and home for 7:30 mon to fri, nothing in life is easy.

How can I when others won’t and use their circumstances as an excuse not to work

That’s my point

I don’t care about the long term unemployed that are not pensioners or genuinely, genuinely unable to work

The rest can live in hostels and either better themselves and contribute or carry on living in hostels

I’m ****ed to see why I should be taxed any more . Be thankful of your hostel.

Yet AGAIN, most people on HAP are WORKING. You yet again allege they are all lazy non workers. You might be happy with everyone shoved into hostels but what about all the children that come with them? Put them in a cupboard under the stairs?

Rental agency only HAP clients offered

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