Dublin Bus UCD Anti Social Behaviour

AlekSmart · 12-03-2019 2:05pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I'd start looking for another job straight away. I experimented with the screen up all the way recently, on a late run on the 75, and hated it. It felt claustrophobic and I couldn't hear anyone properly. I think it creates an unfriendly and 'distant' atmosphere between the driver and passengers. If I wanted to speak to people through a screen, I'd get a job in a bank. The chance of taking a punch from a passenger is so low on the routes I drive that it feels completely unnecessary.

I actually agree with YDsA's opinion on "The Screen".

Modern Operating companies place a huge emphasis upon "Customer Focused" staff,and have incorporated allsorts of filters into their recruitment processes in an attempt to ensure that pleasant welcoming simle for every customer boarding.

However,such principles depend upon the Customer also buying fully into it,something which cannot be a universal "given" in this business.

My experience in Busdriving predates the "Assault Screen" and incorpoates some Two Person Operation,where it has to be said,some rough behaviour occurred also.

However,such behaviour was VERY rare,and would be a conversation point for months afterwards.

There was a far more personal interaction involved in a Conductor Scenario,as he/she was totally focused upon the Human Factor element of the deal,leaving the Driver to focus on the driving.

However,any Busdriver operating a vehicle in which a Security Screen is provided,would need to fully accquaint themselves with their employers Health & Safety Policy for Driving Staff,as it could place certain responsibilities on the Staff Member regarding the use of relevant PPE,as the screen would be described.

These is NO problem at all in not using any of these protections...UNTIL something happens,and that something,can happen without any warning at all.

The Dublin Bus issue was researched quite comprehensively back in 2008 (?)

https://arrow.dit.ie/aaschssldis/3/

The arrival of One Person Operation altered this delicate relationship for ever,and the situations we see today became more common. (NOT specific to Dublin by any means)

https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/research-publications/publications/antisocial-behaviour-on-buses/

https://planetradio.co.uk/hits-radio/manchester/news/tameside-anti-social-behaviour-bus/

https://www.tfgm.com/press-release/civil-injunctions

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15445823.bus-services-temporarily-stopped-to-some-newport-areas-after-anti-social-behaviour/

Those are only a pop-up selection of cases,with,I believe the Greater Manchester proposal of injuncting named individuals,being the one most suited to the UCD situation.

It does also offer the greater Student Body some opportunity to reflect upon what exactly they are prepared to do,in order to recover their reputation,which currently is dragged through the muck with regularity along the N11.

Doing nothing is always an option,however it has to be the silent one.

Xterminator · 14-03-2019 10:09am

Hmm. those saying the bus driver sitting behind a screen would be a defense to allow gangs on the bus are ignoring another key point.

DB have to provide a safe environment for their customers as well as there staff. The other passengers wont be safe behind a perspex screen and would also be at the mercy of the yobs. Its hard to envisage that some people would like to see the one person charged with their safety unable to leave their berth by design to come to a passengers aid?

The real solution is the enforcement of sanctions on the thugs using available cc tv footage etc. there will always be people who misbehave but if the serial offenders lost their UCD privileges, and their peers saw the law enforced, it would go a long way towards solving issues like this.

Stephen15 · 14-03-2019 7:49pm

Xterminator wrote: »

Hmm. those saying the bus driver sitting behind a screen would be a defense to allow gangs on the bus are ignoring another key point.

DB have to provide a safe environment for their customers as well as there staff. The other passengers wont be safe behind a perspex screen and would also be at the mercy of the yobs. Its hard to envisage that some people would like to see the one person charged with their safety unable to leave their berth by design to come to a passengers aid

But what you suggest a bus driver does to come to the aid of passengers? He/she is not a LEO and can do little more than switch off the engine, radio control to call the emmergency services and wait for the emmergency services to arrive or for the situation to come to a conclusion in the mean time ie. the culprits do a runner. There is little more the driver can do.

As for assault screens rightly or wrongly they are something which many urban bus operators have installed across the continent and further afield. Like or not it is in companies and passengers interests to provide a safe working environment for employees as assaults lead to drivers on leave due to injuries suffered in assaults, poor staff retention rates, difficulties attracting new entrants and ultimately a loss in service be that due to a failure to provide enough drivers or drivers refusing to work in at certain times in certain areas.

