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How not to cycle past a horse

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12357…11

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    #122
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Safety on the road is the primary consideration for this particular poster. Trying to be clever by taking a post out of context from an entirely separate thread, and making an ad homniem attack based on that same post, is both childish, incredibly dishonest and rather pathetic.

    Maybe you have a p....oh..
    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    But the reaction here to the entire video is similar to the person shrieking in the video after the collision at the end of the video; it's disproportionate.


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    #123
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    You both misunderstood. The point was that the person shrieked at being collided with, of which was a perfectly natural reaction of course, while some posters here are shrieking for the whole length of the video in terms of their responses. It's disproportionate.


    Okay, maybe this will help you understand. If that happened to one of my horses in particular, majority of them cyclists would be either hospitalised, or dead.


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    #124
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Why? We've all been in events on open roads and know not to be dicks, that goes without saying. What is usually said though is that road traffic laws apply and you must adhere to them. Only people to blame are those on the bikes, I find it bizarre that people are trying to put some on the organisers.

    For a start, if i paid ~€120 for a standard distance triathlon, the least I'd expect would be closed roads for the bike leg. (I wouldn't pay that much for a standard distance but thats not the point)

    I've read lots of comments on this on Facebook and Twitter and have seen competitors and locals passing comments on the notices put up warning of the event, the notice that locals got that the event was on. She captioned the video herself saying she didn't know the event was taking place and that the marshal she spoke to dismissed her. That all falls back on the organisers. Would guess she wouldn't have taken the horse out if she'd known there was a race on. If the organisers had inadequate signage and inadequate marshalling (for both competitors and other road users) then they need to take some of the blame.

    Again, not excusing the behaviour of the cyclists, doubt the first undertaking one came out of that without any bruises.


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    #125
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    I asked earlier but it probably got lost. Is a cyclist considered a “driver” in the stature book?

    I actually don't know.
    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    No, it wasn't. Stop being so dramatic.

    That's true.

    Indeed. And did you see any such request in the video, or was there even a suggestion of same?
    Not sure what this relates to.
    And likewise I hope you never have the power to enforce your crazy requirements.
    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Safety on the road is the primary consideration for this particular poster. Trying to be clever by taking a post out of context from an entirely separate thread, and making an ad homniem attack based on that same post, is both childish, incredibly dishonest and rather pathetic.

    That's fair enough. But the reaction here to the entire video is similar to the person shrieking in the video after the collision at the end of the video; it's disproportionate.
    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Did you see it asked for in the video? Was there even a suggestion of such a request?

    picard-facepalm2.jpg

    Sweet suffering....
    I would strongly suggest you spend some time around large animals. As evidenced by your comments in this thread you have absolutely no idea, not even the slightest clue how to act around them safely.


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    #126
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    You both misunderstood. The point was that the person shrieked at being collided with, of which was a perfectly natural reaction of course, while some posters here are shrieking for the whole length of the video in terms of their responses. It's disproportionate.
    Like a lot of other posters, I thought the first few riders were "the point" of the video. They silently shot past at very close range, and I fully expected the horse to panic/bolt/rear.



    I absolutely couldn't believe there was worse to come. Kamikaze doesn't begin to describe it.



    Also can't believe that all of those riders, if they weren't willing to slow down (what with being in A RACE and all) at least didn't have the wit or self-preservation instinct to pass as far as possible to the right on the road away from the horse and potential flying hooves.


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    #127
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Okay, may this will help you understand. If that happened to one of my horses in particular, majority of them cyclists would be either hospitalised, or dead.
    Sorry, should have been more clear. My point was that the reaction of some posters here to the whole video and all the cyclists, is similar to the person shrieking at the end of the video i.e. it's as if those posters are shrieking throughout the whole video! It's disproportionate. Was not for a second trying to imply that the person's shrieking in the video was disproportionate to the event. It was a horrible situation.


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    #128
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Okay, may this will help you understand. If that happened to one of my horses in particular, majority of them cyclists would be either hospitalised, or dead.

    Yep, those feckers can kill me with one swift kick. A horse is not something I'd be pleased with appearing in front of me in a race. Not sure I'd have known correct etiquette before seeing this video. Pretty sure I'd be smart enough to overtake as wide as I'd overtake it in the car but when in race mode...I dunno. :o


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    #129
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Like a lot of other posters, I thought the first few riders were "the point" of the video. They silently shot past at very close range, and I fully expected the horse to panic/bolt/rear.
    Yes, same. They were too close.


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    #130
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    sin_26 wrote: »
    How do you thinking if you generalise so much. Life is not black or white so as that situations. Fact is that real athletes are craving for competiton, either against time, themselfs or the others.

    Race- a COMPETITION between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course.

    Organisers are for some reason. Its clearly they fault.

    While I'm fully aware of boards frowning on grammar nazis and that this post may thus be taking a gamble, I actually can't make out what exactly you are trying to say with this post, it's that disjointed. So I'm not going to respond beyond highlighting that, but it's more for the lack of a clear point in the post to respond to, rather than the lack of a response outright.


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    #131
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Like a lot of other posters, I thought the first few riders were "the point" of the video. They silently shot past at very close range, and I fully expected the horse to panic/bolt/rear.

