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Richard Branson apologises for photo

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    #92
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As long as the people that he had on his team were not employed because of the colour of their skin (and we have no reason to assume otherwise), advising him to involve black people PURELY because of the colour of their skin is absolutely tokenism

    The likelihood that the the 8 best hires were all white in a country of 80% black people is small. It's 1 in 128, or 0.78%.

    Even so, it projects the wrong image to a country in which you are trying to do business as well as ignoring the potential insights which someone of a particular demographic could have in to others of a similar background which would (according to every HR book) likely benefit business and creating contacts and opportunities.


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    #93
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You are saying that it is ill advised because there is no black people there. If you were advising him, would you tell him that he should include some black people in the photo so people wouldn't be mad?

    That right there is tokenism of black people.

    I’d advise him to hire people that are culturally and demographically tapped into 80% of his potential market, and bring on professionals with experience and insight into those demographics so that our business was geared for success. Sue me.


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    #94
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    As long as the people that he had on his team were not employed because of the colour of their skin (and we have no reason to assume otherwise), advising him to involve black people PURELY because of the colour of their skin is absolutely tokenism

    If I set up an Entrepreneurial Center in Rome I’d hire some Romans.


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    #95
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    the question is, do we believe that billionaire richard branson choses the people he works with based on the colour of their skin?


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    #96
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    the question is, do we believe that billionaire choses the people he works with based on the colour of their skin?

    No.


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    #97
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Overheal wrote: »
    No.

    do we believe that he should?


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    #98
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Overheal wrote: »
    If I set up an Entrepreneurial Center in Rome I’d hire some Romans.
    Are these people not South African ?


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    #99
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    And people will moan when he says **** this and scrap it.

    It's got to the stage you need to plan a photo in advance for fear of not meeting the PC checklist. Would prefer if he'd told everyone to go n ****, someone needs to stop this nonsense.


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    #100
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    do we believe that he should?

    Not repeating myself lest this become a circular thread of some 8,000 posts


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    #101
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Are these people not South African ?

    Not enough for 8/10 South Africans apparently.


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    #102
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not repeating myself lest this become a circular thread of some 8,000 posts

    i'll answer for you. Richard Branson does not choose the people he works with based on the colour of their skin nor should he.


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    #103
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i'll answer got you. Richard Branson does not choose the people he works with based on the colour of their skin nor should he.

    I already answered for myself thanks.


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    #104
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The likelihood that the the 8 best hires were all white in a country of 80% black people is small. It's 1 in 128, or 0.78%.

    How did you calculate that?


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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’d advise him to hire people that are culturally and demographically tapped into 80% of his potential market, and bring on professionals with experience and insight into those demographics so that our business was geared for success. Sue me.

    So stripping away boardroom talk you are saying "Yes, I would tell him to hire blacks because the colour of their skin matches loads of people. And because blacks know what blacks want, we would earn more money"


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    #106
    HorrorScope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭HorrorScope


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not enough for 8/10 South Africans apparently.

    Let’s flip the script for a laugh, the recent NTA campaign here had a backlash about there being not enough “whiteness”

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/nta-anti-racism-campaign-complaints-4833619-Oct2019/%3famp=1

    Does your logic extend to this, considering Ireland is a mostly “white” country? Those complaints seem valid now if we are going to get all offended about a photo of white people in an 80% black country. It’s nearly an identical reaction on the opposite side of the coin to Bransons photo and the reaction it’s getting.


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    #107
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’d advise him to hire people that are culturally and demographically tapped into 80% of his potential market, and bring on professionals with experience and insight into those demographics so that our business was geared for success. Sue me.

    I'd hire the best qualified people for the job, never mind their race. Sue me.


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    #108
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So stripping away boardroom talk you are saying "Yes, I would tell him to hire blacks because the colour of their skin matches loads of people. And because blacks know what blacks want, we would earn more money"

    If I did business in Rome I would hire some Romans. If I’m doing business in Montana I’ll hire some Montanans, if I’m in South Africa I would hire some South Africans. As there are two South Africa’s, in effect, I would be sure to make hires from both.