There is certainly many things that can and should be done to prevent these disturbances but buy and large this is something that is down to agencies such the DoJ, DoF and AGS rather than the NTA, DB and GAI to do.

One thing I would suggest which in my opinion would prevent some of this behaviour is security on certain services deemed high risk similar to the Luas it would provide extra protection for drivers and passengers. They could be deployed on services serving UCD after 21:30 and on the likes of the 13, 27, 40 and 77a.

wurzlitzer · 04-04-2019 2:13am

Sorry for dragging this up again
But for the last three nights I have been left stranded by the 39a service from UCD. I finish work usually around 11.00 am so I rely on the 39a to bring me to Baggot street bridge.

I have had to get alternative routes and I have had to walk further and as a female this means that the likelihood of me getting attacked is greater.

On Monday night two drivers sat on the dual carriageway chatting, and one of these buses was scheduled to pick up at our stop which is the stop opposite Belfield court just drove by and skipped the stop, the RTPI disappeared for this stop and the other driver was then ten minutes late before she picked us up. last night the bus drove past this stop, tonight the same driver at 11.15 with the same registration drove past this non-campus stop and the RTPI information disappeared.

When I did get the last bus last night, after two buses driving by the driver flew into town driving by some people flagging down buses.

health and safety is being used as an excuse for these drivers to skip a stop it’s a catch all term.

But what happens if someone gets killed trying to flag down these buses by stepping out into the road which I witnessed last night.

The student population is 32,000 and staff working there are also in high numbers. what about their health and safety

Why are drivers skipping the stops even two stops outside the campus.

What constitutes a gang more than two people at a stop? And drivers seem to be driving past one person at a stop also because it is not worth their while as they can pick and choose.

This discimmination against students has to stop. The last three nights I have waited at the Belfield court stop with students coming from the library.

DB has either run a functioning service or stop running a willy nilly service that is dictated by the mood and whims of drivers.

I held DB drivers in high esteem until recent times, but since watching two highly charged interactions between drivers and a students who simply complained about the poor service and lack of information, got snapped at.

One driver said I am just paid to drive the bus, yeah well what about the people who pay to use the bus they pay you! They expect a regular normal service.

Customer service is poor and also these students that are studying late trying to better themselves deserve better than this piss poor attitude. UCD students and staff contribute a huge proportion of the fares to those routes on the dual carriageway they deserve a better service and a better attitude.

Union representatives advising these drivers on how to conduct themselves regarding UCD have a lot to answer for informing them that they are not to stop if there is a “gang” this gives the driver free licence to decide what constitutes a gang

DB advertise that there’s not a service or provide one

I work late every night and I have no alternative but to use to this service it’s been bad of late but now it’s definitely the pits. It reminds me of the DB days in the nineties when you had no expectations but now my expectations are even below those expectations back then.

LastStop · 04-04-2019 5:19am

wurzlitzer wrote: »

But what happens if someone gets killed trying to flag down these buses by stepping out into the road which I witnessed last night.

.

It was student race day in Leopardstown yesterday, seen quite a few people in a bad state, also seen many private coaches hired to carry them.

If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.

The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with DB and trying to sort something out, not going online slinging mud.

Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.

You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,

wurzlitzer · 04-04-2019 9:39am

LastStop wrote: »

“If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.”

the person stepping onto the road was not a drunk but someone who out of frustration had stepped out to stop the bus skipping the stop

this is often seen whe drivers seem to be driving too fast towards a stop or appear to be driving past a stop

“The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with”

“Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.”

I and many other people have already skipped two stops and we are at the third stop down the road from the flyover and what’s happening now DB drivers are skipping this stop and there are no revellers at it just students who know about the drivers skipping stops coming from the library trying to get home.

I have used DB for over twenty years and I have lived in disadvantaged areas I have seen anti social behaviour but when there’s no service due to this there has been information given to the bus users.

What I am seeing now is a backlash now from the drivers who are just pissing local residents off students studying for their exams and people who work in UCD getting punished because some drivers advised by their union think this protest would be effective revenge against UCD students

Those who caused the original trouble are probably unaware it was probably students on residence who don’t need to travel Monday to Friday for work and college they can roll out of bed to attend college.

so ordinary jo soaps get punished

But there is a discimmination here against decent students who are law abiding and the people who work and live in the area

So you say we are collateral damage what exactly does that mean?

does it mean we have to put up with bullying behaviour from DB drivers and their unions?

