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Advice on retrofit

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  • 26-11-2019 2:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭


    Bought a house 2 years ago. It was built in ~2005.
    Officially it has a B3 BER, but that is only in theory. It is a cold house. We would like to get it upgraded with insulation and potentially a new heating system (geothermal or heat pump).
    We need advice and I am just wondering what is the best way to go about it?

    The SEAI lists providers on their website (ones that were linked with their 2019 deep retrofit scheme). https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/deep-retrofit-grant/

    So is it best to ask a few of them to make a proposal of what is needed or should we employ an engineer first, decide what we want and then get quotes for that?

    If going with an engineer, I guess they all know about this kind of thing in general, but are there ones that specialize in this area, and if so, how would we find them.

    I am looking to do this as cost effectively as possible. On the other hand, we only have one shot at it, so we need to get it right first time!

    Thanks in advance for any advice.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    In line with charter, specific names by PM if you have recommendations. But part of the question above is more general, i.e., what do we need to be looking for in terms of the person who can advise on this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,233 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    CarPark2 wrote: »
    In line with charter, specific names by PM if you have recommendations. But part of the question above is more general, i.e., what do we need to be looking for in terms of the person who can advise on this?

    Location would be useful?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    Location would be useful?

    Fair point!
    North county wexford.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    CarPark2 wrote: »
    In line with charter, specific names by PM if you have recommendations. But part of the question above is more general, i.e., what do we need to be looking for in terms of the person who can advise on this?

    You need to find out why your house is cold in the first place. It rarely is solved by addressing insulation only. Also don't do anything about your heating system until you have addressed your heat loss.

    So you need a proper heat loss survey done first where the various heat loss issues will be demonstrated to you and leave you in no doubt of what/where to invest in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    You need to find out why your house is cold in the first place. It rarely is solved by addressing insulation only. Also don't do anything about your heating system until you have addressed your heat loss.

    So you need a proper heat loss survey done first where the various heat loss issues will be demonstrated to you and leave you in no doubt of what/where to invest in.

    What kind of company/engineer does that kind of work?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Google "heat loss survey" ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    PM sent


  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭ercork


    What's the current heating system?


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    Oil and radiators. Overall the heating is ok, it is just that most of the heat goes out through bad windows (Alu clad), a vaulted ceiling in the kitchen/dining room and a poorly insulated attic.
    In the long term, i have the idea that if we get other work done (e.g., a bit of room reconfiguration) that we would take the chance to look at a heat pump system, and/or solar power. But we need an overall plan for the house, work out the cost, and see what makes most sense in terms of sequencing (e.g., get a bigger mortgage and get all work done in one go, or do it in stages through our savings).
    So we need somebody who can help us identify the work to be done, talk ya through different options, cost it, prioritise it and sequence it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭monseiur


    A 2005 house is relatively new, what you require is not rocket science - you have already identified the main culprits i.e. bad widows & doors, vaulted ceilings, poor insulation it attic.
    why pay somebody to tell you what you more or less already know !
    Letting them borrow your watch to tell you the time:)
    Loads of builders at this, talk to them for advice recommendations

    1. Get 2 or 3 quotes form reputable window/door suppliers/ installers - include taking out existing windows etc. and fitting new ones including window boards

    2. Get quotes from insulation companies for pumping walls and insulating attic

    3. The tricky part is your vaulted ceilings, you have 2 choices - fit a standard ceiling with 300mm insulation or insulate existing if possible.

    Contact SAEI in relation to grants for above works...…forget solar panels heat pumps etc your existing oil system is one of the most economical to run and it's already paid for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    monseiur wrote: »
    Letting them borrow your watch to tell you the time:)

    :D That is the best quote i have heard in a long time!!
    monseiur wrote: »
    Loads of builders at this, talk to them for advice recommendations

    I guess my concern is that once you get into asking builders for advice, you get what they want to do, or are most experienced at doing, not necessarily what is best for your house.

    monseiur wrote: »

    1. Get 2 or 3 quotes form reputable window/door suppliers/ installers - include taking out existing windows etc. and fitting new ones including window boards

