The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com

Interesting - got an email from GQ UK seeing if I would be interested in taking out an advertorial in the physical magazine. I do think the ABTW advertorial was very effective, the Worn and Wound news feature (not advertorial) was even more impactful but the Facebook campaign wasn't something I could measure in how it turned out.

I guess once I have physical stock after the pre-orders/KS finishes it will be worth potentially taking out these advertorials - but it's always nice to be contacted by a publication you have actually heard of (I was getting offers from random US cable tv networks which show the ads at 2am in the morning - a key microbrand demographic I'm sure :pac: )

Lorddrakul wrote: »

Not looking for the rate card, but was the offer anywhere within reality for you marketing budget wise?

I'll need to get further details but their lowest rate (not sure how much coverage you get for that) is below ABTW and goes for hundreds (below 500 pounds anyway).

So definitely within reality (I spent multiples of that on Facebook ads) - it's always a question of which avenue has potential to gets the best returns (not just in sales - but raising publicity and awareness of the brand).

One of the worst I can promise you are many of the Instagram influencers who want a free watch to promote you on their instagram channel - apparently some of their followers are fake anyway so the rule of thumb is - "if you don't know of this influencer - it's probably not worth working with them"

Interesting developments on the Equinox.

My partner factory came back after putting through all the design elements and… wow it's costly in terms of even the unit cost - the R&D costs once we go to prototyping was something I had prepared for but, unit cost is expected to be almost 5 times greater than the Starlight. I'm fine with continually making minimal returns just to bring out some interesting pieces but I'm not sure potential buyers will see it as such.

So...here is the initial discussion - if there was something to be given up between:
1. Tritium (only two places make it - so we have to use Swiss made microtec)
2. Custom hands (I suspect the cost is coming from the fact that we'll probably need to make 3000 or so hands and only use 500)
3. Tungsten case and bracelet - moving to 316L stainless would save a little bit but not as much as 1 or 2.

What would people choose to give up?

I think keeping the price under 600 euro (VAT inclusive) would be very important to keep things affordable (for US/UK buyers export price is 487 euro) - in one sense I'm confident the watch as currently configured/designed would be "better" than say a Zelos diver (I have to presume they are making greater profit margins on their 700-800 dollar watches) but using a Chinese movement (it'll be an upgraded HZ5000A) instead of their Swiss movements - that will be a hard sell I think. Especially as Sólás as a brand is nowhere as well known as Zelos, Halios or the other microbrands.

I think it would still offering great value for what the watch is and possesses - but very cognisant that anything above $500 usd often enters another level in buyers' minds.

Maybe it would be better to compromise on features and keep the price below 500 euro (vat inclusive)/500 usd (vat exclusive).

I'm sure that's a first price sent out from the factory supplier too - and we will have negotiations over price but for now - it would be good if people (who buy microbrand divers) give a view on what feature is least important to them:
1. Tritium vs luminova
2. Generic hands vs custom hands
3. Tungsten vs stainless steel case (the stainless would weight a lot less too and we would have access to more generic good quality bracelets vs needing to make a custom-made tungsten bracelet too).

^ with the above hopefully people get a glimpse of why microbrands tend to go with Rolex/Seiko/Omega homages - premade hands and cases are much cheaper to make and make well too (the factories may have these cases to hand) - new things always cost more - but that was the whole point of doing the Sólás projects

Any input appreciated!

Lots of useful opinions provided - thanks everyone. I will be speaking to the partner today to see what can be done. For me - dropping the custom hands would be something that (if the savings are big enough) makes more sense than dropping tritium (and apparently the tungsten isn't adding much to unit cost once we have the moulds made).

As said from the beginning - I saw Sólás as a fun/useful way to push on watchmaking in the affordables/microbrand arena. Pushing things to €600 in a diver may not be keeping true to that goal - I'll have to see how to bring costs back down - the fancy stone/mineral dial options may be something that could be dropped - this would reduce overall height too (similar to the aventurine in the Starlight)

Fitz II wrote: »

Stupid question....you going display back on the diver Diyu? I am assuming not

There will be a display back actually - and the movement was to get a further upgrade (something similar to the salmon of knowledge edition's movement) - that golden movement was custom ordered for a different client of Hangzhou's but they can remake it for an increased fee.