“You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,”

I have been on buses that have had stones thrown at them. On those bus routes I never seen drivers skip stops for months on end afterwards just because there were more than two people standing at a bus stop.

Skipping the stops on campus fine but skipping a third one down from the flyover is not on.

The other night a student who had been studying ended up not getting the bus all the way out to Ongar

that student complained to the driver about the lack of information. the bus driver never apologised just could not care less if the student was stranded

And leaving on time does not help either these students and locals are waiting for up to forty minutes for a bus on a bus dual carriageway this is not a terminus is the back of beyond

So if you work during the day you have no choice but to study in the library

DB are actively alienating a huge student population who members of the public and are potentially causing unnecessary friction that will reside there for a long time all I hear at stops now is how the attitude of the drivers suck.

I personally have lost respect for the drivers on these routes

For the record I am not a student but I feel impelled to speak out that this is clear discrimination against the student population

I myself am someone who simply wants to get home safely and in reasonable time and not an hour more than usual.

DB unions should try and come up with a solution and be the bigger union instead of rubbing customers up the wrong way by ill advising Drivers how to handle the situation and maybe they will gain back the respect they have lost

AlekSmart · 04-04-2019 1:12pm

LastStop wrote: »

It was student race day in Leopardstown yesterday, seen quite a few people in a bad state, also seen many private coaches hired to carry them.

If Someone is stupid enough to step onto the road to try stop a bus that's a sign for a driver the person is, intoxicated, holds no regard for other peoples safety and will be trouble.... don't stop.

The student union tried to kick up a fuss on social media,
it got picked up by the regular media and the bus unions just kicked back. Just like idiots sending thoughts and prayers online instead of actually doing something. Student reps should be in contact with DB and trying to sort something out, not going online slinging mud.

Also, if everyone knows that buses won't stop at the flyover, let's just walk to the next stop..... well the next stop is clearly trouble too, skip it.

You are the collateral damage caught between two sides. Just like the thousands of good people in Tallaght and Ballybrack when some scrot throws a stone. unfortunately for you,

Ah....I was wondering what it was.

Student Race Day at Leopardstown,do you have any further information on the event,or the involvement of UCD itself in it ?

Sounds an interesting innovation in educational terms ?

Xterminator · 04-04-2019 1:50pm

if the poeple at the bus stop were intoxicated / reckless enough to be walking out into traffic then that would justify not stopping.

look you cannot accuse the drivers (the victims of bad behavior) of bullying. that is just blaming the victims.

The driver is responsible for the safety of himself/herself, the vehicle and the passengers on board. You can understand if there is a legitimate fear because if they did endanger the above by stopping they would be responsible.

does that suck for the well behaved majority. yes. is it inconvenient? yes.

the solution is for the perpetrators to be identified and sanctioned. Blaming the drivers, slagging them off on social media does not address the problem of antisocial behavior at that location.

AlekSmart · 04-04-2019 2:01pm

Xterminator wrote: »

if the poeple at the bus stop were intoxicated / reckless enough to be walking out into traffic then that would justify not stopping.

look you cannot accuse the drivers (the victims of bad behavior) of bullying. that is just blaming the victims.

The driver is responsible for the safety of himself/herself, the vehicle and the passengers on board. You can understand if there is a legitimate fear because if they did endanger the above by stopping they would be responsible.

does that suck for the well behaved majority. yes. is it inconvenient? yes.

The solution is for the perpetrators to be identified and sanctioned. Blaming the drivers, slagging them off on social media does not address the problem of antisocial behavior at that location.

Agree 100%.

This codology has been ongoing now for decades,however,where in times past it was totally Alcohol fuelled,in todays recreational environment there is a far wider range of stimulants in use.

Handling drunken youths could be said to be "easy",but from recent observations in and around Belfield,we are in the midst of a far greater problem.

However,as I say,given that the "Problem ?......what Problem ? approach has worked so well for Official Ireland,I cannot see any native Administrator (or Garda) being prepared to risk their career by calling out a youthful,well connected though stupid,young thug.

It will subside again in a couple of weeks,and everybody will forget about it.

punisher5112 · 04-04-2019 3:15pm

Only thing that will change this is policing and actual inspectors out doing their jobs.

Zero tolerance on anti social behaviour and get at it.