    Ha so did I, took a few cyclists before I realised it was a race she was in the middle of too.


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    #132
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Sorry, should have been more clear. My point was that the reaction of some posters here to the whole video and all the cyclists, is similar to the person shrieking at the end of the video i.e. it's as if those posters are shrieking throughout the whole video! It's disproportionate. Was not for a second trying to imply that the person's shrieking in the video was disproportionate to the event. It was a horrible situation.


    I wasn't literally shrieking, but given the situation, it was nerve wrecking even watching the first few riders pass. Again to emphasis, that horse did outstandingly well with the first few cyclists. All of them made dangerous passes and put everyone in danger. Those who are metaphorically shrieking during the entire video are the ones that know how dangerous a situation that entire video is.


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    #133
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Yep, those feckers can kill me with one swift kick. A horse is not something I'd be pleased with appearing in front of me in a race. Not sure I'd have known correct etiquette before seeing this video. Pretty sure I'd be smart enough to overtake as wide as I'd overtake it in the car but when in race mode...I dunno. :o

    Ah here, do people just divest themselves of all common sense and basic instincts when they're racing? Or am I just weird in that I manage to pay attention to what's going on around me in a race?

    In a TT like those guys were doing it's almost impossible not to see what's up ahead of you, you're not even in a bunch! Although I know and have seen triathletes have problem staying upright full stop, never mind stay upright and pay attention to the road in front of them.
    Aw poor triathletes. I feel a bit mean now. Just a bit :p:pac:


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    #134
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    nee wrote: »

    Sweet suffering....
    I would strongly suggest you spend some time around large animals. As evidenced by your comments in this thread you have absolutely no idea, not even the slightest clue how to act around them safely.
    Nah, no need. Always give more than enough space to road users when overtaking, expecially vulnerable or unpredictable ones such as cyclists and animals. Still does not stop me from thinking that asking permission to overtake a horse, without first being asked, is absurd. Slow down, give plenty of space, and don't pull back in until a safe distance ahead. Some of the cyclists in the video did that. Some didn't. And some behaved disgracefully.


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    #135
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Nah, no need. Always give more than enough space to road users when overtaking, expecially vulnerable or unpredictable ones such as cyclists and animals. Still does not stop me from thinking that asking permission to overtake a horse, without first being asked, is absurd. Slow down, give plenty of space, and don't pull back in until a safe distance ahead. Some of the cyclists in the video did that. Some didn't. And some behaved disgracefully.


    None of them did that! None of them performed a safe overtake. Not one. They were just lucky to have gotten away with it.


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    #136
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I wasn't literally shrieking, but given the situation, it was nerve wrecking even watching the first few riders pass. Again to emphasis, that horse did outstandingly well with the first few cyclists. All of them made dangerous passes and put everyone in danger. Those who are metaphorically shrieking during the entire video are the ones that know how dangerous a situation that entire video is.
    That's fair enough. And would tend to agree.


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    #137
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Nah, no need. Always give more than enough space to road users when overtaking, expecially vulnerable or unpredictable ones such as cyclists and animals. Still does not stop me from thinking that asking permission to overtake a horse, without first being asked, is absurd. Slow down, give plenty of space, and don't pull back in until a safe distance ahead. Some of the cyclists in the video did that. Some didn't. And some behaved disgracefully.

    Not a single one of the triathletes in that video gave enough space to the horse and rider. Not one. Every single one passed with far too much speed and too close.

    If you understood even the tiniest bit about large animals, or even got close to one, you would see the necessity of making yourself known and waiting until you're waved on to go by. You just haven't a clue. Not even the slightest clue. I've never come across someone with as little understanding of how to encounter large animals full stop if you think any of the triathlete's behaviour was ok in that video.

    I sincerely hope for your own safety and all riders, horses, cattle, sheep, farmers etc. that you learn this some day, and fast.


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    #138
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    None of them did that! None of them performed a safe overtake. Not one. They were just lucky to have gotten away with it.
    We can agree to disagree. Many of the riders toward the end of the video spun by on the right hand side of the road giving plenty of space to the horse. It's important to separate the inexcusable and excusable behaviour in the video.


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    #139
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    If a car passing a cycle can be asked to give 1.5, a cyclist can be expected to do the same for an animal. It's not rocket science.


    PS: Triathletes struggle to write their own names so maybe its lost cause there....


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    #140
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    I asked earlier but it probably got lost. Is a cyclist considered a “driver” in the stature book?
    In Ireland - yes

    This took place in the UK and I would need to revisit the rules there. I do think it's the same though, and hence the application of "wanton and furious driving" offence in the UK to cyclists (that law was originally introduced, quite ironically, for dealing with "drivers" of horse and carriages who acted dangerously)


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    #141
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,213 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    sin_26 wrote: »
    Once you try real racing you will understand how serious i am not to mention proper group ride. But yeah... It`s a horse in the middle of RACING. Blame racers for racing... not organiser...meh...

    Like here:
    https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/video-horrifying-headon-collision-at-finishing-line-leads-to-17-cyclists-being-hospitalised-34217158.html

    Stupid idiots havn`t seen other idiots aproaching. Blame racers <----logic?

