Battery swapping is back!

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really, there's increasing numbers of electrics on the road with a public charging network not fit for purpose, so the more People with electrics the greater the chance of having to Queue.

But that still assumes that most people are not charging at home/work/destination.
I simply dont believe that is the case.

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been to a few hotels with designated charging stations (don't have an EV myself, but have seen quite a few). Maybe a third of the ones I've been in over the past couple of years, though always the big ones.

People don't like change. They also don't like inconvenience, whether that is likely to be real or imagined inconvenience. At some stage we'll probably all be driving EVs or at least some form of hybrid. But until then, there is just no competing with the ubiquitous nature of petrol stations.

Somebody in this thread earlier said "what if you can't find a garage to fill up" as if we're still stuck in the 80s. Garages are every-fecking-where and even the most basic of phones (and a high percentage of cars themselves) will tell you where the nearest one is and how to get there. Charging stations can be located also, I'm sure, but the fact that you might have to wait a few hours hours, or it might be broken is a dealbreaker in such a scenario.

There was a huge thread on here not so long ago about ICEs or local EVs hogging the chargepoints. You can't complain about that while at the same time telling everyone there's no issues with getting a charge. Until it is easy and straightforward as pulling into a Circle K garage when you feel like it, people won't bother.

The solution is simple: Make the filling stations install charge points. Whether its by tax breaks or carbon credits or simply by financial penalties for those who don't comply, just introduce legislation that all garages have to have an EV charger as well as a petrol/diesel pump. I honestly can't believe it hasn't been done by this stage.

Garages are far, far less prevalent than they were in the 80's and 90's!

How many places can you fill up in Dublin city centre these days?

GreeBo wrote: »

The stats clearly show the distance the majority of people travel per year.

Do they? I've only seen averages (means?).

There might be a large cohort of second cars and cars owned by old people that drag the average down.

My Model 3 has done 15k km in six months despite lockdown!

Deleted User wrote: »

, just introduce legislation that all garages have to have an EV charger as well as a petrol/diesel pump. I honestly can't believe it hasn't been done by this stage.

The use case, visit time and requirements for a charging station are very different from a petrol car. Assuming a petrol station has 8 spots of refuelling and 4 non refuelling spots, the average time to refuel pay and leave is say 8 minutes, while for an EV charger is 30 minutes, so same site would need 24 EV spots to cater for equivalent ICE. Each charger typically costs 20,000 to 60,000 and that's assuming it will be reliable and not have annual maintenance needs. The cost to fill an EV is say 10 euro per charger per half hour if fully occupied.

As an EV user I don't want a single charger I may queue at, may be broken, etc. I would prefer any 50kW charger to be at least 2 at the same site, the site to have ample parking, and decent food with seating. I would like them located at motorway services or in towns if no motorway. I would rather they are not at a petrol station as they are direct competition and petrol stations have an incentive to ensure the chargers are blocked or broken as it competes with their existing business model. Many petrol station chains are owned by oil companies, and they don't have the room or local electrical infrastructure to handle 2 EV chargers let alone 10 or 20 chargers needed for long distance sites. Many local sites are doomed as people will charge at home or use public chargers not at petrol stations. As a user we need charging hubs on major routes, and mini hubs in towns near food and shops. Ionity and Tesla already know this and have picked their sites accordingly.

zg3409 wrote: »

The use case, visit time and requirements for a charging station are very different from a petrol car. Assuming a petrol station has 8 spots of refuelling and 4 non refuelling spots, the average time to refuel pay and leave is say 8 minutes, while for an EV charger is 30 minutes, so same site would need 24 EV spots to cater for equivalent ICE. Each charger typically costs 20,000 to 60,000 and that's assuming it will be reliable and not have annual maintenance needs. The cost to fill an EV is say 10 euro per charger per half hour if fully occupied.