I'm sick of the abuse I've gotten while doing my job and doing it correctly too.

stephenjmcd · 04-04-2019 4:14pm

I was on the 155 into town last Friday night. We passed used on the dual carriageway just after 10pm. It's simple they just won't stop there at night.

I know the argument is they should stop there but in fairness if you badly need a bus there is another stop less than a 5 minute walk from the flyover stop and they will stop there. It's pretty simple, don't risk the main ucd stop just walk down the road.

The 155 driver stopped there and picked up a few people that you could tell were coming from UCD

p_haugh · 04-04-2019 4:35pm

Also due to the Student Raceday, but a 155 went to stop at the stop outside DCU heading into town but pulled away last second as there was loads of drunk students heading into town.
The 4 that was behind it did stop however.

Stephen15 · 04-04-2019 11:02pm

I was driving down the N11 tonight at 10.30pm saw a 155 heading up the flyover. Is that rare for buses at that hour?

LastStop · 05-04-2019 5:03am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ah....I was wondering what it was.

Student Race Day at Leopardstown,do you have any further information on the event,or the involvement of UCD itself in it ?

Sounds an interesting innovation in educational terms ?

It was sponsored by Spin 103 radio station, aimed at all 3rd level colleges, €20 entry. Afaik it's been running for a few years.

Heard a couple of people were shown the door for dealing Coke. Must be a chemistry student.

Also someone mentioned about inspectors getting out and doing their job, Aren't DB trying to get rid of as many inspectors as possible right now. Voluntary redundancy package in the pipeline and dozens of retirees not replaced.

p_haugh · 10-04-2019 11:56pm

Just got off the last 46a to DL there.
When I was passing UCD, I saw both the last 145 and 46a going towards town, and both went under the flyover, completely skipping the stop outside UCD.
Very bad form as I'm sure there's still some students looking to get those buses home.

punisher5112 · 11-04-2019 12:21am

p_haugh wrote: »

Just got off the last 46a to DL there.
When I was passing UCD, I saw both the last 145 and 46a going towards town, and both went under the flyover, completely skipping the stop outside UCD.
Very bad form as I'm sure there's still some students looking to get those buses home.

This has been done for years.

39a doesn't even go into campus after 10pm.

What's bad form is the disgusting behaviour which is allowed to carry on year after year after year...

If you feel so bad go buy a bus and bring all those angels into town all boozed up....

Charles Babbage · 11-04-2019 12:46am

It is wholly unacceptable to have buses shown on the route planner that do not operate as advertised. If they do not want to operate such buses then change the timetable.
It is wholly unacceptable for law abiding persons to be discriminated against by a public service.

StreetLight · 11-04-2019 10:34am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

It is wholly unacceptable to have buses shown on the route planner that do not operate as advertised. If they do not want to operate such buses then change the timetable.
It is wholly unacceptable for law abiding persons to be discriminated against by a public service.

It is wholly unacceptable for law-abiding citizens already on the bus to be subjected to the zoological antics caused by some students who can't hold their drink.

Charles Babbage · 11-04-2019 10:44am

StreetLight wrote: »

It is wholly unacceptable for law-abiding citizens already on the bus to be subjected to the zoological antics caused by some students who can't hold their drink.

I couldn't agree more and dealing with this is is solution, not having a phantom bus service.

If all these stops were removed from the timetable and RTPI that would be honest and would lead to something being done. Instead this pretence continues.

As I said earlier in the thread, they need to break the cycle here. This may not be the ideal time to do it, but next September they need to do it.

Time Magazine · 11-04-2019 1:24pm

StreetLight wrote: »

It is wholly unacceptable for law-abiding citizens already on the bus to be subjected to the zoological antics caused by some students who can't hold their drink.

There are a few bad eggs in, say, Tallaght. Should everyone in Tallaght be prevented from getting the bus because of them?

Why is UCD different? The majority of students never cause a problem.

Tickityboo · 11-04-2019 1:32pm

Time Magazine wrote: »

Why is UCD different? The majority of students never cause a problem.

That is why the stop is served the majority of the time for the majority of the students.

Stephen15 · 11-04-2019 1:49pm

Time Magazine wrote: »

There are a few bad eggs in, say, Tallaght. Should everyone in Tallaght be prevented from getting the bus because of them?

Why is UCD different? The majority of students never cause a problem.

And buses are regularly pulled from parts of Tallaght at certain times of the night aswell due to scrotes.

