Working Persons political Party ??

LuasSimon · 10-11-2019 10:27am #1

Looking at Labours conference from Mullingar on TV yesterday had me thinking back in the day Labour were the party that looked out for many working class people but lost that when when getting too pally with the bigger parties . That begs the question who can a middle of the road working person vote for ?
Fine Gael are only interested in South Dublin or if your super rich ,
Sinn Fein are only interested in Transgenders and LGBT matters
Both Fine Gael and Sinn Fein are PC gone mad and won’t hear a bad word about travellers despite travellers up to their eye balls in robbing and drugs .
This leaves Fianna Fáil who due to the other twos weakness could well become the biggest party after the next election . Fine Gael will win Dublin but with many in rural Ireland feeling abandoned by Fine Gaels Dublin Dublin agenda . Are Fianna Fáil the party though to look after workers rights , rise in the minimum wage or living wage etc ? .. could labour get back in this space and even that piece about the pension age of 67 would resonate with a lot of average workers , is there a possibility labour could pick up Sinn Fein seats in rural Ireland that Sinn Fein will lose .
The other smaller party’s are too concentrated in a constituency or two whilst independents are hardly a party looking at the broad working person agenda .

Wanderer78 · 10-11-2019 10:35am

We re getting to the stage of slim pickings, but I wouldn't overly worry about ff and fg, they ll be grand, they ll still clean up, nothings changing

Your Face · 10-11-2019 11:04am

There are none, maybe the OP could start one - it will only cost you 2 million.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 10-11-2019 11:12am

Being rural I don't get your assertion that FG is Dublin centric. They're no more so than any of the parties. It's reasonable that policy leans towards the greater areas of population. We have been no more abandoned, in rural Ireland, by FG than by any of the parties or coalitions over the past few decades - and that is not a complaint, just perspective.

I'm sure FG and FF will maintain much if their core votes and the status quo will tick along merrily.

Yamanoto · 10-11-2019 11:13am

At some point not so long ago, Labour decided that a free Palestine and your uncle Bernard identifying as a Eucalyptus tree was easily as important as the health, pay and working conditions of men and women in Ireland.

Thankfully, their downward trajectory towards complete oblivion will likely continue at the next general election.

lola85 · 10-11-2019 11:15am

FF the workers party!??

350,000 people lost their jobs overnight under FF only 10 years ago.

Ah boards never change.

10-11-2019 11:19am

FF are the party of short-termism and eventual disaster.

the rich usually manage to do ok or better from those disasters. the working person suffers or emigrates.

id agree that theres a space for an economically left/centre, fiscally responsible party thats clearly strong on corruption, efficiently enacts major infrastructural projects for the greater good and addresses the major strategic, social and economic issues of the day while not jumping on traveller, lgbtqia+, the more extreme climate warrior agenda, etc bandwagons.

this party should also be strong on crime, end the housing crisis and sort out health. lowering taxes is also a must. and keeping all our multinationals while boosting local business. and sorting out dublin and sending those jobs out west- without causing traffic or house prices out there to rise.

the tds of this party must be clever enough to do all this, but not so clever as to be too far ahead of the most stupid voters, so that they appeal to the common man.

this party must start from scratch and have no favours owed nor historical baggage- clean sweep doncherknow

the genius popular gods of this party must win a fair working majority outright, because to work with the current lot would be a complete betrayal of their manifesto.

theyll be happy to work for the average industrial wage too, id say

oh and they have to solve brexit and comply with all eu and other international agreements

jesus it ought to be handy enough.

10-11-2019 11:20am

Your Face wrote: »

There are none, maybe the OP could start one - it will only cost you 2 million.

But, think of all the millions you’d make!!

JohnnyFlash · 10-11-2019 11:28am

There’s a weird thing where the men (always men) who understand politics and society the least are the ones who seem to spend most of their time discussing it on the internet.

10-11-2019 1:46pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s a weird thing where the men (always men) who understand politics and society the least are the ones who seem to spend most of their time discussing it on the internet.

you do be about a lot yrself johnny!

Eric Cartman · 10-11-2019 1:58pm

There is no party in Ireland that genuinely represents the taxpayer.

Loafing Oaf · 10-11-2019 1:59pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

At some point not so long ago, Labour decided that a free Palestine and your uncle Bernard identifying as a Eucalyptus tree was easily as important as the health, pay and working conditions of men and women in Ireland.

Thankfully, their downward trajectory towards complete oblivion will likely continue at the next general election.