    This is one of my biggest queries. The windows are not that old. Only 15 years. They are double glazed alu-clad. I don't know if it was an issue that they were badly made, badly fitted or have deteriorated over time. But I can feel a draught coming through them, both where the openable parts join the frame, but also where different parts of the frame are connected together. We got a guy in last year to fix them. He changed some hinges, adjusted them etc., which made a difference, but hasn't resolved it. I am currently in the process or applying silicone to every joint which seems to have helped a bit also.
    It is ~ 3000 Sq ft house and there are loads of windows, so replacing them would be a huge outlay. I could really do with some expertise to let me know if they are fixable, or if they need to be replaced. But like i say, there are so many windows that it would be a huge investment.

    monseiur wrote: »
    2. Get quotes from insulation companies for pumping walls and insulating attic
    We got the house checked by an engineer before buying. He said that due to the particular construction of the house (timber frame, with small holes to the outside to allow the frame to breathe) that we would not be able to pump the walls. My guess is that we would need put insulation on the inside of the external walls. Again, i need advice on whether this is the best option and what thickness etc.

    monseiur wrote: »
    3. The tricky part is your vaulted ceilings, you have 2 choices - fit a standard ceiling with 300mm insulation or insulate existing if possible.

    Again, i would like some advice on which of these is the best option. Ideally, i guess we would prefer to retain the vaulted ceiling, but if it is not possible to insulate it properly, we would let it go and replace with a standard ceiling.

    monseiur wrote: »
    forget solar panels heat pumps etc your existing oil system is one of the most economical to run and it's already paid for.

    It is not a condensing oil boiler. I had the impression from lots of posts here that heat pumps are much more efficient than oil boilers (especially when they are not condensing oil boilers). Are you saying that isn't the case?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    monseiur wrote: »
    A 2005 house is relatively new, what you require is not rocket science - you have already identified the main culprits i.e. bad widows & doors, vaulted ceilings, poor insulation it attic.
    why pay somebody to tell you what you more or less already know !

    Amazing.

    He/She has not id'ed the main culprits.
    All the OP knows is that their house is poor at retaining heat. With all due respect they do not know why. They are just guessing. And they won't know without having the proper survey done first.
    Why am I saying this? I do these surveys for a living and in 99% of cases my clients are shocked by what they find out.
    The advice you gave in the rest of your post is exactly the type of stuff my clients have done (spending 10's of thousands in some cases) before they call me as a last resort because the "upgrade" works made minimal difference to their comfort levels or heating bills.


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭CarPark2


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Amazing.

    He/She has not id'ed the main culprits.
    All the OP knows is that their house is poor at retaining heat. With all due respect they do not know why. They are just guessing. And they won't know without having the proper survey done first.
    Why am I saying this? I do these surveys for a living and in 99% of cases my clients are shocked by what they find out.
    The advice you gave in the rest of your post is exactly the type of stuff my clients have done (spending 10's of thousands in some cases) before they call me as a last resort because the "upgrade" works made minimal difference to their comfort levels or heating bills.

    But what is next. After we have identified where the heat is escaping, what is the profession that will advise on what type of wall insulation will match the house, whether it is feasible to repair windows or if it makes more sense to replace them, the pros and cons (and costs and ROI) of different heating systems etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    CarPark2 wrote: »
    But what is next. After we have identified where the heat is escaping, what is the profession that will advise on what type of wall insulation will match the house, whether it is feasible to repair windows or if it makes more sense to replace them, the pros and cons (and costs and ROI) of different heating systems etc?

    Not being facetious but what is next will be determined by the survey results. Your surveyor should answer all your questions and then some such as what the impact of the suggested improvements will have on indoor air quality and strategies to mitigate degradation etc.

    Look, we going in circles. Your choice is to
    a. have an experienced expert, who is independent, advise you based on a proper survey, or
    b. have someone, with a vested interest in selling you something you may or may not need, advise you based on little to no tests or data.

    Your money, your choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,233 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    OP,
    take off the internal wall vent in one of the rooms, take a picture of what you see and post it here.
    .
    looking at the different contributions above, I would look at the two attachments, read the tea leaves and then decide which one has, might I say, a certain je ne sais quoi....

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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