Xterminator · 12-04-2019 12:41pm

I think your correct.

the buses in tallaght are regularly pulled at night due to anti social behavior. ballymun buses have also had to do this form time to time.

i wonder why there isn't a 5 page long thread complaining about the people of tallaght having to walk far further than 2 bus stops to get a bus service, and blaming the drivers for not stopping as opposed to the troublemakers?:rolleyes:

trellheim · 12-04-2019 12:55pm

Is there a written rule to 46a drivers to miss out UCD ? For what hours and what days ? Is it only inbound or is it outbound as well

punisher5112 · 12-04-2019 1:31pm

trellheim wrote: »

Is there a written rule to 46a drivers to miss out UCD ? For what hours and what days ? Is it only inbound or is it outbound as well

As has been discussed..,. It is inbound only and Mon to Thurs inclusive....

After 22.00 at night.

This is no unwritten rule and union backed and it's up to driver to follow or not....

Stephen15 · 12-04-2019 4:20pm

I fully understand why the drivers don't want to stop there but there should be agreed procedure with the unions it shouldn't simply down to driver discreation. If there are issues the driver should report it to control who would order all buses not to serve the stop for the rest of the night just like if there's stone throwing somewhere in Tallaght, Ballyfermot or Clondalkin. It should be the case that all buses serve the flyover or no buses serve the flyover on any given night.

trellheim · 12-04-2019 4:48pm

It is inbound only and Mon to Thurs inclusive....

After 22.00 at night.

This is no unwritten rule and union backed and it's up to driver to follow or not....

SO if it is policy, why are the stops showing on RTPI ?

Why does the timetable https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/46a-21/ show UCD as a stop ? Why is there no notation showing "does not serve UCD inbound after 2200"

is it actually "in writing" but not actually "in writing"

punisher5112 · 12-04-2019 5:14pm

trellheim wrote: »

SO if it is policy, why are the stops showing on RTPI ?

Why does the timetable https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/46a-21/ show UCD as a stop ? Why is there no notation showing "does not serve UCD inbound after 2200"

is it actually "in writing" but not actually "in writing"

The company seem happy to continue on with blinkers on but then when things happen the driver is brought up to explain....

Not worth it

Charles Babbage · 13-04-2019 1:24am

Tickityboo wrote: »

That is why the stop is served the majority of the time for the majority of the students.

The stop should be served all the time, for the majority of students who are regular passengers on the bus, and other members of the public.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2019 9:51am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The stop should be served all the time, for the majority of students who are regular passengers on the bus, and other members of the public.

You wouldn't say that if you are a normal well behaved passenger as the bus is taken over with screaming/shrieking, something like singing and banging the floors and bottles everywhere....

Stephen15 · 13-04-2019 10:04am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The stop should be served all the time, for the majority of students who are regular passengers on the bus, and other members of the public.

So they should have to put staff and passenger safety at risk because some of the people aren't causing trouble when they can just go to next stop or the one previous. So by your logic should DB also send buses into Jobstown after buses have already been stoned that night or does it only apply to UCD.

Del2005 · 13-04-2019 11:27am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I couldn't agree more and dealing with this is is solution, not having a phantom bus service.

If all these stops were removed from the timetable and RTPI that would be honest and would lead to something being done. Instead this pretence continues.

As I said earlier in the thread, they need to break the cycle here. This may not be the ideal time to do it, but next September they need to do it.

It's up to UCD to police their campus not Dublin Bus.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I fully understand why the drivers don't want to stop there but there should be agreed procedure with the unions it shouldn't simply down to driver discreation. If there are issues the driver should report it to control who would order all buses not to serve the stop for the rest of the night just like if there's stone throwing somewhere in Tallaght, Ballyfermot or Clondalkin. It should be the case that all buses serve the flyover or no buses serve the flyover on any given night.

So you want a driver or passenger to be assaulted or injured before they pull services? No company can force an employee into a potentially dangerous situation and if UCD don't police their campus then the employees of another company are correct to not enter it. No one should be doing their job in fear.

UCD could resolve the issue very quickly by enforcing current laws and pulling student IDs from anti social students and removing non students from campus. But instead they are happy for Dublin Bus to get flack

LastStop · 13-04-2019 11:56am

punisher5112 wrote: »

As has been discussed..,. It is inbound only and Mon to Thurs inclusive....

After 22.00 at night.

This is no unwritten rule and union backed and it's up to driver to follow or not....