I see little reason to believe an excess of social liberalism has much to do with the abandonment of Labour by working class voters. After all. the big winner among left-wing parties at the 2016 election, Sinn Fein, is hardly less enthusiastic about that agenda. I would attribute their travails more to the reneging on promises they made before the 2011 election and their subsequent failure to atone properly for that.

Mad_maxx · 10-11-2019 2:02pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

At some point not so long ago, Labour decided that a free Palestine and your uncle Bernard identifying as a Eucalyptus tree was easily as important as the health, pay and working conditions of men and women in Ireland.

Thankfully, their downward trajectory towards complete oblivion will likely continue at the next general election.

and hopefully the same fate also awaits their ( even more WOKE ) little brother the Social Democrats

Mad_maxx · 10-11-2019 2:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no party in Ireland that genuinely represents the taxpayer.

and wont be until a vaguely conservative media outlet emerges

leo was savaged upon taking office for daring to say he wanted to represent " the people who get up early "

same thing happened a week ago or so when he highlighted the fact that georgians and albanian asylum applicants are overwhelmingly fraudelent

road_high · 10-11-2019 2:10pm

Probably none of them really. They’re all for massive state spending, endless welfare even Fine Gael who are bizarrely labelled as “right wing” which just illustrates how the left wing free money narrative dominates all.
Any party in government that think it’s ok to recklessly spend taxpayers money on Christmas bonuses for welfare recipients is most definitely not right wing

LuasSimon · 10-11-2019 2:14pm

Maleah Gifted Antelope wrote: »

Being rural I don't get your assertion that FG is Dublin centric. They're no more so than any of the parties. It's reasonable that policy leans towards the greater areas of population. We have been no more abandoned, in rural Ireland, by FG than by any of the parties or coalitions over the past few decades - and that is not a complaint, just perspective.

I'm sure FG and FF will maintain much if their core votes and the status quo will tick along merrily.

The big issue in rural Ireland was when Alan Shatter and Fine Gael closed most garda stations in rural Ireland giving travellers a free hand to rob whoever they want at their ease .
Closing post offices , allowing public transport deteriorate along with the roads in rural Ireland also doesn’t help . Creating so few jobs outside of Dublin is seen as a Fine Gael tactic to drive all the youth out of rural Ireland . I’m sure not all companies Fine Gael come across want to be based in Dublin .

Eric Cartman · 10-11-2019 2:21pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

and wont be until a vaguely conservative media outlet emerges

leo was savaged upon taking office for daring to say he wanted to represent " the people who get up early "

same thing happened a week ago or so when he highlighted the fact that georgians and albanian asylum applicants are overwhelmingly fraudelent

Will need a fresh media outlet to get people motivated, sure we saw it with peter casey, the first case of conservative politics weve seen in a long time and as a nation we lapped it up, i voted for him twice

Wanderer78 · 10-11-2019 2:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Will need a fresh media outlet to get people motivated, sure we saw it with peter casey, the first case of conservative politics weve seen in a long time and as a nation we lapped it up, i voted for him twice

conservative populism, as apposed to left populism

road_high · 10-11-2019 2:49pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Will need a fresh media outlet to get people motivated, sure we saw it with peter casey, the first case of conservative politics weve seen in a long time and as a nation we lapped it up, i voted for him twice

But he was an inarticulate buffoon tbh. What’s needed is pro work sensible politicians

Loafing Oaf · 10-11-2019 2:57pm

road_high wrote: »

Probably none of them really. They’re all for massive state spending

This is the key point. You, Cartman et all are very unlikely to get what you are looking for from the established parties, regardless of the occasional soundbite about 'people who get up early' from FF and FG. If you guys want "a party that represents the taxpayer," you, or someone, will have to set one up and get it elected to the Dail.

suicide_circus · 10-11-2019 2:57pm

i pay plenty of tax but i'd pay more if i thought it would be used effectively and my family would receive first world services. but i dont think there is any chance of that in ireland unfortunately.

Augme · 10-11-2019 2:59pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Will need a fresh media outlet to get people motivated, sure we saw it with peter casey, the first case of conservative politics weve seen in a long time and as a nation we lapped it up, i voted for him twice

We lapped it up by not electing him twice? I think we both have a different definition of lapping it up.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 10-11-2019 3:11pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

The big issue in rural Ireland was when Alan Shatter and Fine Gael closed most garda stations in rural Ireland giving travellers a free hand to rob whoever they want at their ease .
Closing post offices , allowing public transport deteriorate along with the roads in rural Ireland also doesn’t help . Creating so few jobs outside of Dublin is seen as a Fine Gael tactic to drive all the youth out of rural Ireland . I’m sure not all companies Fine Gael come across want to be based in Dublin .