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    #109
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    the question is, do we believe that billionaire richard branson choses the people he works with based on the colour of their skin?

    Nah, I'd say he needs look at the process if only minorities got picked. Something flawed there I'd imagine and if not, issues elsewhere in the system over all. Imagine similar in Ireland with all black people. There'd be questions surely?
    On a purely brand view point, it being the country or apartheid, by cold capitalist logic, be a good idea to vary them.


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    #110
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Overheal wrote:
    If I did business in Rome I would hire some Romans. If I’m doing business in Montana I’ll hire some Montanans, if I’m in South Africa I would hire some South Africans. As there are two South Africa’s, in effect, I would be sure to make hires from both.

    So you agree with "positive" discrimination?


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    #111
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ironicname wrote: »
    So you agree with "positive" discrimination?

    I agree with hiring people local to where I want to be. If I want to do far-reaching business in the state of Texas I’d surely want to hire people that were native there and I would want to diversify our experience base with people from around the state, not just in one county or city. My venture in Texas enterprise would look weird with no Texans informing me.


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    If I did business in Rome I would hire some Romans. If I’m doing business in Montana I’ll hire some Montanans, if I’m in South Africa I would hire some South Africans. As there are two South Africa’s, in effect, I would be sure to make hires from both.

    So you would hire someone purely based on their skin colour? (I assume that's what you mean by two south africas)


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    #113
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Ironicname wrote: »
    So you agree with "positive" discrimination?

    This isn't about positive discrimination.
    It is about optimising your opportunities. In a venture such as business development and entrepreneurship, networking and contacts are going to be a big part of developing it.

    Having members of the community in which you will be seeking to develop the contacts is going to give you a greater chance of success than not having them.

    It is good business sense.


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    #114
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So stripping away boardroom talk you are saying "Yes, I would tell him to hire blacks because the colour of their skin matches loads of people. And because blacks know what blacks want, we would earn more money"

    Blacks would hardly be racist and be more likely to avail of products or services from other blacks? :eek:


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    #115
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Tell me how wrote: »
    This isn't about positive discrimination.
    It is about optimising your opportunities. In a venture such as business development and entrepreneurship, networking and contacts are going to be a big part of developing it.

    Having members of the community in which you will be seeking to develop the contacts is going to give you a greater chance of success than not having them.

    It is good business sense.

    I would fathom a guess that billionaire Richard Branson knows a thing or two about business sense, no?


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    #116
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    How did you calculate that?

    Chance of 1st hire being white (out of black white option) is 50%
    Chance of 2nd hire (as well as first) being white is 25%.
    And so on.

    I was wrong though, it is 2 to the power of 8, not 7. Meaning a .39% that all 8 hires will be white.


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    #117
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So you would hire someone purely based on their skin colour? (I assume that's what you mean by two south africas)

    Two South Africa’s which were created unfortunately by a racial apartheid. The connection to skin color between the two worlds is inadvertent as it is unavoidable there seemingly. The end result however being that there are two of them, as there are two America’s and I would certainly not brand myself for one at the detriment of the other if my goal was to maximize profit.


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    #118
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    I would fathom a guess that billionaire Richard Branson knows a thing or two about business sense, no?

    Guess that's why he has apologised then. And shown pictures including members of the Black community engaging with him.


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    #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tell me how wrote: »
    This isn't about positive discrimination.
    It is about optimising your opportunities. In a venture such as business development and entrepreneurship, networking and contacts are going to be a big part of developing it.

    Having members of the community in which you will be seeking to develop the contacts is going to give you a greater chance of success than not having them.

    It is good business sense.

    To extrapolate that idea further, in a place where there are very few minorities, it would make more business sense to not hire any?


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    #120
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Guess that's why he has apologised then. And shown pictures including members of the Black community engaging with him.

    And didn’t engage in a PC principles debate just moved on to make some money.


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    #121
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,776 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    To extrapolate that idea further, in a place where there are very few minorities, it would make more business sense to not hire any?

    IMHO Depends where. Russia, China etc. absolutely there’s no need (and in some cases a too diverse hire can get you killed!) In the west we have these funny ideas about cultural diversity. The market responded to that.


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