After the student union attacked the drivers in the media it was changed by unions.

Inbound 7days a week after 22:00.... do not serve ucd due to persistent anti social behaviour.

Stephen15 · 13-04-2019 12:44pm

Del2005 wrote: »

So you want a driver or passenger to be assaulted or injured before they pull services? No company can force an employee into a potentially dangerous situation and if UCD don't police their campus then the employees of another company are correct to not enter it. No one should be doing their job in fear.

UCD could resolve the issue very quickly by enforcing current laws and pulling student IDs from anti social students and removing non students from campus. But instead they are happy for Dublin Bus to get flack

But what that's what DB have been doing for years in parts of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Ballyfermot, Ballymun and Finglas only pulling services out of the area after there has been an attack on a bus. There are ways that it could be dealt with better for example sending out an inspector in a car to report back to the garage if there are any large groups of people drinking at bus stops and if there is tell drivers to skip the flyover.

I agree that UCD should be doing more and I would 100% agree with your suggestion of taking student IDs off students involved in anti social behaviour. A fair whack of the trouble is happening at stops off campus though aswell especially with the 46a, 145 and 155 with the 39a not going into the campus after 10 I believe.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2019 1:12pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

But what that's what DB have been doing for years in parts of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Ballyfermot, Ballymun and Finglas only pulling services out of the area after there has been an attack on a bus. There are ways that it could be dealt with better for example sending out an inspector in a car to report back to the garage if there are any large groups of people drinking at bus stops and if there is tell drivers to skip the flyover.

I agree that UCD should be doing more and I would 100% agree with your suggestion of taking student IDs off students involved in anti social behaviour. A fair whack of the trouble is happening at stops off campus though aswell especially with the 46a, 145 and 155 with the 39a not going into the campus after 10 I believe.

Your having a laugh chief inspector would call in everything is fine and continue on....

There is no respect for drivers and I can honestly say this and have many bring an occasion where I can back this up.

Drivers and decent passengers don't need to be subjected to these sorts.

Stephen15 · 13-04-2019 1:18pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Your having a laugh chief inspector would call in everything is fine and continue on....

There is no respect for drivers and I can honestly say this and have many bring an occasion where I can back this up.

Drivers and decent passengers don't need to be subjected to these sorts.

I get that. Sounds like there is a problem there with the inspectors needs to be sorted out. I thought most inspectors were ex drivers has the power gone to their head you'd think if they were ex drivers they'd understand what most would be going through. I think the NTA for all their worth should have boots on the ground monitoring these rather than just people sitting up in offices with little knowledge of the actual operational environment DB and GAI are facing.

StreetLight · 13-04-2019 2:15pm

There has never been more of a disconnect between drivers and inspectors/management as exists currently.

The result is that there are now people in Dublin Bus telling drivers how to drive a bus, without ever having driven one themselves.

Charles Babbage · 13-04-2019 2:34pm

Del2005 wrote: »

So you want a driver or passenger to be assaulted or injured before they pull services? No company can force an employee into a potentially dangerous situation and if UCD don't police their campus then the employees of another company are correct to not enter it. No one should be doing their job in fear.

I have no wish for drivers to be doing their job in fear, I want things dealt with. But I am not clear on what you expect UCD to do, are they stoning the bus on campus? More likely they are entering the bus and causing disruption on the public road.

UCD could resolve the issue very quickly by enforcing current laws and pulling student IDs from anti social students and removing non students from campus. But instead they are happy for Dublin Bus to get flack

I'm not sure non students on campus are the issue. Dublin Bus do not remove these people from the bus or identify and charge them. This is not down to the drivers. As I posted above, this route passes a depot and Garda station with a few stops, for all their bravado the students will calm down a lot if any action is taken against them.

Del2005 · 13-04-2019 3:22pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

But what that's what DB have been doing for years in parts of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Ballyfermot, Ballymun and Finglas only pulling services out of the area after there has been an attack on a bus. There are ways that it could be dealt with better for example sending out an inspector in a car to report back to the garage if there are any large groups of people drinking at bus stops and if there is tell drivers to skip the flyover.

I agree that UCD should be doing more and I would 100% agree with your suggestion of taking student IDs off students involved in anti social behaviour. A fair whack of the trouble is happening at stops off campus though aswell especially with the 46a, 145 and 155 with the 39a not going into the campus after 10 I believe.