Oh, where to begin?
Garda stations: We had one 4km from our home, for over forty years. Undermanned and never available in emergencies. Now the nearest station is 12km away and the response is better.
Post Offices: Ours closed because nobody was using it nor needed it.
Public Transport: That's a joke. We never had any until the recent rural bus scheme (poor and all as it is) started.
Creating jobs: Believe it or not we have it fine recently with employment in the nearest town on the up over the past few years and more coming in 2020. A far cry from the rampant unemployment we suffered for decades.
I wonder where your image of "rural Ireland" comes from.
I'll admit to being a fairly consistent FF voter down the years (voting since the general election of 1965) but I am inclined to vote FG next time round after seeing how this area has faired.

is_that_so · 10-11-2019 3:27pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Looking at Labours conference from Mullingar on TV yesterday had me thinking back in the day Labour were the party that looked out for many working class people but lost that when when getting too pally with the bigger parties . That begs the question who can a middle of the road working person vote for ?
Fine Gael are only interested in South Dublin or if your super rich ,
Sinn Fein are only interested in Transgenders and LGBT matters
Both Fine Gael and Sinn Fein are PC gone mad and won’t hear a bad word about travellers despite travellers up to their eye balls in robbing and drugs .
This leaves Fianna Fáil who due to the other twos weakness could well become the biggest party after the next election . Fine Gael will win Dublin but with many in rural Ireland feeling abandoned by Fine Gaels Dublin Dublin agenda . Are Fianna Fáil the party though to look after workers rights , rise in the minimum wage or living wage etc ? .. could labour get back in this space and even that piece about the pension age of 67 would resonate with a lot of average workers , is there a possibility labour could pick up Sinn Fein seats in rural Ireland that Sinn Fein will lose .
The other smaller party’s are too concentrated in a constituency or two whilst independents are hardly a party looking at the broad working person agenda .

A lot of us don't have parties in this sense anymore. The larger two are the most flexible in that they try to appeal to the widest possible electorate and usually succeed. Labour have tried to straddle the left of centre down the years while appearing "rad". They end up ludicrously overpromising and giving the impression that they just pay lip service to whatever it is they stand for. Anyone else is defined by political axis, almost all exclusively left or by a single issue - the Greens.
My suggestion is to review their manifestos to see how they go along with your beliefs. You should also take a look at your own TDs and prospective candidates. We can often put in people we like or approve of even if they don't quite match how we think and ballot papers are long anyway! And then there's this.

https://ireland.isidewith.com/

road_high · 10-11-2019 4:19pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i pay plenty of tax but i'd pay more if i thought it would be used effectively and my family would receive first world services. but i dont think there is any chance of that in ireland unfortunately.

I wouldn’t- I want what we pay already spent properly and not on more inflated pen pushers in the PS and welfare. First thing any of them
would do with a windfall is raise both to buy votes- FF always did this.
I’d much sooner see spending cut or stalled and spent in useful infrastructure that will add value and allow the economy generate more wealth organically

Danzy · 10-11-2019 4:22pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

At some point not so long ago, Labour decided that a free Palestine and your uncle Bernard identifying as a Eucalyptus tree was easily as important as the health, pay and working conditions of men and women in Ireland.

Thankfully, their downward trajectory towards complete oblivion will likely continue at the next general election.

Sadly SF are going the same path, maybe even more stridently so.

Eric Cartman · 10-11-2019 6:16pm

road_high wrote: »

But he was an inarticulate buffoon tbh. What’s needed is pro work sensible politicians

I agree, but even at that, the concept got him a lot of mileage. If somebody articulate and politically minded could operate under the same virtue then they would do very well.

Snow Garden · 10-11-2019 7:16pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no party in Ireland that genuinely represents the taxpayer.

I think you are right. The greedy bastards are all out for themselves. They have very short term vision too.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-11-2019 7:22pm

Define working person first?

Its hard to do so now.

Which is why its hard to form a party that caters to them.

There is a working class we just don't know them anymore.

gifted · 10-11-2019 7:25pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Define working person first?

Its hard to do so now.

Which is why its hard to form a party that caters to them.

There is a working class we just don't know them anymore.

We're the muppets who are paying for everything...

Wanderer78 · 10-11-2019 7:25pm

road_high wrote: »

I wouldn’t- I want what we pay already spent properly and not on more inflated pen pushers in the PS and welfare. First thing any of them
would do with a windfall is raise both to buy votes- FF always did this.
I’d much sooner see spending cut or stalled and spent in useful infrastructure that will add value and allow the economy generate more wealth organically

we done this recently, under austerity, and strangely enough, our critical public services got worse!

Working Persons political Party ??

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