    Ive done and still do Race and I've come across horses, cars etc.while racing. Unless the race in question is a closed road criterium type race, anyone who races and doesn't look ahead and anticipate potential hazards is a danger to themselves and others.


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    #142
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    We can agree to disagree. Many of the riders toward the end of the video spun by on the right hand side of the road giving plenty of space to the horse. It's important to separate the inexcusable and excusable behaviour in the video.


    It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It is not a matter of opinion. None of them performed a safe overtake. That is 100% definite fact.


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    #143
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Yep, those feckers can kill me with one swift kick. A horse is not something I'd be pleased with appearing in front of me in a race. Not sure I'd have known correct etiquette before seeing this video. Pretty sure I'd be smart enough to overtake as wide as I'd overtake it in the car but when in race mode...I dunno. :o
    There is a reason that most wars per motor had a cavalry as a core part and why police still use horses for crowd control.

    The animal if it took a fright could opt to fight and stamp a fallen cyclist rather than to bolt.


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    #144
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    nee wrote: »
    Not a single one of the triathletes in that video gave enough space to the horse and rider. Not one. Every single one passed with far too much speed and too close.

    If you understood even the tiniest bit about large animals, or even got close to one, you would see the necessity of making yourself known and waiting until you're waved on to go by. You just haven't a clue. Not even the slightest clue. I've never come across someone with as little understanding of how to encounter large animals full stop if you think any of the triathlete's behaviour was ok in that video.

    I sincerely hope for your own safety and all riders, horses, cattle, sheep, farmers etc. that you learn this some day, and fast.
    An irrational rant mixed with baseless personal attacks. Not going to discuss any further. Maybe direct your criticism toward those who deserve it like the cyclists involved in the collision in the video, instead of vilifying people for calling out some ridiculous claims made in this thread.


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    #145
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Glass fused light wrote: »
    There is a reason that most wars per motor had a cavalry as a core part and why police still use horses for crowd control.

    The animal if it took a fright could opt to fight and stamp a fallen cyclist rather than to bolt.

    Horses will always try to avoid a human on the ground, and I have never come across one that deliberately wanted to stamp a human (although some marginal incidents here, sometimes I'd swear they know exactly their hoof is going onto your toes when you're asking them to do something they don't want to do/go somewhere they don't want to go. I have had the broken bones! :pac: ). See what happens when jockey's fall off in a race and what oncoming horses do (plenty get trampled, but the horses will always try to avoid them if they can at all). Cavalry's they are driven into it, and trained for it, but it wouldn't be natural behaviour. Cavalry's always make me sad. I imagine they were also absolutely terrifying.

    Horses are used in policing units for crowd control and community policing, for visibility mainly, both that of the rider and crowds of the horse.


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    #146
    sin_26
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭sin_26


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Ive done and still do Race and I've come across horses, cars etc.while racing. Unless the race in question is a closed road criterium type race, anyone who races and doesn't look ahead and anticipate potential hazards is a danger to themselves and others.

    Correct but this is more prone to be happen in certain scenarios eg.races.


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    #147
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,953 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Does “driver” legally mean a cyclist? Genuine question as I don’t know.
    A bicycle is deemed to be a 'vehicle' under the road traffic regulations so I presume the person in control of a bicycle is deemed to be a 'driver'.

    A person in charge of animals is definitely defined as a 'driver' in the regulations (dogs and cats excepted).


    (2) For the purposes of such of these bye-laws as refer to a driver, a person leading or riding an animal (whether or not the animal is pulling a vehicle) shall be deemed to be a driver.


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    #148
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    ED E wrote: »
    If a car passing a cycle can be asked to give 1.5, a cyclist can be expected to do the same for an animal. It's not rocket science.
    Many of the cyclists in the video give more than 1.5 metres, which to be fair is still probably not enough for passing an animal, especially a horse.
    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It is not a matter of opinion. None of them performed a safe overtake. That is 100% definite fact.
    Just because you say something is so, does not make it so.


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    #149
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    sin_26 wrote: »
    Correct but this is more prone to be happen in certain scenarios eg.races.

    where you are doing what ..... something stellar like

    27mph


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    #150
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    We can agree to disagree. Many of the riders toward the end of the video spun by on the right hand side of the road giving plenty of space to the horse. It's important to separate the inexcusable and excusable behaviour in the video.

    The space is not the issue in a pack situation. After the nut job went up the left of the animal all the people to the right were in the most danger.
    If the rider has not managed to keep the animals head pulled to the side the it would have likely bolted forward and to the right taking out anything which got in the way ie the pack.


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    #151
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Many of the cyclists in the video give more than 1.5 metres, which to be fair is still probably not enough for passing an animal, especially a horse.
    Just because you say something is so, does not make it so.


    Many did? Did they? The only ones that even tried to go to the other side of the road were the ones trying to cycle past a spooked horse. All of them were way too fast.



    Anyone who knows about horses and large animals will tell you the same. Why won't you understand that? Why do you think you know better about how to act around horses than those who have been learning to act around horses for decades?


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