If you search for Vostok amphibia display caseback you'll get an idea of how it will look like. With the Vostok caseback system it means thst you can easily swith to other casebacks too if people want a solid one instead.

The stone dials changing to enamel (paint) would make it much easier to offer different colours too.

Time to marry what is "ideal" to what is "possible" - one thing I'm keenly aware of is that if there is a massive jump in price - a lot of people who liked the Starlight and Sólás may well be priced out of the Equinox - and that's not what I want either - it is about making something affordable and worthwhile having as a timepiece.

If it was purely a commercial venture - now would be the time to reuse the Starlight moulds and start making different dialled versions re-using existing equipment - instead, going with a new model is about trying to give a kick to the diver segment too to bring out new useful designs.

But - when you see Steinhart/Christopher Ward etc. in that same 600ish zone - while I think their designs may be "samey" or "safe" - they have got great reputations for quality and are using Swiss movements so... It would be a hard sell for a well decorated Chinese movement watch to compete with Swiss ones (in the minds of consumers) when at the 3-400 arena it was competing merely against the Japanese movements primarily.

I was wondering what people had meant when they said the first submarine was invented by an Irishman (I had thought they were referring to the turtle used in the 1776 war) - Holland VI seems very cool too.

The Fenian aspect might be a little controversial - but hey he sold the plans to the Royal Navy too - would have said he was a good businessman but seems like from the Wiki he wasn't made rich from his invention.

I'll have a think - though right now with cost cutting being the priority adding any elements (say a swappable solid caseback with a Holland VI) may have to take a back seat...

Oh and difficult decision to make - but it seems that sadly tritium is gone - it unfortunately added hundreds onto production cost - a great feature - Wibbs in his post put it very well why I wanted a feature like that - but adding hundreds onto the cost isn't something I think people could understand/stomach. I imagine Ball gets a great discount for bulk orders from Microtec - but currently we can't afford that.

Idealism meets realism - I would have needed to strip almost all the design elements out to keep the tritium or switch to super luminova and keep my other design elements.

Cutting things out of a "perfect" design certainly hurts - but after our discussion we may have been able to almost half our unit cost. It was interesting - if we take out an extra edge from the bracelet we halved the cost of the bracelet.

Equally - it shows when people asks about "how come they couldn't add this little X Y Z finishing to an element" - it could be that the little bit of extra finishing adds another 100% of cost to the element - so balancing is needed to meet cost requirements.

I still hope to bring tritium to a future version of the Equinox - not this time when it adds hundreds onto unit cost though

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

If my memory is right ... April/May

That was the right date - but because of blued screws the date had been pushed to May/June.

I'm confident we should be on track for that. The movements won't be ready before Chinese New Year (feb 12th) and due to the 2 weeks holidays it's likely we'll get the movements to the assembler by mid-March - basically I hope to take receipt of the watches come start of May and begin attaching the straps/running last QC and so first watches should be sent out in May and finish by end of June.

That's the plan - and the blued screws/movement have eaten a little into my extraneous time allocation but I should still have some time for unforeseen circumstances.

It's also why I gave a realistic timeframe at the start (some people commented that it was much longer than others - but I just see it as delivering without delays... But of course need to still actually deliver it on time )

To be honest I would be assuming that the boardsies and super early bird/early bird people will overlap quite a bit. I also wouldn't think that there would be much delay once I get started in having all 200+ watches inspected/regulated/assembled and packed for shipping.

If there are people who are in a rush to get one sent out (for marriages, events and whatnot I would priortise them first - be they a boardsie or otherwise) - but the difference between "first" and "last" should be a week or so - I'm not expecting it to drag out during that week/2 weeks of frenetic activity.

A short video up passed on to me from Turas Leather about the process he goes into when making the horween (or in this video - the salmon) leather straps.