There's a big difference between pulling services from whole areas which have trouble compared to pulling services from 1 business that's causing trouble. We have antisocial problems in several areas but 1 university that can't control it's students is easier to skip than half of Dublin. Maybe if they figure out how to solve the antisocial issues in UCD they could expand it and then we wouldn't have to curtail any services.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I have no wish for drivers to be doing their job in fear, I want things dealt with. But I am not clear on what you expect UCD to do, are they stoning the bus on campus? More likely they are entering the bus and causing disruption on the public road.

Well then you can understand why the drivers are skipping stops where there's a potential for trouble.

It's UCD students that are the problem so UCD has to solve the problem.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I'm not sure non students on campus are the issue. Dublin Bus do not remove these people from the bus or identify and charge them. This is not down to the drivers. As I posted above, this route passes a depot and Garda station with a few stops, for all their bravado the students will calm down a lot if any action is taken against them.

It was more for dealing with issues on the campus. Remove student ID's from students and remove non students who are causing problems, which is what they are supposed to do according to their own rules.

Stephen15 · 13-04-2019 3:38pm

Del2005 wrote: »

There's a big difference between pulling services from whole areas which have trouble compared to pulling services from 1 business that's causing trouble. We have antisocial problems in several areas but 1 university that can't control it's students is easier to skip than half of Dublin. Maybe if they figure out how to solve the antisocial issues in UCD they could expand it and then we wouldn't have to curtail any services.

But it's not just UCD they're skipping it's the stops outside UCD along the N11 and on the flyover that they're skipping aswell it's not just UCD students that are suffering people live in the area around UCD and need to use the bus sometimes after 10 o'clock at night not everyone using the bus there is a student.

As I say I don't have a problem with DB drivers not wanting to stop there but this should be communicated to intending passengers similar to the way if buses are pulled from Jobstown DB notify passengers and they're not skipping half of Dublin it's usually estates after incidence of stone throwing are you aware of this?

Charles Babbage · 13-04-2019 4:07pm

Del2005 wrote: »

It's UCD students that are the problem so UCD has to solve the problem.

If problems in Jobstown are caused by tenants of South Dublin council is it then up to them to solve the problem there?

It was more for dealing with issues on the campus. Remove student ID's from students and remove non students who are causing problems, which is what they are supposed to do according to their own rules.

I absolutely agree that UCD should take strong action for anything that occurs on campus. However, Dublin Bus and the Gardai need to also coordinate to get rid of this menace.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2019 5:59pm

It's mad the amount think it's perfectly fine to cause a nuisance for example and when getting off even though I've said nothing to them about it but then be abused by them getting off from name calling, threating behaviour, throw a bottle or can etc etc.....

These tools need a quick lesson in how to grow up and treat others with respect but unfortunately the way things are going where anyone and everyone is offended by been told how to behave or they'll sue etc etc....

Stephen15 · 13-04-2019 6:34pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's mad the amount think it's perfectly fine to cause a nuisance for example and when getting off even though I've said nothing to them about it but then be abused by them getting off from name calling, threating behaviour, throw a bottle or can etc etc.....

These tools need a quick lesson in how to grow up and treat others with respect but unfortunately the way things are going where anyone and everyone is offended by been told how to behave or they'll sue etc etc....

I think the main cause of the problem is that the students are remaining on campus either going to the on campus bar or the residences to pre drink. If they were going home and then meeting up in town or going to each others houses then incidents would be more spontaneous.

Realistically the Gardai should be doing more they should be travelling on board buses. Saw two Guards get on the DART at Blackrock last night and that was probably the first time I've seen Guards on public transport on regular patrol not responding to an incident. I've also suggested that DB should provide security on board buses similar to on the Luas and the Dart and deploy in them in areas where trouble is expected such as on buses serving UCD for staff and passenger protection.

thomasj · 23-01-2020 11:06pm

Sorry if I shouldn't have dragged up this oldish thread.

Just heard an announcement over the intercom while on the 39A , that they were pulling buses out of Belfield tonight because of antisocial behaviour.

punisher5112 · 24-01-2020 12:23am

thomasj wrote: »

Sorry if I shouldn't have dragged up this oldish thread.

Just heard an announcement over the intercom while on the 39A , that they were pulling buses out of Belfield tonight because of antisocial behaviour.

Yes, 46A,145 and 155 are bypassing.