As an EV user I don't want a single charger I may queue at, may be broken, etc. I would prefer any 50kW charger to be at least 2 at the same site, the site to have ample parking, and decent food with seating. I would like them located at motorway services or in towns if no motorway. I would rather they are not at a petrol station as they are direct competition and petrol stations have an incentive to ensure the chargers are blocked or broken as it competes with their existing business model. Many petrol station chains are owned by oil companies, and they don't have the room or local electrical infrastructure to handle 2 EV chargers let alone 10 or 20 chargers needed for long distance sites. Many local sites are doomed as people will charge at home or use public chargers not at petrol stations. As a user we need charging hubs on major routes, and mini hubs in towns near food and shops. Ionity and Tesla already know this and have picked their sites accordingly.

The other side of this is that people are far more likely to spend more in your shop if they are there for 20+ mins.

Yesterday I had a 360km return trip to do, so I plugged the car in the night before. Problem is that I forgot to set the charge limit to 100% and arrived out ready to set off to find the car had only 80% charge, showing 380km on the gom.

The e-Niro's gom is fairly accurate so I set off and decided to take it handy on the way up. 115kph gps (119 on the speedo) on the motorway and speed limit elsewhere. I got home with 40km left. I could have gone a bit harder if I had known there were a few kms spare.

No charge or battery swap required.

Now I wouldn't do that every day, but it's a good indicator of what a long range car can do... even if you make a balls of charging it.

Kramer wrote: »

You averaged 12.7kWh/100km - that wouldn't be representative of most EVs, in fairness though, especially if including motorway driving.

We simply need more 150kW chargers, with at least 2 per site.

...........or battery swapping...........:cool:.

I'd have been disappointed if that was my average doing the same trip, taking it handy, in my old Ioniq. But I would definitely have needed a charge stop.

...or a battery swap

There are many inconveniences owning a bev, particularly in a one vehicle family.
There are 'work-arounds' for all of these as can be read in previous posts.

A couple of other aspects not mentioned that I can recall ...... the new methods of accessing info and the use of smart phones and even the use of a central display and all that digital nonsense.
We have a large number of drivers who are not digital gurus and would not have a clue how to operate a smart phone or some app to find a charging point or any of the other 'nice' things you can do with them.

I wonder also about disabled drivers ........ will they have to exit their vehicle and do the necessary (say from a wheelchair) and get back in and wait the best part of an hour for a charge as opposed to pulling into their local service station with attendant service only when they have a near empty petrol/diesel tank?

If BEVs are truly to be our future then it will have to bring all citizens with it, not just the majority of healthy people who might be taking a rare long journey.

Speaking of which, my long journeys are about 150 miles each way, mostly to lunch meetings, and immediately home afterwards. I have no intention of ever stopping anywhere during either to or from.
I am not going to plug into some charger and just abandon the car there until a meeting finishes,
I really do not care if I only attend one meeting a month, the present situation with BEVs and all the inconveniences associated with owning one, means I would not own one.
The situation will have to improve drastically for me to buy a BEV, much as I might like to own one.

Oh yes ....... the present cost of BEVs is far too much for a lot (most?) of us.

OK, well aside from the fact that no car makes driving 480km to have lunch sane, the best of the current EVs would have you stop for about 15 minutes to charge on that journey.

You'd probably need to stop for 5 minutes to fill up with diesel, so the penalty reduces to 10 minutes.

And the cost would be about €20, or about half the price of diesel.

Maybe your time is worth €120/hour, but it seems unlikely if you're spending four hours driving to have lunch.

unkel wrote: »

1951? You are showing your age there alright. I don't think I've seen a service station with attendant service in about 25 years

But we get it, EVs are not for you. Maybe when they have the 1000 mile range you require?

There is one a few miles from me.
Yes it requires the customer to attract attention ....... I have observed it.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not during a 300 mile round trip.

You must be thinking of BEVs limitations!

No.

Sure, on a single isolated trip you may spend less time stopped if you happen to start with a full tank, but you're discounting the previous refuelling stop. Most EV drivers do not spend any time waiting to charge because the car charges while they are asleep. It's only on long journeys that a stop is required, and in those cases a break is usually required too.

My EV regularly does 1000km a week at motorway speed with no charging stops at all. The diesel it replaced spent probably 10 minutes a week hanging around petrol stations doing the same pattern of journeys.