Put it this way - for something that's made in Ireland (I think we can all accept we're not the cheapest country to be living in) - and the amount of work that goes into the making of the straps (as well as the quality of materials used) the price being asked for (€41.50) really is good value - yeah that 50c is needed to cover some of the paypal fees

I accept that mass produced leather straps may be cheaper elsewhere - but for salmon leather and full grain calf leather - it's a very good strap price I would think.

All part of the large strap update we have for 1 February that I'm in the process of writing up now.

We're almost at 240 sales now - the latest of which was particularly touching as one gentleman is purchasing four to gift to his groomsmen for his upcoming wedding. With the pre-orders coming in it's great to hear about why people are getting a Starlight as with a Chinese micro-rotor movement and aventurine dial most people who get one have a particular reason for getting one rather than just "seems cool" or "a more affordable Rolex" (which are perfect reasons to get a watch too).

It means I am really looking forward to seeing the watches on the wrists of people who got them to celebrate events - hopefully people can share in the sólás and joy too.

CNY should be finishing up soon as well so I'll be checking in with Hangzhou to see what progress there has been and if we can get some photos of something (or when we can get the first photos of something).

If I had known that Hangzhou would send out a photo the day after I posted the March update I'd have waited an extra day

The first photo of the first ever blued screwed version of the HZ5000A - while the camerawork can be improved (Unkel was that you taking the shot?) I think in hand and on the wrist it will be spectacular (well spectacular may be an exaggeration - but very beautiful I think).

I might delay the March update 2 of 2 a week or so - by that time our boxes and packaging will be ready to show people too - we're very much on track for expected delivery date (otherwise I would never have agreed to make sales to people ordering the watch as wedding gifts etc.)

We're starting to get noticed

I'm currently speaking to a clasp manufacturer who has shown me his factory's custom clasps made for some *very* well known Swiss made brands - these are brands that sell in the price ranges of 800-9000 euro - (obviously the clasp cost for the more expensive brands are more expensive too) - but just goes to show how much of Swiss is potentially well made, high grade Chinese stuff. Quite impressed by the selection of clasps they can make - but will have to see what's on the more affordable side of things.

First "all-in" pricing has come in for the Equinox - going to physical prototyping with moulding costs will run to more than 10k straight off (which by the way would use up most of the profits from the Starlight). Future Starlight owners don't need to worry though I have provisioned for Starlight maintenance costs already for the expected/unexpected issues, those are separate from "the warchest" for Sólás model development - a financial risk for sure that the returns from the Starlight work are being plowed straight back into more watch development - but one more step towards the repeater endgoal.

A lot more marketing will be needed for the Equinox too - as MOQ has risen from 300 to 500 in order to get unit costs down (and moreso that factories would be interested in quoting for making custom tungsten cases/bracelets) - MOQ unit prices have definitely gone up because everything is custom made (but at least it hasn't doubled) - hence I couldn't afford tritium this time round.

The problem is that on this larger scale I will need to start charging VAT - and pricing will again be key - if EU customers are paying 599 euro (non-EU 486 euro i.e. less the 23% VAT) it is a bit of a jump from 329-369-399 for EU customers - perhaps then it needs to shift to mostly US directed sales (or selling to our UK neighbours) - though as an EU based microbrand perhaps EU residents will be glad that they know it's 599 without having to worry about import charges. Psychologically I think a €599 purchase is a lot more significant than a €369 one...and I'd need to get more backers than with the Starlight due to the higher MOQ. I would love to do a sub 500 i.e. 499 - but after taking away the 23% VAT that's 405 and KS's cut of 8.5% would be 370 - pretty much the price I was charging for the Starlight when unit costs were much lower.

For US backers it would be a potentially good deal in that they are getting quite a bit more custom design for around 100 euro more. Though of course at 599/486 pricing I am starting to compete against pretty established microbrands and even some value oriented Swiss/German brands - using a Chinese movement of all things(!) I'll have to run further numbers to see if something like 529-599 KS pricing is even possible (every euro dropped in price means I'd need to have an extra 10-20-30 backers before costs are covered - for example if it was priced at 529 - that would be 430 after I give over the VAT to Revenue... and KS takes away an extra 8.5-9% too - pretty quickly that brings it down to around the 399 that I'm current charging for Starlight pre-orders.