Charles Babbage · 24-01-2020 2:02am

Thursday on the first week of term. This was when Dublin Bus, UCD and the Gardai should have made an effort to read the riot act and make an example of a few troublemakers and set the tone for 2020. My best guess is that they made no such effort.

punisher5112 · 24-01-2020 2:19am

As a driver we are not backed up by management.

No matter what is said they believe anyone but their own staff.

thomasj · 24-01-2020 2:23am

Sad really.

It's one of the main responsibilities of employers to ensure that their staff can go about their business without being at risk and if they're at risk, to take whatever action is necessary.

LastStop · 24-01-2020 6:52am

punisher5112 wrote: »

As a driver we are not backed up by management.

No matter what is said they believe anyone but their own staff.

There are protocols in place for anti social behaviour not just in Ucd but also for most of the troublespots in Dublin.

If management didn't believe drivers there wouldn't have been a meeting with the company, Gardai, unions, Ucd staff and student unions at the start of the year.

Db also ran a workshop for the students in the university at the start of the year highlighting the impact anti social behaviour has.

I'd be the first one to call DB management out but I don't agree with you that on this the drivers are not believed or backed up, can more be done? yes.

AlekSmart · 25-01-2020 11:06am

LastStop wrote: »

There are protocols in place for anti social behaviour not just in Ucd but also for most of the troublespots in Dublin.

If management didn't believe drivers there wouldn't have been a meeting with the company, Gardai, unions, Ucd staff and student unions at the start of the year.

Db also ran a workshop for the students in the university at the start of the year highlighting the impact anti social behaviour has.

I'd be the first one to call DB management out but I don't agree with you that on this the drivers are not believed or backed up, can more be done? yes.

Absolutely true.

The situation at UCD is a long running saga,going back decades and merely reflects or concentrates a far deeper,destructive malaise within Irish Youth culture.

Dublin Bus management,both Local and Central,has engaged repeatedly,and at length with the MANY other "stakeholders" ( to use modern administrative non-speak) in this sorry production,all to little avail.

Dublin Bus,or ANY Bus Company has an obligation to Employee Health & Safety in relation to the workplace,hence the Security Screen,Radio,Staff Cars and Liason with College Authorities and Gardai...all of which have been worked to death.

What is immediately apparent to Bus Drivers of any Operator serving this location is the almost total refusal of ANY of the other "Authorities" to take ownership of the physical locations where the issues are arising ie: Bus Stops.

The National Transport Authority burst blood vessels to get Bus Stop provision within their remit,significant efforts were deployed to wrestle the responsibility from Local Authorities/Gardai/Operators,yet the same Authority (whatever that term means in this context) now appears to be totally mute to what is occurring on THEIR facilities.

The Garda Authorities had a very strategically located facility within easy reach of the Belfield hot-spot,which they felt sufficiently confident to demote to a part-time status,closing now (perhaps also strategically) each evening at 1900.

It should also be noted that the perpetrators of this knuckle-dragging savagery,are all headed into the City Centre area,usually to a well known collection of premises catering to the "Student" market,almost all of which deploy VERY strong in-your face physical security measures before letting these cannibals in to their premises...there's a strong hint of how to approach this particular issue here.....for those who wish to see it.

This behavioural abberation is for sure a problem for UCD itself,and indeed the broader 3rd Level "industry",however so focused are the College Authorities on the "Fees" issue that all else appears to be disregarded,which to degree (;) !) is reflected in the collapse of Irish 3rd Level ratings on the Worldwide comparison level.

These young people remain supremely confident of their place in Society,I see no realization of services of any sort being Provided for them,but a constant expectation that they are entitled to them and actually demand them,at whatever level they require.

With Garda resources now stretched by the really serious issues throughout the City,few appear to have even considered that the UCD behaviour can be seen as a first-step on a ladder eventually leading to full-on Gangsterism,with all that that brings...and yes,it is THAT serious.

There really is NO alternative to identifying the alpha-male ringleaders,and many Busdrivers can readily identify the same clowns each week,then remove them from the scene using whatever force is required,and make that PUBLIC,for all to see and in particular ensure that the rest of the bus using public get to put their point to the Alpha one...which,of itself,might just have a more immediate effect than some workshops or whispered low-key conversations about good manners on public transport ??

Bring back the stocks ??

Dublin Bus UCD Anti Social Behaviour

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