You can see why a lot of microbrands are operating from Hong Kong/Singapore etc. with their naturally export orientated situation and the fact that backers don't have to see the import/VAT charge directly at the back/buy screen - harder to get EU based microbrands off the ground I think when the sales tax is already baked in the price.

One other option would be to sell to microbrand stores to try and bring down the amount of funding that would be needed to be raised from crowdsourcing - profits will go to the stores - but on the flip side it raises the chance that I'd only need 100-200 people to commit rather than needing 300 etc.

Lots of things to think about for the Equinox ^ hopefully people find the honest, behind the scenes thoughts interesting - I believe in my end goal so I'm certainly willing to risk the Starlight funds in the Equinox model too but I guess it just requires some more careful spreadsheet calculations and analysis of permutations.

Oh and very interesting news was that apparently someone from a watch venture capital fund indicated they wanted to speak to me - I've made it clear that I'm interested in keeping prices as low as reasonable and bringing out new watch designs rather than getting returns on investments so that might have scared them off ha - will have to see if they are willing to take a risk on a microbrand that wants to do something as audacious as building a repeater and not just repeating a MVMT

It's all about the MOQ and economies of scale baby - it's why if you want a Rolex-like case or well finished mercedes hands then that costs pennies (or more realistically dollars) - but if you want a custom set of hands then that's a (roughly) $600 mould fee (per hand) and potentially, depending on complexity (heat blued custom shape?) MOQs ranging from 300/500/1000-3000.

3000 was what was needed to get the brushed/polished dual finishing (like you find on Seiko dauphine hands) - for a 300 MOQ you either end up with a lot of spare hands, or raise prices so this is covered by the price of each unit, or accept that currently you can't offer something that you'd love to offer - but perhaps in future iterations/revisions. With China quite often it's "all possible" - you just need to see if you can pay for it.

We're still looking at anglage on the Equinox's movement - it comes down to the pennies/dollars - is it better to have anglage (making 599 more palatable?) or target audience won't care two hoots about anglage and would prefer to just get a nicer wooden/pleather box - the beauty and terror of going with crowdfunding (rather than say something like watch forum projects is that you get to be dictator and decide :P - and then see if your design/marketing strategy works or doesn't).

^ btw - the current thinking is screw it with the fancy accoutrements - the watch is the thing that's going to be on your wrist permanently - leather rolls/"free" watch tools etc. are lovely but if it's at the expense of concentrating on delivering as much bang for the buck in the watch then I'd prefer the money to be spent on the watch... but that is to be counterbalanced by many people enjoying the unboxing moment too - damn economics and human psychology

Just as an example - I think one American store experimented with stopping sales and just offering averaged prices - after a year it was a complete failure as people wanted a perceived "bargain" - when rationally(?) it's better to just offer the same lower price all the time. But we're trained to regard the normal price as "bad" and a "discount" (DFS sofa "sales"?) as good... unless you're on a Rolex waiting list of course :pac:

This is it wrote: »

Kinda like paying for delivery.

€20 + €5 delivery, no way.
€26 + FREE DELIVERY!! Oh, yes please!

Nothing is free… well the free legal adivce centre is free ha (but I think they get government funding too - so partially tax payer funded).

I prefer to have things set out clearly i.e. separate shipping and goods but it does seem to work better to offer "free" shipping.

It's like when we postponed the first campaign and some people didn't think throwing more money at promotion/marketing is a good spend of money - I think we all rather the money is spent on the actual product but that was the biggest lesson for myself as a non-marketing guy. I can completely understand why Rolex, Patek etc spend around half of their budgets on marketing - for these kinds of non-essential purchases you need people to be aware and yeah we're all aware of Patek now - but that's not by magic (or even purely by craftsmanship - see Lange) - but lots of hardwork by the marketing department (in Sólás' case - marketing department = me )